Generational differences in perspective

[pink_silk_glove]

I don’t know why you bundled background, race, sex and gender into your argument as I didn’t mention any of those. Maybe your argument needed bolstering, only you will know.

But yes, I am implacably opposed to people getting sexual gratification through the traumatic suffering of others. And no it doesn’t matter if the suffering is real or not. The concept is morally bankrupt.

Talk about straw men.

 

[StillStunned]

I meant “will be” sorry for any offense (it has an ‘s’ BTW).

Emily

We "will" all be Americans? I take double offence (with a C) at that!

 

[ElectricBlue]

I meant “will be” sorry for any offense (it has an ‘s’ BTW).

Emily

Only in America, maybe Canada. English English spells it offence, like defence, pretence, and probably a whole bunch of other ences where Americans have enses.

How do you spell fence? Fense?

It's why we have dictionaries and the Atlantic and Pacific oceans .

 

[tenyari]

It's a question of making humor out of horrible things. Best reserved for things far enough in the past that no one living remembers them, or people who have a personal connection to them.

And yeah... I'll go there because it's very on point: A Hitler reference.

Mel Brooks makes a comedy about Hitler and it goes over one way. But if Arnold Schwarzenegger made the same film it likely wouldn't have the same... acceptance. And that isn't anything new. People commented about that very point that only a Jewish author could / should make that kind of film when Mel Brook's Springtime for Hitler movie came out in 1968 (from what I've read - I missed the movie premiere by 3 years). There've been a lot of comedic portrayals of Hitler since... but you'd still be hard pressed to find a comedy set in the gas chamber (unlike in the USA where we regularly put comedies, romances, etc in Plantations or the Wild West - our two genocides).

If the two of them made such a film together though, that might be a different story given that Arnold is a beloved comedic actor among his many other elements. But early in his career when he was only know as an Austrian body builder - that would have ended his career given that he's from the same country as the guy who's shaving razor broke halfway through...

Something like the Inquisition though - that's 500 years in the past, and it often shows up in jokes.

That said, this sort of thing can vary by topic.

 

[Kumquatqueen]

I may make other comments when I have time, but how many of the over-65s on this thread are female? I think all the usernames I recognise are male.

Whereas the younger generation is being represented by Em and Melissababy, then Bramblethorn and me pushing 50, then I think SimonDoom is a half generation older than me?

So we are likely seeing differences from experiences as different sexes, rather than age.

 

[HordHolm]

I may make other comments when I have time, but how many of the over-65s on this thread are female? I think all the usernames I recognise are male.

Whereas the younger generation is being represented by Em and Melissababy, then Bramblethorn and me pushing 50, then I think SimonDoom is a half generation older than me?

So we are likely seeing differences from experiences as different sexes, rather than age.

It's not just gender, though I agree there. There's also ethnicity to consider, as well as the aforementioned class status and geographical issues. And then they need to be intersected, too.

 

[EmilyMiller]

I may make other comments when I have time, but how many of the over-65s on this thread are female? I think all the usernames I recognise are male.

Whereas the younger generation is being represented by Em and Melissababy, then Bramblethorn and me pushing 50, then I think SimonDoom is a half generation older than me?

So we are likely seeing differences from experiences as different sexes, rather than age.

That’s a very reasonable observation.

Emily

 

[EmilyMiller]

It's not just gender, though I agree there. There's also ethnicity to consider, as well as the aforementioned class status and geographical issues. And then they need to be intersected, too.

Agreed - it’s a complicated question and just generation doesn’t capture it all.

Emily

 

[Kumquatqueen]

That’s a very reasonable observation.

Emily

I'm incredibly reasonable.

It's the rest of humanity who are a bunch of fuckwits.

I may need another coffee... [wanders over to appropriate coffee thread]

 

[EmilyMiller]

We "will" all be Americans? I take double offence (with a C) at that!

It’s OK, hun. This colonial is going to be the subject of a not so hostile take-over by the old country. Any kids will get that nice blue / black (whatever it is now) booklet that you obsess over so much; you know the one printed in France

Emily

 

[StillStunned]

It’s OK, hun. This colonial is going to be the subject of a not so hostile take-over by the old country. Any kids will get that nice blue / black (whatever it is now) booklet that you obsess over so much; you know the one printed in France

Emily

As long as you teach them how to spell "offence" properly. And "colour". And "grey". And "aluminium" (and yes, I know that the US way is the original spelling).

 

[HordHolm]

It’s OK, hun. This colonial is going to be the subject of a not so hostile take-over by the old country. Any kids will get that nice blue / black (whatever it is now) booklet that you obsess over so much; you know the one printed in France

Emily

Ha! Funny story about the passports. So... my elderly mother, despite having her only son living in the EU, and having a grandchild who is an EU citizen, voted for Brexit. I was somewhat... 'grumpy' about that decision. But hey, her choice and all that. Anyway...

Fast forward to 2019 and she comes to visit and stays in a hotel (my flat is too small). On her last night she goes back in the taxi to the hotel towards midnight and gets in the lift with A.N. Other guest. And the lift breaks down. Happily the man she's in the lift with is bilingual (English and the local language) and is able to get the attention of the hotel staff, and over the hour it takes for the fire brigade to come and get them out they chat and she finds out that... she, the staunch Brexiteer, is in the lift with a major representative of the company which has just, post Brexit, been awarded the contract to print UK passports outside the UK. Oh, how I laughed... (once it was clear that she was ok).

 

[EmilyMiller]

As long as you teach them how to spell "offence" properly. And "colour". And "grey". And "aluminium" (and yes, I know that the US way is the original spelling).

It’s odd isn’t it. So most of our -ize words are also the original spelling. As far as I know, the OED used to have organize as the correct spelling, while acknowledging organise. There is some Byzantine rule which was way too complicated for everyone to understand. And even here both advertise and advertize are acceptable. I think advertise is “correct” as far as you can say such a thing.

Was it six different ways that Shakespeare’s signature was spelled (spelt )? Standardized (ised) spelling is a very new thing.

Emily

 

[StillStunned]

Standardized (ised) spelling is a very new thing.

It's kept me in business for more than 20 years, so I'm not complaining.

 

[Kumquatqueen]

It’s OK, hun. This colonial is going to be the subject of a not so hostile take-over by the old country. Any kids will get that nice blue / black (whatever it is now) booklet that you obsess over so much; you know the one printed in France

Emily

I'll need a blue-black one next year. They're pretty much exactly the same colour as my current US one, which is darker than its predecessor. Is this a sign of us being merged yet further into the dominant world culture, or just it was cheaper? I suspect the latter.

I'll probably get some blingy wallet to keep it in, mostly because it's a bugger finding the black ones in the filing cabinet and they're demanded for so many things nowadays. The fact that driving licences are now a card is quite cool, though (old fart alert!) I still resent that my paper driving licence, valid until the 2040s, was not only cancelled and I was forced to get a photo card licence (as was everyone else in the country, but I had to pay £10 for the privilege! What happened to not making law changes retrospective, eh?

On the other hand, it should be one fuck of a lot easier to hire a car next time I'm in America, where their IT systems could never cope with an expiry date 30 years in the future even after the staff's heads got over the concept of a driver's license with no photo... I think 2.5 hours of persuasion and them hitting 'Computer Says No' was my record...

 

[EmilyMiller]

Ha! Funny story about the passports. So... my elderly mother, despite having her only son living in the EU, and having a grandchild who is an EU citizen, voted for Brexit. I was somewhat... 'grumpy' about that decision. But hey, her choice and all that. Anyway...

Fast forward to 2019 and she comes to visit and stays in a hotel (my flat is too small). On her last night she goes back in the taxi to the hotel towards midnight and gets in the lift with A.N. Other guest. And the lift breaks down. Happily the man she's in the lift with is bilingual (English and the local language) and is able to get the attention of the hotel staff, and over the hour it takes for the fire brigade to come and get them out they chat and she finds out that... she, the staunch Brexiteer, is in the lift with a major representative of the company which has just, post Brexit, been awarded the contract to print UK passports outside the UK. Oh, how I laughed... (once it was clear that she was ok).

That’s hilarious.

Emily

 

[Dearelliot]

What I recall from growing up in the 40s and 50s, was that it often depended on who said what and how it was said...the tone of voice and the situation at the time.
and I believe, generally speaking, the mocking comments didn't go over as well as a few people used to think they did.

 

[StillStunned]

The fact that driving licences are now a card is quite cool

For travel within the EU, I just use my ID card. So much easier than having to drag my passport around.

 

[Kumquatqueen]

It’s odd isn’t it. So most of our -ize words are also the original spelling. As far as I know, the OED used to have organize as the correct spelling, while acknowledging organise. There is some Byzantine rule which was way too complicated for everyone to understand. And even here both advertise and advertize are acceptable. I think advertise is “correct” as far as you can say such a thing.

Was it six different ways that Shakespeare’s signature was spelled (spelt )? Standardized (ised) spelling is a very new thing.

Emily

There's six attested examples of Shakie's signature,all with different spellings, yes. (Anyone visiting London briefly, I highly recommend the British Library, next door to St Pancras for thr Eurostar, which has a free exhibition of various treasures, including all the Folios and said signatures)

The rule is simple: if the word derived from Greek, with -ίζω, then it's -ize, if it didn't and only comes from Latin or somewhere else, it's -ise.

What do you mean, you didn't get a thorough grounding in Ancient Greek? Bless me, they let all hoi polloi onto this forum these days; what do they teach them at these schools?

 

[EmilyMiller]

There's six attested examples of Shakie's signature,all with different spellings, yes. (Anyone visiting London briefly, I highly recommend the British Library, next door to St Pancras for thr Eurostar, which has a free exhibition of various treasures, including all the Folios and said signatures)

The rule is simple: if the word derived from Greek, with -ίζω, then it's -ize, if it didn't and only comes from Latin or somewhere else, it's -ise.

What do you mean, you didn't get a thorough grounding in Ancient Greek? Bless me, they let all hoi polloi onto this forum these days; what do they teach them at these schools?

Latin
Greek

And the Latin was self-taught and mostly driven by trying to understand binomials

Emily

 

[StillStunned]

What do you mean, you didn't get a thorough grounding in Ancient Greek? Bless me, they let all hoi polloi onto this forum these days; what do they teach them at these schools?

It took me a long time to realise that my five years of Greek at school was intended mostly to teach me to feel smug.

 

[Kumquatqueen]

Ha! Funny story about the passports. So... my elderly mother, despite having her only son living in the EU, and having a grandchild who is an EU citizen, voted for Brexit.

My mother has lived in the UK for most of the last 50-odd years. Still not got a UK passport. So despite being in favour of Brexit and various odd things, she can't vote.

When the Windrush scandal hit (people who'd been here since the 50s when people from the Carribbean, West Africa and Indian subcontinent were invited because we needed more workers, and their children, were suddenly finding they were at risk of being deported because they couldn't prove they had a right to be here, and the relevant state orgs had lost loads of records), she was muttering that it was all their own fault, they should have looked after their paperwork better, etc. So I asked her what proof she had of her Leave to Remain status. No, marriage certificates and my birth certificate and her tax slips etc don't count.

Basically there's a smudged stamp on a passport that expired around 1973, which she and officials have often joked looks fake - it's unreadable. And she's only kept that expired passport because of hoarding tendencies - immigration staff have offered to throw it away for her, several times.

So now, whenever she's annoying, my dad threatens to steal that expired passport and get her deported!

 

[Kumquatqueen]

It took me a long time to realise that my five years of Greek at school was intended mostly to teach me to feel smug.

I didn't actually learn any more than the alphabet, which was crucial for first year Chemistry.

And that 'hoi polloi' means 'the people', so saying 'the hoi polloi' is incorrect and will make That Kind of Person feel very smug.

I did a couple years of Latin, but my old-fashioned primary school dinned loads of Latin abbreviations and phrases and English idioms into us, which is probably more useful. Apart from not being able to understand my graduation ceremony, I've really never felt the lack.

 

[TheRedChamber]

And that 'hoi polloi' means 'the people', so saying 'the hoi polloi' is incorrect and will make That Kind of Person feel very smug.

Didn't that come up on the forum recently? I noted that you had used the technically correct phrasing despite never having a classical education myself.

It's like when I get three questions in a row on QI and then realize its a repeat.

 

[EmilyMiller]

And that 'hoi polloi' means 'the people', so saying 'the hoi polloi' is incorrect and will make That Kind of Person feel very smug.

Opinions differ on this, but it is true that a certain type of person feels smug about this.

Emily