Help me with my commitment phobe

[Cathleen]

I'm sorry LadyJ, I wish it was different.

 

[kitsune_kun]

I don't give up hope so easy, not when there's love. 20 years ago, we didn't love each other. 20 years ago, neither of us would have ever, ever imagined we'd be together the way we are now. Hell, two years ago, we were with other people.

That's a HUGE change for the both of us, one we would not have predicted or entertained. I can't change his mind, but we are certainly not beyond hope! Not when there's love.

Your right, there's still hope, and love IS a powerfull thing, so I guess all i have to say is, "go for it, we're all behind you"

 

[M's girl]

I'm glad you're back too. I think I know how you feel....

It's a huge dilemma but I think you have to give it some time. Since you have not talked marriage before, he has to get used to the idea. The outcome may (and probably will) still be it's something he just does not want. But you never know.... at least now he knows it's what you want and need. Maybe the two of you can compromise somewhere down the line?

I don't know. I completely understand all your reasoning, and I understand also how you can't understand he's not feeling the same. I guess you can say I'm in a similar situation although it's not about marriage. I'm afraid only you can (and will have to) decide in the end if what you get from him will be enough to go on. Because it does sound as if he does not want to lose you, right?

I'll be back when I have more usefull input...

Take care honey

 

[Verbiwhore]

My heart goes out to you Lady.
You have achieved so much together, twenty years for lords sake in a time when many relationships can barely last longer than a general board thread.
How would marriage change the nature of your relationship?

 

[Quoll]

Well that wiped the shit eating grin off my face, glad to have you back anyway.
Hopefully given time to think things over he may come to realise what he's gaining.
{{{{{{{{{{{{LJ}}}}}}}}}}}}

 

[LadyJeanne]

You're all so kind...thank you.

I went over to his place the other night. First time we'd seen each other since our conversation. I was afraid his walls would be up, but no, it was mine that were up.

I almost didn't even go to see him. When I called beforehand, he mentioned he was feeling run-down and maybe had the start of a cold, I offered not to come by if he needed to rest. I didn't invite him to lunch with friends the next day because I was hesitant to make demands on his free time. I left the next morning without breakfast, just coffee, because I didn't want to impose on his time.

This was all in my head, of course. He was wonderfully sweet and loving and passionate as ever. But I'm feeling like Osama bin Laden, now... LadyJeanne: Enemy of Freedom. The one who wants to take his life way, curtail his independence, hater of liberty, freedom thief.

I know it's dumb. But am I going to be wondering now if whenever I ask him to do something...a date, a party, a brunch, whatever, is he viewing it as an obligation, as an infringement on his time? I never felt so before, certainly, but now I can't help but wonder if that's how it works in his head.

 

[LadyJeanne]

Because it does sound as if he does not want to lose you, right?

No, he doesn't want to lose me. But he recognizes that he might. He's worried that I might get frustrated. He's worried that I might start to "hate" him for the way he feels about this.

 

[silverwhisper]

ladyjeanne, he's being a complete butt-head.

ed

 

[LadyJeanne]

My heart goes out to you Lady.
You have achieved so much together, twenty years for lords sake in a time when many relationships can barely last longer than a general board thread.
How would marriage change the nature of your relationship?

I don't know how it would change the nature of our relationship, and at this point that's not under consideration.

Knowing that he doesn't see our relationship leading toward marriage is affecting my perspective, and that's going to change the nature of our current relationship. If we're not building a future together, then what are we doing?

 

[LadyJeanne]

ladyjeanne, he's being a complete butt-head.

ed

Yes, yes he is.

He was holding me so tightly the other night when we were drifting off to sleep, I just couldn't understand how he doesn't see what a butthead he's being.

 

[LadyJeanne]

Well that wiped the shit eating grin off my face, glad to have you back anyway.
Hopefully given time to think things over he may come to realise what he's gaining.
{{{{{{{{{{{{LJ}}}}}}}}}}}}

I keep coming back to this. Like, I wonder if he's just so panicked about the idea right now that he can't see past the end of his nose.

 

[silverwhisper]

what i don't understand is what freedom does he think he's losing? you're presumably exclusive w/ one another already, right?

ed

 

[LadyJeanne]

what i don't understand is what freedom does he think he's losing? you're presumably exclusive w/ one another already, right?

ed

Yes, we're exclusive, and he specifically said this wasn't about wanting to have the freedom to be with other women.

I asked him the same question, and he had a hard time coming up with anything. He said the big thing was "TIME". He wanted to be able to do whatever he wanted, whenever he wanted.

I don't know. I guess that means when he wants to sub for someone and play an extra game of softball that week, he doesn't want to have to call the wife and ask her if that's ok. And maybe he doesn't want the wife to be telling him what to do with his time, like, oh, we have to go to my parents' place this weekend for whatever. But I'm just guessing.

 

[silverwhisper]

so in essence he's built up marriage to be this great big thing in his head and until he gets past his mental block, the future of your relationship remains in fucking limbo?

i'm sorry, LJ. i truly am.

ed

 

[LadyJeanne]

so in essence he's built up marriage to be this great big thing in his head and until he gets past his mental block, the future of your relationship remains in fucking limbo?

i'm sorry, LJ. i truly am.

ed

Yes!! Now you understand!!!

He's created this BIG HUGE THING that is MARRIAGE, i.e.: GIVING HIS LIFE AWAY.

And this mental block is preventing him from considered what OUR marriage would be like. Or that he would have a SAY in what kind of marriage we would create.

 

[silverwhisper]

o good grief...

{LJ}

ed

 

[LadyJeanne]

Here's the song I have stuck in my head...for obvious reasons...

From My Fair Lady:

I'm an ordinary man

I'm an ordinary man;
Who desires nothing more
Than just the ordinary chance
To live exactly as he likes
And do precisely what he wants.
An average man am I,
Of no eccentric whim;
Who likes to live his life
Free of strife,
Doing whatever he thinks is best for him.
Just an ordinary man.

But let a woman in your life
And your serenity is through!
She'll redecorate your home,
From the cellar to the dome;
Then go on to the enthralling
Fun of overhauling
You.

Oh, let a woman in your life
And you are up against the wall!
Make a plan and you will find
She has something else in mind;
And so rather than do either
You do something else that neither
Likes at all.

You want to talk of Keats or Milton;
She only wants to talk of love.
You go to see a play or ballet,
And spend it searching for her glove.

Oh, let a woman in your life
And you invite eternal strife!
Let them buy their wedding bands
For those anxious little hands;
I'd be equally as willing
For a dentist to be drilling
Than to ever let a woman in my life!

I'm a very gentle man;
Even-tempered and good-natured,
Whom you never hear complain;
Who has the milk of human kindness
By the quart in ev'ry vein.

A patient man am I
Down to my fingertips;
The sort who never could,
Ever would,
Let an insulting remark escape his lips.
Just a very gentle man.

But let a woman in your life
And patience hasn't got a chance.
She will beg you for advice;
Your reply will be concise.
And she'll listen very nicely
Then go out and do precisely
What she wants!

You were a man of grace and polish
Who never spoke above a hush.
Now all at once you're using language
That would make a sailor blush.

Oh, let a woman in your life
And you're plunging in a knife!
Let the others of my sex
Tie the knot - around their necks;
I'd prefer a new edition
Of the Spanish Inquisition
Than to ever let a woman in my life!

I'm a quiet living man
Who prefers to spend the evenings
In the silence of his room;
Who likes an atmosphere as restful
As an undiscovered tomb.
A pensive man am I
Of philosophic joys;
Who likes to meditate,
Contemplate,
Free from humanity's mad, inhuman noise.
Just a quiet living man.

But let a woman in your life
And your sabbatical is through!
In a line that never ends
Come an army of her friends;
Come to jabber and to chatter
And to tell her what the matter is with you.

She 'll have a booming, boist'rous fam'ly
Who will descend on you en masse.
She'll have a large Wagnerian mother
With a voice that shatters glass!

Oh, let a woman in your life. . .
Let a woman in your life . . .
Let a woman in your life . . .
I shall never let a woman in my life!

(Lerner and Loewe)

 

[Quoll]

Make him put it down on paper, the specific things he thinks he will lose, at least then you are not trying to understand some vague idea/feeling that he has, and just maybe he will be able to look at it in a new light.
Hell why don't both of you do the old pro/con thing, apart from his mental block on commitment you guys seem to get along just fine, so it shouldn't be a major drama, especially if it's done in a lighthearted way.
If not, that's cool, I've got plenty of time at night to think while I am driving, I'm sure I can come up with another harebrained scheme.

 

[Nightbird]

I took the time to do some more reading here..

This is a complicated issue.. Things like is he afraid of having children, and other things are running through my mind.

But then there is another thought. It's times like these that I'm almost glad I can be a cold hearted unfeeling bastard (The explaination for that one is a whole other thread) but the point I'm trying to get to is this. What are you worth? To yourself and to him?

If it were me I'd make it clear and simple to him I want more from the relationship it's been 20 years and I deserve better. If he wasn't willing to move ahead by either moving in together or actually getting married then the relationship would be over. It would be that simple for me, because I am worth it and because of that ability I have to be cold hearted.

To translate that into something a little more normal, L J you deserve better. He's not even willing to seek counselling or get help for what he calls a Independance / mental issue? He should at least be willing to seek counselling and get help his refusal to do that shows a total disrespect for you and your relationship with him.

He doesn't care enough about you to at least try counselling? Somethings not right with that picture.

You deserve better.

 

[LadyJeanne]

Make him put it down on paper, the specific things he thinks he will lose, at least then you are not trying to understand some vague idea/feeling that he has, and just maybe he will be able to look at it in a new light.
Hell why don't both of you do the old pro/con thing, apart from his mental block on commitment you guys seem to get along just fine, so it shouldn't be a major drama, especially if it's done in a lighthearted way.
If not, that's cool, I've got plenty of time at night to think while I am driving, I'm sure I can come up with another harebrained scheme.

We had that conversation where I tried to talk about specifics. He found it difficult because of the mental block. And you're right...it was actually very lighthearted, and a really good conversation to have. Although I know how hard it was for him to talk about this stuff, he stuck with it and we weren't arguing and it was full of laughter.

He's a thinker. I know he'll take this information and think about it, and hopefully be able to break through the block a little bit in order to see what OUR reality would be and how it might differ from the general ideas he has about tying the noose, er, knot.

Honestly, if he hadn't been so adamant about never wanting to be married, I'd just consider this the opening volley. When I brought up marriage, I did it because I figured it was going to take him a loooong time to get comfortable with the idea. I figured he'd panic and run screaming, and then when I said nothing more about it, he'd calm down enough to think about it. I figured he'd then talk to me about it and ask some quesitons, then think about it some more, then talk a little more, and eventually, he'd come around to the concept.

He said he thought I was telling him to make a decision already! So he gave it some intense thought and came up with the only decision he could in a panic situation. And I laughed and laughed because I knew he'd panic. He panicked so much that he completely forgot that I had brought up the m word while we were in the bathroom!

So, I expected panic. And he says he'll think about it some more. So, maybe he'll calm down enough now to think about it more specifically.

 

[LadyJeanne]

double post

 

[LadyJeanne]

I took the time to do some more reading here..

This is a complicated issue.. Things like is he afraid of having children, and other things are running through my mind.

But then there is another thought. It's times like these that I'm almost glad I can be a cold hearted unfeeling bastard (The explaination for that one is a whole other thread) but the point I'm trying to get to is this. What are you worth? To yourself and to him?

If it were me I'd make it clear and simple to him I want more from the relationship it's been 20 years and I deserve better. If he wasn't willing to move ahead by either moving in together or actually getting married then the relationship would be over. It would be that simple for me, because I am worth it and because of that ability I have to be cold hearted.

To translate that into something a little more normal, L J you deserve better. He's not even willing to seek counselling or get help for what he calls a Independance / mental issue? He should at least be willing to seek counselling and get help his refusal to do that shows a total disrespect for you and your relationship with him.

He doesn't care enough about you to at least try counselling? Somethings not right with that picture.

You deserve better.

He'd have to believe in counseling to actually seek counseling.

He'd have to want to give up his independence in order to seek help to be more comfortable in giving up his independence...or help to change his perspective so it doesn't feel like giving up his independence...or something like that.

When we first got together, it wasn't about love and he never thought he'd love me. Later, he thought he loved me, but never thought he'd be in love with me. Now, he knows he loves me and is in love with me, but he thinks he'll never want to "give his life away". It's not about me, or his feelings for me. It's about his fears.

But, you're right. I do deserve better than to be with someone who's not open to considering the possibilities. I can't just stop loving him, though. I do believe in us, so just walking away right now doesn't feel right. I want to give him a chance to reverse this "NEVER" just like he's reversed his other "NEVERS" he's been so certain about in the past.

 

[midwestyankee]

LJ, I presume that you've tried the "two-by-four-upside-the-head" approach, right?

Just checking.

 

[LadyJeanne]

LJ, I presume that you've tried the "two-by-four-upside-the-head" approach, right?

Just checking.

I don't think I have, actually.

HE does, though. The m word was the two-by-four...

 

[midwestyankee]

I don't think I have, actually.

HE does, though. The m word was the two-by-four...

I know whereof you speak. My bride-to-be simply asked me to go to church with her. I should have been suspicious that it was a Saturday afternoon, don't you think? Not much going on at the Methodist Church on Saturdays except preludes to bad covered dish suppers. I shudda known!