Emotional Masochism

[intothewoods]

Pondering this while doing other things, it occurs to me there is a fine line separating pure psychological masochism from emotional masochism, though emotional maso can be part of psychological masochism. Does anyone else feel this way?

Catalina

What's the difference? Is psychological masochism like, the sky is purple - I will torture you until you believe it, and emotional masochism more like Netz's I might not ever fuck you again, you aren't that good.

I still think my not being able to let go of transgressions is a form of emotional masochism, but it's self-inflicted. Anyway, figuring out a way to let go is helping me today. Am very thankful for rebecca for bumping miss neon's thread!

As for the mindfuck in play ... it's really our bread and butter, way more common than the physical stuff. I really need it to get into the headspace of his control - a spanking isn't going to get me there. He needs to get inside my head and remind me that he can reduce me to just a mouth. That might not sound like a big deal, but for someone who has been treated like a little princess, it's kind of huge.

 

[twysted73]

And sometimes it is more about fucking with the head than just the heart or even the heart at all. For me, to have the heart taken care of while the head is fucked with, takes it to a whole deeper level where confusion reigns and is similar to trying to stand on swiftly shifting sands while feeling nothing will ever be the same again.

Catalina

You just summarized my entire post.

You rule.

 

[BiBunny]

I had forgotten I'd started this thread.

I think in the relationship that spurred this thread, part of the reason I stayed as long as I did is that it hurt so much to stay. In some convoluted way, it was a form of positive reinforcement, I suppose.

Anyway, that wound's starting to scab over yet again, so I'm not going to slow down the process even more by picking at it.

This is, however, still something I crave. I've just realized that I need more healthy forms of it. In my rather tentative search for a new Domly type over the past two or three months, I couldn't tell you how many perfectly nice men I've had to turn down because this was a sticking point. I don't think I'm unhealthy for wanting it, and I resented their implication that somehow I was. Like osg said, this is something that a lot of people are uncomfortable with.

I don't know how better than to explain it besides saying I need cruelty. I need to suffer in that delicious, agonizing way. But I think now I'm in a place where I need the other person's cruelty to be inspired by love, rather than by his own self-loathing.

 

[nh23]

Makes perfect sense to me. I can imagine some saying it is a sign of needing therapy, symbolic of low self esteem/a need to self destruct and/or put yourself in a bad place, but I don't agree and think it just shows a lack of being able to understand the delicate nuances being played out...and that is understandable if a person is not wired this way. I have had a few PM's here from time to time suggesting just this line of thought, but rest assured, for the first time in my life I am not having self esteem issues, nor do I feel I am looking to self destruct. I think it is difficult for those not into it to understand, similar to people who just do not understand why a physical masochist would enjoy pain, though perhaps even more difficult to relate to. Does it scare me when I think how far we have moved in this direction and how much further we plan to dive in? Yep, but I still admit I am attracted to it like a moth to a flame and trust F to be able to get us both through it in one piece.

Catalina

*nods* I've been told several times I need therapy. Do I? Maybe, maybe not..lol. I agree with you 100% on the self esteem issue. I do not have a low self esteem. I'm actually at a place in my life where I love my body, my mind. My self esteem is better than it's ever been. I don't think that I'm in self destruct mode either. *shrugs* I'm glad someone else knows how this feels though..it's a good feeling.

 

[nh23]

it makes sense to me, only because i've been there...intentionally and recklessly placing myself in situations over and over again where i would be hurt, emotionally beaten, stomped upon and degraded, made to feel like i was nothing but a worthless piece of sh*t. but with me, these drives came from a very negative place...many years of rock bottom low self-esteem. i needed the suffering in order to feel "right" or normal, as odd as that may seem to those who can't relate.

i'm glad that BiBunny started this thread, addressing a type of masochism that most lifestylers are very uncomfortable with and would probably like to deny totally. years ago i would describe myself as a masochist, but would always have to explain that i wasn't using the term the way most thought of it. i'm not a pain slut, i don't get wet and drippy from being caned and spanked. humiliation doesn't get me all hot and bothered. quite the contrary...i'm a total pain punk, from the second whack i'm desperate for it to be over with...humiliation beats me up...and degradation just takes me out for the count. i'll wallow in despair and self-pity for days or weeks afterwards. yet i crave and need it ALL. i need to be beaten, abused, psychologically tortured, and made to feel like so much gunk clogging up the storm drains. why? because i suppose that's the way life makes the most sense to me.

I can relate to some of this. However it's a bit different for me in the aspect that I don't have a low self esteem. But, to need this feeling to feel normal..that kinda makes me go hmm.. Shit I don't know..lol. Makes sense to me though.

 

[HottieMama]

My first thought on this was no way. I would never allow myself to be in that situation. But then I read through all of the posts and realized, well not only would I, but in fact I have. It was in a vanilla relationship. It wasn't that he was simply cruel or an outright ass. He gained some enjoyment from it, how I reacted to it. It wasn't something done on a regular basis, but certainly enough to recognize that it was a trait he had. Trying to understand it I would vent to friends. They could never understand why I did not walk away, and truthfully neither did I. The phrase "must be a masochist" was tossed out by both me and my friends. (Well, yeah, but I never put it into that context.)

In some ways, it did add an extra element. A change that added to what was already there. It did spur me to try to overcome things that were said, it upped my wanting to be everything he wanted. In some ways, it was beneficial. In others it was detrimental and left me with some pretty significant emotional scars. The fear of being disregarded is the biggest one. I'm working on that one, I really am. I have made progress. I have learned to recognize things that trigger that fear. I no longer sit back and let my mind wander, but ask directly when something has caused it to rear its ugly little head. In a way, I guess even that scar has its benefits. It has helped me find my voice. Still, it is a heavy price to pay.

I'm not sure how I stand on it. Did I derive any enjoyment from it at the time? I can't say that I did. Did I benefit from it? Well, yes, in the end. It's a dangerous playground for me. I do my best when I feel secure. However, the idea of trusting a man enough to not only have access to but to dig around in my psyche, to trust him with my emotional well being...that is a level of trust that I want to be able to have with someone. Complete trust. Even though the idea of it scares the hell out of me.

We have had very similar experiences and learned a lot of the same things. I am still trying to get over that fear of having someone "know" me that well that they can in turn "push all my buttons."

 

[intothewoods]

If the fuckwithyourhead play goes on in a safe space, it's ok. I just need like an imaginary line drawn in the sand - this place safe. Good girl.

 

[BiBunny]

If the fuckwithyourhead play goes on in a safe space, it's ok. I just need like an imaginary line drawn in the sand - this place safe. Good girl.

I sort of need that, too, in a way. It's why I could never be a slave. With the way I love to play way out there in the deep end, I need to know that I can still tell the other person to shove it up his ass sideways if he goes too far. I just don't think I could ever trust someone so much with that part of me that I could hand over all my free will.

 

[intothewoods]

I sort of need that, too, in a way. It's why I could never be a slave. With the way I love to play way out there in the deep end, I need to know that I can still tell the other person to shove it up his ass sideways if he goes too far. I just don't think I could ever trust someone so much with that part of me that I could hand over all my free will.

I don't know if that's my sub/slave dividing line, but I know what you mean. I always retain the right to say "time out."

 

[BiBunny]

I don't know if that's my sub/slave dividing line, but I know what you mean. I always retain the right to say "time out."

It's not my only dividing line, but it's certainly one of them. I don't like false dilemmas, i.e., suck it up or leave.

 

[rosco rathbone]

I've struggled for awhile about posting on this topic because I know there's a good possibility that I'm going to get a "that's not healthy" reply. I've been turning it around in my head, though, and curiosity is outweighing discretion at this point.

I get off on emotional masochism. I admit it. I don't have a lot to say on it at this point as my brain is still fried from the paper-writing earlier in the day, and I'd like to see others' input first. (Yeah, call me a chicken.) I just wondered about others out there who into it--how do you engage in that sort of play, etc.? Like I said, I'll put my own thoughts out there later.

I actually read a very long, well thought out, detailed description and defense of an emotional-masochism rshp, by the masochist, the other day. I'll try to dig it up.

I'm rather into it, from the other direction. Really, where does humiliation leave off and "responsible emotional masochism" start?

"Emotional masochism" is at the heart of all romance.

 

[BiBunny]

I actually read a very long, well thought out, detailed description and defense of an emotional-masochism rshp, by the masochist, the other day. I'll try to dig it up.

I'm rather into it, from the other direction. Really, where does humiliation leave off and "responsible emotional masochism" start?

"Emotional masochism" is at the heart of all romance.

I hope you can find it. I'd love to read it.

And, yes, I agree with your last statement.

 

[Netzach]

I actually read a very long, well thought out, detailed description and defense of an emotional-masochism rshp, by the masochist, the other day. I'll try to dig it up.

I'm rather into it, from the other direction. Really, where does humiliation leave off and "responsible emotional masochism" start?

"Emotional masochism" is at the heart of all romance.

If not that, emotional blackmail. There's just a point where that gets too weird for normal, and then a point where that gets too weird for most people who do D/s and then a point where yeah, maybe it's M/s but it's kind of crazy. I think I'm kind of wedged between the second and third descriptions somewhere with H.

 

[YourCaptor]

Well, I think I have done a type of mild version of this, although it was not intentional. I often laugh at other misfortune, and have a sense of black humor, which tends to result in some uncomfortable situations for certain individuals.

In my last relationship we had a 24/7 thing going, so most personal things of significance took on a d/s sort of dynamic. Sometimes when I laughed at her screwing up she would look into it way too far and get really upset, other times she was just fine, it all depended on her existing emotional state at the moment. Sometimes she would even get upset if I laughed at someone else, oddly enough during those times she was always grinning with me.

When she did get upset she thought I was pointing out some characteristic of hers and ridiculing them, telling her she is not good enough, which for her, coming from me, was apparently way too much to handle. Obviously that’s not little thing to deal with so I always had a serious talk with her about it. I think it actually strengthened our bond, the make up often resulted in the discovery of her subconscious fears and worries. I learned things about her that way that she could not have just told me because she didn’t realize they where in her until they actually came out.

I must admit, I also discovered I really, really love it when she was teetering on the edge, I get a serious ‘high of control’, knowing a tiny push could either bring her back or push her over the edge.

Just so you know, I would never have intentionally hurt her, in a bad way. Plus, if you push them over the edge everything’s over, total and utter failure. It’s much more fun to pull them back, then play and explore while they are still soft and gushing with pure, true, emotions. I think some of our most intense moments came out of this.

 

[_kiana_]

I need to stop reading this thread, but keep coming back to it. Just reading about emotional masochism has me getting hot.

However, the idea of trusting a man enough to not only have access to but to dig around in my psyche, to trust him with my emotional well being...that is a level of trust that I want to be able to have with someone. Complete trust. Even though the idea of it scares the hell out of me.

I am still trying to get over that fear of having someone "know" me that well that they can in turn "push all my buttons."

With some of the things I've learned about myself with the person I've been playing with over the last while, I don't think I'd enjoy myself with out this. With out the other person being able to fuck with all of the things inside of my head and to know all of my buttons. Even the buttons that turn me off and into a blubbering mess.

With all of the things I've done with my current 'play partner' I seem to always go back to the few times he's really fucked with my emotions. Completely manipulated me, just because he knew how, just because he could. And just knowing he has that kind of power over me, that there really isn't anything in my head that he doesn't know about, that he can't touch...*shivers*

I'm not sure if those would be all the way into being emotional masochism because once the scene is over, he can wash all of it away with words. Whatever he made me believe was happening during the scene is returned back to 'normal' afterwards. He doesn't leave any potential marks behind on my mind or emotions. (But the fact that we're not primary partners kinda makes leaving them there impossible.)

I think I'd be willing to delve further into this. And like everyone has said, it's scary as fuck. But I'm finding that the more I do it, the more I crave it.

 

[catalina_francisco]

I'm not sure it would have any impact or depth for me if it was a scene by scene thing. I would find it too easy to discount, shake off, see through. For us, we don't actually do scening as we are fortunate enough to be 24/7, so anything done or said can take place anywhere, anytime, and is left to continue in the mind or the flesh day in, day out. It does have its difficult days, but so far I wouldn't trade it for the alternative relative safety.

Catalina

 

[Marquis]

I've struggled for awhile about posting on this topic because I know there's a good possibility that I'm going to get a "that's not healthy" reply. I've been turning it around in my head, though, and curiosity is outweighing discretion at this point.

I get off on emotional masochism. I admit it. I don't have a lot to say on it at this point as my brain is still fried from the paper-writing earlier in the day, and I'd like to see others' input first. (Yeah, call me a chicken.) I just wondered about others out there who into it--how do you engage in that sort of play, etc.? Like I said, I'll put my own thoughts out there later.

I don't have time to read the replies yet, but I wanted to jump in and say I'm all about emotional masochism.

Sometimes it is more intentional than others, but it has been a part of who I am for as long as I can remember. I am drawn to people who can hurt my feelings. I thrive in crisis.

 

[_kiana_]

I'm not sure it would have any impact or depth for me if it was a scene by scene thing. I would find it too easy to discount, shake off, see through. For us, we don't actually do scening as we are fortunate enough to be 24/7, so anything done or said can take place anywhere, anytime, and is left to continue in the mind or the flesh day in, day out. It does have its difficult days, but so far I wouldn't trade it for the alternative relative safety.

Catalina

I would love to be able to take it to the point you have given the right circumstances. Unfortunately, the one who can do it to me isn't my husband! The one who does do it is very careful that it won't impact my life in general, for the very reason that he isn't the one always there. (Well, I assume that is one of the reasons. There must be many.)

It does make an impact on me right now because it's really the first time anyone has had this ability and used it. So it's still a novelty

 

[Netzach]

I don't have time to read the replies yet, but I wanted to jump in and say I'm all about emotional masochism.

Sometimes it is more intentional than others, but it has been a part of who I am for as long as I can remember. I am drawn to people who can hurt my feelings. I thrive in crisis.

This is a good point.

If they're not capable of turning me completely inside out I'd say I didn't really love them.

And I do test people, and I do test myself with people, I can see that.

 

[BiBunny]

This is a good point.

If they're not capable of turning me completely inside out I'd say I didn't really love them.

And I do test people, and I do test myself with people, I can see that.

Sonofabitch. I never thought of it that way, but, dude, that's me in a nutshell.

 

[Netzach]

Yeah, but it's more about delicious capability for me, these days. When I was mid-20's I really liked to surf the mental waves - and I don't feel as compelled to do it, unless the point is to get off like it is with H. When it happens in my marriage, it's just exhausting and unpleasant, not thrilling and "wow, how intense" as much.

Although make up sex is make up sex.

 

[intothewoods]

I don't have time to read the replies yet, but I wanted to jump in and say I'm all about emotional masochism.

Sometimes it is more intentional than others, but it has been a part of who I am for as long as I can remember. I am drawn to people who can hurt my feelings. I thrive in crisis.

I think crisis is a good word here.

I'm not sure it would have any impact or depth for me if it was a scene by scene thing. I would find it too easy to discount, shake off, see through. For us, we don't actually do scening as we are fortunate enough to be 24/7, so anything done or said can take place anywhere, anytime, and is left to continue in the mind or the flesh day in, day out. It does have its difficult days, but so far I wouldn't trade it for the alternative relative safety.

Catalina

I simply couldn't have this on the table 24/7 since I would feel like I am in a constant state of chaos or crisis. I can't do that because of work and caring for a young one.

 

[Marquis]

There are some ridiculously hot posts in this thread.

I would have to add myself to the list of being more psych edge than physical edge. I consider my physical play to be pretty edgy at times, particularly for my age, but I'm not doing anything physically that your average experienced player didn't get bored with years ago.

Well, it really is all so relative. I can tell you that I've never left the kind of bruises or drawn the amount of blood that you see in pics that are heavily traded and lusted over by people in our crowd.

On the other hand, I pull off emotional/psychological scenes, successfully, that leave me with an incredibly intense feeling of that childhood naughtiness that I think we're all so often after. That feeling like you've just done something that no one has ever really done before, that what you did would shock the pants off of most people who knew you, even people who knew you really really well. That you shocked the pants off of even your lover and yourself, and you are now both basking in the awkward curiosity of meeting for the first time those additional sides of that person; like distant cousins twice removed come for an unexpected visit.

 

[WakoJako]

Im sorry, i just dont get this thread... But then i suppose you have to be emotionally scarred in order to do so.

 

[Netzach]

There are some ridiculously hot posts in this thread.

I would have to add myself to the list of being more psych edge than physical edge. I consider my physical play to be pretty edgy at times, particularly for my age, but I'm not doing anything physically that your average experienced player didn't get bored with years ago.

Well, it really is all so relative. I can tell you that I've never left the kind of bruises or drawn the amount of blood that you see in pics that are heavily traded and lusted over by people in our crowd.

On the other hand, I pull off emotional/psychological scenes, successfully, that leave me with an incredibly intense feeling of that childhood naughtiness that I think we're all so often after. That feeling like you've just done something that no one has ever really done before, that what you did would shock the pants off of most people who knew you, even people who knew you really really well. That you shocked the pants off of even your lover and yourself, and you are now both basking in the awkward curiosity of meeting for the first time those additional sides of that person; like distant cousins twice removed come for an unexpected visit.

Oooo yeah - I feel like this especially when engaging in things described on the "whimsical dominations" thread that Rosco started a long time back, to me the edge that totally gets me there is in making someone do something not *difficult* but totally absurd.

It is regressive/transgressive. I really do feel like I'm about eight or nine and getting away with something huge.