For any men seeking to understand their potential impact on women…

[Zootonius]

I'm Aussie and we are a lot more direct and have a harsh sense of humour. I had an American friend from NY State that would often be offended or startled by my sense of humour. We can be self deprecating which upset her Eat Pray Love sensibilities.

I'm curious if that sense of humour goes both ways. If a woman mocks a guy's masculinity, does the guy laugh along with it?

 

[nice90sguy]

I'm curious if that sense of humour goes both ways. If a woman mocks a guy's masculinity, does the guy laugh along with it?

I never do, but that's because of the ball-gag I'm usually wearing at the time

 

[AchtungNight]

I'm curious if that sense of humour goes both ways. If a woman mocks a guy's masculinity, does the guy laugh along with it?

Depends on the guy. The good ones probably do. I’ve never had the chance to observe it in general.

Some asshole guys are not just assholes around women by the way. As a straight victim of gay bashing I know this well. I attended a summer camp at age twelve. As an autistic kid who read a lot and just going through puberty. I wasn’t sure if it was the fact that I brought a romance novel bodice ripper (I was into the hot heroine on the cover over the guy and was reading it as a legal stroke book- lots of kids do such things) or they were just cruel jerks and I was a convenient target. Five of the six other boys in my cabin victimized me in different ways, all awful. There was Bob the leader, who directed the others to start it and told me I must be gay, refused to accept my explanation that I wasn’t, and almost relentlessly followed me around yelling insults. I had a temper, so I yelled back, threatened to punch him if he didn’t stop it. This prompted his huge buddy Ben to threaten me back while his fellow short pal whose name I don’t remember and a fat guy named Dick laughed along. The fifth guy was the worse though. He was almost Ben’s size and maybe a couple years older than the rest of us. His name was John. He said my confusion was normal and liked to put hands on my shoulder or arm in a condescending way and say everything would be fine as long as I accepted my place in the world. I told him to keep his hands and words to himself, sometimes forcefully. It wasn’t just insults these jerks gave me- I also had my clothes hidden, bed short sheeted, shampoo thrown at me in the shower… the worst part is no one stepped in on my behalf to stop it until I blew my stack. Instead they either ignored it, told me to “toughen up and they would keep picking on me until I did”, or just friend zoned me and said god knows what behind my back. I hoped joining a lot of activities with a majority of girls on the team would help, but it didn’t. Bob even got elected king of the camp- it was west Texas, and a similar asshat is running for President these days with high support there so I guess it shouldn’t be surprising.

Things didn’t change for three weeks. Then one night I ran away from the main shower with soap in my eyes and insults ringing in my ears back to the cabin. Graham actually dared to follow me and put hands on me again. This time I couldn’t take it anymore, grabbed his hand, and pushed it off. He didn’t stop, figured we were alone in the cabin, he was bigger than me, and so he had privileges… the thing is, I was not about to let him act like that. I did know some martial arts and I used them to beat him unconscious. I don’t remember what I did exactly, just a lot of swearing, punching, kicking, and rage. Plus I was only dressed in a towel. If you’ve seen Eastern Promises, it may have resembled a famous scene from that film. Nothing erotic about it either. The rest of the cabin did come back within about two minutes or so, and counselors pulled me off him. The same counselors who had ignored or encouraged the toxic environment of the camp.

The head counselor (who I had never met before) was called in to resolve things. Thankfully the one boy in my cabin who hadn’t joined in the bullying (he stayed quiet and just kept out of it until that point) backed my version of events and so did a few other witnesses. The counselor who encouraged me to “toughen up” was dismissed, Graham was sent to the infirmary, and I was taken to the head counselor’s house for three days of cooldown where I could enjoy video games and blissful ignorance. But the head counselor also explained to me that he just wanted to keep things quiet regarding both the bullying and my violent outburst. So he transferred me to another cabin- alone- and didn’t tell my parents about what happened. I was a pariah for the last week of camp, everyone stepping carefully around me. No one sent me to karate camp instead- I’m not my fictional alter ego and this wasn’t a movie. I found another shower, used it alone. Bob followed me one time, started his insults again, I cussed him out and since he didn’t have any of his followers he backed off. I never saw John again or heard anything about him. For the next two years I was also the kind of kid who would gladly diss gay people just to prove I wasn’t one of them. Karma intervened after that in the form of a gay stepbrother who I had thought was a Casanova type- dated a lot of women or so I thought, actually they were just friends mostly or a couple had tried to change him and failed. He came out of the closet before college not wanting to be afraid or hide himself any longer. He was also the seriously fit type and skilled in economics, I guess he didn’t care about possible backlash. Why he’s a Republican today I do not understand.

I responded to him with confusion at first, and misunderstanding. Then a pretty girl we both knew told me she was bisexual and Marco had helped her deal with it. Plus she reminded me I considered bisexual women hot and there is a thing called solidarity. I realized I was being like the bullies who had victimized me and I didn’t like it. So I accepted Marco as family. Later in life, I kissed a man in college on a dare, didn’t like it, and was glad to know I was straight. But I still support LBGT people. I’m not a bad guy, I’m a fellow victim.

And yes, I got lucky in my situation. I still have issues talking about it sometimes too. So if anyone needs empathy, I got it. That’s all I have to say about that.

 

[Jmanchu]

You know, I've never personally experienced being a woman dealing with dudes, I'm a guy, but I have been attacked(beaten) by people. Been bullied by kids bigger than me since I was seven, but I think that's everyone. Though I have been knocked out in high school by a group in highschool, stunned and then had the shit kicked out of me while on the ground. Been threatened physically, a few times by thugs and gangsters, on the streets and in highschool. I've had to defend myself in fights etc.

Though I HAVE had a few INTERESTING experiences where guys had tried to creep up on me, interesting experiences for a dude that doesn't swing that way or invite it let me tell you. one time a dude followed me on his truck, alone in the street hollering at me calling me "darling" from the back of my head in his driver's seat, back when I was a teen with long rocker hair, was just a shorter teenager which is probably what caused the misunderstanding. I'll never forget the look of horror on his face when he saw my rocker bearded face, realizing I was a teenage man not a girl from behind, and I turned around chest up, ready to fight, and me screaming at him like a maniac ready to throw down. Dude's truck squealed as he burnt rubber out of there.

Another time I was out late at night, two drunk dudes started following me in a bad part of the city I lived in at the time, hearing "I love you!!" I turn around, same thing. They both pause. One guy muttering "I don't need no man..." while the other blocked my path, asking if "x" street we were on was "x" street. I just tried me best to act calm, thinking tonight I could fucking possibly die, full on adrenaline deciding in my head "rush the bigger guy blocking my path while I act like my attention is on the smaller guy, then run." Thankfully it didn't come to that, they left.

I cut my hair after that, but it did make me think, "What if it was a chick in those situations?" Like if I didn't have the 'man strength,' and masculine pride to just get in people's faces and be a complete asshole, even though I wasn't the strongest, just mean in a fight, how those situations would have turned out if I was a chick and they had full intention to do something. I've had other weird situations with dudes, once had to end a friendship because the guy I suspected was gay for me, and said weird shit(really weird and creepy) to me more and more often while trying to play it off as a joke, despite the fact that I don't play those games with guys. He knew I was straight and had a girlfriend at the time, but I didn't know at first that he swung that way, had to deduce it myself. That experience made me think about "nice guys" that creep on girls. That shit still makes me cringe thinking about it.

Had guys try to creep on my former girl though(asking for her cup size, and shit), some were friends of hers that started innocently as gaming buddies. I had a feeling about some of them, then I caught their guilt tripping or trying to them playing their creepin like a joke for the shit they did on her when she got upset. I got on a few people's faces and chewed them out something nasty because the back of my mind I was thinking of those situations, and I didn't like my girl having to go through shit like what I mentioned, but her as a girl. I did try to tell her that, yeah she was right, that their jokes weren't just jokes and she had a right to feel creeped out. I did once help her text a dude that creeped on her, giving her the lines to make her sound like a "queen B" even though she didn't want to at first when she showed me what the guy was saying, she's just sweet, but I helped her, especially with some of the mean lines and calling out his bullshit. Guy stopped after that, never messaged her again. Some dudes are just predatory. Not all, but some.

 

[EmilyMiller]

You know, I've never personally experienced being a woman dealing with dudes, I'm a guy, but I have been attacked(beaten) by people. Been bullied by kids bigger than me since I was seven, but I think that's everyone. Though I have been knocked out in high school by a group in highschool, stunned and then had the shit kicked out of me while on the ground. Been threatened physically, a few times by thugs and gangsters, on the streets and in highschool. I've had to defend myself in fights etc.

Though I HAVE had a few INTERESTING experiences where guys had tried to creep up on me, interesting experiences for a dude that doesn't swing that way or invite it let me tell you. one time a dude followed me on his truck, alone in the street hollering at me calling me "darling" from the back of my head in his driver's seat, back when I was a teen with long rocker hair, was just a shorter teenager which is probably what caused the misunderstanding. I'll never forget the look of horror on his face when he saw my rocker bearded face, realizing I was a teenage man not a girl from behind, and I turned around chest up, ready to fight, and me screaming at him like a maniac ready to throw down. Dude's truck squealed as he burnt rubber out of there.

Another time I was out late at night, two drunk dudes started following me in a bad part of the city I lived in at the time, hearing "I love you!!" I turn around, same thing. They both pause. One guy muttering "I don't need no man..." while the other blocked my path, asking if "x" street we were on was "x" street. I just tried me best to act calm, thinking tonight I could fucking possibly die, full on adrenaline deciding in my head "rush the bigger guy blocking my path while I act like my attention is on the smaller guy, then run." Thankfully it didn't come to that, they left.

I cut my hair after that, but it did make me think, "What if it was a chick in those situations?" Like if I didn't have the 'man strength,' and masculine pride to just get in people's faces and be a complete asshole, even though I wasn't the strongest, just mean in a fight, how those situations would have turned out if I was a chick and they had full intention to do something. I've had other weird situations with dudes, once had to end a friendship because the guy I suspected was gay for me, and said weird shit(really weird and creepy) to me more and more often while trying to play it off as a joke, despite the fact that I don't play those games with guys. He knew I was straight and had a girlfriend at the time, but I didn't know at first that he swung that way, had to deduce it myself. That experience made me think about "nice guys" that creep on girls. That shit still makes me cringe thinking about it.

Had guys try to creep on my former girl though(asking for her cup size, and shit), some were friends of hers that started innocently as gaming buddies. I had a feeling about some of them, then I caught their guilt tripping or trying to them playing their creepin like a joke for the shit they did on her when she got upset. I got on a few people's faces and chewed them out something nasty because the back of my mind I was thinking of those situations, and I didn't like my girl having to go through shit like what I mentioned, but her as a girl. I did try to tell her that, yeah she was right, that their jokes weren't just jokes and she had a right to feel creeped out. I did once help her text a dude that creeped on her, giving her the lines to make her sound like a "queen B" even though she didn't want to at first when she showed me what the guy was saying, she's just sweet, but I helped her, especially with some of the mean lines and calling out his bullshit. Guy stopped after that, never messaged her again. Some dudes are just predatory. Not all, but some.

It’s a great idea to, you know, talk to a woman about what it’s like. You know women, guys, sisters, girlfriends, wives. Just ask.

Emily

 

[djrip]

Depends on the guy. The good ones probably do. I’ve never had the chance to observe it in general.

Some asshole guys are not just assholes around women by the way. As a straight victim of gay bashing I know this well. I attended a summer camp at age twelve. As an autistic kid who read a lot and just going through puberty. I wasn’t sure if it was the fact that I brought a romance novel bodice ripper (I was into the hot heroine on the cover over the guy and was reading it as a legal stroke book- lots of kids do such things) or they were just cruel jerks and I was a convenient target. Five of the six other boys in my cabin victimized me in different ways, all awful. There was Bob the leader, who directed the others to start it and told me I must be gay, refused to accept my explanation that I wasn’t, and almost relentlessly followed me around yelling insults. I had a temper, so I yelled back, threatened to punch him if he didn’t stop it. This prompted his huge buddy Ben to threaten me back while his fellow short pal whose name I don’t remember and a fat guy named Dick laughed along. The fifth guy was the worse though. He was almost Ben’s size and maybe a couple years older than the rest of us. His name was John. He said my confusion was normal and liked to put hands on my shoulder or arm in a condescending way and say everything would be fine as long as I accepted my place in the world. I told him to keep his hands and words to himself, sometimes forcefully. It wasn’t just insults these jerks gave me- I also had my clothes hidden, bed short sheeted, shampoo thrown at me in the shower… the worst part is no one stepped in on my behalf to stop it until I blew my stack. Instead they either ignored it, told me to “toughen up and they would keep picking on me until I did”, or just friend zoned me and said god knows what behind my back. I hoped joining a lot of activities with a majority of girls on the team would help, but it didn’t. Bob even got elected king of the camp- it was west Texas, and a similar asshat is running for President these days with high support there so I guess it shouldn’t be surprising.

Things didn’t change for three weeks. Then one night I ran away from the main shower with soap in my eyes and insults ringing in my ears back to the cabin. Graham actually dared to follow me and put hands on me again. This time I couldn’t take it anymore, grabbed his hand, and pushed it off. He didn’t stop, figured we were alone in the cabin, he was bigger than me, and so he had privileges… the thing is, I was not about to let him act like that. I did know some martial arts and I used them to beat him unconscious. I don’t remember what I did exactly, just a lot of swearing, punching, kicking, and rage. Plus I was only dressed in a towel. If you’ve seen Eastern Promises, it may have resembled a famous scene from that film. Nothing erotic about it either. The rest of the cabin did come back within about two minutes or so, and counselors pulled me off him. The same counselors who had ignored or encouraged the toxic environment of the camp.

The head counselor (who I had never met before) was called in to resolve things. Thankfully the one boy in my cabin who hadn’t joined in the bullying (he stayed quiet and just kept out of it until that point) backed my version of events and so did a few other witnesses. The counselor who encouraged me to “toughen up” was dismissed, Graham was sent to the infirmary, and I was taken to the head counselor’s house for three days of cooldown where I could enjoy video games and blissful ignorance. But the head counselor also explained to me that he just wanted to keep things quiet regarding both the bullying and my violent outburst. So he transferred me to another cabin- alone- and didn’t tell my parents about what happened. I was a pariah for the last week of camp, everyone stepping carefully around me. No one sent me to karate camp instead- I’m not my fictional alter ego and this wasn’t a movie. I found another shower, used it alone. Bob followed me one time, started his insults again, I cussed him out and since he didn’t have any of his followers he backed off. I never saw John again or heard anything about him. For the next two years I was also the kind of kid who would gladly diss gay people just to prove I wasn’t one of them. Karma intervened after that in the form of a gay stepbrother who I had thought was a Casanova type- dated a lot of women or so I thought, actually they were just friends mostly or a couple had tried to change him and failed. He came out of the closet before college not wanting to be afraid or hide himself any longer. He was also the seriously fit type and skilled in economics, I guess he didn’t care about possible backlash. Why he’s a Republican today I do not understand.

I responded to him with confusion at first, and misunderstanding. Then a pretty girl we both knew told me she was bisexual and Marco had helped her deal with it. Plus she reminded me I considered bisexual women hot and there is a thing called solidarity. I realized I was being like the bullies who had victimized me and I didn’t like it. So I accepted Marco as family. Later in life, I kissed a man in college on a dare, didn’t like it, and was glad to know I was straight. But I still support LBGT people. I’m not a bad guy, I’m a fellow victim.

And yes, I got lucky in my situation. I still have issues talking about it sometimes too. So if anyone needs empathy, I got it. That’s all I have to say about that.

Counselor: toughen up!

Achtung: *puts a guy in the hospital

Counselor: wait not like that!

 

[Jmanchu]

It’s a great idea to, you kniw, talk to a woman about what it’s like. You know women, guys, sisters, girlfriends, wives. Just ask.

Emily

I've had some conversations about the stuff my ex-girl dealt with. Never told her about the weird situations I mentioned, aside from a passing joking comment about the creepin gay guy former friend which she was dating me at the time when I blocked the dude, but about boundaries and let her talk her thoughts and feels on those situations she went through, and some talks about her exes and what weird shit she told me some of them did. Then trying to let her know she didn't deserve to be treated like that, and it's fine to put a stop to shit that makes you feel uncomfortable. Or cut people off if they can't respect your boundaries, and it's fine to be a queen B whenever the situation calls for it.

 

[EmilyMiller]

I've had some conversations about the stuff my ex-girl dealt with. Never told her about the weird situations I mentioned, aside from a passing joking comment about the creepin gay guy former friend which she was dating me at the time when I blocked the dude, but about boundaries and let her talk her thoughts and feels on those situations she went through, and some talks about her exes and what weird shit she told me some of them did. Then trying to let her know she didn't deserve to be treated like that, and it's fine to put a stop to shit that makes you feel uncomfortable. Or cut people off if they can't respect your boundaries, and it's fine to be a queen B whenever the situation calls for it.

Just in case it was unclear, I was encouraging others to do as you did, not telling you to do anything.

Maybe some women won’t open up about it, but some will. Listen to them.

Emily

 

[AlexBailey]

My kids went to school with several trans kids. They were friends with most of them but one FtM kid was a pain in the ass.

He had changed his name and pronouns several times over the school year and was playing the victim card whenever someone would forget.

My kids say that when he started taking T he became a total prick. He would toxically flirt with girls and get offended if they didn’t react favorably or at least in the same way they might react to any other guy.

Finally one of the quiet guys in the school went up to him and called him out for his ‘toxic masculinity’ and told him if he didn’t back off he would serve him the same way any rude guy deserved.

The poor faculty. They were twisted into pretzels over that incident.

 

[desecration]

Bob the leader, who directed the others to start it and told me I must be gay, refused to accept my explanation that I wasn’t, and almost relentlessly followed me around yelling insults.

Sounds like he's flirting, to be honest. "You must be gay! I need you to be gay! Take off your clothes right now!"

 

[AchtungNight]

Sounds like he's flirting, to be honest. "You must be gay! I need you to be gay! Take off your clothes right now!"

It wasn’t like that at all. More like “You’re gay, gay, gay!” I shouted “No, I’m not, shut up!” Other boys laughed along, others ignored it, and some just told me to shut up and take it. And- well, I already described what else happened once. I’m not doing it again. Please don’t mock what I went through. This kind of crap is never okay.

 

[desecration]

What makes you think I am mocking it? It's a very typical experience. Of course, in Austin you get to experience the other type of bully.

 

[AchtungNight]

What makes you think I am mocking it? It's a very typical experience. Of course, in Austin you get to experience the other type of bully.

What do you mean by that exactly?

 

[MorlockIam]

I'm curious if that sense of humour goes both ways. If a woman mocks a guy's masculinity, does the guy laugh along with it?

By self deprecating I meant we make fun of ourselves as well as having a laugh at others too.

But yes if a woman were to mock a man’s. masculinity others would laugh. Provided of course it was done in jest rather than an all out attack. Same rules apply to blokes.

 

[Jmanchu]

It wasn’t like that at all. More like “You’re gay, gay, gay!” I shouted “No, I’m not, shut up!” Other boys laughed along, others ignored it, and some just told me to shut up and take it. And- well, I already described what else happened once. I’m not doing it again. Please don’t mock what I went through. This kind of crap is never okay.

Some dudes bully other dudes to hide the fact they're gay for the homies, and because they fancy em. I don't want to make what you went through sound like was a joke(I don't think desecration was mocking you), but that guy MIGHT have some repressed gay tendencies. Some dudes in the closet have a lot of anger and insecurity issues about themselves as a person act out and project their gayness onto other guys, especially the guys they secretly fancy while trying to play it off like a mean joke.

I knew a dude in highschool that got in a lot of fights, was angry and mean and called other dudes gay while saying weird shit like joking about them how they could be raped(like that they were bitches that would get raped if they went to prison prison) or possibly being a shameless gay(like a gay manwhore that sleeps around), while he kinda did that to even the wrong dudes sometimes, he usually did it to the dudes that had no friends or were pushovers which he made it a point that they acted like bitches for being pushovers. And the shit he would would make jokes about when he was high was very suspect sometimes, like angry gay ramblings about someone and getting very specific on the homosexual sex acts he imagines this guy would be getting, saying this shit to the guy's face while getting all nasty and mocking, usually to the guys that were either not respected by everyone else and knew he could get away with shit talking them, or they were smaller or more of a pushover and not fight back. Needless to say, I hated that guy. Not because he was likely gay on top of whatever trauma he likely went through as a kid, who you're attracted to is none of my business, but because he was a nasty angry dude that constantly tested boundaries with people in a really undignifying way. Plus, he had a thuggish tendency to mug people and rob them, or just jump them.

Your bully, though a bit different and maybe not so explicit, but he sounds kinda like that guy. Especially with him consistently focusing on how "gay" you have to be, trying to get other people to join in(possible cover story to hide his gay feelings) then following you from the showers where you're alone? That's a bit suspect to me. I hope he's accepted himself as an adult to no longer have to resort to that kind of shit, and is surrounded with people who accept him for who he is.

P.S. I'm not saying that gay people are anything like that guy I mentioned, I know he's an outlier and his behavior stemmed from whatever trauma and rough childhood he went through, that he's an outlier. Gay, straight, man, woman, you can find anywhere people of all kinds constantly testing boundaries and try to humiliate others like that existing, but most, gay or straight, aren't like that. I know that. Just want to make that clear.

 

[AchtungNight]

Thank you. I don't think he was that type. More the kind of small person who got pleasure from mocking others and had people willing to help celebrate his ignorance. That's not any better, but, well, it's just my opinion.

 

[tenyari]

I've retyped this a dozen times trying to word it right but probably failing.

I didn't mean to offend or be dismissive. I also had barely read much of the thread before posting which never ends well.

I'm sorry I made that post because I feel like I derailed an important message Emily had.

I grew up with a lot of violence, and my mother had it worse. Another relative is why I get 'freaked' about incest stories, though for her it was her stepfather and it was NOT voluntary. My reaction to the experience was atypical. I 'broke' somewhere and got recklessly violent back, and took years to learn how to not be violent. Not what I'd recommend given how close I came to ending up locked up.

For me noting the stats on 'stranger' vs 'people we know' violence (especially sexual violence) is probably a coping mechanism of my own. I 'needed' that as a path other than anger when I dealt with situations that would trigger me. It helps me avoid flinching at a stranger for what people who were supposed to be there for me did.

My comment about predator frequency was a bad open to a worry I have: repeat attackers are way too common and way too under investigated.

To put it another way: This is an important statistic. But interpreting it as, "women see danger where there isn't" is unfair. And I know that's not the interpretation you were making. It's just a common one I see associated with the observation.

Yeah. I should NOT have gone down that subject in THIS thread because in this thread it makes the wrong point.

For so many people I knew when I was young; strangers feel safer than the monsters they endured at home. BUT that is a different topic that derails the one here. I've been quoted in too many spots in the thread though to be able to delete it.

So instead I will say that I am behind what the initial post was conveying, despite my very poorly worded off-topic response.

 

[EmilyMiller]

I've retyped this a dozen times trying to word it right but probably failing.

I didn't mean to offend or be dismissive. I also had barely read much of the thread before posting which never ends well.

I grew up with a lot of violence, and my mother had it worse. Another relative is why I get 'freaked' about incest stories, though for her it was her stepfather and it was NOT voluntary. My reaction to the experience was atypical. I 'broke' somewhere and got recklessly violent back, and took years to learn how to not be violent. Not what I'd recommend given how close I came to ending up locked up.

For me noting the stats on 'stranger' vs 'people we know' violence (especially sexual violence) is probably a coping mechanism of my own. I 'needed' that as a path other than anger when I dealt with situations that would trigger me. It helps me avoid flinching at a stranger for what people who were supposed to be there for me did.

My comment about predator frequency was a bad open to a worry I have: repeat attackers are way too common and way too under investigated.

Yeah. I should NOT have gone down that subject in THIS thread because in this thread it makes the wrong point.

For so many people I knew when I was young; strangers feel safer than the monsters they endured at home. BUT that is a different topic that derails the one here. I've been quoted in too many spots in the thread though to be able to delete it.

So instead I will say that I am behind what the initial post was conveying, despite my very poorly worded off-topic response.

That’s a brave and honorable post.

Emily

 

[EmilyMiller]

I've retyped this a dozen times trying to word it right but probably failing.

I didn't mean to offend or be dismissive. I also had barely read much of the thread before posting which never ends well.

I'm sorry I made that post because I feel like I derailed an important message Emily had.

I grew up with a lot of violence, and my mother had it worse. Another relative is why I get 'freaked' about incest stories, though for her it was her stepfather and it was NOT voluntary. My reaction to the experience was atypical. I 'broke' somewhere and got recklessly violent back, and took years to learn how to not be violent. Not what I'd recommend given how close I came to ending up locked up.

For me noting the stats on 'stranger' vs 'people we know' violence (especially sexual violence) is probably a coping mechanism of my own. I 'needed' that as a path other than anger when I dealt with situations that would trigger me. It helps me avoid flinching at a stranger for what people who were supposed to be there for me did.

My comment about predator frequency was a bad open to a worry I have: repeat attackers are way too common and way too under investigated.

Yeah. I should NOT have gone down that subject in THIS thread because in this thread it makes the wrong point.

For so many people I knew when I was young; strangers feel safer than the monsters they endured at home. BUT that is a different topic that derails the one here. I've been quoted in too many spots in the thread though to be able to delete it.

So instead I will say that I am behind what the initial post was conveying, despite my very poorly worded off-topic response.

And I’ll again apologize for my triggered response.

I’m trying to do that less.

Emily

 

[MorlockIam]

It’s kinda funny. Someone used their 7th post here to attack another member, demonstrating a total lack of any understanding about the subject and also then that they didn’t read the OP (or failed to comprehend it). Weird behavior right? And an example of either:

1. The way some men feel is OK to act towards women
2. People who are too afraid of how they might look attacking others and create an alt to do it

Either way

Emily

The only person I see doing this is….. you.

 

[EmilyMiller]

The only person I see doing this is….. you.

Bye

 

[MorlockIam]

Bye

My point has been proven.

 

[BrightShinyGirl]

My kids went to school with several trans kids. They were friends with most of them but one FtM kid was a pain in the ass.

He had changed his name and pronouns several times over the school year and was playing the victim card whenever someone would forget.

My kids say that when he started taking T he became a total prick. He would toxically flirt with girls and get offended if they didn’t react favorably or at least in the same way they might react to any other guy.

Finally one of the quiet guys in the school went up to him and called him out for his ‘toxic masculinity’ and told him if he didn’t back off he would serve him the same way any rude guy deserved.

The poor faculty. They were twisted into pretzels over that incident.

I read a woman on Twitter who said she knows trans men are real men, because they talk over her.

 

[Zootonius]

In my career, I gleaned a bit about women's plight in the business world. One example is stuck in my mind. A bright, young, female project manager asked me to a meeting. Seems a VP was adamant with her that a business process worked a certain way. He was wrong and the project manager was right. But it took my position to force the VP to understand. Now, I WROTE the software that managed the process, so he couldn't argue. BUT the project manager was in charge of it!

At that moment, I became acutely aware of 'mansplaining.'

 

[Kumquatqueen]

I read a woman on Twitter who said she knows trans men are real men, because they talk over her.

There was a neuroscientist called Ben Barres who was a trans man and wrote a fair bit about the huge changes in how he was treated after people saw him as male - so much more respect, including comments that his work was "so much better than his sister's" from people assuming his earlier papers in the name Barbara weren't his.

One friend of mine came out as a trans man age about 23, and spent the next few years acting like a really annoying teenage boy, of the know-it-all variety. Thankfully he grew out of it, and is now appropriately embarrassed 25 years later!