Grammer - A general rant
- Thread starter Ray Dario
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wildsweetone
i am what i am
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Ray,
is that AV growin in your backyard?
is that AV growin in your backyard?
SlickTony
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Now someone please tell me who Kelsey is and what they have to do with the misspelling of grammar? I think I must be missing something.
Well, now I know something about you I didn't before, i.e., you aren't into TV very much. Kelsey Grammer is the guy who played Frazier Crane, this psychiatrist in a prime time comedy, which was itself a spinoff of Cheers.
I don't watch TV very much, at least not a tithe as much as my husband and son do, they have the damn thing running every waking hour so that when they're both out of the house I make it a point not to, but even I caught a few episodes of that.
That's all right, I am one of the few people on the planet who have not watched (1) The Sopranos, (2) ANY of those reality TV shows.
Well, now I know something about you I didn't before, i.e., you aren't into TV very much. Kelsey Grammer is the guy who played Frazier Crane, this psychiatrist in a prime time comedy, which was itself a spinoff of Cheers.
I don't watch TV very much, at least not a tithe as much as my husband and son do, they have the damn thing running every waking hour so that when they're both out of the house I make it a point not to, but even I caught a few episodes of that.
That's all right, I am one of the few people on the planet who have not watched (1) The Sopranos, (2) ANY of those reality TV shows.
Ray Dario
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Re: Ray,
No WSO, I found the pic on the web. The site gave permission to use their images for Non-Commercial use so I snagged it.
I do think it's pretty funny.
And SlickTony, you're right. I don't even own a TV. Never had much use for it. There is always something I'd rather be doing than watching TV, but now I know who you are talking about, 'cause I've heard of Frazier. Haven't heard of "The Sopranos" though.
Ray
wildsweetone said:
No WSO, I found the pic on the web. The site gave permission to use their images for Non-Commercial use so I snagged it.
I do think it's pretty funny.
And SlickTony, you're right. I don't even own a TV. Never had much use for it. There is always something I'd rather be doing than watching TV, but now I know who you are talking about, 'cause I've heard of Frazier. Haven't heard of "The Sopranos" though.
Ray
Closet Desire
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Actually Ray...
...not everyone is astute as you about democracy (no it doesn't have much to do with grammar or grammer, Kelsey that is, but threads do sometimes wander a bit). Most Americans quite willingly believe they live in a democracy and don't know the difference which you pointed out. It's not the education system because I learned my US civics in Abilene Texas.
My dig about Bush has more to do with the dynamics of Cuba, Bush, and Carter. Cuba has been blocaded for decades over nothing more than idealism--there are other countries enjoying favoured trade status from the US with more appalling human rights issues. Carter may not have measured up in many people's eyes but he can't be faulted for the way he lives his beliefs. He has spent decades monitoring elections in developing nations. He commented some years ago that the American election process, at all levels, could not survive the same scrutiny and standards America insists of other countries. The presidential election bears that out in large degree. With that as a backdrop the gist of my comments were that Bush (he's the one whining--not me) wailed that the blocade would not be lifted until Cuba mandated democratic and human rights reforms.
I'm only suggesting that the US is no utopia when it comes to either democracy or human rights (hmmmm...interesting report from Amnesty International just a couple of days ago on that). Rather than holding up other countries to lofty ideals that exist only in the minds of certain individuals Bush should borrow from a "great American" and employ a certain amount of diffidence.
Oh...that was Ben Franklin. He knew a thing or two about freedom, democracy, and the American way (borrowed heavily from the French).
As Paul Harvey would say, "Good Day!"
...not everyone is astute as you about democracy (no it doesn't have much to do with grammar or grammer, Kelsey that is, but threads do sometimes wander a bit). Most Americans quite willingly believe they live in a democracy and don't know the difference which you pointed out. It's not the education system because I learned my US civics in Abilene Texas.
My dig about Bush has more to do with the dynamics of Cuba, Bush, and Carter. Cuba has been blocaded for decades over nothing more than idealism--there are other countries enjoying favoured trade status from the US with more appalling human rights issues. Carter may not have measured up in many people's eyes but he can't be faulted for the way he lives his beliefs. He has spent decades monitoring elections in developing nations. He commented some years ago that the American election process, at all levels, could not survive the same scrutiny and standards America insists of other countries. The presidential election bears that out in large degree. With that as a backdrop the gist of my comments were that Bush (he's the one whining--not me) wailed that the blocade would not be lifted until Cuba mandated democratic and human rights reforms.
I'm only suggesting that the US is no utopia when it comes to either democracy or human rights (hmmmm...interesting report from Amnesty International just a couple of days ago on that). Rather than holding up other countries to lofty ideals that exist only in the minds of certain individuals Bush should borrow from a "great American" and employ a certain amount of diffidence.
Oh...that was Ben Franklin. He knew a thing or two about freedom, democracy, and the American way (borrowed heavily from the French).
As Paul Harvey would say, "Good Day!"
Ray Dario
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Re: Actually Ray...
Well I don't see how you disagreeing with the Bush administrations policy toward Cuba invalidates the election or even the electorial process, but I'm going to move on because it's obvious that your beliefs won't change on this matter.
As far as suggesting that the US is no utopia... well literally you are right. We make mistakes. Carter made mistakes too, so did George Bush and EVERYONE knows about the veritable cornucopia of mistakes made by Clinton. Yes America makes mistakes, we are, however, still a great nation. In my opinion, the best in the world. Others may have differing opinions and their opinions are just as valid as mine.
I'm not going to argue the current Cuban crisis. Suffice it to say that the president of the U.S. has more information than the common man and perhaps his decision is based on that additional information. Perhaps not, but I'm willing to give him a little slack, especially on such an inconsequential matter as whether or not we should remove a blockade that existed during the Carter administration.
Now back to grammar (See I spelled it right
)
Ray
Closet Desire said:
Well I don't see how you disagreeing with the Bush administrations policy toward Cuba invalidates the election or even the electorial process, but I'm going to move on because it's obvious that your beliefs won't change on this matter.
As far as suggesting that the US is no utopia... well literally you are right. We make mistakes. Carter made mistakes too, so did George Bush and EVERYONE knows about the veritable cornucopia of mistakes made by Clinton. Yes America makes mistakes, we are, however, still a great nation. In my opinion, the best in the world. Others may have differing opinions and their opinions are just as valid as mine.
I'm not going to argue the current Cuban crisis. Suffice it to say that the president of the U.S. has more information than the common man and perhaps his decision is based on that additional information. Perhaps not, but I'm willing to give him a little slack, especially on such an inconsequential matter as whether or not we should remove a blockade that existed during the Carter administration.
Now back to grammar (See I spelled it right
)Ray
Closet Desire
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From a different perspective...
Sometimes it's useful to step back from something to get a clearer view. There's no doubt that my own opinions and perceptions are formed largely by where I am and what I observe.
What I perceive is America repeating for at least the third time a historical tendency to isolate itself from other nations. Following WWII the president declared that we would build rings of steel around the Warsaw pact but as the cold war thawed it sometimes seems that America has built walls around itself.
Through Colin Powell last week Bush admitted that he had made a number of mistake early in his term, particularly in regards to Kyoto and the incident involving China and the spy plane. He acknowledged acting rashly and not considering the repercussions of the actions he chose to take. He has been criticised this week in Europe for wagging his finger at the Germans and telling them they must "do something" about terrorism. It is perceived as condescending by Europeans, who have dealt with terrorism for decades. It isn't new to them.
Every countryman and woman thinks their country is the "greatest" but it is a very subjective judgement no matter who makes it. What one nation feels is important to quality of life may not weigh as heavily in another one. I personally choose to live in England in order to enjoy some freedoms that, quite frankly, don't exist in America. These are freedoms that are more important here than in the US. It doesn't make one country better or worse, only different.
As an American myself there is one thing I ask myself and feel Americans should be asking themselves and that is "why are so many people increasingly critical of the US?" Add to that why are they feel so strongly that they will go to any lengths to attack or strike out at American interests?
Many of these views are held by moderate people who are not ignorant or stupid or even unfair nor are they jealous. It takes a great deal of arrogance to dismiss the idea of self examination in the face of such criticism.
Most Europeans like Americans and America and actually find it very difficult to be critical. When criticism comes from good and loyal friends--as Europeans and the British are--it should be considered.
Sometimes it's useful to step back from something to get a clearer view. There's no doubt that my own opinions and perceptions are formed largely by where I am and what I observe.
What I perceive is America repeating for at least the third time a historical tendency to isolate itself from other nations. Following WWII the president declared that we would build rings of steel around the Warsaw pact but as the cold war thawed it sometimes seems that America has built walls around itself.
Through Colin Powell last week Bush admitted that he had made a number of mistake early in his term, particularly in regards to Kyoto and the incident involving China and the spy plane. He acknowledged acting rashly and not considering the repercussions of the actions he chose to take. He has been criticised this week in Europe for wagging his finger at the Germans and telling them they must "do something" about terrorism. It is perceived as condescending by Europeans, who have dealt with terrorism for decades. It isn't new to them.
Every countryman and woman thinks their country is the "greatest" but it is a very subjective judgement no matter who makes it. What one nation feels is important to quality of life may not weigh as heavily in another one. I personally choose to live in England in order to enjoy some freedoms that, quite frankly, don't exist in America. These are freedoms that are more important here than in the US. It doesn't make one country better or worse, only different.
As an American myself there is one thing I ask myself and feel Americans should be asking themselves and that is "why are so many people increasingly critical of the US?" Add to that why are they feel so strongly that they will go to any lengths to attack or strike out at American interests?
Many of these views are held by moderate people who are not ignorant or stupid or even unfair nor are they jealous. It takes a great deal of arrogance to dismiss the idea of self examination in the face of such criticism.
Most Europeans like Americans and America and actually find it very difficult to be critical. When criticism comes from good and loyal friends--as Europeans and the British are--it should be considered.
Ray Dario
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CD,
You have raised some interesting points here. First you condemn Bush for making mistakes early in his presidency. Everyone makes mistakes. Bush is making one right now. I hope that others will raise the voice of reason and correct him. One of the problems with our system of government is that just about the time a President learns how to be an effective President we replace him with someone who has never been President before. This is also a strength because by doing this we keep one person from being in power too long. We allowed that with FDR and have been paying for his mistakes for decades.
Each new President makes mistakes. I don't hold it against Bush. In fact I'm glad that he has the balls to come out and admit it. Only by admitting it can he learn from it and move on. Clinton made many, many serious mistakes, but could never admit to them and never learned from them. That is why he was still making them at the end of his administration, and why Algore would have made them as well.
About this idea that you seem to have about so many people hating America so much they will go to any length to attack us. Let me suggest that this is less reality and more a fantasy of yours. Only the extreme radical Muslim's have this attitude and that stems almost solely from our persistent support of Israel.
I would point out that the mainstream Muslim's do not hold this view and they vastly out number the radical Muslims.
As even you noted, Europe, even through the current isolationist movement that is sweeping that continent, in general considers themselves our friend. Yes we have disputes, but nothing that cannot be worked through. The current trade tiffs are just a lot of smoke blowing that will eventually work themselves out.
Also we have never had better relations with Canada, Mexico, China, Japan, Australia and Great Britain.
So where are the hateful hoards gnashing their teeth to see us dead? Libya, Iraq, Iran, Syria, Pakistan and a few in Saudi Arabia. These countries have hated us for years. Remember back when Carter was President and the American embassy was seized? I don’t think that was done out of love.
No, I don't see the angry mobs you seem to.
As far as Americans having problems. Yeah we do. According to a world wide pole taken by a major European magazine America is the fourth most arrogant nation. Number 1? Japan. 2 France 3 Germany
In a similar poll taken strictly in America we ranked third. Behind France and Canada. Interesting because I don’t see Canada as being arrogant at all, but then I live far from them.
Yes we are, in general arrogant. We are also, in general, ignorant and that to me is much more upsetting. In today's world it hurts our nation to have such a large part of our population poorly educated. But this is not a new thing. It has been coming on for years. Each time the Teachers Union gains power our education system suffers and we become more ignorant as a nation.
Lastly about Great Briton protecting more freedoms than America, well I have to admit a certain amount of ignorance here. I would love to see a list of some of the freedom's protected by GB that America does not protect.
Ray
You have raised some interesting points here. First you condemn Bush for making mistakes early in his presidency. Everyone makes mistakes. Bush is making one right now. I hope that others will raise the voice of reason and correct him. One of the problems with our system of government is that just about the time a President learns how to be an effective President we replace him with someone who has never been President before. This is also a strength because by doing this we keep one person from being in power too long. We allowed that with FDR and have been paying for his mistakes for decades.
Each new President makes mistakes. I don't hold it against Bush. In fact I'm glad that he has the balls to come out and admit it. Only by admitting it can he learn from it and move on. Clinton made many, many serious mistakes, but could never admit to them and never learned from them. That is why he was still making them at the end of his administration, and why Algore would have made them as well.
About this idea that you seem to have about so many people hating America so much they will go to any length to attack us. Let me suggest that this is less reality and more a fantasy of yours. Only the extreme radical Muslim's have this attitude and that stems almost solely from our persistent support of Israel.
I would point out that the mainstream Muslim's do not hold this view and they vastly out number the radical Muslims.
As even you noted, Europe, even through the current isolationist movement that is sweeping that continent, in general considers themselves our friend. Yes we have disputes, but nothing that cannot be worked through. The current trade tiffs are just a lot of smoke blowing that will eventually work themselves out.
Also we have never had better relations with Canada, Mexico, China, Japan, Australia and Great Britain.
So where are the hateful hoards gnashing their teeth to see us dead? Libya, Iraq, Iran, Syria, Pakistan and a few in Saudi Arabia. These countries have hated us for years. Remember back when Carter was President and the American embassy was seized? I don’t think that was done out of love.
No, I don't see the angry mobs you seem to.
As far as Americans having problems. Yeah we do. According to a world wide pole taken by a major European magazine America is the fourth most arrogant nation. Number 1? Japan. 2 France 3 Germany
In a similar poll taken strictly in America we ranked third. Behind France and Canada. Interesting because I don’t see Canada as being arrogant at all, but then I live far from them.
Yes we are, in general arrogant. We are also, in general, ignorant and that to me is much more upsetting. In today's world it hurts our nation to have such a large part of our population poorly educated. But this is not a new thing. It has been coming on for years. Each time the Teachers Union gains power our education system suffers and we become more ignorant as a nation.
Lastly about Great Briton protecting more freedoms than America, well I have to admit a certain amount of ignorance here. I would love to see a list of some of the freedom's protected by GB that America does not protect.
Ray
Closet Desire
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A "list" of freedoms?
This is another curious American obsession--the absolute need to quantify and classify everything into its proper place.
What disturbs me about what you write is the distortion of what I've said into what you would like to think I said. I said nothing about GB "guaranteeing" certain freedoms. I said I enjoy freedoms that don't exist in America.
Number one on that list is freedom from moral judgement by self-rightious individuals and groups. I don't have to endure the ceaseless arguments and time wasted trying to put prayer into schools. I don't have to read about Harry Potter books being burned or self appointed censors picketing stores, movies, and libraries because they think Harry Potter is the Devil's apprentice. I don't have to read about mayors of towns signing orders to cast out Satan. It means I can write and publish erotica and not worry about my friends and business associates thinking I'm immoral or sinful. It also means I can start a conversation with a stranger and not be asked five minutes into it what church I go to. This was the most disconcerting thing about my 25th HS reunion in your neck of the woods where the yard stick for success was what role you held in the local church.
Number two on that list is the right to privacy (this one is, in fact, guaranteed by law). No business or organisation that has my name, address, or any other personal data is allowed to release it to anyone else without my written consent. Period. It means I don't get junk mail, credit offers, telephone calls, etc. It sounds trivial but it is a breath of fresh air. Our business must be registered with the Data Protection Registrar to ensure that we comply with the requirements for our client's privacy. We are specifically not allowed to release information to US businesses because that guarantee is lacking in the US.
Number three on that list is freedom from harrassment by law enforcement. This is a wide ranging freedom that is difficult to quantify but I'll try. The police don't waste their time pursuing ridiculous games in traffic control or vice. They don't set up sting operations for prostitution (soliciting is illegal, selling sex isn't). They don't harrass people for drinking a beer on their front lawn or as they walk down the street. Possessing cannabis isn't going to land you in the slammer (I don't use it myself) nor are you going to go to jail for life for shoplifting (as in a number of cases in California where the 3-strike law has been carried to pathetic extremes). You can have sex when you're 16 without being charged with rape and you can drink at 18. If you are arrested for something (as my daughter was) you are guaranteed legal representation at no cost, regardless of your ability to pay, by a member of the legal community at large (not some junior public defender on the government payroll). If you're convicted the punishment is more likely to fit the crime. I noticed that you're fond of lists--here's your state's ranking for government ordered executions--third in the world among all countries. Only China and Iran execute more citizens than Texas.
I particularly enjoy the freedom to be considered a part of the culture here--even though I choose to remain a US citizen. I have the same benefits as a subject of Britain, access to health care, social security, etc. Unlike the British widow of the American killed in the WTC I would not be forced to return to the US if my English wife died. This is my home and I am welcome here.
America espouses the protection of freedoms but this doesn't necessarily mean you have them. Despite the clear language of the founding fathers efforts to censor speech, instill religion into schools, and so forth the Supreme Court is kept busy continuing to reject laws enacted by those who don't respect those freedoms. When they don't succeed legally they attack on their own as the pro-life groups do with things such as www.abortioncams.com where they ostracise and threaten fellow Americans for exercising their freedoms.
I grew up not too far from you and I used to think in much the same way. When I left school I joined the navy and spent the next ten years overseas. This dramatically altered my view of other cultures, diluted my concept of US superiority and morality, and made me more critical of US policies. It returned to the US for ten years and then moved here six years ago.
I made no mention of "mobs" against America. In fact, my reference was to the opinions of moderate, educated people who are expressing concerns about American policy. Many of your so called guaranteed freedoms have suddenly taken the back seat to paranoia over terrorist activity. Suddenly "rights" only apply if you are American. What you don't read too much about in the American press are the thousands of men, women, and children who have been rounded up in the fallout of WTC and either detained without charge or deported to countries in which they have never lived. For example, a Somalian man who came to America at the age of three, was educated in the public schools, attended university, and worked (paid taxes) as an engineer with Hewlett Packard was detained. His property and money was seized and he was sent to Somalia (a country unknown to him) with a group of other men. These men now live dozens to a room in a hovel and in a country where they are regarded as "Americans". They do not speak the language, have no money, and no prospects. If a mob exists anywhere it exists in America although not always as a rock throwing, bomb planting crowd. Rather it exists as a mentality which views "Muslims" and other faceless groups as the enemy.
I make no secret of my personal opinion of Bush as an imbecile. He has a small mind, sees only a narrow point of view, and lacks the understanding of history and culture to be effective on that front. It's a big world out there and perhaps the greatest freedom I enjoy is the freedom to mingle and live with people of many different cultures and beliefs and to be accepted by them in return.
This is another curious American obsession--the absolute need to quantify and classify everything into its proper place.
What disturbs me about what you write is the distortion of what I've said into what you would like to think I said. I said nothing about GB "guaranteeing" certain freedoms. I said I enjoy freedoms that don't exist in America.
Number one on that list is freedom from moral judgement by self-rightious individuals and groups. I don't have to endure the ceaseless arguments and time wasted trying to put prayer into schools. I don't have to read about Harry Potter books being burned or self appointed censors picketing stores, movies, and libraries because they think Harry Potter is the Devil's apprentice. I don't have to read about mayors of towns signing orders to cast out Satan. It means I can write and publish erotica and not worry about my friends and business associates thinking I'm immoral or sinful. It also means I can start a conversation with a stranger and not be asked five minutes into it what church I go to. This was the most disconcerting thing about my 25th HS reunion in your neck of the woods where the yard stick for success was what role you held in the local church.
Number two on that list is the right to privacy (this one is, in fact, guaranteed by law). No business or organisation that has my name, address, or any other personal data is allowed to release it to anyone else without my written consent. Period. It means I don't get junk mail, credit offers, telephone calls, etc. It sounds trivial but it is a breath of fresh air. Our business must be registered with the Data Protection Registrar to ensure that we comply with the requirements for our client's privacy. We are specifically not allowed to release information to US businesses because that guarantee is lacking in the US.
Number three on that list is freedom from harrassment by law enforcement. This is a wide ranging freedom that is difficult to quantify but I'll try. The police don't waste their time pursuing ridiculous games in traffic control or vice. They don't set up sting operations for prostitution (soliciting is illegal, selling sex isn't). They don't harrass people for drinking a beer on their front lawn or as they walk down the street. Possessing cannabis isn't going to land you in the slammer (I don't use it myself) nor are you going to go to jail for life for shoplifting (as in a number of cases in California where the 3-strike law has been carried to pathetic extremes). You can have sex when you're 16 without being charged with rape and you can drink at 18. If you are arrested for something (as my daughter was) you are guaranteed legal representation at no cost, regardless of your ability to pay, by a member of the legal community at large (not some junior public defender on the government payroll). If you're convicted the punishment is more likely to fit the crime. I noticed that you're fond of lists--here's your state's ranking for government ordered executions--third in the world among all countries. Only China and Iran execute more citizens than Texas.
I particularly enjoy the freedom to be considered a part of the culture here--even though I choose to remain a US citizen. I have the same benefits as a subject of Britain, access to health care, social security, etc. Unlike the British widow of the American killed in the WTC I would not be forced to return to the US if my English wife died. This is my home and I am welcome here.
America espouses the protection of freedoms but this doesn't necessarily mean you have them. Despite the clear language of the founding fathers efforts to censor speech, instill religion into schools, and so forth the Supreme Court is kept busy continuing to reject laws enacted by those who don't respect those freedoms. When they don't succeed legally they attack on their own as the pro-life groups do with things such as www.abortioncams.com where they ostracise and threaten fellow Americans for exercising their freedoms.
I grew up not too far from you and I used to think in much the same way. When I left school I joined the navy and spent the next ten years overseas. This dramatically altered my view of other cultures, diluted my concept of US superiority and morality, and made me more critical of US policies. It returned to the US for ten years and then moved here six years ago.
I made no mention of "mobs" against America. In fact, my reference was to the opinions of moderate, educated people who are expressing concerns about American policy. Many of your so called guaranteed freedoms have suddenly taken the back seat to paranoia over terrorist activity. Suddenly "rights" only apply if you are American. What you don't read too much about in the American press are the thousands of men, women, and children who have been rounded up in the fallout of WTC and either detained without charge or deported to countries in which they have never lived. For example, a Somalian man who came to America at the age of three, was educated in the public schools, attended university, and worked (paid taxes) as an engineer with Hewlett Packard was detained. His property and money was seized and he was sent to Somalia (a country unknown to him) with a group of other men. These men now live dozens to a room in a hovel and in a country where they are regarded as "Americans". They do not speak the language, have no money, and no prospects. If a mob exists anywhere it exists in America although not always as a rock throwing, bomb planting crowd. Rather it exists as a mentality which views "Muslims" and other faceless groups as the enemy.
I make no secret of my personal opinion of Bush as an imbecile. He has a small mind, sees only a narrow point of view, and lacks the understanding of history and culture to be effective on that front. It's a big world out there and perhaps the greatest freedom I enjoy is the freedom to mingle and live with people of many different cultures and beliefs and to be accepted by them in return.
Last edited:
Ray Dario
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CD,
So what I gather from your post is that the "freedoms" you say you enjoy in GB are actually the infringement of freedom's on others in your behalf.
Number one on that list is freedom from moral judgement by self-rightious individuals and groups. I don't have to endure the ceaseless arguments and time wasted trying to put prayer into schools. I don't have to read about Harry Potter books being burned or self appointed censors picketing stores, movies, and libraries because they think Harry Potter is the Devil's apprentice. I don't have to read about mayors of towns signing orders to cast out Satan. It means I can write and publish erotica and not worry about my friends and business associates thinking I'm immoral or sinful. It also means I can start a conversation with a stranger and not be asked five minutes into it what church I go to. This was the most disconcerting thing about my 25th HS reunion in your neck of the woods where the yard stick for success was what role you held in the local church.
This is nearly verbatim my definition of a violation of free speech. You obviously value yours but would like to deny it to those who disagree with you. Interesting.
About the right to privacy. There again you are saying you have a right to prevent someone else from using information they worked to gather. Your right is superior to theirs. Hmmm. If I have to put up with a few pieces of junk mail in order to protect someone else's freedom, I'll do just that. When I was 18 I swore to die to protect those freedoms, junk mail doesn't scare me.
Number three. I have never been harrassed by law enforcement doing any of the things you describe. Perhaps you read too many "creative" journalists who don't live in America but feel entirely qualified to write about all it's problems.
I don't think I have twisted anything you have said. I have a different opinion than you. You are happy living in England. I'm glad you are. If it makes you happy then stay there.
I'm sorry that you have such a poor opinion of such a great nation. You have your opinion, I have mine. Let's leave it at that.
I will not respond to you on this matter anymore. It's up to you if you want to continue to spout your hate-mongering rhetoric. You have that right, just as the pro-life groups have their right to speak their opinions and the athiests have their right to speak theirs.
And before you go off half-cocked at my refering to your attacks as hate-mongering, consider this. You are the only one in this conversation who has advocated hate. A hatred of America. I have been on the defensive since the you started this topic. This is the second time you have started this topic here in the Author's hangout. It doesn't really belong here and it certainly doesn't belong in this post. You seem to have an ax to grind. Please grind it somewhere else. I suggest the General board.
We disagree. I am firmly convinced I'm right. You are firmly convinced you are right. As far as I see there is nothing left to say.
Ray
So what I gather from your post is that the "freedoms" you say you enjoy in GB are actually the infringement of freedom's on others in your behalf.
Number one on that list is freedom from moral judgement by self-rightious individuals and groups. I don't have to endure the ceaseless arguments and time wasted trying to put prayer into schools. I don't have to read about Harry Potter books being burned or self appointed censors picketing stores, movies, and libraries because they think Harry Potter is the Devil's apprentice. I don't have to read about mayors of towns signing orders to cast out Satan. It means I can write and publish erotica and not worry about my friends and business associates thinking I'm immoral or sinful. It also means I can start a conversation with a stranger and not be asked five minutes into it what church I go to. This was the most disconcerting thing about my 25th HS reunion in your neck of the woods where the yard stick for success was what role you held in the local church.
This is nearly verbatim my definition of a violation of free speech. You obviously value yours but would like to deny it to those who disagree with you. Interesting.
About the right to privacy. There again you are saying you have a right to prevent someone else from using information they worked to gather. Your right is superior to theirs. Hmmm. If I have to put up with a few pieces of junk mail in order to protect someone else's freedom, I'll do just that. When I was 18 I swore to die to protect those freedoms, junk mail doesn't scare me.
Number three. I have never been harrassed by law enforcement doing any of the things you describe. Perhaps you read too many "creative" journalists who don't live in America but feel entirely qualified to write about all it's problems.
I don't think I have twisted anything you have said. I have a different opinion than you. You are happy living in England. I'm glad you are. If it makes you happy then stay there.
I'm sorry that you have such a poor opinion of such a great nation. You have your opinion, I have mine. Let's leave it at that.
I will not respond to you on this matter anymore. It's up to you if you want to continue to spout your hate-mongering rhetoric. You have that right, just as the pro-life groups have their right to speak their opinions and the athiests have their right to speak theirs.
And before you go off half-cocked at my refering to your attacks as hate-mongering, consider this. You are the only one in this conversation who has advocated hate. A hatred of America. I have been on the defensive since the you started this topic. This is the second time you have started this topic here in the Author's hangout. It doesn't really belong here and it certainly doesn't belong in this post. You seem to have an ax to grind. Please grind it somewhere else. I suggest the General board.
We disagree. I am firmly convinced I'm right. You are firmly convinced you are right. As far as I see there is nothing left to say.
Ray
SlickTony
Literotica Guru
- Joined
- May 25, 2002
- Posts
- 6,344
Geez, this isn't any better than the threads you find on WorldCrossing. Allofasudden we have people snarling at each other about politics in a thread that I could've sworn was supposed to be devoted to the craft of writing.
Maybe we could start talking about cats, instead...?
Maybe we could start talking about cats, instead...?
Closet Desire
Literotica Guru
- Joined
- Sep 26, 2000
- Posts
- 1,177
No mention...
...of hate or indeed snarling. Only an expression of opinion and my preferences. Incidentally I didn't actually start anything--only responded. BTW--I took the same oath as you when I was eighteen and have been getting a disability cheque from the U.S. DOD for nearly twenty years. Spare me the patriotic spiel.
I don't begrudge you or anyone else their opinions or their rights to express them. I don't even disagree with you--having said that I once believed as you do and suggesting that my changed circumstances altered my views. Sowing hatred? That's a pretty imaginative leap--more fiction than anything else.
Speaking of fiction...
On the craft of writing--I did mention Harry Potter
Now--about the craft of writing--or rewriting. What do you guys think of the news that a new version of Peter Pan that's going to start filiming shortly in which Wendy becomes a "Lolita" and embarks on self-discovery with ole Peter?
Something new to chew on?
...of hate or indeed snarling. Only an expression of opinion and my preferences. Incidentally I didn't actually start anything--only responded. BTW--I took the same oath as you when I was eighteen and have been getting a disability cheque from the U.S. DOD for nearly twenty years. Spare me the patriotic spiel.
I don't begrudge you or anyone else their opinions or their rights to express them. I don't even disagree with you--having said that I once believed as you do and suggesting that my changed circumstances altered my views. Sowing hatred? That's a pretty imaginative leap--more fiction than anything else.
Speaking of fiction...
On the craft of writing--I did mention Harry Potter
Now--about the craft of writing--or rewriting. What do you guys think of the news that a new version of Peter Pan that's going to start filiming shortly in which Wendy becomes a "Lolita" and embarks on self-discovery with ole Peter?
Something new to chew on?
Last edited:
Judas Mondas
Virgin
- Joined
- Apr 3, 2002
- Posts
- 3
Good, CD, Stay there
We are all very impressed with your super liberal views, CD. We are glad you are happy in England. Most Americans love England and I have never met a Brit that didn't love the USA. Stay there please and spare us all. In the meantime we here will go on with our lives and somehow try to deal with with the thousands of foreigners who apply for entry every month.
We are all very impressed with your super liberal views, CD. We are glad you are happy in England. Most Americans love England and I have never met a Brit that didn't love the USA. Stay there please and spare us all. In the meantime we here will go on with our lives and somehow try to deal with with the thousands of foreigners who apply for entry every month.
Quasimodem
Literotica Guru
- Joined
- Jun 30, 2001
- Posts
- 2,191
Good idea, SlickTony.
You gonna tell us something controversial about pussy.
the_bragis
Really Really Experienced
- Joined
- Mar 25, 2002
- Posts
- 389
Ray,
For what it's worth, I enjoy reading your stories, and many others, regarless of whether or not the grammar (I'm an Aussie)and spelling are 'perfect'. Maybe it is maybe it isn't. I never bothered to check if all the comas are in the right places either.
To be absolutely honest, unless it's something blatant that really jumps out and hits me, those are the last things on my warped little mind at the time I am reading an erotic story.
I do however admire anyone who strives to be better, so good luck finding those books.
Alex (f)
For what it's worth, I enjoy reading your stories, and many others, regarless of whether or not the grammar (I'm an Aussie)and spelling are 'perfect'. Maybe it is maybe it isn't. I never bothered to check if all the comas are in the right places either.
To be absolutely honest, unless it's something blatant that really jumps out and hits me, those are the last things on my warped little mind at the time I am reading an erotic story.
I do however admire anyone who strives to be better, so good luck finding those books.
Alex (f)
