Flogged Into Conversion

[catalina_francisco]

I'm not sure I am ready to jump onto the bandwagon of believing someone such as DVS has to try something first themselves to know they won't like it, or how it feels. Some things about yourself you just know (such as whether you could take to bottoming or not), and as much as someone can technically flog another and be flogged, how that is experienced differs physically not only from person to person on the receiving and giving end, but also on a psychological level...and also the mindset can go a long way to how something feels physically.

I have been in the position of having F use something on me...hurt like hell...then someone else who I was not involved deeply with do the exact same thing in the same way on the same area in the same session and it not feel anything like it did when F did it, often not even being that painful. So while I or someone can try something and then tell someone else how it felt, it might not necessarily feel remotely the same for the person the information is given to for any variety of reasons, hence why I have never put a lot of store in the belief a PYL should first try it on themselves so they know how it feels...they only know how it feels from their perspective, not necessarily another's...same applies for whether it might scar another or not...we all differ and what scars one person permanently doesn't necessarily scar another and vv.

Catalina

 

[JMohegan]

No, you misunderstood what I said. My rejection of pain is completely understandable as well as anybody else's rejection of pain would be. I think you'll find more than a few Doms that are wimps, just like I am. It's our skill to give those who enjoy receiving pain what they want, and in the manner they enjoy that makes us stand out.

What I said in the post was---And, I think that's sad, because you just can't explain to someone how this is going to feel. They have to experience it for themselves. And for many, sex is about love and pleasure. Nowhere have they ever been told that pain should be involved. It's a sad, vanilla world. If people could just get over the initial stigmas, life could be full of so much more pleasure.

Now, what I mean by that is this---if you are brought up thinking something is to be one way, that means you will have a very difficult time understanding another way. It's not easy for someone to look at love as involving inflicting pain upon another. I know of men who can't be what their wives want, because of this issue.

Our organized society says it's wrong to hit a woman. Of course it is done, and we have a name for it. Abuse. In the minds of many, it's seen as wrong. Rough sex is seen as rape and hitting a woman is seen as abuse and the people involved are sick.

I've got a very good friend who is a sociologist. I once confided in him that I enjoyed BDSM. He then proceeded to explain to me how sick I was in the head. "It's not normal" he told me.

There are misunderstandings out there. Lots of them. People think a snake is slimy. They think a toad will give them warts. These aren't quite the same thing, because a snake isn't slimy and a toad won't give you warts. But, there is a challenge in being a submissive.

There's a good chance you'll experience some pain. I guess you don't have to like it, but it's much better if you do. If you just endure it, I don't think you'll be very happy in such a relationship. You are just going through the motions for your Dom. It's better if the endorphins kick in.

But, if you never give it a try, you'll just never know. It's possible that you could enjoy it. There's always that chance. Sure, you might be like me. I don't enjoy it. But I did give it a try, so I know. But, how are you ever going to know, if you have a stigma attached that you can't get beyond?

Thanks for elaborating, DVS.

It's interesting to me that you describe yourself as a wimp. The combination of physical & mental issues involved in pain play are such that I would never describe anyone who's averse to bottoming that way. Conversely, I don't necessarily view those who crave pain as tough.

I don't enjoy bottoming, but don't consider myself to be a wimp either. My view on bottoming is: "no thanks, the overwhelming urge to throttle the Top really kills the mood for me."

 

[DVS]

Thanks for elaborating, DVS.

It's interesting to me that you describe yourself as a wimp. The combination of physical & mental issues involved in pain play are such that I would never describe anyone who's averse to bottoming that way. Conversely, I don't necessarily view those who crave pain as tough.

I don't enjoy bottoming, but don't consider myself to be a wimp either. My view on bottoming is: "no thanks, the overwhelming urge to throttle the Top really kills the mood for me."

I just know I don't like feeling pain. The women I beat on can take so much more pain than I could. But, they tend to enter a certain state of mind and just take it. I can't do that. That's why I consider myself a wimp. I'm not a wimp with other forms of pain. It's just the kind where I have no defense to it. Like you, maybe I'd feel the urge to take a swing. And isn't that topping from the bottom?

 

[Netzach]

I don't enjoy bottoming, but don't consider myself to be a wimp either. My view on bottoming is: "no thanks, the overwhelming urge to throttle the Top really kills the mood for me."

I've definitely experienced that. It's some particular activity that doesn't agree with me, or more likely, some person who doesn't agree with me.

I don't think T/b is fixed in the way that D/s orientations are for most people, actually - I think that people in general, can get off on pain, fear, endorphin, adrenaline, all the same crud in the brain.

If idea of bottoming no matter who you are if you are going to top is a "bandwagon" so be it. It's a very old tried one for good reasons, and I'm personally tired of seeing it dispensed in two seconds more and more frequently online. Of course I'm not going to experience painplay or watching Star Wars or going to New York in an identical way as M is - but having done those things as well, I have a common experience and point of reference, I have more foundation for guessing what MIGHT be going on, more gut level bodily affiliation.

I've never had patience with purely theoretical learning, though. I've always felt about it the way the Wife of Bath did, so I can't fathom thinking I knew as much as I do about anything without as much experiment, involvement, and trial and error, and I'd rather make art than write a paper, still having to be as aware as the paper writers of what's backing me up historically.

My opinion remains that we're all given pretty similar brains as hominids, they all have endorphins, and it's our individual psychology and experiences that make us gravitate toward "flying" from downhill skiiing or being hit in the ass with a stick or both or neither or something else. It's fine if you don't particularly care for being hit in the ass with a stick, but let's not create a sense of *impossibility* around basic brain chemistry.

You prefer buggering a woman in the ass than being poked with a needle. I do too, actually, though I am capable of either. Own it, love it.

 

[intothewoods]

I don't think T/b is fixed in the way that D/s orientations are for most people, actually - I think that people in general, can get off on pain, fear, endorphin, adrenaline, all the same crud in the brain.

I feel that way about subspace. It's just an endorphin rush, isn't it? I don't understand why it's sometimes discussed in magical terms, as if only The D of all Ds can do supersecretmoveX and get someone there.

 

[Evil_Geoff]

Some say they like floggers ? ? ?

I have some more...

And paddles? I have many Weapons of Ass Destruction...

Someone wants to try crops...

and canes???

These things can be negotiated...

 

[BiBunny]

If idea of bottoming no matter who you are if you are going to top is a "bandwagon" so be it. It's a very old tried one for good reasons, and I'm personally tired of seeing it dispensed in two seconds more and more frequently online.

Will you marry me? Seriously?

I have my own thoughts about why people dispense this idea, but I'll keep them to myself. I will say that of all the men I've bottomed to, the only two who could really keep me there in the moment with all my full attention trained on them were switches, too. Yes, dammit, I'm sorry, but I think the best Tops do bottom or have done so in the past. I hope that my own bottoming experiences will make me a better Top.

And, for the record, contrary to popular belief, bottoming makes one no less dominant, and Topping makes one no less submissive. T/b and D/s are not necessarily intertwined at all unless the participants want them to be.

 

[IsabellaKing]

and canes???

These things can be negotiated...

You can keep all the rest, but this table does something for me

 

[Evil_Geoff]

You can keep all the rest, but this table does something for me

You're quite welcome!

 

[IsabellaKing]

Are they all yours? It's a worryingly large collection

 

[Evil_Geoff]

Are they all yours? It's a worryingly large collection

I have different thicknesses and weights for different sensations... matched pairs for caning with both hands... and that pic was taken some time ago, the cane collection now is larger.

 

[BiaTcHiNFiRe]

Some say they like floggers ? ? ?

I have some more...

And paddles? I have many Weapons of Ass Destruction...

Someone wants to try crops...

and canes???

These things can be negotiated...

HOLY COW!! erm, i mean WOW

Bad, bad Geoff!!!

Where did you say you live???

 

[madetotakeit]

I have different thicknesses and weights for different sensations... matched pairs for caning with both hands... and that pic was taken some time ago, the cane collection now is larger.

I expected no less than a sizable collection from you EG. I especially like some of the floggers posted in the second picture...ummm...I'm going to scroll up and take another look now.

 

[Evil_Geoff]

HOLY COW!! erm, i mean WOW

Bad, bad Geoff!!!

Where did you say you live???

I live in the Columbia, South Carolina area of the United States.

 

[Evil_Geoff]

I expected no less than a sizable collection from you EG. I especially like some of the floggers posted in the second picture...ummm...I'm going to scroll up and take another look now.

coming to Atlanta? ? ?

 

[madetotakeit]

coming to Atlanta? ? ?

No, my plans changed. But I will be going to see Marquis' demonstration. I'll have to keep an eye on where you will be appearing in the future.

 

[unfoundiamond]

well, my love, Long time no talk, and my how you have advanced since my dissapearence (that typo was for all you haters btw)

I have only this to add,

Someone who doesnt enjoy pain on a sexual level.... doesnt enjoy it... The idea that if everyone tried it theyd somehow identify with us is... not something I subscribe to... maybe more people are into pain for pleasure but dont try, and never find out, is valid, but the idea that th vanilla world will somehow have a epiphany if they try S&M is... well, silly to me...

you either become sexually aroused by (spanking,flogging,caining,whipping) or you dont...

it either makes you feel good, or it doesnt, and the vanilla world may also develop even less understanding of us, and the lifestyle or pleasure people like me derive from pain at the hands of the most capable if they are trying something they arent "wired" to like....

anyways Made, I send my love... hope to see you soon

 

[madetotakeit]

I've had some clues over the years that pain would have an erotic effect on me...certain scenes in books or movies that made me wet, intense sex where injuries occur but kept going, post argument sex where you aren't quite over it and act out under the guise of passion. All indications that I have been aware of for years.

As much as I felt a pull to it, I tended to back away from it. Not so much for fear of whether I would enjoy it or not but a fear of how far I would take it. Once that door was opened there was no closing it. I know I have a high pain tolerance level (anybody who has to inject themselves twice a day and walks around daily with a pain level of 2 and has to avoid pain killers as much as possible when it spikes to 7 or 8 is going to build a tolerance . I won't even get into the various injuries, etc that I've dealt with.) I wasn't sure if how that tolerance would effect me. Would it take a lot for me to be effected? It seems like erotic pain is different. I was able to appreciate the flogging which never went beyond a 2 I would say, the paddling did have moments that were about a 4. I did realize the desire to feel more. Even though I did use my safe word a couple of times during the paddling, it wasn't so much for the pain threshold being reached as needing to pause to catch my breath and appreciate the moment. (But mostly to catch my breath...I have a tendency to hold mine to concentrate on sensations. )

I guess I have to say that, yes, I appear to be wired this way and I'm perfectly fine with that.

 

[A Desert Rose]

canes??? *ouch* That's all I have to say--just ouchie!!!!

Now floggers, yay!!!!

I'm with you. I wish someone could cane me into liking it.

And ouchie doesn't cover it, doll. It's "FUCKING OUCHIE" for me.

 

[intothewoods]

I'm with you. I wish someone could cane me into liking it.

And ouchie doesn't cover it, doll. It's "FUCKING OUCHIE" for me.

Heh heh. Real quick - the same sadist who did the awful scene with the canes, once had me blindfolded and did a few "nice" hits - and then said, guess what? That was a cane...

 

[_kiana_]

I'm with you. I wish someone could cane me into liking it.

And ouchie doesn't cover it, doll. It's "FUCKING OUCHIE" for me.

I hate that canes get such a bad rep. Yes, if they are used with high force with out having a good warm up they are painful as shit that canhave even the 'best' masochist screaming. But any implement of pain can be used in a way that doesn't actually hurt. Don't like canes but will take a paddling til your ass is raw? Simply run the cane over that sensitive area, not hitting, and you'll probably love it. Even just that gives a different sensation than running anything else over a hot ass would give. Light percussion taps are fun too.

Caning doesn't have to be full on, beat the shit out of you kind of thing.

 

[Dreamliner]

I hate that canes get such a bad rep. Yes, if they are used with high force with out having a good warm up they are painful as shit that canhave even the 'best' masochist screaming. But any implement of pain can be used in a way that doesn't actually hurt. Don't like canes but will take a paddling til your ass is raw? Simply run the cane over that sensitive area, not hitting, and you'll probably love it. Even just that gives a different sensation than running anything else over a hot ass would give. Light percussion taps are fun too.

Caning doesn't have to be full on, beat the shit out of you kind of thing.

kiana, you raise a good point here re just running the cane over the sensitive area. To heighten this, be blindfolded, that cuts off one of your senses, but should heighten others.

I also find that scene setting is very very important. As kiana mentions, "warm up" first. Add, use your brain and words. for me it involves getting her wanting to be paddled, or caned. If I were to try to early, it just loses the intent and that is not gratifying for either her or me.

 

[Evil_Geoff]

I'm with you. I wish someone could cane me into liking it.

And ouchie doesn't cover it, doll. It's "FUCKING OUCHIE" for me.

To bad you don't want to play in Atlanta, I think I could....

 

[Evil_Geoff]

Heh heh. Real quick - the same sadist who did the awful scene with the canes, once had me blindfolded and did a few "nice" hits - and then said, guess what? That was a cane...

It's _all_ in the mind....

 

[Netzach]

I hate that canes get such a bad rep. Yes, if they are used with high force with out having a good warm up they are painful as shit that canhave even the 'best' masochist screaming. But any implement of pain can be used in a way that doesn't actually hurt. Don't like canes but will take a paddling til your ass is raw? Simply run the cane over that sensitive area, not hitting, and you'll probably love it. Even just that gives a different sensation than running anything else over a hot ass would give. Light percussion taps are fun too.

Caning doesn't have to be full on, beat the shit out of you kind of thing.

I'm with you - it can be really artful, and the range that the toy has makes it my "desert island" implement.