For those who assume supporting a Trump presidency over a Biden one means being a MAGA Trumper....

[JaySecrets]

In other words, if we're dealing honestly with scientific terms, the child in the womb is a baby. Using scientific definitions. Using biological definitions. We are simply talking about the various stages of a baby's development. To claim that I can kill a fetus, or now we can actually use the accurate term baby in the womb, is to say I get to pick and choose at what stage of a baby's development I get to kill it. That is sick and immoral.

 

[ll74]

Okay, now that we've established that the fetus in the womb is a living being, what kind of living being is it? Is it a zebra? A unicorn? A monkey? A frog? A dog? A banana? What kind of living being?

It's a human life.

I have not deflected at all. You have. .I have not disputed facts. You have.

 

[ll74]

In other words, if we're dealing honestly with scientific terms, the child in the womb is a baby.

That's not being honest about anything.

Using scientific definitions. Using biological definitions. We are simply talking about the various stages of a baby's development. To claim that I can kill a fetus, or now we can actually use the accurate term baby in the womb, is to say I get to pick and choose at what stage of a baby's development I get to kill it. That is sick and immoral.

A baby does not exist until after completing the birthing process.

An abortion is the termination of a pregnancy. Further development of the zygote or fetus does not continue once the pregnancy has been terminated.

And yet you still need to refer to it incorrectly because of your emotions.

 

[JaySecrets]

That's not being honest about anything.


A baby does not exist until after completing the birthing process.

An abortion is the termination of a pregnancy. Further development of the zygote or fetus does not continue once the pregnancy has been terminated.

And yet you still need to refer to it incorrectly because of your emotions.

So there's a friend of mine who had... you'll call it a fetus... in her womb. Her boyfriend was an abusive pos. He punched her repeatedly in the stomach until he killed that child in her womb. Would you convict him of murder? Because, as far as she is concerned, he murdered her baby.

 

[ll74]

So there's a friend of mine who had... you'll call it a fetus... in her womb. Her boyfriend was an abusive pos. He punched her repeatedly in the stomach until he killed that child in her womb. Would you convict him of murder? Because, as far as she is concerned, he murdered her baby.

Legally, it would depend on the law in the state. Some would while others wouldn't.

I prefer that it would be considered manslaughter at the least because the woman did not choose to terminate her pregnancy - it was forced upon her. You could probably create a category for it.

That's not the gotcha you think it is nor is it conflicted.

Adding: would you consider that an abortion?

 

[JaySecrets]

Legally, it would depend on the law in the state. Some would while others wouldn't.

I prefer that it would be considered manslaughter at the least because the woman did not choose to terminate her pregnancy - it was forced upon her. You could probably create a category for it.

That's not the gotcha you think it is nor is it conflicted.

Adding: would you consider that an abortion?

The fact that you would consider that manslaughter means you're recognizing that unborn child as a unborn child. You don't have a manslaughter charge against a non-human being, a non-person. I don't have manslaughter charges against killing a monkey. Or taking out a blob of tissue. So you just proved your hypocrisy on the subject.

And no, I would not consider that an abortion. I would consider that a murder committed by the man who beat her in the stomach. Because I am consistent. And I'm not being hypocritical. Murder is murder is murder.

 

[ll74]

The fact that you would consider that manslaughter means you're recognizing that unborn child as a unborn child.

Only in the way that the woman intends it to be.

You don't have a manslaughter charge against a non-human being, a non-person. I don't have manslaughter charges against killing a monkey. Or taking out a blob of tissue. So you just proved your hypocrisy on the subject.

That's why I suggested a new category. Manslaughter would meet the degree of punishment but not the terminology. Some states consider it murder..some don't.

It doesn't prove anything. A woman has the choice, every time, to carry her pregnancy to term. An interruption of that choice would be the taking of her right to do so.

And no, I would not consider that an abortion. I would consider that a murder committed by the man who beat her in the stomach. Because I am consistent. And I'm not being hypocritical. Murder is murder is murder

It is not murder - it is forced termination of a pregnancy.

As I said, I wish you well on your lobby for your position. You continue to consider my position wrong and refuse to allow me the same. Which again, goes back to your lack of sincerity of policy discussion.


I even suggested the compromise of codifying Roe. You would never allow it to be considered.

 

[adrina]

I wonder just how much more men would have to say about abortion if they actually were the ones to gestate and give birth.

 

[BrightShinyGirl]

So there's a friend of mine who had... you'll call it a fetus... in her womb. Her boyfriend was an abusive pos. He punched her repeatedly in the stomach until he killed that child in her womb. Would you convict him of murder? Because, as far as she is concerned, he murdered her baby.

Not murder. The Torah is very clear on this. See Exodus:21-23.

 

[RoryN]

Notice how Deplorables scream and cry about their words supposedly being "twisted" by others whenever their logic / argument goes to shit?

 

[jomar]

Is JaysSecrets and desecration one and the same? They both sound so reasonable while saying the zaniest things

Lady justice has been stripped of her blindfold by the leftist activist AGs, DAs and certain judges, steeped in self serving partisan political shenanigans….

You spelled rightist wrong

 

[dmallord]

You cannot possibly have read all of what was said as quickly as that. SO what you just posted is knee-jerk reaction. Exactly the opposite of nuanced thought and debate. Unless your intention was to prove my point, you may want to actually read what others have to say, consider it, and give a full, well-thought-out, multi=sentence response. Thank you for your input, though. I appreciate it.

I read your thoughtful and reasoned post. I read a bit faster than some, like others here, also seem to be able to do.

You posted 797 words of thoughtful insight and information. Here is just some added info for your consideration:

• An average adult leisure reader's reading rate is between 200-300 words per minute (wpm).
• You posted 797 words
• At 200 wpm that takes short of 4 minutes
• At 300 wpm that equates to 2.6 minutes
• At 350, slightly above reading for leisure, as in reading for purposeful meaning, this would be 2.3 minutes

So, the response you received was tagged around three minutes. The short reply did not address your post point by point. This is completely possible for someone informed about Trump and already having an opinion.

As to the content, I'll accept your premise as one you believe in. At least you don't come across as MAGA material or someone slaved to Trump's ideology.

 

[dmallord]

Your version of "integrity" is following whatever CNN, PBS, or MSNBC tells you to believe. Your version of "empathy" tells you it's okay to murder babies in the womb and support groups that are burning down cities, looting, and assaulting and murdering in the name of "social justice". Your version of social awareness is a "woke" way of thinking that has created a woke army of people who look and act a hell of a lot like Nazi brown shirts. And your version of intellect is the regurgitation of ideas and thoughts that socialist professors and "intellectuals" spew.

So you will forgive me if I don't take your name calling and insults too seriously.

What happened to your idea of even-sided discussion? Nothing here speaks to the consideration of a reasoned process. Your words are purely disparaging, triggered anger words, and very Trumpian words.

It's not rational.

 

[icanhelp1]

What happened to your idea of even-sided discussion? Nothing here speaks to the consideration of a reasoned process. Your words are purely disparaging, triggered anger words, and very Trumpian words.

It's not rational.

He’ll start when you start.

 

[icanhelp1]

Is JaysSecrets and desecration one and the same? They both sound so reasonable while saying the zaniest things


You spelled rightist wrong

How creative, I bet you’re tired after all that creativity.

 

[butters]

What happened to your idea of even-sided discussion? Nothing here speaks to the consideration of a reasoned process. Your words are purely disparaging, triggered anger words, and very Trumpian words.

It's not rational.

it's also so so wrong on so many levels

 

[Fuzzy1975]

He’ll start when you start.

Unfortunately he never will. Ideologists never do.

 

[JaySecrets]

I wonder just how much more men would have to say about abortion if they actually were the ones to gestate and give birth.

I have mentioned this earlier, but the most vocal and open pro-life people, those who most openly and vocally oppose abortion are women. And many of them women who have had abortions and know what it did to them, or women who have been the practitioners and doctors doing the abortions. Women who were key players in Planned Parenthood untill they got sick of the murder, the corruption, and the dishonesty. Yes, men can oppose abortion, but to play that down is like dismissing men who openly oppose the rape of women. Some things are simply vile and wrong.

But the biggest leaders in the pro-life movement are women and pregnancy crisis centers led by women.

 

[JaySecrets]

Not murder. The Torah is very clear on this. See Exodus:21-23.

Exodus what chapter, verses 21-23? I do believe you are lifting that passage way out of context. In fact I can give you, if you like, several OT passages, including the Prophets and Psalms, that make it clear that Scripture says life begins at conception.

 

[adrina]

I have mentioned this earlier, but the most vocal and open pro-life people, those who most openly and vocally oppose abortion are women. And many of them women who have had abortions and know what it did to them, or women who have been the practitioners and doctors doing the abortions. Women who were key players in Planned Parenthood untill they got sick of the murder, the corruption, and the dishonesty. Yes, men can oppose abortion, but to play that down is like dismissing men who openly oppose the rape of women. Some things are simply vile and wrong.

But the biggest leaders in the pro-life movement are women and pregnancy crisis centers led by women.

Yes we know the anti-abortion movement has propped up and supported women who are vocally against abortion.

The reality is that the majority of women are pro-choice. And the majority of men are anti-abortion.

The overwhelming vast majority of women do not regret their abortions. The few who do are no reason to be against choice.

Your PP hysteria is just that - hysteria.

Abortion is not vile nor is it wrong.

You are yet another ignorant man talking about something you will never experience. And using women to justify it.

 

[JaySecrets]

What happened to your idea of even-sided discussion? Nothing here speaks to the consideration of a reasoned process. Your words are purely disparaging, triggered anger words, and very Trumpian words.

It's not rational.

Nope. My words are blunt, direct, accurate, and factual.

 

[ll74]

Nope. My words are blunt, direct, accurate, and factual.

Except you admitted they aren't and instead rely on the spirit of words (I. E. fetus = baby, abortion = murder)
You can't even be honest with yourself on what you do.

No law says abortion is murder.
No doctor says a fetus is a baby.

You confuse feelings with fact.
You confuse religion with requirement.

 

[JaySecrets]

Yes we know the anti-abortion movement has propped up and supported women who are vocally against abortion.

The reality is that the majority of women are pro-choice. And the majority of men are anti-abortion.

The overwhelming vast majority of women do not regret their abortions. The few who do are no reason to be against choice.

Your PP hysteria is just that - hysteria.

The reality is that you are yet another ignorant man talking about something you will never experience. And using women to justify it.

I gave an article in another thread that gave direct quotes from those who were part of the misinformation you just quoted, but later admitted their numbers and stats were lies propped up by a complicit media.

And when those who most vocally oppose and expose the horrible nature of the abortion industry are those who used to be part of it, you might want to listen to what they have to say.

 

[JaySecrets]

Except you admitted they aren't and instead rely on the spirit of words (I. E. fetus = baby, abortion = murder)
You can't even be honest with yourself on what you do.

No law says abortion is murder.
No doctor says a fetus is a baby.

No law in Hitler's Germany said killing Jews was murder.
No law in Hitler's Germany said Jews were humans with human dignity.

I don't care what the "legal language" is there. I care what the factual language is, regardless of the way your heroes twisted legal language to justify their crimes against children.

 

[adrina]

I gave an article in another thread that gave direct quotes from those who were part of the misinformation you just quoted, but later admitted their numbers and stats were lies propped up by a complicit media.

And when those who most vocally oppose and expose the horrible nature of the abortion industry are those who used to be part of it, you might want to listen to what they have to say.

Yup. Sure.

I'm sure it was totally credible. Totally.

So, let me guess I'm supposed to chase down yet another bit of propaganda from yet another ignorant man who insists he is correct - regardless of never experiencing something which impacts women, families, children and society at very personal levels.

Fucksakes.