Here is a question that feminists would hate

[emme]

What about me?

Once I tied up my husband and did some not domme-ish things to him ... until he was BEGGING.
My intention was to please him, which I am pretty sure I did when I Finally got around to it.

At school, at work, and to other people than my husband I am fairly dominant. At least I am sucessful and people tend to listen to me. (Not that a submissive perosn can be successful)

I also think I am fairly decently submissive to my husband, most of the time.

What I naturally? An ONION!
Not because I stink, but because I have lots of layers, some submissive, some dominant, some sweet, and some bitchy.

Love emme

 

[A Desert Rose]

You called Dommes bitches and inferred that submissives are not smart enough to judge character, and you say I flamed you.

That is quite a poor job of backpedaling.

 

[bridgeburner]

NCShin,

No, I don't believe that gender is a great determiner for whether a person is submissive or not. I do believe that women are more often socialized to be bottoms and men more often socialized to be Tops, but while anyone might learn the rudiments of playing either role, D/s nature is specific to the individual. Not unlike with dogs.

Ever hang out at the dog park? It's pretty easy to determine which animals are Alpha and that's not got anything to do with gender. The Alpha dog in my roomate's pack is the youngest dog who happens to also be female and blind from birth. Why is she Alpha? I've got no idea. Ask the other dogs.

D/s isn't a set description, either. There's a pecking order -- Alpha on down. Just because you're submissive to one person doesn't make you submissive to every person. Likewise, just because you're able to dominate one person doesn't mean you'll be able to dominate them all.

I've known plenty of submissive men --- certainly as many as I've known submissive women. I know plenty of Dominant women who bottom in the bedroom and submissive men who Top there. It works for them.

I think perhaps your problem is that you're defining D/s by sexual practice and that isn't a very acurrate prediction because it's so incomplete. Most of the time people are living their non-sexual lives. That's a far better place to look for clues about their pack status.


-B

 

[sunfox]

Re: Re: Reframed for understanding into sarcasm and disagreement

Further, I think it is impossible for a man to be "naturally" submissive due to the high amounts of testosterone in him. This makes men aggressive. It's just what it does. No way around it. This isn't to say he can't submit, shouldn't submit, or wouldn't like to submit. It is just my opinion that the chemicals prohibit a true natural submissiveness.

Okay, let me address this in my Mutual of Omaha voice. *clears throat*

*booming male voice* Here we have the Alaskan Timberwolf. A beautiful, powerful beast, a pack is run by the pair of alpha wolves, a mated pair that remains together for life when possible. They are the only pair in the pack permitted to have puppies, and are the most magnificent animals, generally.

The female of the pair is the true leader, however.. when she is upset, nothing is spared to make her happy. An alpha female will literally almost kill the males of the pack if they displease her, and a male will never raise a fang to defend himself. *end Mutual of Omaha voice*

You know, you're right. That testosterone, it just makes males so aggressive. Impossible to submit.. it's not natural. You'd never see it happen.

I do believe I've made my point in the most clear way possible. Not only is it natural for a creature laden with testosterone to submit to a female, but it is the norm for most beasts. Like it or not, NC.. we are beasts too. Aggressing a female can only mean bad news, and most male animals seem to understand that.

Being aggressive and territorial.. keeping other males away from your mate.. those are male traits. But not submitting naturally to a female.. well.. tell that to our lead mare, who regularly trounces all the boys, both stallion and gelding, while they flee her wrath to hide behind the humans.

 

[redelicious]

See, the thing is aggressive and submissive are not opposite ideas. Further, aggressive does not equal Dominant (or even dominant for that matter).

Totally different concepts.

 

[Shadowsdream]

Re: Re: Here is a question that feminists would hate

NO!

HA HA HA...Good answer My Friend....enough said!

 

[A Desert Rose]

Re: Re: Re: Here is a question that feminists would hate

HA HA HA...Good answer My Friend....enough said!

So you are not just a bitchy woman with issues about males?

Whew... I'm so glad to know that, because I've always liked you. A lot.

;-)

 

[sunfox]

See, the thing is aggressive and submissive are not opposite ideas. Further, aggressive does not equal Dominant (or even dominant for that matter).

Totally different concepts.

So true.

I'm pretty aggressive by nature. *sighs* Okay. Very aggressive, lest someone that knows me come give me the eye.

But I am equally very submissive by nature.

And yet, I manage to coexist with myself quite peacefully.

 

[Netzach]

Aggression isn't Dominance.

And if T makes you dominant, shit, my tranny boy bottoms haven't gotten the memo.

Nor do all men have the same amount of T. Some women have more than some men. It's not so cut and dried.

You probably don't know any submissive men because you seem unlikely to believe a man can be submissive.

 

[rosco rathbone]

Here's a dominant master's website, the essays in which should set you uppity ladies straight:

http://www.xupstart.com/megapig/index.html

 

[rosco rathbone]

Oh boy, the essay there on the naturalness of male dominance is going to drive you all bonkers.

 

[sunfox]

Yes.. it did drive me bonkers. Why?

Who taught this cretin to write? I think my dog could have done a better job. But once I got past the agonizing grammar and overly flowery method of getting his 'point', such as it was, across... I got actually quite a good giggle from the site.

I would have thought it was a parody site if it wasn't for the apparent belief in his own superiority. To me, it sounds like the pathetic attempt of a man with an inferiority complex to make himself sound intelligent and well-spoken.

I am, perhaps unsurprisingly, only amused.. and not at all convinced. Dominance and submission are not sex based. Sorry, boys. And when you preach "I am man, you little ladies should bow to my masculinity"... it just makes us giggle.. and then make relentless fun of you later, and never call you.

He should really try having a personality instead of relying on the old 'women like assholes' theory.

 

[rosco rathbone]

Yes.. it did drive me bonkers. Why?

Who taught this cretin to write? I think my dog could have done a better job. But once I got past the agonizing grammar and overly flowery method of getting his 'point', such as it was, across... I got actually quite a good giggle from the site.

I would have thought it was a parody site if it wasn't for the apparent belief in his own superiority. To me, it sounds like the pathetic attempt of a man with an inferiority complex to make himself sound intelligent and well-spoken.

I am, perhaps unsurprisingly, only amused.. and not at all convinced. Dominance and submission are not sex based. Sorry, boys. And when you preach "I am man, you little ladies should bow to my masculinity"... it just makes us giggle.. and then make relentless fun of you later, and never call you.

He should really try having a personality instead of relying on the old 'women like assholes' theory.

If you really want to get irritated; take a look at his essay on How To Act At Work. It'll make you want to throw him through plate-glass window and then go shoot your boss in the back of the head.

 

[CharleyH]

Here's a dominant master's website, the essays in which should set you uppity ladies straight:

http://www.xupstart.com/megapig/index.html

Roscoe, my poor dear boy - pat on your head - your need to threaten another person to put me in my proverbial place . . . and the link tells me where your heart is -

 

[CharleyH]

double post

 

[sunfox]

If you really want to get irritated; take a look at his essay on How To Act At Work. It'll make you want to throw him through plate-glass window and then go shoot your boss in the back of the head.

Hell, I wanted to throw him through a window after the first one.

Thank god I'm a student, and not working.

Edited for my piss poor spelling of throw.

 

[sigsauerprinces]

Here's a dominant master's website, the essays in which should set you uppity ladies straight:

http://www.xupstart.com/megapig/index.html

i actually found a lot of what he said pretty interesting. i havent read the whole site yet but i read a few of the essays, and the "slave rules". i found myself agreeing with some of the things he said, suprisingly. and also vehemently disagreeing with others for example "i want you to be more in love with your submission than with me". thats not how my submission works anyways. if that were the case than i could just go submit to any old person, right? thats not me at all-i need to be in love. and the more in love i am, the deeper into my submission i can go.

 

[rosco rathbone]

Roscoe, my poor dear boy - pat on your head - your need to threaten another person to put me in my proverbial place . . . and the link tells me where your heart is -

My heart is with the patriarchs of yore....they went into their wives and they knew them.

I love it.

But, the master pig guy put it a lot better than I ever could.

Especially galling and hard to argue with; is his assertion that. if you haven't yet known the joys of your submission; it's simply because the right dominant master has never come along.....

 

[catalina_francisco]

Females are the dominant sex in most primate communities

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2003/11/1125_031125_primateevolution.html

FYI.

Francisco.

 

[sunfox]

Re: Females are the dominant sex in most primate communities

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2003/11/1125_031125_primateevolution.html

FYI.

Francisco.

A vast majority of animal society is governed to a considerable degree by the females of the species, across the spectrum of mammals and including creatures like the killer whale, in which the pod is matriarchal. Female sharks are frequently larger, and brutal towards their male counterparts. The above Pig page writer is woefully uneducated as to truths of animal nature.

Nice link, Francisco.

 

[Netzach]

My heart is with the patriarchs of yore....they went into their wives and they knew them.

I love it.

But, the master pig guy put it a lot better than I ever could.

Especially galling and hard to argue with; is his assertion that. if you haven't yet known the joys of your submission; it's simply because the right dominant master has never come along.....

It's easy to argue with, my skyscraping chum.

You boys just need a good spanking and you'll come round.

Is this like, the adult playground or what?

 

[rosco rathbone]

It's easy to argue with, my skyscraping chum.

You boys just need a good spanking and you'll come round.

Is this like, the adult playground or what?

I'd be interested to see what you made of that website, oh mighty dommeinatress

 

[NCShin]

I really don't know if I will be able to put into words exactly what I think of all this, but I'll give it a shot.


I agree with some of the things said in the original link, though not all.

I believe that human females biologically are programmed to submit. Sorry if that offends some of you, it is just my belief.

I also believe that females are actually superior to males. It is evident in a number of ways. Males have a higher infant mortality rate, they die of other "natural" reasons younger. They are more susceptible to various illnesses. (heart disease being on the top of that list)

Not only that, but their brains develop differently. I think this is due to thousands of years of evolution. Men would go out to hunt and women would stay around the village and do their thing. Maybe make clothes, gather berries or garden. I'm not expert on what they did exactly, but the point is that they were with each other and talked while they did it.

The men, while hunting, stealth was important. They didn't talk. Over the generations this made women's brains develop better communication skills. This is evident today in kids when the boy tries to ask his crush to a dance (or to dance once there) and stumbles over his words. He knows what he feels, and what he wants to say, but just doesn't have the social skills to get it done too well.

An ever so slight male advantage, with our hunting roots, our brains have a better way of dealing with 3 dimensional spaces. I think that is the root of males generally having an easier time with math than females have.

None of this is to say that these things can't be overcome. Women can certainly have just as good of math skills as men. I just think that for the majority of them, it takes a bit more work. Men can have just as good of communication skills, again, they just take longer to develop and more work on his part.

It would take someone much more educated than me to say if my beliefs hold merit or not. I am neither stating these things as fact nor am I trying to convince you I am right. I am just trying to give you an understanding of my thinking.

 

[sunfox]

I believe that human females biologically are programmed to submit. Sorry if that offends some of you, it is just my belief.

I don't find it offensive to see misled beliefs. I find it sad.

However, that said.. as Francisco ably pointed out with his link.. primates do not show male dominance biologically. We are.. (wait for it) primates.

A + B = C
Primates display natural biological female dominance.
+
We, as humans, are primates.
=
We display natural biological female dominance.

Simple. Do I think every woman is naturally dominant? No. Do I think every woman is different in her level of natural dominance? Yes.

My submission is a personal choice. It feels good, so I do it. It also feels good to eat cheesecake. So I do it. That's not biology. It's a matter of taste and desire. And now I'm hungry.

 

[NCShin]

<edit>
I should say that I read that article to be not about dominance at all, but more about numbers. More females than males.

Females move to larger groups to increase the number of males. (IE increase the size of the genepool)

</edit>

I don't find it offensive to see misled beliefs. I find it sad.

However, that said.. as Francisco ably pointed out with his link.. primates do not show male dominance biologically. We are.. (wait for it) primates.

A + B = C
Primates display natural biological female dominance.
+
We, as humans, are primates.
=
We display natural biological female dominance.

Simple. Do I think every woman is naturally dominant? No. Do I think every woman is different in her level of natural dominance? Yes.

My submission is a personal choice. It feels good, so I do it. It also feels good to eat cheesecake. So I do it. That's not biology. It's a matter of taste and desire. And now I'm hungry.

in the above quote is an example of a woman writing her opinion as fact with no basis to do so. (at least in my VERY limited research)

http://www-personal.umich.edu/~phyl/anthro/femdom.html

There are cases where males and females are equal but there are very few instances where females are dominant.

Examples of species with male dominance: brown capuchins, baboons, langurs, orangutans, chimps.

http://www.csudh.edu/oliver/smt310-handouts/aggresof.htm

In primate societies there is simply a tendency for one male rather than another to take leadership in situations. Among gorillas that tendency is at its peak, so that one male rules and is never disputed. Among baboons the tendency is strong; a few males in the troop will make almost all the decisions, and the dominant rank of one male in relation to another will be quite distinct. The howler, for all his violent vocabulary, asserts the least rank in relation to his fellows. His is the closest to a co-operative, live-and-let-live, equalitarian society to be found in the primate world.

<edit2>
after rereading it, I am even more convinced that it is purely referring to gene pool diversity.

While a single dominant male can monopolize more than one female, Altmann suggested this could be disadvantageous to females because of increased female breeding competition and the danger of outside males killing young they know not to be their own.

Altmann and others suggest females that manage to attract more males to their group would increase mate choice and reduce levels of infanticide. Studies also indicate males are better at detecting and defending against predators.

To pull in additional males there would have to be more females in a group than the alpha male could manage. As numbers grow, his chances of hanging on to his harem lessen. Scientists believe females develop sexual strategies to make this scenario more likely.