For Those Who Might Be Wondering Why We Might Be In Ukraine

[Fuzzy1975]

Yeah, a few days before the invasion EVERYBODY knew Putin was invading.

Putin and Xi met face to face on Jan 18th and Feb 4th 2022. They also met after, on March 23rd.

 

[ll74]

A-50 AWACS: Ukraine Claims Downing Russia’s Most Prized Aircraft; What Makes It A ‘Big Kill’ For Ukraine?​

 

[ll74]

It’s unlikely the Ukrainians did that by themselves. It was probably a new weapon… or maybe direct assistance… from the US.

Step by step we are doing our best to provoke Russia into doing something that will justify a direct NATO attack.

But why?

There is no reason we have to be Russia’s enemy.

Why do we insist on it?

Why is it unlikely? Be specific.

Russia continues to be the antithesis of representative government and democracy.

 

[Lazaran]

Putin and Xi met face to face on Jan 18th and Feb 4th 2022. They also met after, on March 23rd.

I couldn’t find mention of the January meeting, but the meeting at the Beijing Olympics did spark my memory:

I found an article that I had previously read, where it is noted that China had good relations with Ukraine as part of the Belt and Road Initiative and likely was conflicted about Russia’s apparent intentions to invade Ukraine.

President Biden warned on January 19th 2022 that Russia could / would invade Ukraine within a month’s time, so by the February 4th 2022 meeting between Putin and Xi, the discussion of Russia invading Ukraine undoubtedly came up between the two.

I got / get the impression you were / are suggesting that Xi knew well before President Biden’s warning that Russia would in fact invade Ukraine, and that China secretly supported the invasion.

That ^ IS a possibility, which would make China complicit in the war crimes committed by Putin and Russia.

And I could see it happening after Putin’s corrupt orange puppet drove China closer to Russia with all the extreme anti-China rhetoric and hostile trade actions.

Ironically /ultimately, Xi / China probably doesn’t care one way or the other about Putin’s machinations to get China closer to Russia by employing the corrupt orange puppet, as long as China gets cheap oil and cheap grain, and has support for their efforts to dominate the Indo-Pacific, etc.

*nods*

 

[ll74]

Ukrainian Crews Set A Complex Missile Trap For Russia’s Best Radar Plane​

 

[Lazaran]

RussiaGuide has left the chat (has ran away from their own thread).

I wonder why???



We

Know

Why



RussiaGuide



Side note:

"republican" traitors in congress, loyal to Putin’s corrupt orange puppet, are blocking the aid needed by Ukraine to dramatically change the trajectory of the war in Ukraine’s favor.

JFC

SAD!!!

 

[RandyRebecca]

It’s unlikely the Ukrainians did that by themselves. It was probably a new weapon… or maybe direct assistance… from the US.

Step by step we are doing our best to provoke Russia into doing something that will justify a direct NATO attack.

But why?

There is no reason we have to be Russia’s enemy.

Why do we insist on it?

Desperation to save Genocide Joe with a "rally around the flag" effect.

 

[Philthy_Phil]

The title of this thread pisses me off every time I see it.

 

[Fuzzy1975]

The title of this thread pisses me off every time I see it.

Well wrongways wondering why "we" might be in Ukraine. I'm not in Ukraine, are you?

 

[ll74]

The title of this thread pisses me off every time I see it.

Using his BDS against him

 

[Philthy_Phil]

Well wrongways wondering why "we" might be in Ukraine. I'm not in Ukraine, are you?

Not at the moment.

Wasn't planning on going either.

 

[Fuzzy1975]

Not at the moment.

Wasn't planning on going either.

So now wrongway knows we're not in Ukraine. But I'm still confused by his grammar.

For Those Who Might Be Wondering Why We're Might Be In Ukraine​

He claims he's intellectual, but his grammar comes across as a grade 8 drop out.

 

[ll74]

Meanwhile, Russia attacks the people they were invading to defend.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1749753652821037430

 

[Rightguide]

For those in search of a foreign expert perspective on the events of the Ukraine war and a view of why the West is failing there, I highly recommend this article which is too long to post here. The author is a well know international expert:

"Former Colonel Jacques Baud was a member of the Swiss strategic intelligence service, where he was responsible for the Warsaw Pact states from 1993-2000. He installed demining programs in Chad, Sudan, Somalia and Ethiopia. Baud was responsible for policy and guidelines for peacekeeping operations at the UN in New York from 2009-2011, Director of the International Peace Support Training Center in Nairobi for the African Union, 2012-2017 Head of the Division for Preventing Small Arms Proliferation at NATO in Brussels. Baud is the author of several books about Intelligence, War and Terrorism."


The Russian Art of War: How the West Led Ukraine to Defeat
January 1, 2024 Jacques Baud

https://www.thepostil.com/author/jacques-baud/

 

[ll74]

Already laughing

"This is a detailed study of the two-year old conflict in which the West has brutally used the Ukrainians to pursue an old pipedream: the conquest of Russia."

Ukraine has never sought the conquest of Russia. Russia invaded Ukraine to conquer Ukraine.

It reads as a Russian propaganda piece.

 

[Rightguide]

Already laughing

Ukraine has never sought the conquest of Russia. Russia invaded Ukraine to conquer Ukraine.

It reads as a Russian propaganda piece.

You're hopelessly stunted.

 

[ll74]

You're hopelessly stunted.

Yes, I know you support Russia and their invasion.

 

[RandyRebecca]

Already laughing

Ukraine has never sought the conquest of Russia. Russia invaded Ukraine to conquer Ukraine.

It reads as a Russian propaganda piece.

Let me expose US mainstream media propaganda, more so Democratic media when it comes to Ukraine and Russia.

The Biden administration, and going back to the Obama years, has been using Ukraine as a proxy against Russia, using our taxes on it. For what, exactly? Not for the Ukrainians, that's for sure. The Ukrainians have been used like pawns on a chess board, and will likely be discarded soon as being of no further use to the US establishment compared to what Israel and the Zionist lobbies are, and it will likely happen faster if Trump gets back into the White House.

So please drop this pretense that support for Ukraine has got anything to do with well meaning intentions. They have fostered illusions in the Ukrainian authorities that they could get total victory over Russia, thrown money and just enough weapons at them to make it competitive, and will discard them. That's a lesson to smaller nations. As the late Henry Kissinger once said "To be an enemy of America is dangerous, but to be its friend is fatal".

Biden's total support for Israel has caused the Houthis to attack trading ships. Another blunder. The Houthis are very battle hardened. More of our federal tax dollars wasted, again.

 

[ll74]

Let me expose US mainstream media propaganda, more so Democratic media when it comes to Ukraine and Russia.

The Biden administration, and going back to the Obama years, has been using Ukraine as a proxy against Russia, using our taxes on it. For what, exactly? Not for the Ukrainians, that's for sure. The Ukrainians have been used like pawns on a chess board, and will likely be discarded soon as being of no further use to the US establishment compared to what Israel and the Zionist lobbies are, and it will likely happen faster if Trump gets back into the White House.

So please drop this pretense that support for Ukraine has got anything to do with well meaning intentions. They have fostered illusions in the Ukrainian authorities that they could get total victory over Russia, thrown money and just enough weapons at them to make it competitive, and will discard them. That's a lesson to smaller nations. As the late Henry Kissinger once said "To be an enemy of America is dangerous, but to be its friend is fatal".

Biden's total support for Israel has caused the Houthis to attack trading ships. Another blunder. The Houthis are very battle hardened. More of our federal tax dollars wasted, again.

Yes, supporting countries who are invaded is a tough one...I get it. I dont support Russia's actions at all. Their reasoning is shit. Your support doesn't change that.

If Russia wanted peace, they'd seek it. Especially since they've reached the objectives both you and Reochy claim they wanted.

As for your pivot to Israel....just demonstrates you're grasping for straws.

 

[ShandyLeer]

Let me expose US mainstream media propaganda, more so Democratic media when it comes to Ukraine and Russia.

The Biden administration, and going back to the Obama years, has been using Ukraine as a proxy against Russia, using our taxes on it. For what, exactly? Not for the Ukrainians, that's for sure. The Ukrainians have been used like pawns on a chess board, and will likely be discarded soon as being of no further use to the US establishment compared to what Israel and the Zionist lobbies are, and it will likely happen faster if Trump gets back into the White House.

So please drop this pretense that support for Ukraine has got anything to do with well meaning intentions. They have fostered illusions in the Ukrainian authorities that they could get total victory over Russia, thrown money and just enough weapons at them to make it competitive, and will discard them. That's a lesson to smaller nations. As the late Henry Kissinger once said "To be an enemy of America is dangerous, but to be its friend is fatal".

Biden's total support for Israel has caused the Houthis to attack trading ships. Another blunder. The Houthis are very battle hardened. More of our federal tax dollars wasted, again.

US status in the world heading downhill rapidly if the Russians are handed a win.

Cant really argue with your analysis, but the Houthis - acting on directions from Iran - have acted to effect western trade and economies. They’ve launched countless attacks.

Their capability to keep firing missiles at civilian shipping - which I assume you deplore - is easy for the US to fuck up. If they don’t quit then the attacks on them and their capacity to fight will step up.

 

[RandyRebecca]

Yes, supporting countries who are invaded is a tough one...I get it. I dont support Russia's actions at all. Their reasoning is shit. Your support doesn't change that.

I said the truth. It's not my fault if other people can't handle it and can't see through the propaganda of American mainstream, billionaire owned, media.

If Russia wanted peace, they'd seek it.

Remember the Minsk Accords? Under those, Russia would keep Crimea, Ukraine would keep the rest of its territory in return for no more attacks on ethnic Russians in the Donbass. Ukraine's government ignored it, carried on with regular bombardment of the Donbass, continued whipping up tensions near Russia's borders, encouraged by the US, Britain and others. Those encouragements also happened in March-April 2022 when a Russian-Ukrainian peace deal looked in the making. Boris Johnson, the British Prime Minister, famously went to Kiev to tell Zelensky not to accept any Russian peace deal. The result of that is that Ukraine has now lost all of its coastal territory east of the Dnieper river, to Russia.

Especially since they've reached the objectives both you and Reochy claim they wanted.

They haven't. Ideally for the Russians, assuming there's no peace deal, at this point they would want 100% of the Donbass out of Ukrainian hands, to landlock Ukraine and thus have territory running from Russia proper all the way to Transnistria/Moldova, and to occupy land in the north east of Ukraine up to the city of Kharkov. The rest of Ukraine, and its neonazis, they will leave to the EU to sort out as the financial crisis inside Ukraine (which would then be landlocked) deepens further.

As for your pivot to Israel....just demonstrates you're grasping for straws.

No, I was expanding on Biden's wider tendencies to always getting us involved in new wars that cost billions in taxpayer dollars, and no aims are ever achieved anyway, except profits for the arms companies.

 

[ll74]

I said the truth. It's not my fault if other people can't handle it and can't see through the propaganda of American mainstream, billionaire owned, media.

Facts are far from your version of truth.

Remember the Minsk Accords? Under those, Russia would keep Crimea, Ukraine would keep the rest of its territory in return for no more attacks on ethnic Russians in the Donbass. Ukraine's government ignored it, carried on with regular bombardment of the Donbass, continued whipping up tensions near Russia's borders, encouraged by the US, Britain and others. Those encouragements also happened in March-April 2022 when a Russian-Ukrainian peace deal looked in the making. Boris Johnson, the British Prime Minister, famously went to Kiev to tell Zelensky not to accept any Russian peace deal. The result of that is that Ukraine has now lost all of its coastal territory east of the Dnieper river, to Russia.

Yes, we've discussed this before and you were full of this then as well.

They haven't. Ideally for the Russians, assuming there's no peace deal, at this point they would want 100% of the Donbass out of Ukrainian hands, to landlock Ukraine and thus have territory running from Russia proper all the way to Transnistria/Moldova, and to occupy land in the north east of Ukraine up to the city of Kharkov. The rest of Ukraine, and its neonazis, they will leave to the EU to sort out as the financial crisis inside Ukraine (which would then be landlocked) deepens further.

They have. They wanted all of Ukraine, when they were denied, they wanted port access...they have it.

No, I was expanding on Biden's wider tendencies to always getting us involved in new wars that cost billions in taxpayer dollars, and no aims are ever achieved anyway, except profits for the arms companies.

Don't give a shit about your opinion of most things, especially Biden.

 

[ShandyLeer]

I said the truth. It's not my fault if other people can't handle it and can't see through the propaganda of American mainstream, billionaire owned, media.


Remember the Minsk Accords? Under those, Russia would keep Crimea, Ukraine would keep the rest of its territory in return for no more attacks on ethnic Russians in the Donbass. Ukraine's government ignored it, carried on with regular bombardment of the Donbass, continued whipping up tensions near Russia's borders, encouraged by the US, Britain and others. Those encouragements also happened in March-April 2022 when a Russian-Ukrainian peace deal looked in the making. Boris Johnson, the British Prime Minister, famously went to Kiev to tell Zelensky not to accept any Russian peace deal. The result of that is that Ukraine has now lost all of its coastal territory east of the Dnieper river, to Russia.


They haven't. Ideally for the Russians, assuming there's no peace deal, at this point they would want 100% of the Donbass out of Ukrainian hands, to landlock Ukraine and thus have territory running from Russia proper all the way to Transnistria/Moldova, and to occupy land in the north east of Ukraine up to the city of Kharkov. The rest of Ukraine, and its neonazis, they will leave to the EU to sort out as the financial crisis inside Ukraine (which would then be landlocked) deepens further.


No, I was expanding on Biden's wider tendencies to always getting us involved in new wars that cost billions in taxpayer dollars, and no aims are ever achieved anyway, except profits for the arms companies.

This “Ukranian Nazis” line you keep pushing. You understand where that comes from, right ?

 

[ll74]

This “Ukranian Nazis” line you keep pushing. You understand where that comes from, right ?

Putins cock blocks rational thought.

 

[RandyRebecca]

US status in the world heading downhill rapidly if the Russians are handed a win.

For the US billionaires and military industrial complex? Good. They've been treating our federal taxes like it's their own money, and always making themselves richer at our expense. They are out of control and utterly deluded, and need bringing back to reality.

Cant really argue with your analysis, but the Houthis - acting on directions from Iran - have acted to effect western trade and economies. They’ve launched countless attacks.

The Houthis act on their own. They are Iranian allies, but not their playthings. They have been in a brutal war against the Saudis for years, including a famine.

Their capability to keep firing missiles at civilian shipping - which I assume you deplore

Why are they doing it? The Houthis say they are doing it to end the blockade of food, water and energy into Gaza. Biden is solidly behind Israel. This again shows that the US authorities don't care about ordinary people at all, just about profits, trade routes and spheres of influence for the ultra-rich, just as I always say.

is easy for the US to fuck up. If they don’t quit then the attacks on them and their capacity to fight will step up.

Got to protect those billionaire profits and the trade routes that bring in $$$$$, while they also wage a class war in the US by holding down workers' wages and breaking a rail strike.