Double Blind 2 - the poems and critiques only

On #7 The Persistence of Memory

-----double post----

I'm having a bunch of trouble with Lit this morning.
 
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On #7 The Persistence of Memory

Arrggh --- "pt." is every bit as opaque as "Δ". And the same goes for the other changes made.

I disagree - it is clear to me in the context, but maybe that's my familiarity with hospitals. That said, when I read the poem I find myself sounding out "patient" so the abbreviation works only from a visual aspect - I'm not sure much would be lost by writing out the word.

On the other hand, given the quote on surrealism, the abbreviation does add some to that mood.

I'll be back to add more - I like the revisions, light as they are, and the additions.

There are however two instances of grammar faux-pas that are really bugging me. One is silly (sorry!):

"..insertion in the rectum
of two brown eyeballs..."

Yes, it really does read to me like the prescription could be for two eyeballs to be inserted into the rectum, at which I just dissolve into giggles. Did I mention how sorry I am for giggling? Self :caning:

Two, the fifth stanza shows what lack of punctuation can do:

"....on the desk that smiles..."

I suggest that rearranging or adding some commas would rid us of the smiling desk and let Mrs. Wu's contented, sweet smile come through loud and clear.

Unless the poet left these two instances on purposes to add to the surrealist mood. I would simply suggest probably not - it's not that kind of a poem.
 
#7 part II

I like this poem a lot, just as I like surrealism, whether by Dali, Miro or Magritte. The poem makes you work somewhat more than most, but I really do think the context makes it pretty clear, at least to me, how the images fit to put together Maria's story and the absurdity of this really sad situation.

As I mentioned earlier, I like the new stanza, it adds context to the good Dr. Wu, but I would rearrange it a bit:

I read by the desk with a photo of
Mrs. Wu smiling as if she knew
life in the U.S. was better because
there are pencils in pen and pencil sets


Earlier, my brain wants to see:

that brought pt. down to JFK


And I suggest a different arrangement for this last stanza that clears up both the eyeballs in rectum issue and the earlier question of what the patient is taking: bottle, label, or contents. Note the added commas.

as a mute Dr. Wu hands me a bottle,
whose label states any pt. can take
pills by mouth or insertion in the rectum,
I note two brown eyeballs that roll towards the door

This may not serve the author, but hey ... you know what to do if you don't like. I would love to see the next iteration.
 
The Persistence of Memory

Surrealism is not a movement. It is a latent state of mind perceivable through the powers of dream and nightmare.
― Salvador Dalí


María habla Español
I translate to English for Dr. Wu
who speaks into a dictaphone:
“Twitching and shrugging of pt.'s shoulders”

and as I start to speak some more,
two brown eyeballs fall to the floor
while Dr. Wu, in Mandarin thought,
isn't quite sure what he saw.

“Ay, mi Madre!” Tears flow like agua
drenching the carpet, “Por favor!"
pt. cries whose diagnosis
after a week in the suicide ward

was a midnight red-eye Delta flight
that brought pt. down at JFK
only to find Ramón had left
a letter without a forward address

I read by a photo of Mrs. Wu
on the desk that smiles as if she knew
life in the U.S. was better because
there are pencils in pen and pencil sets

as a mute Dr. Wu hands me a bottle
whose label I note any pt. can take
by mouth or insertion in the rectum
of two brown eyeballs that roll towards the door

I want to pronounce pt. as PEE-TEE. Like the triangle symbol, it adds nothing to the poem. Just say patient.

How or why Stanza 4 is the diagnosis mentioned in Stanza 3 is still beyond me.

The final line still doesn't even make sense as a part of Stanza 6.

And when you put two brown balls in such close proximity with rectum, I can't help but imagine appetizers for dung beetles rolling around on the floor.
 
I preferred the triangle, the resonance of so many variables, the correlation between delta and physical change, the way a teiangle is seen as an everyday object and the relevance toward doctor and patient when the doctor has seen so many like her he becomes numb to the feelings of humanity,

Here stick these up your arse and all will be fine whilst dismissing the patient with simply his eyes.
However I also get that making it patient makes it more realistic and less associative.

I dont know if the poet wanted it to read you can stick the eyeballs up your arse, it didnt make me giggle but run a secondary chain of thought process regarding where the narrator would like to stick the seeming uncaring doctors brown fucking eye-balls :D

The suggestions of mers would clean it up nicely but is the poet playing with double intention or am I just making shit up, lol who knows.
 
I want to pronounce pt. as PEE-TEE. Like the triangle symbol, it adds nothing to the poem. Just say patient.

I wonder if it's being used as a way to show that the patient is just another body to the doctor. With the use of the delta symbol previously, and now the use of pt., it gives me a sense of impatience from Dr. Wu, that he doesn't want to be bothered, just prescribe something and be done.



Yes, it really does read to me like the prescription could be for two eyeballs to be inserted into the rectum, at which I just dissolve into giggles.

I read it the same way. :D
 
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#4 Absent as My Heart (original and revised) - Lyricalli

Absent as My Heart

Will you take my words,
listen as they flow
to flood this silence
once filled with rumbles
of your laughter?

Allow me,
before this space is empty,
to give them up to you
the way I gave myself:
recklessly, when consequence
ceased to matter.

Carry them all away when you go;
there's no use for them here
in this lonely room, and
I need them gone.

Absent as you.




Will you take my words,
listen as they flow to flood
this silence
once filled with the rumble
of your laughter?

Allow me,
before this space is empty,
to give them up to you
the way I gave my heart:
recklessly, as though
consequence doesn't matter.

Carry it all away when you go;
there's no use for it here
in this lonely room, and I want
it gone. As absent as you,
and what had been my heart.
 
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#6 Untitled -> Haloperidol Memories - Todski28

Haloperidol Memories

Tall branches sway and rustle in gentle breezes
blue skies and sunlight skim amidst the pine sap scent
lights flash as we run leap
and dash
between echoes of our own laughter

pine cone grenades lobbed
we dive for cover
behind aged trunks
escape toward the small stream

ankle deep we prospect for
fool's gold
search for marron in the mud
kicking up sprays of ice cold water
rainbows arc in the air
happiness has taken flight
and we are dancing

my brother and I
strip naked on the river bank
in the midst of pine needles
floating on the surface
small fish dart through the shadows
creating ripples
devouring mosquitoes

we splash and laugh
the forest booms it back
infected with our joy

but...
that was a long time ago
I look through the hospital window
as you wear holes in the floor
the lone pine tree
looms in full view
making a mockery
of the forest in your mind

tears fall and
the rainbows have died



tall branches sway in the
whispered swish
of a gentle breeze
blue skies and sunlight
skim amidst the scent
of pine sap
blinking lights flash as we run
leap and dash
between the echoes of
our own laughter

pine cone grenades
lobbed as we dive for cover
behind aged trunks
head toward the small stream

ankle deep we prospect for
fool's gold
search for marron in the mud
splashing the ice cold water
rainbows arc in the air
as if happiness has taken flight
and we are dancing

my brother and I
strip naked on the river bank
in the midst of pine needles
floating on the surface
small fish dart through the shadows
creating ripples
as they devour mosquitoes

we splash and laugh
the forest booms it back
infected with our joy

but,
that was a long time ago
I look through the hospital window
as you wear holes in the floor
the lone pine tree that sits
in full view
making a mockery
of the forest in your mind

My tears fall
and rainbows have die
 
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On #4 Absent as My Heart

Absent as My Heart

Will you take my words,
listen as they flow
to flood this silence
once filled with rumbles
of your laughter?

Allow me,
before this space is empty,
to give them up to you
the way I gave myself:
recklessly, when consequence
ceased to matter.

Carry them all away when you go;
there's no use for them here
in this lonely room, and
I need them gone.

Absent as you.

As Mags, said, not much was wrong with this one to begin with. Nevertheless, IMHO, even the small changes have made it tighter, and it packs a strong punch.

I think it's a perfect revision, retaining the sad, sweet reflective tone but packing a strong dose of defiance. I love it.
 
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On #6 Haloperidol Memories

Haloperidol Memories

Tall branches sway and rustle in gentle breezes
blue skies and sunlight skim amidst the pine sap scent
lights flash as we run leap
and dash
between echoes of our own laughter

pine cone grenades lobbed
we dive for cover
behind aged trunks
escape toward the small stream

ankle deep we prospect for
fool's gold
search for marron in the mud
kicking up sprays of ice cold water
rainbows arc in the air
happiness has taken flight
and we are dancing

my brother and I
strip naked on the river bank
in the midst of pine needles
floating on the surface
small fish dart through the shadows
creating ripples
devouring mosquitoes

we splash and laugh
the forest booms it back
infected with our joy

but...
that was a long time ago
I look through the hospital window
as you wear holes in the floor
the lone pine tree
looms in full view
making a mockery
of the forest in your mind

tears fall and
the rainbows have died

The light touch-ups on this one made a very good, heartfelt poem even better. Lovely, and that next-to-last stanza packs a hard punch.

But... I still hear:

but that was long ago...
I look through the hospital window
as you wear holes in the floor
the lone pine tree
looms in full view
making a mockery
of the forest in your mind

tears fall and
the rainbows died

A beautiful, melancholy poem that steers well clear of maudlin.

One other thing - I don't like the title. I think 'memories' is perfect, but Haloperidol is too jarring, too cold. I can see why, but I suggest it is too aggressive, or off-putting, for the poem. This is just off the cuff, but something like Clouds of Memory or Clouds of Memories, which plays on the clouded memories implied. Even better would be something playing off the forest: Arbor Memories? I'll quit while I'm ahead.
 
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On #1 You Asked

You Asked (revised)

Once, when younger,
I answered a question of yours
without thinking it through,

I tried to be honest, but only gave you
what I thought was enough to answer
the question--
"Yes, Theresa, I think you're right that
I'm attracted to you."
"What should we do now, Pat?"
"I think I'd like to ask you for a kiss."

If only we had let a kiss be the end of it.

I know I was clueless as to how I had been
acting towards you;
flirty? maybe
attentive? to be sure
But considering the size of our circle, I don't think
I would have acted without you opening
things up for me

But, once things were underway, you
slammed the door on me and
left me to flounder about, not knowing or
caring about the hurt you had done to
me,
yourself,
Carmine and the kids,
pretty much everyone we ran with

And, have the nerve to wonder why I
had answered you, so long ago,
just think,
Theresa,
you're smarter than that


I have to agree with Mags and AH on this one.

I like that the poet shed the rigors of the form, which straight-jacketed this one. But - to wantonly mix me some metafers - I think the poet kinda threw the baby out with the bath water.

There are some lines in the first version that would work very well here, for example:

Once, when we were not so old,
I answered how much I wanted you,
without thinking it through,


I think the original and the revised versions are two extremes that need to meet in some poetic middle.
 
One other thing - I don't like the title. I think 'memories' is perfect, but Haloperidol is too jarring, too cold. I can see why, but I suggest it is too aggressive, or off-putting, for the poem. This is just off the cuff, but something like Clouds of Memory or Clouds of Memories, which plays on the clouded memories implied. Even better would be something playing off the forest: Arbor Memories? I'll quit while I'm ahead.

Arbor Daze
 
#2 De-composing -> Decomposing (original and revised) - HoneyAdored

Decomposing

such beauty l see
beyond surface scuffs
character ingrained in withering wood
intricate latticework missing a piece or two
adorns this not so grand piano, which
concertos once did grace

melody, lost to the passage of time
no longer capable of keeping up
with the metronome’s beat
shrivelled ochre parchment
off which music would dance
stills, an unfinished symphony

an elegy expires in dust choked air
as swansong drifts amongst the motes
tone death, a note diminishes
as woodworm feast on Chopin and firewood
weep, for the music has died



Such beauty l see
beyond the surface scuffs
character still defined though withered looks
Intricate lattice work missing a piece or two
adorn this no longer grand piano where
once ebony and ivory lay next to each other in perfect harmony
neglect has made them lose their melody
somewhere along their passage of time
tone dampened
tuneless
no longer capable of keeping up with the beat
of the metronome
shrivelled parchment
off which music once would leap
notes long faded into the silence of the night
woodworm feasted on Chopin and firewood
the day the music died
 
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Decomposing

such beauty l see
beyond surface scuffs
character ingrained in withering wood
intricate latticework missing a piece or two
adorns this not so grand piano, which
concertos once did grace

melody, lost to the passage of time
no longer capable of keeping up
with the metronome’s beat
shrivelled ochre parchment
off which music would dance
stills, an unfinished symphony

an elegy expires in dust choked air
as swansong drifts amongst the motes
tone death, a note diminishes
as woodworm feast on Chopin and firewood
weep, for the music has died

The metro gnomes feel that notes would play better off motes.
 
As Mags, said, not much was wrong with this one to begin with. Nevertheless, IMHO, even the small changes have made it tighter, and it packs a strong punch.

I think it's a perfect revision, retaining the sad, sweet reflective tone but packing a strong dose of defiance. I love it.

Agreed. When I read the revision, I muttered to myself, wow, this poet really knows how to revise.
 
On #3 The Turning of Mary Walker

Many of the revisions make the story clearer, while others don't. But in all they make the story clear enough (together with the discussion following the original post) that I at least can express some opinions. So much the worse for the poet. I feel that I may have gone a bit overboard, imposed too much on the poem. But take what fits well, trash the rest.

The original is italicized.

In some places, the revisions slightly blunted the rawness of the poem, and I am trying to get back to the original fist in the face feel (except in one case, where I think a bit of restraint may be necessary).


The Turning of Mary Walker (revised)

>I don't see any problem with the title, nor did I with the original. (But then again, I'm no King aficionado.)

The sunken belly revelation
now a mockery amok within the flock
Minister Ryan
condescending fuck!
reaching into his robe
retrieving his mighty righteous
condemnation


>Two things here: depending on the woman, she may show at 4-5 months (although bystanders may take this as putting on weight), which in some places is (was?) still early enough for a legal abortion, even without life-threatening circumstances.

That's the response to Mags' comment.

More importantly, the stanza as it stands still reads to me like Minister Ryan is about to expose himself. If that's what was intended, great. However, I suggest that no impact will be lost by deleting one line that sends the mind down that road:

The sunken belly revelation
now a mockery amok within the flock
Minister Ryan
condescending fuck!
retrieving his mighty righteous
condemnation

~~~~~

In the holiest hardcore sanctuary
salvation is afforded to rapists
Grit my teeth and clench my fists
Another's sinister actions
are my consequence


For some reason 'hardcore' just doesn't sit well for me in this stanza. I'm not sure what to suggest - self-righteous? sanctimonious? neither are quite right but the words I'm reaching for aren't responding to the call.

I might even suggest:

In the (this?) holier-than-thou sanctuary

Since it arises here, I'll mention that I still am not 100% sure whether the minister is the father of the aborted child or not. I tend towards that assumption, given the latter stanza (Being fucked over again...)

~~~~~

As people across our great nation
sing in praise of Jesus and rejoice
I remain choker chained
larynx strained without a voice
pained from my most difficult choice


For some reason, "choker chained" and "larynx strained" together seem too much. I am thinking about the following tweaks:

As people across our great nation
sing in praise of Jesus and rejoice
I remain choker chained
without a voice
pained from my most difficult choice


I think this emphasizes the 'without a voice' even more, which I think is the point. I also hear 'choke-chained' rather than 'choker chained' - to me, it emphasizes the feeling of the effective lack of choice.

~~~~~

Leper in houses of the holier than thou
I am stained
the blackened sheep of the family
who only mourn for one little lamb dead
silenced in my refusal to carry instead
released back into the wild


Since I used holier-than-thou earlier - so can't use it again - but sanctimonious would work well here in its place.

I think a comma is absolutely necessary after carry, otherwise it is unclear whether 'instead' refers to something before or after itself (I think it refers to the phrase that comes after). I added a couple more commas as well. So:

Leper in the houses of the sanctimonious
I am stained
the blackened sheep of the family
who only mourn for one little lamb, dead,
silenced in my refusal to carry, instead
released back into the wild.

~~~~

Being fucked over once again
because I spoiled your child
Don't you even dare
consider sparing me your rod
Ryan, this time really make it burn


No suggestions for this one, except to reiterate a bit of my confusion. Should I read it as: Ryan, you fucked me, don't you even consider leaving me? If so, I am not certain that I could put myself in her shoes - or I would be torn, ambivalent about wanting the weasel back.

If this is not the correct reading, then I am confused about the last three lines. Taken together with the next stanza... no, just not sure.

~~~~~

I solemnly swear on the Bible
as I sit in this Witness chair standing trial
to only believe in myself from here on out
turn my back on all of you lousy shits
your god of rapists and hypocrites
while inside I rage and shout


I am hearing a 'do' before 'solemnly', because it seemed that expression from swearings in sounded right here - emphasized the situation even more.

The 'lousy shits' are implied - the phrase is just too jarring here. Instead, I added an 'and' for even more emphasis. And some punctuation. :eek:

I do solemnly swear on the Bible
as I sit in this Witness chair standing trial
to only believe in myself from here on out
turn my back on all of you and
your god of rapists and hypocrites,
while inside I rage and shout.


Anyway, I think it's really really close, given just a few tweaks - perhaps not my suggestions, but something.

It is very powerful and harsh - gut-wrenching. I think it really is worth trying to get it just right.
 
#5 Genevieve (original and revised) - GuiltyPleasure

Genevieve

Oh I remember those heady days,
fresh young blades up from Oxford
or Cambridge driving me, reckless,
through spring-green country lanes
with a girl and a hamper
full of food to be consumed later.

My origin is France,
L’amour is in my very chassis
so the perfection was not lost.
Time overtook my 1904 open style
and I lay, neglected in a hedge, for years.
Rust ruined my shine and the elements
ate my paint, my leather seats rotted,
field mice made their home
in my dashboard.

It was a lonely time,
until a passing stroller found me
languishing and pulled me
from obscurity. I was reborn,
cobbled from other decrepit Darracqs,
christened "Annie" and was ready to rally.

My fame did not end there,
I starred in a film
as "Genevieve" and,
as all stars are, was buffed,
primped and coddled.

I shine still when called to race
but my true fame came
from film in the end.

Just call me Genevieve.



Oh I remember those heady days,
fresh young blades up from Oxford
or Cambridge driving me, reckless,
through spring-green country lanes
with a girl and a hamper
full of food to be consumed later.

My origin is France, love is in my
very chassis so the perfection was not lost.
Time overtook my 1904 open style
and I lay, neglected in a hedge for years.
Rust chewed my chrome and the elements
dulled my paint, my leather seats rotted,
field mice made their home
in my dashboard.

It was a lonely time,
until a passing stroller found me
languishing there and pulled me
from obscurity. I was reborn,
cobbled from other decrepit Darracqs,
christened "Annie" and was ready to rally.

My fame wasn't halted there,
I starred in a film as "Genevieve"
and, as all stars are,
was buffed, primped and coddled.

Still I shine when called to race
but my true fame came
from comedy in the end.
Just call me Genevieve.
 
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As Mags, said, not much was wrong with this one to begin with. Nevertheless, IMHO, even the small changes have made it tighter, and it packs a strong punch.

I think it's a perfect revision, retaining the sad, sweet reflective tone but packing a strong dose of defiance. I love it.

Kudos, Lyricalli. The revised version is my favorite this time around.
 
Decomposing

such beauty l see
beyond surface scuffs
character ingrained in withering wood
intricate latticework missing a piece or two
adorns this not so grand piano, which
concertos once did grace

melody, lost to the passage of time
no longer capable of keeping up
with the metronome’s beat
shrivelled ochre parchment
off which music would dance
stills, an unfinished symphony

an elegy expires in dust choked air
as swansong drifts amongst the motes
tone death, a note diminishes
as woodworm feast on Chopin and firewood
weep, for the music has died

This seems like a major departure from Honey stylie. Once again, I totally flubbed my guess. I think that the revised poem is much stronger, another case of the attentive poetess skillfully incorporating the suggestions of her PF&D brethren.
 
#5 Genevieve - the whys and wherefores

Note: When GP sent in her revision, she had notes on why she took some and not other revisions. I didn't post them at first to give more time for guessing and critique. Here are her notes now, however. (She evidently has her hands full with visitors.)

Oh I remember those heady days, [I like the d-d sound here so keeping it]
fresh young blades up from Oxford
or Cambridge driving me, reckless,
through spring-green country lanes
with a girl and a hamper
full of food to be consumed later.

My origin is France,
L’amour is in my very chassis [switched love to French]
so the perfection was not lost.
Time overtook my 1904 open style
and I lay, neglected in a hedge, for years.[added comma]
Rust ruined my shine and the elements [nickel electro- plating is just not poetic…..]
ate my paint, my leather seats rotted, [re-jigged these lines]
field mice made their home
in my dashboard.

It was a lonely time,
until a passing stroller found me
languishing and pulled me
from obscurity. I was reborn,
cobbled from other decrepit Darracqs,
christened "Annie" and was ready to rally.

My fame did not end there, [changed this line]
I starred in a film
as "Genevieve" and,
as all stars are, was buffed,
primped and coddled.

I shine still when called to race [re-worded these lines]
but my true fame came
from film in the end.

Just call me Genevieve.

Thank you all for suggestions. I'm still going to work to make it less prose
 
There weren't much wrong with #4 and #6 to begin with. :)

As Mags, said, not much was wrong with this one to begin with. Nevertheless, IMHO, even the small changes have made it tighter, and it packs a strong punch.

I think it's a perfect revision, retaining the sad, sweet reflective tone but packing a strong dose of defiance. I love it.

Kudos, Lyricalli. The revised version is my favorite this time around.

Thank you. :)


The feedback I got on the piece was very helpful, and I incorporated several of the suggestions that were made. They helped make it a better poem. Thank you to everyone who took the time to comment on the original version. Also, my thanks to Tod for his feedback on the revised version before I committed to sending it in.
 
The Turning was originally Turning My Back On God - an awful poem I wrote back in 2007 years ago and posted to a forum frequented mostly by Google Bots. I came across it again in 2014, but had zero interest in rewriting it until this challenge came along.

The 1st iteration focused more on a perverse trial like atmosphere taking place in a less than 18 year old narrator's mind. Knowing that this wasn't going to fly, I stripped out half the content. Then I jockeyed the remaining lines and stanzas about and added a few more lines throughout.

I was shocked that the 2nd iteration was so well received.

While the Revision or 3rd iteration incorporates some of your suggestions, I've become rather fond of aspects of it that remain.

There is already a 4th iteration incorporating additional suggestions by Legs.

And it is likely to change some more over the years to come.
 
The Persistence of Memory

I've been dabbling in surrealism lately. Much better known in painting, probably because of Salvador Dalí, it is less so in poetry. In retrospect, the title, which is the title of a well-known Dalí painting, https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Persistence_of_Memory, should have been in English. I also added an epigraph which might better suggest the surreal narrative that follows.

As unlikely as it may seem, something almost as strange happened when I was a young social worker in NJ. I took "María" to her first out-patient appointment after a week in the psychiatric ward of our local hospital because she attempted suicide when her lover abandoned her. She didn't speak English. I translated for an older Chinese psychiatrist whose English was good but was heavily accented. There was a lot of pregnant pauses during a feeble attempt at counseling when suddenly the young woman burst into tears. There were a few more attempts at consoling her back to the stoic demeanor she had when we first entered his office. "Dr. Wu" handed me a script to refill her anti-depressant medication, and we left.

The experience feels like a strange dream to me to this very day.

The use of the Greek delta symbol is a regrettable error on my part. I had a recollection that it was a medical abbreviation for "patient." "Pt." is the term used. Delta, I've since learned, indicates anatomical change. Tods makes a good point about the symbol, but it would be dishonest to say that was my intention, so pt. shall remain, and as to wanting to say the word, that works. So does "pee-tee." pt. without the caps was intentional.

Mer too makes good points about the mistakes with syntax producing different images than I intended. Interestingly, I like those as much if not better, so I think I'll keep them in.

I tried to make it clearer in the 4th stanza why "María" was in the state she was in. I added the 5th stanza with the photo of the doctor's wife staring at his pen and pencil set to loop back into the surreal imagery culminating in the absurd ending to the poem. The allusion to Chiang Kai-schek was too obscure and doesn't deserve an explanation to explain why I wrote it because it would read like a justification. It's weak and does little more than confuse the reader. I'll delete it in some future version, although I do like the inanimate object of a person seemingly staring at a desktop pen and pencil set.

I think Surrealism is in some ways harder to depict in words than in paintings. The Surrealist poets I've read tend to use humor to describe the absurd. I'll end with one of my favorite quotes from one of them:

"Neither I nor the four flippers of the sea-bear of the Boreal ocean have been able to solve the riddle of life.”
― Comte de Lautréamont

which, of course, is absurd, but not much different than the half-hour I spent in a psychiatrist's office many years ago.
 
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