For any men seeking to understand their potential impact on women…

[EmilyMiller]

It was an eye opening experience.

Fuuuuuck!

Emily

 

[AchtungNight]

I have been to Australia and dated Aussie chicks. I heartily recommend both. But I also recommend drinking responsibly in any situation. And not getting into bad situations if you can avoid it. Always have an escape plan.

 

[Rob_Royale]

After 33 years married I'm well aware of my impact on her. The phrases - "drive me to drink", "making me crazy", "would you leave my tits alone" and "what was I thinking", are thrown about with regularity.

 

[Mogrem]

I doubt many guys think about safety when talking to a woman in a bar.

Oh, we do ... Am I going to get humiliated when I approach a girl?

"Men worry women are going to laugh at them. Women worry men are going to kill them." I forget who said that.

________

Going off-topic:

The director (who is Australian) speaking about the movie in an Atlantic article:

—

Green noticed deep contrasts among audience reactions, depending on their cultural background. Australian viewers, she told me, considered the men on-screen “really kind and warm,” whereas American viewers felt dramatically differently. “I screened it here [in America] for some friends,” she said, “and they were like, as soon as Hugo Weaving arrives, ‘He’s deranged. The place is crazy.’”

These cultural differences can make such a difference to things like perceptions of aggression and intent in ways that are really hard to work out in advance, or even understand afterwards.

On another forum I was getting one of my non-erotic pieces very thoroughly critiqued. I'm British, two thirds the critiques were from Americans. There was a long meandering description of scene at the start of the piece and the Americans thought in that I was being deliberately vague, misleading the reader, and introducing a lot of tension and aggression. One of them suggested he thought it might have something to do with class because he just had such a bitter tone and those Britons are obsessed with class. This scene is going somewhere dark, they thought. The one Briton and one Irish who critiqued just thought it was a nice, detailed description of a couple buildings and a man who comes to the door to say hi. I still don't understand what or why (though I do understand that I needed to be a lot less purple in my writing in future).

 

[EmilyMiller]

These cultural differences can make such a difference to things like perceptions of aggression and intent in ways that are really hard to work out in advance, or even understand afterwards.

Green overlaid the cultural stuff to make a heightened point I believe.

On another forum I was getting one of my non-erotic pieces very thoroughly critiqued. I'm British, two thirds the critiques were from Americans.

Send me a link. I’m kinda a transatlantic girl. Lots of personal and professional ties to the UK. I think sometimes the differences are overplayed. But could just be me.

Emily

 

[intim8]

"Men worry women are going to laugh at them. Women worry men are going to kill them." I forget who said that.

Did you notice that that was one item in a much longer list?

 

[Mogrem]

Did you notice that that was one item in a much longer list?

Sure I did, wasn't attacking you.
You pointed to a lot of true things, like men having to be very wary of other men. That constant worry about who is going to start something with you because they want a fight is real. I feel that too.
No personal jibe intended.

 

[Mogrem]

Send me a link. I’m kinda a transatlantic girl. Lots of personal and professional ties to the UK.

That's very kind of you, thank you. Unfortunately I'm keeping up a strict pretense of different identities. If I didn't I'd be too self conscious of the filth I post or intend to post on Literotica. (Also this other one is behind a membership wall and you have to be added by a moderator to see the workshopping parts.)

I think sometimes the differences are overplayed. But could just be me.

I think you're right. However I'm not sure the piece was very well written, frankly, so it invited confusion. What was interesting was that the confusion was felt by readers from X but not from Y.

 

[EmilyMiller]

Let’s move the scenario to a one-on-one first date at a restaurant. I suggest that only one party would have any thoughts relating to personal safety in that situation.

Emily

 

[EmilyMiller]

the filth I post or intend to post on Literotica

Have you read any of my stories ?

Emily

 

[Mogrem]

Have you read any of my stories ?

I just checked and you're on my favourited authors list, so... yeah!

 

[intim8]

No personal jibe intended.

OK, it's cool. I was worried that would be seen as minimizing how it is for women.

 

[intim8]

Let’s move the scenario to a one-on-one first date at a restaurant. I suggest that only one party would have any thoughts relating to personal safety in that situation.

Definiitely. More women should be packing heat, even it up a bit.

 

[AlexBailey]

Thanks for this post, Em. It’s very thought provoking. There are times when I can relate.

I don’t ‘pass’ as female but I usually dress in non gender conforming ways when I’m out and about. The less cis I present and the less familiar the surroundings, the more the hamster brain switches on.

I presume this is why so many women travel in packs and why so many like big strong men as partners. My wife doesn’t mind when I’m femme in familiar and safe surroundings but other times she feels safer when I’m in full guy mode.

I’ve had some very uncomfortable experiences but nothing where I felt in imminent danger as a vulnerable objectivized person.

When I’m in guy mode I just go wherever without much care. Being out at night in a skirt and walking home from the pub I’ve had times when something happened - like big truck slowing down behind me - the hair stands up on the back of my neck. Do I turn around and let them see that I’m not a girl, or would that be worse? How fast can I make it to the next corner or the next street lamp? Why didn’t I bring my kubaton? A busy street with cars passing to and fro is easy, but an empty dark street with a slowing big redneck truck?

Guy mode is definitely less stressful.

 

[AchtungNight]

Let’s move the scenario to a one-on-one first date at a restaurant. I suggest that only one party would have any thoughts relating to personal safety in that situation.

Emily

As a guy, I would be thinking about the woman first and foremost, yeah. But I always pack some serious martial arts and fast talk skills and have cops on speed dial, so safety's not something I have trouble finding. I get into an unsafe situation, I know how to get out of it.

I'm more concerned about ethics and responsibility. Plus willingness to actually date me. You got all that, you're in on a trial basis at least. To quote one of my video game heroes, I'm easy, long as you don't try to slip me a mickey.

Any woman here interested in what I got, living within 50 miles of Austin, and ok with a now and then porno writer, amateur polyamorous playboy, and frugal spender, feel free to drop me a PM. Thx.

 

[SimonDoom]

Let’s move the scenario to a one-on-one first date at a restaurant. I suggest that only one party would have any thoughts relating to personal safety in that situation.

Emily

True from my experience. I've done a fair amount of online dating and had lots of interesting conversations with women about previous dates they've had. It's eye-opening and educational, and somewhat discouraging about my sex; I listen closely and inside my head constantly remind myself, "Don't do THAT."

 

[LMWM321]

This movie, like so many others, underscores the inherent danger of simply being a woman. Most men are strong enough to inflict serious injury or even death on most women just by dint of their size/ strength advantage. And they more likely to attempt such a heinous act because they are naturally more physically agreessive. Several of the scenes prompted hero fantasies of barging through the doors and saving the women by kicking some toxic-male ass. Of course, that invokes a whole 'nother set of questions. ..Anyway, not a great move but a good one for sure.

I'm proud to say that in my worst moments, drunk as a skunk, I've NEVER tried to bully a woman. Or forgot that "no means no". And have taught my sons the same. ..So bit by bit, the world is getting safer for women. Still, a long ways to go.

 

[tenyari]

"Men worry women are going to laugh at them. Women worry men are going to kill them." I forget who said that.

EDIT: The stuff I wrote came out all wrong in this one. Reading it back it was 'something-splaining' because I went on a tangent over something that does NOT belong in this thread.

Basically I made a tangent off the thread with statistics that are just NOT relevant here because they're my shield for my own past struggles. But if those belong anywhere, that somewhere was NOT here where it interrupted a very valid point of expression Emily was making.

So - deleting that, not to hide / cover up my mistake here, but so people don't have to suffer through what I wrote.

 

[Seadog777]

Nope, not going down this road either.

 

[BrightShinyGirl]

... But it’s never clear if safety is best achieved by being a fun girl, or a cool bitch. Which is less likely to provoke a negative reaction? Which is less likely to lead to people misunderstanding what we want and don’t want?

In some social circumstances, it can feel like the hamster is on steroids, calibrating and recalibrating in real time.

I’m not in the least saying men are bad, or even that a significant minority are. But, you have to be careful, because a small minority are not good guys, and it’s not like they have a stamp on their forehead identifying them. Any guy might be a threat, which leads some women to often treating all new men (and some familiar ones) with some caution.

I’m not trying to demonize anyone. But if – in your writing and personal life – you want to better understand the female condition and maybe why some women (me included) react how we do here and IRL, then watch this movie.

...

I've posted this before but I wrote this for my husband a few years ago:

Imagine you live in a world where bears are as intelligent as humans. They walk around on two legs, and they wear clothes, and they can talk, and they’re NICE. They’re not like wild animals at all – they’re just regular people who happen have been born in bear bodies. And they’re everywhere. You work with bears, and you hang out with bears, and you’ve even dated and slept with a few bears. Living with friendly, intelligent bears is just a normal part of your daily life.

Only … they’ve got those teeth, and they got those claws, and they weigh like 2000 pounds. On some level you know that if one of them ever decided to stop being nice – if it turned mean or violent – then it could really hurt you badly, and you’d have a hard time fighting back. So your safety depends on the bears around you never ever exploiting how much stronger they are than you. The fact that most bears are nice and gentle and friendly doesn’t matter. There’s still a built-in asymmetry to the power arrangement. You have to trust them in a way that they don’t have to trust you.

If you’re a guy and you want to know what it’s like to be a women, imagine living in bear world.

 

[EmilyMiller]

And most of that on both ends is projecting. This is where my criminal justice degree conflicts with my culturally ingrained "instincts". Where the rational part of me knows the gut feeling is wrong.

It's human nature to live in fear based on projecting our assumptions upon others.

Crime stats wise we're in one of the safest times in human history for women. Unless you live in a few unpleasant spots on the globe such as active warzones or the Mexican side of the US / Mexico border I think mostly over by Texas (unless the finally caught that serial killer). And women rarely laugh at men unless the bloke does something anyone would laugh at. He's more likely to have other men rag on him.

It's actually more dangerous for men to be out walking alone - but the nature of the crime is different albeit more deadly. Men are dramatically more often the victims of violent crime. This might be because they don't take caution, or it could be any number of other factors I'm not as well versed in.

Women are most likely to suffer sexual assault from someone they know. Stranger attacks are exceedingly rare (that noted: the number of predators is even rarer, but they tend to be serial and also both predictable and easily found out - but police don't bother. There's a very specific pattern that stranger rapists follow from their start doing things like exposure, to sex with a drunk girl at their Ivy league frat party where they're in the Federalist Society on the fast track to a Court appointment, to being "frisky" with an intern / secretary that they "did not have relations with", to attacking prostitutes and poor women, to attacks within their community, to murder - and it's found repeatedly when police actually look at DNA).

The pattern for stranger-based sexual predators is so repetitive that if police cared; they could almost act like the basic concept of the movie "Minority Report" (crimes were dealt with based on prediction of what you would do - despite the movie name it had NOTHING to do with race / ethnicity) and rarely be incorrect.


Statistically don't fear the large guy walking down the street near you at 3am or the awkwardly weird guy at the bar you hooked up with on a dating app, fear your brother's best friend, your boyfriend's roommate, your own family, your pastor, etc. Demographics do play a role here also. One is most likely to be harmed by someone of the same ethnic group - though some very unpleasant truths pop up here in regards to attacks by people from ethnic groups that hold historic power over those that historically did not. Those truths are often the opposite of popular stereotypes. And that holds globally.

You’re right - men are violent with men as well as with women. What do your stats say about women being violent with men?

Don’t worry women, men are awful to each other as well as to you. It’s not big deal.

Not sure what that has to do with the female experience however.

Emily

 

[EmilyMiller]

I've posted this before but I wrote this for my husband a few years ago:

Imagine you live in a world where bears are as intelligent as humans. They walk around on two legs, and they wear clothes, and they can talk, and they’re NICE. They’re not like wild animals at all – they’re just regular people who happen have been born in bear bodies. And they’re everywhere. You work with bears, and you hang out with bears, and you’ve even dated and slept with a few bears. Living with friendly, intelligent bears is just a normal part of your daily life.

Only … they’ve got those teeth, and they got those claws, and they weigh like 2000 pounds. On some level you know that if one of them ever decided to stop being nice – if it turned mean or violent – then it could really hurt you badly, and you’d have a hard time fighting back. So your safety depends on the bears around you never ever exploiting how much stronger they are than you. The fact that most bears are nice and gentle and friendly doesn’t matter. There’s still a built-in asymmetry to the power arrangement. You have to trust them in a way that they don’t have to trust you.

If you’re a guy and you want to know what it’s like to be a women, imagine living in bear world.

Precisely

And if the bears fight each other, that’s down to them. No relevance to what they can do to humans.

Emily

 

[EmilyMiller]

I seriously have to type this argument again.

Men kill men. So women shouldn’t be unduly nervous about men.

OK, makes sense to me.

Emily

 

[EmilyMiller]

Maybe I was not explicit enough. What women are most worried about around guys is not losing a fist fight. It’s being sexually assaulted.

As far as I know, crime stats (vastly under-reported as they are) suggest that this is a man on woman crime.

I’m not sure why whether or not the women knows that man is relevant to whether or not the experience of sexual assault is traumatic. It’s the same fucking thing.

Men rape women. Women don’t rape men.

That’s why women are sometimes worried around men. It’s not complicated.

Again - do as I suggest and watch the movie.

Emily

 

[AchtungNight]

Maybe I was not explicit enough. What women are most worried about around giys is not losing a fist fight. It’s being sexually assaulted.

As far as I know, crime stats (vastly under-reported as they are) suggest that this is a man on woman crime.

Men rape women. Women don’t rape men.

That’s why women are sometimes worried around men. It’s not complicated.

As a man who has been the victim of attempted sexual assault by a man (beat him off with stronger martial arts skills) _and_ sexual harassment by a woman and a man, I understand and yet disagree with your statement.

It’s healthy to acknowledge your limitations. It’s better to be able to enjoy life and do it responsibly too. There are ways to even the equation against bears. Pack bear spray, train your body and mind to fight back, get help- not many rapists are willing to go for a girl traveling with girlfriends. And of course plan ahead and be willing to have fun while being prepared for situations you can’t predict. Don’t think the world always has to go your way.

If shit has already happened to you, my condolences. Now remember my favorite anti-rape movie scene and- like Rachel McAdams in Red Eye, be willing and ready to kill the asshole taking advantage of you once the plane lands and you have a chance.