For Those Who Might Be Wondering Why We Might Be In Ukraine

[RandyRebecca]

Ukraine making their own choices is winning.

Like the delusion that they could drive Russia out of all the 2013 Ukrainian borders, including Crimea, when the Minsk Accords would have seen Ukraine keep control of almost all their territory except Crimea and parts of the Donbass?

The Biden administration and the Pentagon had even worse delusions, i.e. the idea that they could "isolate" a country (Russia) that is one sixth of the world's land and spans Europe, the Middle East and Far East Asia, and which has a land border with China, and with China in turn having a land border with India. China and India are the two most populous countries in the entire world, with China being the second biggest economy.

 

[ll74]

Like the delusion that they could drive Russia out of all the 2013 Ukrainian borders, including Crimea, when the Minsk Accords would have seen Ukraine keep control of almost all their territory except Crimea and parts of the Donbass?

The Biden administration and the Pentagon had even worse delusions, i.e. the idea that they could "isolate" a country (Russia) that is one sixth of the world's land and spans Europe, the Middle East and Far East Asia, and which has a land border with China, and with China in turn having a land border with India. China and India are the two most populous countries in the entire world, with China being the second biggest economy.

So you don't want Ukraine to make their own choices.

Got it.

 

[Fuzzy1975]

Like the delusion that they could drive Russia out of all the 2013 Ukrainian borders, including Crimea, when the Minsk Accords would have seen Ukraine keep control of almost all their territory except Crimea and parts of the Donbass?

The Biden administration and the Pentagon had even worse delusions, i.e. the idea that they could "isolate" a country (Russia) that is one sixth of the world's land and spans Europe, the Middle East and Far East Asia, and which has a land border with China, and with China in turn having a land border with India. China and India are the two most populous countries in the entire world, with China being the second biggest economy.

lol Russia is done, they are now a vassal to China. Regardless of if Ukraine removes Russia from it's rightful territory or not. Russia spent itself, it's economy is a false one, that will not last past fall of 2025.

Currently it is only the war economy driving it. Their exports have dropped by almost 60%,which means their access to foreign currency is also reduced. It's hard to pay for offshore products in Russian roubles.

But you keep on being you. You're very entertaining.

 

[LaValliere]

We know the testimony to it disappeared in the FBI for years before now. I'd be surprised if the informant lives much longer or if the tapes will ever see the light of day. Congress is only reacting to the "evidence of their existence" that has been unsuccessfully covered up by Chris Wray. The FBI may very well have already obtained and destroyed those tapes.

I’m going to start reasoning like our thread host:

“Donald Trump is literally a Russian spy running an extremely long con,” I’ll say.

“But there’s no evidence of that!” one might reply.

“Isn’t it suspicious how all the evidence of it disappeared?” I’ll smugly retort.

 

[RandyRebecca]

So you don't want Ukraine to make their own choices.

I'm saying that Ukraine made stupid choices. They could have kept nearly all their land, and are now nearly landlocked, because of what Biden, Blinken, Stoltenberg, Johnson, or whoever, had been telling them. Silly Ukrainians. As for the US rulers, it shows how they use and discard smaller nations like pawns on a chess board and using American taxpayer dollars to that effect.

lol Russia is done, they are now a vassal to China.

The US imperialist strategy was to divide Russia from China, not drive them together.

Regardless of if Ukraine removes Russia from it's rightful territory or not. Russia spent itself, it's economy is a false one, that will not last past fall of 2025.

How is it in freefall? Russia's economy has been growing in 2023:

https://www.reuters.com/markets/europe/russias-q3-gdp-growth-confirmed-55-rosstat-2023-12-13/

 

[Fuzzy1975]

The US imperialist strategy was to divide Russia from China, not drive them together.

LOL sure, whatever fantasy you wish to believe.

How is it in freefall? Russia's economy has been growing in 2023:

https://www.reuters.com/markets/europe/russias-q3-gdp-growth-confirmed-55-rosstat-2023-12-13/

AS I said, War Economy. The current model is not sustainable. Since you feel Reuters is knowledgeable and factual, here what they say about 2024.

https://www.reuters.com/markets/eur...w-2024-high-interest-rates-linger-2023-12-22/

 

[ll74]

I'm saying that Ukraine made stupid choices. They could have kept nearly all their land, and are now nearly landlocked, because of what Biden, Blinken, Stoltenberg, Johnson, or whoever, had been telling them. Silly Ukrainians. As for the US rulers, it shows how they use and discard smaller nations like pawns on a chess board and using American taxpayer dollars to that effect.

You dont want Ukraine to make their own decision. Got it.

 

[Lazaran]

I'm saying that Ukraine made stupid choices. They could have kept nearly all their land, and are now nearly landlocked, because of what Biden, Blinken, Stoltenberg, Johnson, or whoever, had been telling them. Silly Ukrainians. As for the US rulers, it shows how they use and discard smaller nations like pawns on a chess board and using American taxpayer dollars to that effect.


The US imperialist strategy was to divide Russia from China, not drive them together.


How is it in freefall? Russia's economy has been growing in 2023:

https://www.reuters.com/markets/europe/russias-q3-gdp-growth-confirmed-55-rosstat-2023-12-13/

I’m going to explain this to you only once:

1) Putin / Russia interfered with the 2016 election to get their orange puppet elected.

2) The orange puppet proceeded to do Putin’s / Russia’s bidding and drove China (and Iran) into Russia’s arms - China, by imposing the tariffs that led to the Chinese retaliation of seeking grain from Russia: (Iran, by killing the JCPOA, and assassinating Soleimani.)

3) Once the grain deals were made between Russia and China, Ukraine was an obvious target of Putin / Russia. (The discovery of oil and gas reserves off Ukraines southern coast also made them a target.)

See here:

https://foreignpolicy.com/2022/04/2...urces-energy-oil-gas-commodities-agriculture/



Side note:

The orange puppet is a traitor, and is not "America" / "American".



Side side note:

The orange puppet also moved the U.S.. embassy in Israel to Jerusalem. I’m sure that had nothing to do with the Hamas animal’s October 7th attack on Israel either.



Also:

You, "Becky", are partly responsible for everything that is happening, because you and your ilk didn’t vote for Hillary Clinton in 2016, and thus, you allowed Putin / Russia to execute / implement their nefarious plan, using the orange puppet as their agent.



Own your failure and responsibility “Becky".



President Biden is currently trying to undo the orange puppet’s damage, but the orange puppet has traitorous operatives in congress that ultimately answer to Putin as well - hence, the blocking of funds for Ukraine.



Hope ALL of that ^helps.



“Becky"

 

[Lazaran]

I’m going to explain this to you only once:

1) Putin / Russia interfered with the 2016 election to get their orange puppet elected.

2) The orange puppet proceeded to do Putin’s / Russia’s bidding and drove China (and Iran) into Russia’s arms - China, by imposing the tariffs that led to the Chinese retaliation of seeking grain from Russia: (Iran, by killing the JCPOA, and assassinating Soleimani.)

3) Once the grain deals were made between Russia and China, Ukraine was an obvious target of Putin / Russia. (The discovery of oil and gas reserves off Ukraines southern coast also made them a target.)

See here:

https://foreignpolicy.com/2022/04/2...urces-energy-oil-gas-commodities-agriculture/



Side note:

The orange puppet is a traitor, and is not "America” / “American”.



Side side note:

The orange puppet also moved the U.S.. embassy in Israel to Jerusalem. I’m sure that had nothing to do with the Hamas animal’s October 7th attack on Israel either.



Also:

You, "Becky", are partly responsible for everything that is happening, because you and your ilk didn’t vote for Hillary Clinton in 2016, and thus, you allowed Putin / Russia to execute / implement their nefarious plan, using the orange puppet as their agent.



Own your failure and responsibility “Becky".



President Biden is currently trying to undo the orange puppet’s damage, but the orange puppet has traitorous operatives in congress that ultimately answer to Putin as well - hence, the blocking of funds for Ukraine.



Hope ALL of that ^helps.



“Becky"

The “Ukrainians” probably didn’t intend to destroy their country so US weapons manufacturers could profit… and so America’s leaders could enjoy fantasies of NATO weapons sitting so close to Moscow.

But the puppet we put in power was into it because while Ukrainians were getting dead, he was getting rich. It’s good to be America’s bitch… until it isn’t. He’s probably realizing now that he has a tiger by the tail and no good way to let go.

He’s not the first. Hopefully he’ll be the last.

kucked_a_lot obviously needed it explained to them as well.



kucked_a_lot

 

[Rightguide]

https://oversightdemocrats.house.gov/sites/democrats.oversight.house.gov/files/2024-01-04.COA DEMS - Mazars Report.pdf

That report was totally refuted by Committee Republicans during the hearing last week. In addition, the money was generated by long-established legitimate Trump businesses that were operating before him being elected President. So there is a big "legal" difference foreign money going to a Trump family business that produced goods and services both here and abroad while he was in office is not the same as Joe Biden's bribery problem of having 20 LLCs that produce nothing for sale except Joe's influence. However, there is this in your favorite pro-Biden Trump-hating media the WaPo:

There’s new evidence of foreign money going to a president: Trump​

Analysis by Philip Bump
National columnist
January 4, 2024 at 2:57 p.m. EST

On Thursday, members of the Oversight Committee finally offered actual concrete evidence of a president benefiting from an influx of foreign money. This isn’t particularly useful for the Republican impeachment effort, though: The president at issue was Donald Trump.

Much further down the page...

"What isn’t demonstrated — and probably can’t be — is how much of this money went directly to Trump or other members of his family. Unlike the allegations involving Hunter Biden, though, there is an obvious, direct path for the money to have gone from Trump Organization properties to Donald Trump, the company’s owner.:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2024/01/04/trump-foreign-money/

 

[Rightguide]

I’m going to start reasoning like our thread host:

“Donald Trump is literally a Russian spy running an extremely long con,” I’ll say.

“But there’s no evidence of that!” one might reply.

“Isn’t it suspicious how all the evidence of it disappeared?” I’ll smugly retort.

That is an ignorant retort. The evidence of the Russia collusion lie has not disappeared it's completely laid out as such in the Mueller Report and the Durham Report, read them.

 

[Lazaran]

Much further down the page...

“Unlike the allegations involving Hunter Biden, though, there is an obvious, direct path for the money to have gone from Trump Organization properties to Donald Trump, the company’s owner.:”

^
“Right”guide once again demonstrates their complete lack of reading comprehension.



"Right"guide

 

[Fuzzy1975]

Durham

Durham......lmfao Next you'll be digging up Horowitz........*chuckles*

Like the FBI telling Horowitz the predication of their initial investigation into the Trump Campaign was properly predicated...because they told him it was. He found no evidence to the contrary. I predict Durham will however as the Genesis for it was outside the purview and authority of the IG.

 

[Lazaran]

Durham......lmfao Next you'll be digging up Horowitz........*chuckles*

The Durham investigation, per reality and the facts:

“After 31⁄2 years of investigation and prosecutions, Durham had secured one guilty plea and a probation sentence for a charge unrelated to the origins of the Russia investigation, and two unsuccessful trial prosecutions. Durham alleged at the two trials that the FBI had been deceived by the defendants.”



Meanwhile:

The Mueller investigation, per reality and the facts:

“The investigation resulted in charges against 34 individuals and 3 companies, 8 guilty pleas, and a conviction at trial. The report did not reach a conclusion about possible obstruction of justice by Trump, citing a Justice Department guideline that prohibits the federal indictment of a sitting president.”



"Right"guide consistently / constantly gets everything wrong.

*nods*

 

[RandyRebecca]

The “Ukrainians” probably didn’t intend to destroy their country so US weapons manufacturers could profit… and so America’s leaders could enjoy fantasies of NATO weapons sitting so close to Moscow.

But the puppet we put in power was into it because while Ukrainians were getting dead, he was getting rich. It’s good to be America’s bitch… until it isn’t. He’s probably realizing now that he has a tiger by the tail and no good way to let go.

He’s not the first. Hopefully he’ll be the last.

The late Henry Kissinger once said "To be an enemy of America is dangerous, but to be its friend is fatal".

 

[Lazaran]

The late Henry Kissinger once said "To be an enemy of America is dangerous, but to be its friend is fatal".

^
“Becky” is ALWAYS either lying or taking what people say out of context.

That Kissinger comment is a perfect example.



"Becky"

 

[RandyRebecca]

LOL sure, whatever fantasy you wish to believe.

You seriously think that the US strategy was to drive Russia and China closer together?

^
“Becky” is ALWAYS either lying or taking what people say out of context.

That Kissinger comment is a perfect example.

"Becky"

What Kissinger said was correct. The Ukrainian authorities should have heeded his words, but were instead drunk on anti-Russian passions and rhetoric, as they had been ever since the 2014 Euromaidan coup and their attempted rewriting of history. The Biden administration urged them on with delusions of total victory over Russia, and now the US doesn't like the situation and is more concerned with Israel and Yemen.

 

[Fuzzy1975]

You seriously think that the US strategy was to drive Russia and China closer together?

I'm not in the administrations inner circle, so I have no idea what the strategy is, and neither do you. The same as I'm not in the Chinese inner circle, but I've got a feeling Xi's been the master chess player with Russia, and the move closer between the two has little if next to nothing on the USA's strategy in Europe.

Do you fail to see how Xi could have been in the background on this, pushing Putin to move on Ukraine? Look at the benefits, China has gained, cheap oil, direct and indirect military sales. Diminished a world stage rival, both politically and militarily so they are not a threat and still looking like the "good friend" the whole time.

 

[LLCox]

The US is and has been sending thirty year old equipment to the Ukes except for two patriot missile batteries. This is equipment that was slated for destruction or to be given to our allies. While the US has been sending old stuff Russia has drained it military to the point of buying from Iran and North Korea. I call that a win.

 

[LLCox]

You seem to think sending "old equipment" to Ukraine means it's free. It isn't. That's why they keep pushing for more money to be allocated for Ukraine. In theory, they send an "old bullet" from existing inventory to Ukraine... and buy a shiny new one to put back in inventory.

Of course, America has been at war for 20 years... so how can we have so many "old bullets"?

Most likely the sociopaths who run the government... and the Pentagon stooges who absolutely, positively, cannot pass a financial audit... are lying again.

When you hear hoofbeats (them talking) think horse (lies) not zebra (truth).

The US STILL stores spare crystals for old radios. Artillery shells are the only shortage and the production rate has now tripled.

The money is said to be for humanitarian aid... and pilferage and Mrs. Zelensky's new tits.

 

[Lazaran]

I'm not in the administrations inner circle, so I have no idea what the strategy is, and neither do you. The same as I'm not in the Chinese inner circle, but I've got a feeling Xi's been the master chess player with Russia, and the move closer between the two has little if next to nothing on the USA's strategy in Europe.

Do you fail to see how Xi could have been in the background on this, pushing Putin to move on Ukraine? Look at the benefits, China has gained, cheap oil, direct and indirect military sales. Diminished a world stage rival, both politically and militarily so they are not a threat and still looking like the "good friend" the whole time.

This is / was ALL a power play by Putin / Russia.

See:

Post # 1,434 in this thread.

The MAJOR miscalculation by Putin / Russia, is their belief that the corrupt orange traitor would win a second term, and that the Ukrainians would be so formidable in their defense of their sovereignty.

The cost benefit analysis for Russia is changing daily: The successful passage of a $60 billion funding package for Ukraine from the U.S., coupled with the recent U.K. funding / defense agreement, and the pending EU funding / defense agreement will likely change Putin’s / Russia’s calculus in a dramatic way.



Side note:

I suspect Ukraine could sabotage oil transfers from Russia to China, etc, at any time they want, which should give Putin, Xi, Modi, Kim, etc, pause in their clandestine dreams of world domination.

See also:

The Ukrainian sabotage of rails and tunnels in eastern Russia.



Slava Ukraini!!!

 

[Fuzzy1975]

This is / was ALL a power play by Putin / Russia.

See:

Post # 1,434 in this thread.

The MAJOR miscalculation by Putin / Russia, is their belief that the corrupt orange traitor would win a second term, and that the Ukrainians would be so formidable in their defense of their sovereignty.

I'm not doubting Putin's initial motive. What I am saying is after three days Xi (who I'm sure knew and gave his blessing) could see the "plan" was not going according to Putin's plan. At that time I am sure he started to calculate how he could turn this to his advantage.

 

[Lazaran]

I'm not doubting Putin's initial motive. What I am saying is after three days Xi (who I'm sure knew and gave his blessing) could see the "plan" was not going according to Putin's plan. At that time I am sure he started to calculate how he could turn this to his advantage.

I question whether Xi “knew and gave his blessings”, but it’s possible…



And that ^ would still be secondary to Putin’s initial move of getting his corrupt orange traitor puppet elected, and then having that orange POS impose provocative tariffs on China that would undoubtedly / inevitably lead to Xi retaliating by seeking grain from elsewhere than the U.S. - Enter Russia to supply that grain. - And cue Russia’s invasion of Ukraine to secure a massive supply of grain to meet China’s grain orders.



Ultimately, Putin / Russia initiated this geopolitically and economically disastrous chain of events on the world. And Putin’s corrupt orange traitor puppet was an agent of that disastrous chain of events.



SAD!!!

 

[Fuzzy1975]

I question whether Xi “knew and gave his blessings”, but it’s possible…

They had an in person meeting days before the invasion. I have no doubt that a discussion on Ukraine came up. Did Xi give his blessing,I can't say for sure, but the Chinese messaging after seems to show he knew.

And that ^ would still be secondary to Putin’s initial move of getting his corrupt orange traitor puppet elected, and then having that orange POS impose provocative tariffs on China that would undoubtedly / inevitably lead to Xi retaliating by seeking grain from elsewhere than the U.S. - Enter Russia to supply that grain. - And cue Russia’s invasion of Ukraine to secure a massive supply of grain to meet China’s grain orders.



Ultimately, Putin / Russia initiated this geopolitically and economically disastrous chain of events on the world. And Putin’s corrupt orange traitor puppet was an agent of that disastrous chain of events.



SAD!!!

 

[Lazaran]

They had an in person meeting days before the invasion. I have no doubt that a discussion on Ukraine came up. Did Xi give his blessing,I can't say for sure, but the Chinese messaging after seems to show he knew.

Yeah, a few days before the invasion EVERYBODY knew Putin was invading.



I don’t remember Xi having a meeting with Putin right before the invasion, but I do remember a meeting shortly after the invasion where Putin and Xi Jinping FURTHER disgraced themselves and their nations.



What isn’t up for debate, is Putin’s successful efforts to elect his orange puppet in 2016, and the subsequent tariffs the orange puppet placed on China that sent Xi Jinping rushing into the arms of Putin for grain orders.



Putin’s failed efforts to re-elect his orange puppet in 2020, Ukraine’s vast stores of grain, and the damaging effects to the U.S. / World economy an invasion of Ukraine would have right before the 2022 U.S. midterms and other major elections around the globe, made an invasion of Ukraine by Russia inevitable, imho.



The most outrageous result / outcome after Putin’s heinous actions, would be an explosion of global authoritarianism and a betrayal of Ukraine by the United States - and yet both of those things have a decent chance of occurring.