For Those Who Might Be Wondering Why We Might Be In Ukraine

[RandyRebecca]

Exclusive: American Citizen Journalist Sitting in Ukraine Prison, State Dept. Confirms, as Biden Begs for Billions More to Protect Ukrainian ‘Freedom​

That's another thing. Biden is apparently so concerned about Gonzalo Lira, yet wants Julian Assange to rot in a British prison and be extradited to the US face 175(?) years in prison! Assange isn't even a US citizen. What was his crime? Exposing US war crimes in Iraq and Afghanistan, where US soldiers mowed down civilians and laughed.

 

[Lazaran]

•
"Becky" doesn’t seem to understand that RUSSIAN SEPARATISTS / PUPPETS in Ukraine are not legitimate "political parties".

If an entire "political party" in the US was found to be Mexican separatists / puppets, the party would not only be outlawed, but the members would be jailed or eliminated with extreme prejudice.

The MAGAt party is the closest thing to separatists / puppets in the US, and they recently fucked around and found out.

Especially Ashlii Babbitt.

*nods*

 

[Fuzzy1975]

Excuse me? Savior Trump, indeed

I don't support wars waged to enrich billionaires at our expense, nor the military-industrial complex who want to rule the world and treat people as collateral damage.

So who is the Billionaire waging this war. It sure isn't Zelensky....Putin, well I don't know if he's a Billionaire or not, but he's a got a lot more chance of enriching himself with this war then anybody on the West.

What democracy is in Ukraine? At least a dozen parties have been banned there since 2014, including the pre-coup ruling party The Party of Regions, and with the Communist Party having had its assets seized by the government.

It's their Democracy, keep your nose out of it, I don't see Ukraine sticking it's nose in America's.

Putin is only in Ukraine because the Biden administration pushed for it, with provocations, war games etc. near Russia's borders, with the US (under Bush Sr.'s administration) having told Gorbachev (i.e. lied) that NATO wouldn't go eastwards. Biden wanted to drive a wedge in between Russia and European countries in terms of trade.

Bullshit. Putin started this, Obama could have put a stop to it, and chickened out. Biden had no say at the time, he was Vice President, the most useless political office in the US Republic.

 

[Lazaran]

So who is the Billionaire waging this war. It sure isn't Zelensky....Putin, well I don't know if he's a Billionaire or not, but he's a got a lot more chance of enriching himself with this war then anybody on the West.

It's their Democracy, keep your nose out of it, I don't see Ukraine sticking it's nose in America's.

Bullshit. Putin started this, Obama could have put a stop to it, and chickened out. Biden had no say at the time, he was Vice President, the most useless political office in the US Republic.

The only point I disagree with is the suggestion that President Obama could or should have actively facilitated the liberation of Crimea at that moment in time.

Ukraine still had lingering mass corruption from its Russian / Soviet past, and it would have been an unreasonable proposition to commit US forces (it’s doubtful NATO members would have agreed to committing their forces) in a shooting war with Russian forces.

As the Ukrainians incrementally improved their anti-corruption efforts, they earned increasing trust and support from the US, the EU, and NATO.

Ironically, the forced resignation of Viktor Shokin was one example of the Ukrainians commitment to anti-corruption efforts that paved the way for additional US, EU, and NATO support.

The Ukrainians impressive resistance to the initial Russian invasion earned them another level of trust and support. - Their continued resistance and reclamation of territory earns them additional trust and support imho.



Slava Ukraini

 

[Tigersman]

Excuse me? Savior Trump, indeed

I don't support wars waged to enrich billionaires at our expense, nor the military-industrial complex who want to rule the world and treat people as collateral damage.


What democracy is in Ukraine? At least a dozen parties have been banned there since 2014, including the pre-coup ruling party The Party of Regions, and with the Communist Party having had its assets seized by the government. Putin is only in Ukraine because the Biden administration pushed for it, with provocations, war games etc. near Russia's borders, with the US (under Bush Sr.'s administration) having told Gorbachev (i.e. lied) that NATO wouldn't go eastwards. Biden wanted to drive a wedge in between Russia and European countries in terms of trade.

Biden wasn't even in office when Russia started amassing their troops and equipment along the Ukraine border. Trump was in office and didn't want military aid to reach Ukraine to make it easier for Russia to conquer Ukraine. Congress got in Trump's way over that.

 

[Fuzzy1975]

The only point I disagree with is the suggestion that President Obama could or should have actively facilitated the liberation of Crimea at that moment in time.

And that is fair point of discussion. After all none of us have/had a crystal ball to see the future.

Ukraine still had lingering mass corruption from its Russian / Soviet past, and it would have been an unreasonable proposition to commit US forces (it’s doubtful NATO members would have agreed to committing their forces) in a shooting war with Russian forces.

It wasn't a Nato thing. It goes back to the Budapest accord. The US did sign the agreement and in that agreement the US has an obligation to defend the border of Ukraine. So too did Russia. Obama IMHO needed to do more than just sabre rattle and sanction. I think if there had been an actual mobilisation, Putin would have back the fuck out, and let the rebels get whopped in Donbas and Crimea by the Ukrainians.

Again it's easy to use hindsight.

Slava Ukraini

Agreed!!

 

[Buffalogurl]

https://apnews.com/article/poland-ukraine-grain-russia-war-f14ca84b946b42821688d0d175cfa9e3
Apparently Ukraine is doing so well at smashing the Russians to dust that Poland will no longer arm Ukraine to focus on it's own defenses..... my humble commentary, (we most likely will see a victorious Ukrainian army in red Square by the end of the week)....... as more and more are sacrificed to the son of perdition.......

 

[Rightguide]

Where are you now that Ukrainians want to stand against an authoritarian aggressor who is shelling cities and killing civilians?

Oh that’s right, you’re MAGA, so fuck democracy.

You really don't get it do you? They've lost hundreds of thousands of dead and wounded. What we've given them has been all but destroyed. They don't have enough people to put into the field against the Russians who now have a massive advantage in men and material.

Go back to post 748. The NYTs times is reporting it was a Ukrainian missile that wiped out that marketplace full of civilians that some had tried to pin n the Russians.

My point is you aren't being told the truth. You're hearing one-sided war propaganda in order to support the efforts of the West. There's an old saying, "the first casualty of war is the truth." The truth, is Joe Biden and the West have lost this war, like Vietnam, they don't want to admit it.

The present battlefield environment presents little survivability for Ukrainian ground forces with no air superiority and no "combined arms" capability. There's a reason why artillery is called the King of Battle and the Russians have a 10 to 1 advantage in artillery. For every round fired by the Ukrainians, the Russians fire 8-10 in return. This is a rate of fire the West simply cannot match with its present inventories and production facilities. Can new production facilities be brought online? Yes, but it takes time the Ukrainians don't have. The Zelensky government is now lobbying Western governments to forcibly return Ukrainian males who had fled the country when the war began in order to throw them into the slaughter pens the Russians have constructed along their 800-kilometer defensive line in eastern Ukraine. There are reports out of Ukraine that men in their 50s-60s are being taken off the streets and put into uniform, so desperate is the manpower situation there. It tells a tale.

There is no democracy in Ukraine. Zelensky has banned national elections and all of his political opposition.

 

[Rightguide]

McCarthy Denied Zelenskyy's Wish to Address Congress​

By Mark Swanson | Thursday, 21 September 2023 10:50 AM EDT

House Speaker Kevin McCarthy, R-Calif., declined Ukraine President Volodymyr Zelenskyy's request to deliver a joint address to Congress, as he did last December, multiple outlets reported.

The New York Times first reported the denial Wednesday.

Zelenskyy is in Washington, D.C., in part, to beseech lawmakers for more aid in Ukraine's war against Russia.

Instead, McCarthy met with Zelenskyy privately along with House Minority Leader Hakeem Jeffries, D-N.Y., and other committee chairs and ranking members. Zelenskyy met with senators after that meeting.

McCarthy's denial, citing time constraints of a busy week, comes amid House Republicans' struggle to beat a Sept. 30 deadline to pass spending bills in order to prevent a government shutdown.

More here: https://www.newsmax.com/newsfront/k...elenskyy-joint-address/2023/09/21/id/1135367/

Looks like McCarthy has had enough of the Zelensky show as well.

 

[Rightguide]

That's another thing. Biden is apparently so concerned about Gonzalo Lira, yet wants Julian Assange to rot in a British prison and be extradited to the US face 175(?) years in prison! Assange isn't even a US citizen. What was his crime? Exposing US war crimes in Iraq and Afghanistan, where US soldiers mowed down civilians and laughed.

I don't think Biden gives a shit about Lira. He probably told Zelensky where he could find him since he was telling the truth about what was happening in Ukraine.

 

[Rightguide]

We get it Rightguide, you're scared. That makes you weak. You feel it's safer to appease Russia than to stand up for a stable geopolitical world. Appeasement didn't work for Joseph Kennedy and it won't work for you. it's time to grow a pair of balls and stand with the courageous. But you won't do that because you're scared. And weak.

I'm not scared or weak but I am humane and probably care more about those dead Ukrainians than you ever will. Tell you what Poindexter, If a couple of hundred thousand in the ground isn't enough for you, why don't you sneak out from behind your keyboard, buckle up, and get your puckered little butt over there and test those three-mile-wide minefields yourself?

 

[Rightguide]

Excuse me? Savior Trump, indeed

I don't support wars waged to enrich billionaires at our expense, nor the military-industrial complex who want to rule the world and treat people as collateral damage.


What democracy is in Ukraine? At least a dozen parties have been banned there since 2014, including the pre-coup ruling party The Party of Regions, and with the Communist Party having had its assets seized by the government. Putin is only in Ukraine because the Biden administration pushed for it, with provocations, war games etc. near Russia's borders, with the US (under Bush Sr.'s administration) having told Gorbachev (i.e. lied) that NATO wouldn't go eastwards. Biden wanted to drive a wedge in between Russia and European countries in terms of trade.

Careful Fuzzy will be along to lecture about all of the "Democracy" there is in the most corrupt country on Earth.

 

[ll74]

Careful Fuzzy will be along to lecture about all of the "Democracy" there is in the most corrupt country on Earth.

Ukraine isn't the most corrupt country on Earth.

 

[TJX]

Yup, you're scared. First it was what if Putin used nukes, then it was what about defending Taiwan and now it's what if Russia attacks UK or US. There is a real event happening and you're worried anout a bunch of what ifs. Putin was NEVER going to use nukes because he KNOWS what the response would be. Ground war in Ukraine vs naval battle defending Taiwan. Russia can't defeat Ukraine, how are they going to attack UK or US? Let me guess, they will capture Colorado using commercial planes. Your posts drip with fear.

 

[Bn2f]

RG: My point is you aren't being told the truth. You're hearing one-sided war propaganda in order to support the efforts of the West.

Translation: Please excuse the hand in ass and allow me for to disinform you how my fellow comrades are de victims of, how you say - western backed imperial aggression against the motherland.

 

[Rightguide]

Yup, you're scared. First it was what if Putin used nukes, then it was what about defending Taiwan and now it's what if Russia attacks UK or US. There is a real event happening and you're worried anout a bunch of what ifs. Putin was NEVER going to use nukes because he KNOWS what the response would be. Ground war in Ukraine vs naval battle defending Taiwan. Russia can't defeat Ukraine, how are they going to attack UK or US? Let me guess, they will capture Colorado using commercial planes. Your posts drip with fear.

Your posts "drip" with childish fantasy and pure ignorance. At least I have years of education and reliable sources to back up what I post. I find you completely uninformed and too illiterate on the subject to bother with. So you might as well head back to War Thunder and fantasize there.

 

[TJX]

Your posts "drip" with childish fantasy and pure ignorance. At least I have years of education and reliable sources to back up what I post. I find you completely uninformed and too illiterate on the subject to bother with. So you might as well head back to War Thunder and fantasize there.

LOL

 

[Bn2f]

RG: I have years of education and reliable sources to back up what I post.

Me:

 

[Rightguide]

Poland to stop providing weapons to Ukraine as dispute over grain imports intensifies​

by Mike Brest, Defense Reporter
September 21, 2023 11:35 AM
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/...ity/poland-stop-weapons-ukraine-grain-imports

Poland has seen the light in Ukraine and is now looking to rearming itself.

 

[RobDownSouth]

Major news from Ukraine this morning, Ukranian forces have punched several large holes in the heavily fortified southern flanks of the Russian military, rolling up Russian armor and artillery and clearing extensive minefields. Satellite images show Ukranian forces decimating southern Russian supply depots inside of Ukraine.

A bit surprisingly, this success was not trumpeted by Ukranian television, but was leaked by US military sources. Possibly because Zelensky is in New York addressing the UN?

Looks like it's going to be a long cold winter for Putin's soldiers.

 

[phrodeau]

There is no democracy in Ukraine. Zelensky has banned national elections and all of his political opposition.

That is a damned lie.

https://www.politico.eu/article/ukraine-war-democracy-dilemma-elections/

 

[Rightguide]

Major news from Ukraine this morning, Ukranian forces have punched several large holes in the heavily fortified southern flanks of the Russian military, rolling up Russian armor and artillery and clearing extensive minefields. Satellite images show Ukranian forces decimating southern Russian supply depots inside of Ukraine.

A bit surprisingly, this success was not trumpeted by Ukranian television, but was leaked by US military sources. Possibly because Zelensky is in New York addressing the UN?

Looks like it's going to be a long cold winter for Putin's soldiers.

That bullshit probably was leaked by our intel agencies on the orders of Joe Biden in order to put some false hope in the minds of the Congressmen who are going to be asked once again to cough up more billions to support Zelensky's lost cause. Show us a link to the story.

 

[Lazaran]

And that is fair point of discussion. After all none of us have/had a crystal ball to see the future.

It wasn't a Nato thing. It goes back to the Budapest accord. The US did sign the agreement and in that agreement the US has an obligation to defend the border of Ukraine. So too did Russia. Obama IMHO needed to do more than just sabre rattle and sanction. I think if there had been an actual mobilisation, Putin would have back the fuck out, and let the rebels get whopped in Donbas and Crimea by the Ukrainians.

Again it's easy to use hindsight.

Agreed!!

I guess what I was saying, is that the US (and, as a signatory of the Budapest Memorandum, the UK) would have likely been on their own, but even then, would have had to prosecute the liberation of a still corrupt Ukraine’s territory from NATO countries’ territory. And that means those NATO countries would have had to agree to the liberation of the still corrupt Ukraine, as their countries would certainly have come under attack if Russia didn’t back down and things escalated.

And I suspect things would have escalated, with Russia launching a low yield tactical Nuke into a fairly uninhabited area inside Ukraine to get the US, etc, to back down. And Russia would have claimed that President Obama directly intervening justified their actions.

And in regards to Russia’s latest invasion, President Biden faced the same issues. The US and the UK could not unilaterally declare and enforce a no-fly zone over Ukraine and commit forces stationed in NATO countries to the active effort.

Ultimately, this really is Ukraine’s fight (with assistance from western democracies), just like it was ultimately Afghanistan’s fight against the Taliban (with assistance from western democracies). - And the Ukrainians are currently acquitting themselves quite impressively compared to the Afghanis imho.



Slava Ukraini!!!

 

[Lazaran]

•
"Right"guide is a traitor and is giving aide and comfort to the enemy.



And this latest news will undoubtedly upset "Right"guide the Russian sympathizer.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/davida...ian-trenches-outside-verbove/?sh=574c3eb3447f

And not to brag, but that ^ article validates a post of mine in another thread that predicted how Ukraine would use advanced western tanks.

The key line from the article that validates my prediction:

“That helps to explain why 82nd Brigade crews have described their Challenger 2s as “snipers,” and why we’ve seen the 47th Brigade’s German-made Leopard 2A6s firing their main guns at high elevation, as though they were howitzers.”

Ukrainians are quite clever and resourceful warfighters, and have shown a remarkable ability to rapidly adapt and respond to various challenges.



Slava Ukrani!!!

 

[Rightguide]

•
"Right"guide is a traitor and is giving aide and comfort to the enemy.



And this latest news will undoubtedly upset "Right"guide the Russian sympathizer.

They have already lost dozens of western tanks in the war which has been widely documented. The above article presents nothing new except the normal ebb and flow of combat operations on the field. The operative paragraph in this article trying to sensationalize a relatively minor event is this one:

"It’s unclear how deeply the Ukrainian force penetrated Russian lines, and whether it stayed or retreated. But the breakthrough, even if it was brief, is bad news for Russian forces on the axis stretching from Robotyne—which the 82nd and adjacent brigades liberated in mid-August—through Tokmak toward Russian-occupied Melitopol, 50 miles to the south."

As always these articles never publish Ukrainian casualties or subsequent events. Normally the Russians have allowed Ukrainian forces to penetrate their security zone and then once in use their artillery to drop mines behind those forces which are then destroyed as they disengage or retreat. Tens of thousands of Ukrainians have been killed this way. It will make no difference in the outcome.

PS: You are a pathetic piece of shit. I give no aid or comfort to the Russians, there aren't any here. I do not sympathize with the Russians. I sympathize with the 14 million Ukrainians who have been forced to leave their country probably never to return, and the hundreds of thousands of dead and wounded Ukrainians who have been told by the Biden regime that they could prevail without negotiation, that they could harm Russia and topple Putin without being exterminated. This is our doing. We should have allowed Zelensky to negotiate when he wanted to in May of 2022 but Boris Johnson, carrying Biden's message, told him not to negotiate. Now after all of the death and destruction, we are quietly looking for a way out. It's a national disgrace and so are those who certified your education.