For those who assume supporting a Trump presidency over a Biden one means being a MAGA Trumper....

[JaySecrets]

https://thelifeinstitute.net/learning-centre/abortion-effects/children/conceived-in-rape#

 

[JaySecrets]

 

[JaySecrets]

 

[JaySecrets]

 

[JaySecrets]

 

[JaySecrets]

 

[JaySecrets]

 

[JaySecrets]

 

[JaySecrets]

 

[JaySecrets]

But, hey, you guys know better what it is than women who've been through the ugliest parts, survivors of abortion, medical doctors, and former leading Planned Parenthood clinicians and directors. What would THEY know?

 

[coati]

But, hey, you guys know better what it is than women who've been through the ugliest parts, survivors of abortion, medical doctors, and former leading Planned Parenthood clinicians and directors. What would THEY know?

Women know a hell of a lot more about their reproductive rights than you do, MAGAt, and they vote.

 

[JaySecrets]

Women know a hell of a lot more about their reproductive rights than you do, MAGAt, and they vote.

You clearly did not watch the videos l. They are mostly women, and all those who have the medical or life experience to speak on the subject. Take in the content before you comment on the content, please.

 

[coati]

You clearly did not watch the videos l. They are mostly women, and all those who have the medical or life experience to speak on the subject. Take in the content before you comment on the content, please.

Anecdotes mean nothing.

Watch how women vote, MAGAt. Overall, they know what health care options they need.

The MAGAts got away with bullying minorities, but they totally blew it when they tried to bully a majority. Spam on the porn board all you want, but watch how women vote overall.

And you are also blowing it by voting for an asshole who refuses to accept the results of any election he loses. We don't want a Putin situation in the USA. So, yes, you've proved you're a MAGAt.

 

[JoePepsiCo]

I am pretty exhausted with those who can't seem to separate support for a person's policies, or at least many of them, from blanket support for a man. Agreement on some key points does not, nor has it ever, equated to a cult following. For example, I agree with much of the moral teachings of Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses and could have a very good conversation about the state of society today. But I could never join with them on any other level because there are key components to their teachings that I consider to be dangerous and that make them horrible cults. In many ways, cults of personality are worse.

So, for those of you who are unable to distinguish enough to have a nuanced conversation, I am going to post here four MAJOR areas where I disagree with Trump's stated platform. I understand that on three of these issues it's because I don't think he goes far enough or gives too much, but that alone makes the point that I do not consider, nor have I ever considered, him a conservative in any sense of the word. He is a populist and a pragmatist. But I do prefer him over the alternative currently out there.

Having said all that, here are my four points of major DISAGREEMENT with Trump.

1: His stance on tariffs. He did this before and I had a major beef then too. Tariffs do not help any economy, not does the intended target of a tariff, especially if they, fairly or unfairly, control much of that market, ever actually take the biggest hit. This should be basic economics 101. When prices go up, the consumer, not the company, is going to pay them. So using tariffs to punish China and other bad actors on the national stage is just a bad idea. It has never worked. If he does this, it will easily at least partially undercut the economic benefits of a Trump presidency.

2: His willingness to leave abortion laws up to the states. Abortion is a human rights issue. A baby is IN a mother's womb, but it is not PART of her body. We know this to be scientifically true. The baby has separate DNA, can be a separate gender, has different needs, and is not legitimately a "my body, my choice" issue. That is a human life. That life, no matter how it is conceived, is precious. There are other options if the mother is in danger, or it was conceived in a horrific way, but to murder a baby because of crimes not its own is horrific. Abortion, taking the life of an innocent, is ALWAYS murder. We would not leave the right to murder a baby 1 hour out of the womb, even born prematurely, up to the states. The location of that baby's body has no bearing on whether or not it should be considered a crime of the most heinous nature. Instead of taking the easy route of leaving it up to the states, there needs to be support for treating murder as murder on a national level. Period.

3. Funding for Israel in their defense, short of actual crimes and corruption, which they have not been part of at least up to this point, should never have even the consideration of qualifiers beyond the consideration of what we can afford. I know there are a LOT of you that will flip out on this statement, but I stand by it. That is a much longer discussion I don't feel the need to get into here. But his willingness to add caveats to funding and aid makes me very nervous.

4. Heavy pushes on the so-called vax for Covid-19. These things are a nightmare and are making things worse. Again, because of the purpose of this thread, I am not going to engage in the debate over the position. There are great threads and posts out there that have that debate. You can make up your own mind on that subject. I am very nervous that a push compromise on this, though, can and will lead to taking away freedom of choice on this issue. As with any vax issue, I believe failure to allow individual and family liberty on this is in fact a fundamental constitutional violation of individual rights and opens the door to far more egregious violations. Give a government an inch, they will take... everything!

There are, of course, other minor issues, but these are huge deals for me. But given the choice between these and dealing with a radical leftist socialist agenda being pushed forward, I have no issues voting for the man. I just want there to be actual conservatives around him to keep him in check.

Doesn't matter, you're pissing up a rope. The modern incarnation of "Progressivism" is a rather black&white school of thought and it tends to SpyVSpy politics. There's no grey spy in Mad Magazine.

Similarly, "What? Me worry" now as become, the Fudd-ish, "Be vewwwy, vewwwy afwaid (we are fighting Hitler for all that is good and just. There can be no compromise, there can only be one).


We have met the enemy and he is us.

 

[JoePepsiCo]

Boilerplate Disclaimer:

I don't give a shit about abortion even though it is Holy Sacrament to the Left, one of the legs of their secular religion. Abortion is murder, but I will do not one thing to stop a woman from murdering her unborn baby nor do I want my government involved, but the Left keeps dragging us there to fight for "morality"

All I ask is that the Left be honest and call it what it is. It's not "just" a mass of tissue...

It is the union of a man and a woman. It is life.

It is "murder."

CCCC

 

[YDB95]

Nice try with the *anti-choice* description LOL. They have a choice, it’s called *pro-life*! They believe in the sanctity of life and that a human life begins at conception.

I refuse to use "pro-life" because I consider it both inflammatory and a misnomer. There is nothing "pro-life" about forcing a woman to give birth to a baby she doesn't even want. I could switch to "pro-forced-birth" if you like that better.

One, Christ did speak on the value of human life, and particularly that of a child.

A child, Jay. Not an embryo.
I could trot out the old conundrum here about a lab full of zygotes and a two-year-old - if it catches on fire and you only have time to save one or the other, don't expect me to believe even you would find it a difficult choice.

The problem is that you pit the God of the OT against the Jesus of the NT. It's one and the same God. Jesus declared that when he attributed to Himself the Title of I Am, one of the most sacred Titles of God, and when He claimed Authority over nature, over sin, and over death. So he had much to say on the subject.

That's your interpretation, not what he actually said (or more specifically, didn't say). And yes, it's one and the same God, but human perspectives of the two are quite different - except maybe for people like you.

As for promiscuity, you assume I was only speaking of female behavior. I never implied that.

I grant you may not have meant to. But here's what you did say: "Means a person can sleep around, do whatever they please"...only the women end up pregnant in that scenario. (Go right ahead with your transphobic zinger - I never saw that one coming!) And I literally can't think of a single time I ever heard an anti-choicer speak up in support of deadbeat-dads laws, just for starters. I can't prove it but I sincerely doubt you have.

These are the voices of those who went through it. Maybe listen to what they have to say instead of just spouting your own opinions.

I guess we could ask you to do the same with the millions of women who have no regrets. Not to mention almost all stories of "abortion survivors" have been debunked. (Think about it, what kind of sadistic mother would tell her children she tried to abort them?)

Oh, and men, don't you dare mansplain and disagree with these women's positions. You set the rules, now live with them. For you to say a word against what they say is you trying to oppress women and impose your misogynistic views on them.

Don't confuse reality with your self-serving caricature of our point of view. No, it's not mansplaining every time a man disagrees with a woman.

 

[ll74]

But, hey, you guys know better what it is than women who've been through the ugliest parts, survivors of abortion, medical doctors, and former leading Planned Parenthood clinicians and directors. What would THEY know?

Abortion can be performed without Planned Parenthood.

All you have done is post things that make you upset.

 

[JoePepsiCo]

B-b-b-but..., we've been told repeatedly, if not for PP, dark, dirty back alleys and coat hangers.


Rusty coat hangers...

 

[icanhelp1]

I refuse to use "pro-life" because I consider it both inflammatory and a misnomer. There is nothing "pro-life" about forcing a woman to give birth to a baby she doesn't even want. I could switch to "pro-forced-birth" if you like that better.

Only in your eyes. Women having sex make a choice, perhaps a bad one but a choice just the same. In today’s world there are a multitude of protections available. In most cases sex doesn’t have to result in a pregnancy. Lazyiness, poor planning or failing to maintaining their faculties leads up to bad situations. Guys are just as much responsible for inappropriate behavior and should own up to their end of the bargain.

Before you go off half cocked I’m not saying there aren’t situations where abortion is an appropriate resolution, but those are the exceptions not the rule.

A child, Jay. Not an embryo.
I could trot out the old conundrum here about a lab full of zygotes and a two-year-old - if it catches on fire and you only have time to save one or the other, don't expect me to believe even you would find it a difficult choice.

That's your interpretation, not what he actually said (or more specifically, didn't say). And yes, it's one and the same God, but human perspectives of the two are quite different - except maybe for people like you.

I grant you may not have meant to. But here's what you did say: "Means a person can sleep around, do whatever they please"...only the women end up pregnant in that scenario. (Go right ahead with your transphobic zinger - I never saw that one coming!) And I literally can't think of a single time I ever heard an anti-choicer speak up in support of deadbeat-dads laws, just for starters. I can't prove it but I sincerely doubt you have.


I guess we could ask you to do the same with the millions of women who have no regrets. Not to mention almost all stories of "abortion survivors" have been debunked. (Think about it, what kind of sadistic mother would tell her children she tried to abort them?)


Don't confuse reality with your self-serving caricature of our point of view. No, it's not mansplaining every time a man disagrees with a woman.

I’ve spoken many times of dead beat dads so just because you don’t pay attention doesn’t mean no one has discussed it.

 

[JoePepsiCo]

Liberals love abortion, it falls mainly on minorities who enjoy the highest rates of abortion.

Liberal men especially love it because it absolves them of any and all responsibility.

"Just flush it babe. I'm outta here..."

 

[jomar]

How creative, I bet you’re tired after all that creativity.

C’mon man, if you’re gonna give me shit about a joke you simply have to do better than this!

Also, maybe JaySecrets is DawnofDay/Night resurrected, has that tone.

 

[Fuzzy1975]

Nice try with the *anti-choice* description LOL. They have a choice, it’s called *pro-life*! They believe in the sanctity of life and that a human life begins at conception.

Keyword....believe. They don't believe they demand.

 

[coati]

More MAGAt men are jumping in this thread to state what they think women SHOULD DO.

Watch how women actually vote, MAGAts.

 

[Bray123]

Problem is, making abortions illegal doesn't solve anything. Women will still get abortions but they will be illegal and unsafe.

Also there will be many more unwanted children born, whom the MAGATs have no intention of supporting either financially or otherwise.

All they are interested in is spreading hatred, owning the libs, dividing the nation.

 

[icanhelp1]

C’mon man, if you’re gonna give me shit about a joke you simply have to do better than this!

Also, maybe JaySecrets is DawnofDay/Night resurrected, has that tone.

Dawnoday was an insightful poster.