Erotica or pornography

[unpredictablebijou]

well if I dig them out they are my old style of rhyming and if I get slated have you got a wide shoulder for sobbing on lol ?

My shoulders are quite wide, dear. And who knows, maybe it's time to dig up some old pieces, renovate the hell out of them, workshop them, and see what happens, hm?

bijou

 

[UnderYourSpell]

I don't rightly know what I am doing as it is in this whole new style, for me anyway, of writing ... to rhyme or not to rhyme that is the question lol Technical reviews leave me in a quivering heap lol

 

[Angeline]

I don't rightly know what I am doing as it is in this whole new style, for me anyway, of writing ... to rhyme or not to rhyme that is the question lol Technical reviews leave me in a quivering heap lol

I think most of us feel the way you do sometimes, whether we admit it or not. I figure we're all on the learning curve. Humility is good for the soul (and, ultimately, the poems we write). Even if one doesn't think that, it can rear its head here and bite you on the nose when you're least expecting it. You read someone else's poem, and it's wonderful and you remember.

 

[goliathtamer]

The Soiling Grounds

As I am not a 'POET' to your standard, I will simply ignore the fool who dare tempt the Gods and claim their poetry the absolute that gives them the right to break down that of others.

Poetry, not unlike beauty, is in the eye of the beholder, and it is obvious to this newbie, that you lack both.

Sign me,

Glasshouse in New York

 

[unpredictablebijou]

As I am not a 'POET' to your standard, I will simply ignore the fool who dare tempt the Gods and claim their poetry the absolute that gives them the right to break down that of others.

Poetry, not unlike beauty, is in the eye of the beholder, and it is obvious to this newbie, that you lack both.

Sign me,

Glasshouse in New York

Sweet, I don't think I saw your poem "broken down" much in here. In fact, I don't believe I'm the only one who would assert that it was very much worth reading.

I have quite a bit of work that could go on either side of the equation myself. I think that's what most of us are saying.

And I've always thought only a fool would seriously try to define Good and Bad as an absolute in any art form.

peace,
bijou

 

[Angeline]

As I am not a 'POET' to your standard, I will simply ignore the fool who dare tempt the Gods and claim their poetry the absolute that gives them the right to break down that of others.

Poetry, not unlike beauty, is in the eye of the beholder, and it is obvious to this newbie, that you lack both.

Sign me,

Glasshouse in New York

I said I thought your poem was good--the poem not the poet. I also said I liked the one it was compared to more--again, the poem not the poet. I'm sure there are people who like your poem better. It's not a personal attack or an opinion of your "poetry," which I don't even really know. Like bijou said, it's just an opinion. I don't think anyone here is claiming to have a "standard" other than their own opinions. I'm sorry if you don't like mine, but I'm entitled to it like you are to yours.

 

[Tzara]

Glasshouse in New York

The Glass House is in Connecticut.

That's a joke. I feel the need to make that clear.

I thought your poem was pretty well treated, actually. If you are so uncomfortable with receiving any kind of feedback other than something like "oh, gosh, your poem made me so hot!!! You are a genios!!!!!" then you might want to reconsider posting things. People have different opinions. Some will like your stuff, some won't. Both groups will sometimes tell you what they think.

If I may be permitted to be sententious for a moment, you are never as bad as the worst comments you receive, nor as good as the best ones.

Some people hate Shakespeare, too. Way it goes.

 

[goliathtamer]

Ahem...

My glasshouse is in NY, not to be mistaken by your glasshouse, cute

My reference was clearly to this post:

ishtat
Really Really Experienced Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Isle of Man
Posts: 321

Not far enough

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

You could go further I suppose and suggest that the first is both erotic and poetry and the second is neither.
_______________________________________________________
I do appreciate all helpful and not so helpful suggestions and even those who offered opinions with reasoning. Yet, I can not appreciate anyone who would go out of their way to make judgements of what poetry is. And I stick by what I posted. Anyone who would dare define another's art, as stated by another here, well, I will leave it at that.

And I thank the others for your encouragement and honest opinions that were stated with tact. You are correct in assuming it is a first draft. Yes, I know this will go against everything you believe in, when I tell you that first drafts when it comes to Erotica is the best draft, (of course that is a rule defined by what I consider art of this form.) I am smiling, I hope you are.

I certainly do not take any one single comment to heart or personally. That said, I did read some of the work posted by people who replied and offered opinions here and it is crystal clear that those who feel like poets have a poets heart. Tristesse and bijou I appreciate your input. I appreciate your input because it is honest, not mean spirited and helpful. I appreciate your input because I read your work and it clearly says: you know poetry when you see it, (again in my opinion). Tzara I agree with you, but I ask of you to take into consideration how you would feel if someone called your work, NOT poetry.

For me, in that mood, it was poetry. It made me wet to write it. It makes me wet to read it again.

On that note I would like to add one simple comment to that actual discussion brought up here. Erotica is just that. Certainly you can choose your taste for Erotica. If you seek porn, you have a choice. If you seek sex, you have a choice. Do you like it rough? Do you like it gentle, are you simply nasty and kinky? I can tell you that the words, smut, filth, and fuck do not offend me when I think of Erotica. I would be willing to bet that anyone writing in the manner I did, would have no problem posting a poem so rightly named, 'Just Fuck Me' in the Smut Erotica section, as it is what it is. Therefore, if you choose to expand your sections to be:

Newbies
Accomplished Work
Erotica for those that read while sipping tea with their pinky pointy
Smut for the Overtly Frigid
Smut for those who are comfortable with their sexuality and not offended by the word Fuck...

So be it...

Either way, Just Fuck Me had a proper warning, if you chose to read it and almost lost your cookies at the sight of profanity, than you have only yourself to blame for the bad taste in your mouth.

For me, Just Fuck Me, did its job. And apparently for many others judging by my email. I thank you for your honest feedback.

 

[unpredictablebijou]

Therefore, if you choose to expand your sections to be:

Newbies
Accomplished Work
Erotica for those that read while sipping tea with their pinky pointy
Smut for the Overtly Frigid
Smut for those who are comfortable with their sexuality and not offended by the word Fuck...

So be it...

.

best idea I've heard all goddamn day.

bijou

 

[xssve]

The best way I've heard it described is that pornography makes you want to masturbate, erotica makes you want to go out and get the real thing.

Both poems strike me as erotic in this sense, the first is bit... earthier, is all.

 

[champagne1982]

Therefore, if you choose to expand your sections to be:

Newbies
Accomplished Work
Erotica for those that read while sipping tea with their pinky pointy
Smut for the Overtly Frigid
Smut for those who are comfortable with their sexuality and not offended by the word Fuck...

So be it...

New challenge, write a poem for each of gtamer's new sections.

hehehehe.. Smut for the Overtly Frigid

You promised that I'd be left high and dry
when you sawed your hips
and waggled your thing
in my wicked slit's direction
you promised
you made me keep
your promise.
Bastard!

 

[goliathtamer]

Funny!

Thank You, you all made me smile....good stuff that

 

[Tzara]

Tzara I agree with you, but I ask of you to take into consideration how you would feel if someone called your work, NOT poetry.

Had it happen, sweet. Multiple times. Not entirely sure myself I am writing poetry. Don't really matter. I write what I want and people either like it or don't. Some make comments that are helpful (which can sometimes seem to be rather mean), and some don't.

What I think I am trying to say is that if you want to write, however serious you are about it, you need to lose your defensiveness about it. That's hard to do.

For me, in that mood, it was poetry. It made me wet to write it. It makes me wet to read it again.

Well, I could, um, discuss with you whether your making yourself wet with your writing is poetry. I'd probably stammer too much, though, and blush, and it wouldn't be a very effective dialogue. For either of us.

I will say, though, that what you think or feel about your writing, while important (why would you post something you think sucks?), isn't really that important. What's important, when you post it, is what your readers think.

What you want to be thinking about is whether you are making me wet, uh, hard. (Trust me, you do not want to be making me wet.)

If you have written something for your own satisfaction, fine. If for your special someone's enjoyment, also fine. If for the general public (however we define that here), then you kinda get the reactions that you get.

What I'm tryin' to say. People may like it or they may not. How you react to that is your choice.

On that note I would like to add one simple comment to that actual discussion brought up here. Erotica is just that. Certainly you can choose your taste for Erotica. If you seek porn, you have a choice. If you seek sex, you have a choice. Do you like it rough? Do you like it gentle, are you simply nasty and kinky? I can tell you that the words, smut, filth, and fuck do not offend me when I think of Erotica. I would be willing to bet that anyone writing in the manner I did, would have no problem posting a poem so rightly named, 'Just Fuck Me' in the Smut Erotica section, as it is what it is. Therefore, if you choose to expand your sections to be:

Newbies
Accomplished Work
Erotica for those that read while sipping tea with their pinky pointy
Smut for the Overtly Frigid
Smut for those who are comfortable with their sexuality and not offended by the word Fuck...

So be it...

Either way, Just Fuck Me had a proper warning, if you chose to read it and almost lost your cookies at the sight of profanity, than you have only yourself to blame for the bad taste in your mouth.

For me, Just Fuck Me, did its job. And apparently for many others judging by my email. I thank you for your honest feedback.

Be pleased with the positive feedback, m'dear. But if you want to post, get used to criticism. If you want to get better (and we all do, don't we?), listen to the criticism.

Some of it will help. Some will not. Learn to distinguish. "This sucks!" is not criticism. It is opinion.

OK. I am through being fatherly now. Perhaps I'll send you a suggestive PM instead.

You know, to put us back on more normal footing.

 

[The_Fool]

My name is The Fool and I write smut porno poetry....sometimes.

I take offense that so many have used my name in vain in this thread and I am going to stomp my foot and hold my breath until they quit. Darnit.

Oh shit. I lied. I said I wrote poetry and there is no such thing...

Oh well. Fuck it.

Hey Tess, wanna fool around with fool?

 

[Eluard]

Well, let's put this:

Had it happen, sweet. Multiple times. Not entirely sure myself I am writing poetry. Don't really matter. I write what I want and people either like it or don't. Some make comments that are helpful (which can sometimes seem to be rather mean), and some don't.

together with this:

I will say, though, that what you think or feel about your writing, while important (why would you post something you think sucks?), isn't really that important. What's important, when you post it, is what your readers think.

If you have written something for your own satisfaction, fine. If for your special someone's enjoyment, also fine. If for the general public (however we define that here), then you kinda get the reactions that you get.

So you write what you want, and people either like it or they don't, but for goliathtamer, well it's not important what she thinks about her stuff it's what her audience thinks once she decides to post it.

You don't sense the tiniest bit of a contradiction between these two? maybe even a little hyporcrisy?

Of course I have no doubt that it can be sorted out with a little bit of firm instruction in what you did and didn't mean, and that it should be obvious to everyone, etc etc.

 

[GuiltyPleasure]

I can't see any problem with what T says but then it is late, I am tired and he's always making me blush. Have at him!

 

[Tzara]

Well, let's put this:




together with this:




So you write what you want, and people either like it or they don't, but for goliathtamer, well it's not important what she thinks about her stuff it's what her audience thinks once she decides to post it.

You don't sense the tiniest bit of a contradiction between these two? maybe even a little hyporcrisy?

Of course I have no doubt that it can be sorted out with a little bit of firm instruction in what you did and didn't mean, and that it should be obvious to everyone, etc etc.

Contra diction is poet's prerogative, ain't it, El?

You clarify my comment. What I meant to say was, basically, don't worry about it. Pay attention to comments you think matter; don't pay attention to those you don't think matter.

What's "hyporcrisy?"

 

[goliathtamer]

It is official...

I am afraid of you and therefore afraid of all fools for life.


Thank you for the advice Tzara, point well taken.


I think we should get back to the original thread but that again, is just my humble opinion, and I apologize for taking you on this detour.

I would like to seriously read other opinions. Further breaking down the choices of Erotica to allow people to view more of what they see as enjoyable or inspiring could be a good idea.

I do see problematic situations however, as said by another: who gets to decide what is smut and what is tea-sipping, finger-pointing, material. Is there anyone qualified that is willing to embark upon such a quest?

 

[Tzara]

...he's always making me blush.

Is that why your spoon is red?

 

[MungoParkIII]

As the tea-sipping poet

And yes as a University of Texas graduate I am officially a tea-sipper, but anyway...

In writing erotic poetry I try to create the emotion and excitement using everyday language and using normally non-sexual things as sexual metaphors. Hence my poems: Basket, Harbor and Sailing. I challenge myself to use a language that the words in themselves could be spoken pretty much anywhere, it's just that when used in my specific context they become sexy. I see erotic poetry more a mental and spiritual thing than physical, so anatomy and contact become ideas rather than activity.

In reading erotica, I do find Anais Nin more appealing than Susie Bright, but I will read and enjoy both. As poetry goes, I am enamored by the subtlety of Japanese poet Akiko Yosano in her tanka from the Midaregami (Tangled Hair) but will read and enjoy Georges Bataille. I do think Anais Nin and Yosano write erotica while Bright will slip back and forth. Bataille is smut but very poetic too, perhaps that elevates to erotica, I'm not sure.

In writing poems I think the erotic writer needs to be very careful in their use of the words such as fuck, suck, cock, slit, etc. I think the poet must ask themselves how they are using the words. Is the entire strength of the poem vested in the use of the shocking words or can the power of the poem work without the words? I see many poems where the profanity is all that there is, so the poem becomes simply a progression of shocking words with a few interconnecting phrases.

I've looked at erotica this way: I see a woman wearing a skirt that comes down to mid-calf. She sits down and crosses her legs. The skirt is one of those split skirts so when she crosses her legs the split opens so I can see her uncovered leg up about to mid thigh. I find this image incredibly erotic and arousing. There is an allure, a mystery and an anticipation of perhaps peeking at more. It is here where I try to write poetry. This is erotica.

On the other hand: I see a woman completely naked, her legs spread open so I can see all of her. She teases herself, masturbating in front of me. Like before I am aroused, I find the image erotic, but I think the situation is more pornographic than erotic. Note I say pornographic and not obscene. I do enjoy this second scene, but on a more basic level. I try to write my erotic prose on this level but will often wax poetic and tea-sip, or more recently (I've been reading too much Kafka) simply go absurdist writing from the viewpoint of a bed, or a dildo.

As far as literotica readers go beyond a handful of people in the poetry forum and one or two reading prose, the more graphic the poem or story the better. Metaphor is lost or thought too pretensious. Absurdism usually brings comments wishing they could use negative numbers to rate stories (I've got to stop reading Kafka).

Anyway, that's a Tea-Sip's view. Mind you not just any tea-sip, a bonafide University of Texas Tea-Sip.

MP3

 

[goliathtamer]

Its not how sip the tea....

Its how you point the pinky...

Being a Graduate of the University of Texas, you should know this

I will agree to disagree.

Sometimes, I read a poem, that is shocking in its use of profanity and think...gah! what a waste.

Other times, I read a poem, of the same context, and think...that is profound and sexy.

At times, I read poetry such as yours, and think, that is simply electrifying, and other times, well you get the idea.


I fear conformity and feel it has no place here, and that is my opinion, I pray you take it as such, as I will take yours

 

[FifthFlower]

As I am not a 'POET' to your standard, I will simply ignore the fool who dare tempt the Gods and claim their poetry the absolute that gives them the right to break down that of others.

By my standards, you are a poet. I thought Just Fuck Me unusual and erotic.

 

[Picodiribibi]

By my standards, you are a poet. I thought Just Fuck Me unusual and erotic.

I liked it, but the simple rhymes and repetition of "just fuck me" made it come off as humorous to me. The rhythm of "Just Fuck Me" echoes a glam rock song of the mid-eighties to my ears: make-up and big hair; tight leather pants that leave nothing to the imagination; bad-boy attitude; over-the-top lyrics.
Come to think of it, the poem is very lyrical; it would probably make a better song.

 

[Sapphire_O]

When I go to the chocolatier, I see dark chocolate, milk chocolate, white chocolate, even chocolate with nuts in it.

When I go to the erotica section of the bookstore I see tender embraces, whips and chains, vampires, and butt plugs. These are just different flavours of erotica. I do not think Eros would be upset by the distinctions... why are we?

 

[MungoParkIII]

I will agree to disagree.

Sometimes, I read a poem, that is shocking in its use of profanity and think...gah! what a waste.

Other times, I read a poem, of the same context, and think...that is profound and sexy.

At times, I read poetry such as yours, and think, that is simply electrifying, and other times, well you get the idea.

Actually I think we agree here. My point was that, properly handled, the profanity can be profound and sexy, otherwise it becomes a waste. Similarly the tea-sipping finger pointing poetry can slip into the Hallmark variety type poem if improperly handled.

Looking specifically at goliathtamer's poem, at initial glance I thought, here it goes another one of "those". But as I read it, the rhythm and the pace became a powerful factor, basically supporting the power of the language the poet used, making the poem an enjoyable read.

MP3