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For Those Who Might Be Wondering Why We Might Be In Ukraine

ll74 said:
You're ignoring my point. Can you explain how capitulation is better for Ukraine?
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Oh, it's not at all. You forget, I have been doing my best to support Ukraine right from the start, including fund raising and donations of equipment to the Ukraine military.

What we have is the unfortunate outcome of Biden successfully making Ukraine a partisan party political issue inside the US, thinking it would gain him votes. Quite the inverse happened. Yet another Biden fuckup, turning what should have been a bipartisan issue into part of an internal domestic political issue. Biden slow-rolling support is a part if this too. Elect a fuckup, expect fuckups.

I will keep my fingers cross that Trump goes realpolitik here, but I personally am not going to change my vote because of Ukraine. Biden can wear this one.
 
ChloeTzang said:
Oh, it's not at all. You forget, I have been doing my best to support Ukraine right from the start, including fund raising and donations of equipment to the Ukraine military.

What we have is the unfortunate outcome of Biden successfully making Ukraine a partisan party political issue inside the US, thinking it would gain him votes. Quite the inverse happened. Yet another Biden fuckup, turning what should have been a bipartisan issue into part of an internal domestic political issue. Biden slow-rolling support is a part if this too. Elect a fuckup, expect fuckups.

I will keep my fingers cross that Trump goes realpolitik here, but I personally am not going to change my vote because of Ukraine. Biden can wear this one.
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So you don't think 45's approach is good for Ukraine.

Thanks for confirming.
 
At any rate, such action as the U.S. is taking WRT Ukraine has nothing at all to do with Biden family business interests or bribes . . . which is what the OP was asserting . . . I think . . as nearly as I can make any sense of it.
 
Politruk said:
That's not his doing.
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That IS his doing. That you see it as not is about as partisan as it gets so it's not worth debating. Nothing I say will change your mind, and seeing as all the evidence points to Biden slow-rolling aid, and deliberately fucking around with military support, you're sure not changing mine. Biden screwed this one, but yeah, well, he screwed Afghanistan. He screwed the Middle East, he's screwing Taiwan....he has a record.
 
ll74 said:
So you don't think 45's approach is good for Ukraine.

Thanks for confirming.
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No. I do not, on the face of everything that's been said.

On the other hand, I suspect some of this is playing to the MAGA crowd and once he's in the White House, we'll see some fairly brutal realpolitik at work, as in, their will be some ultimatums and it won't all be directed at Zelensky either. If I was going to guess, I'd say a return to the 2022 borders and formalizing that, and if Putin doesn't play it'll be open the Lend Lease floodgates, with Ukraine borrowing the money to pay for whatever they want. I can hope, anyhow, because I don't think this war will end easily, no matter what Trump says, and there's enough support in the House and the Senate to push aid through - altho as Biden has demonstrated, you can provide all the funding you like but if the President doesn't use it your shit out of luck.
 
BUT on the other hand, Ukraine going nuclear changes a lot of things, and for myself, I would surmise that if Ukraine is openly stating this, they have nuclear weapons ready to go, along with the ballistic missiles they just tested. What people forget is, Ukraine was the industrial heartland of the old USSR, and guess where a lot of the old Soviet missile design and development, and, yes, nuclear work was done. Ukraine has a lot of nuclear scientists and old Soviet reactors, and during the Soviet times it was Ukraine that produced the rocket scientists and nuclear physicists - it was Ukrainians in large part that created the Soviet nuclear arsenal…. Ukraine will either get NATO or they will do EXACTLY what Israel did. Simply announce that they already have the nuclear capability and Russia (and anyone else that doesn’t like it) can go fuck themselves.

And THAT changes the equation.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1846957932623122487
 
ChloeTzang said:
That IS his doing. That you see it as not is about as partisan as it gets so it's not worth debating. Nothing I say will change your mind, and seeing as all the evidence points to Biden slow-rolling aid, and deliberately fucking around with military support, you're sure not changing mine. Biden screwed this one, but yeah, well, he screwed Afghanistan. He screwed the Middle East, he's screwing Taiwan....he has a record.
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Making Ukraine a partisan issue is not Biden's doing.

And it's not anybody else's doing, either. It is not a partisan issue. No American is going to give either candidate's Ukraine policy much weight in deciding how to vote.
 
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The Netherlands will be contributing €271 million for artillery shells for Ukraine. Artillery plays a vital role on a battlefield, and this contribution will help end russian artillery superiority.

1729243855265.png
 
Germany has provided a new military aid package for Ukraine. The package includes: 8 Leopard 1 A5 main battle tanks, 20 Marder infantry fighting vehicles, 6 Panzerhaubitze 2000 self-propelled howitzers, an IRIS system, and 24,000 rounds 155mm ammunition - about a weeks supply.

1729244048913.png
1729244079321.png
 
ChloeTzang said:
That IS his doing. That you see it as not is about as partisan as it gets so it's not worth debating. Nothing I say will change your mind, and seeing as all the evidence points to Biden slow-rolling aid, and deliberately fucking around with military support, you're sure not changing mine. Biden screwed this one, but yeah, well, he screwed Afghanistan. He screwed the Middle East, he's screwing Taiwan....he has a record.
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Chloe's posts when she sticks to factual reporting are interesting; when she strays into her opinions she reminds me of that seriously dumb kid we all knew in 5th grade. So a correction: Trump dishonourably surrendered to a group of stone age Pathan tribesmen in Afghanistan because he thought it would burnish his reputation at home. The exit from Afghanistan was a shambles. Both Trump and Biden screwed up in equal measure - blame both.

The Middle East is perfectly capable of screwing up on its own and especially with Netanyahu and the Clown in Iran calling the shots.

Too early to make a call on Taiwan but it's Trump that wants to destroy their IT industry.

Incidentally, something Chloe could opine on. Why on earth hasn't Lloyd Austin been sacked. He's clearly not up to the task of leading the band of geriatrics known as the Joint Chiefs.
 
colddiesel said:
Incidentally, something Chloe could opine on. Why on earth hasn't Lloyd Austin been sacked. He's clearly not up to the task of leading the band of geriatrics known as the Joint Chiefs.
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LOL. Most of the senior Generals are now political and even tho retired, Austin is no exception. Austin is there because he ticks off some politically correct boxes and is a Democrat stooge who'll follow the party line. I have no real opinions on him. Just another useless Democrat who's been promoted to his level of incompetence.
 
ChloeTzang said:
LOL. Russia is not communist. It's a kleptocracy and they want Ukraine so as to loot it's oil and gas and mineral resources.
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Not even that. It's a dictatorship and Putin -- not the oligarchy, just Putin personally -- wants to eliminate the political threat of a western-aligned democracy on the border.
 
Rightguide said:

James Comer: FBI Doc Alleges ‘Business Person from Ukraine’ Sent ‘Substantial Bribe’ to VP Biden​



WENDELL HUSEBØ7 Jun 2023

The FBI’s informant file of a $5 million bribery scheme allegedly linked to President Joe Biden concerns the family’s business deals in Ukraine, House Oversight Committee Chair James Comer (R-KY) revealed Monday.

In May, Comer and Sen. Chuck Grassley (R-IA) made bombshell claims after reviewing an FBI FD-1023 form that documented the informant’s allegations of an alleged bribery scheme involving an exchange of money for policy decisions between now-President Joe Biden and a foreign national. Comer disclosed the informant tip is dated June 30, 2020.

“Yes, it is Ukraine,” Comer told The Just the News. “This form 1023 involves a business person from Ukraine, who allegedly sent a bribe, a substantial bribe to then Vice President Joe Biden.”

The Biden family frequently visited Ukraine for its respective business. Then-Vice President Joe Biden served as the Obama administration’s Ukrainian “point person” on U.S. foreign policy. He visited Ukraine six times while serving as vice president.

More here: https://www.breitbart.com/politics/...m-ukraine-sent-substantial-bribe-to-vp-biden/

I said long ago there is good reason to believe that Joe Biden has been compromised by Ukraine and other countries.
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At any rate, it's got nothing to do with this.
 
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