How would you feel if your partner confessed that they had raped someone?

[Primalex]

Maybe it has to be one at a time but I can't change men's hearts if you won't listen and most of you men don't.

WE men don't listen? Pleeease.

Just take this thread.

Feminist post #279:"Show me just one country!"
Post #290: Primalex shows one country.
Feminist post #292:"I don't care."


This is the level of debate from alleged adults I have to endure here. Why the fuck should any human, male or female, deal with this kind of crap? You don't want us to listen, you want us to nod without thinking - and no man will do this.

And let's face it, what do you have to say that is worth listening to? In this whole fucking thread there was not a single suggestion how to improve the current system. All I've read was "Men are evil." and "The system is evil." just in different wordings.

And the saddest thing is that Curious_in_Cali wrote some very interesting on-topic questions that nobody cared to answer, like post #55.

 

[Stella_Omega]

There is a minor difference though. If an man is found not guilty of burglary, he is treated as an innocent. If a man is found not guilty of rape, he is treated as a rapist who wrongfully got away.

That is because of the general perception, right or wrong, that many rapists have gotten away.

If we want to change that perception, we will have to make a really big effort to assure women that they will be taken seriously when they talk about rape.

That's going to be difficult. Because women talk to each other. They tell each other about how their rapist got away with it.

 

[Dyslexicea]

Wait, what was the point?!

So much for being flattered.

Dear boy please take my compliment as genuine but my compliment was not just about your beauty, I didn't objectify you as merely a beautiful face and a sexy body. I valued your post and what little I can understand about your personality from those post, finding you to be a rather interesting man.

 

[Dyslexicea]

I fell too far behind in this thread to read everything I've missed, but would this be an accurate summary?

1. Rape is bad (we all agree)
2. False accusations of rape are bad (I think we all agree)
3. Lots of rapes are unreported (but hard to tell how many)
4. Rapes are often unreported because the system is bad

What seems to be left is that we are debating the costs/benefits of a system where more rapists are punished, more rapes will be reported and more false accusations will be made or punished, correct?

Costs/benefits system, you're sounding like a republican. It's surely more costs effective to let a poor starving child die instead of feeding him, especially if his parents don't have a job, morally bankrupt but cost effective.

"more rapes will be reported and more false accusations will be made or punished, correct?" No you are wrong, women who do so are already making those false claims of rape, they do so to punish someone for whatever their reasons may be. Having more women who now don't report rape, at least not to police, doing so is not going to change false accusations.

Rape isn't something new, trying to change how rapist are prosecuted isn't new and the truth is nothing is going to change as far as prosecutions of rapist are concerned, our political class doesn't have the desire to do so. Our only hope is to change a world culture that breeds rapists.

 

[Stella_Omega]

My opinion is that our only hope is to change a world culture that breeds rapists.

My opinion is that is our ultimate hope. But I'll be working on changing the laws as well


Also, you have to wonder; how many women have made one of those false charges only to discover that they are the one on trial, not the guy they accused... And why would they be surprised by that?

 

[stickygirl]

another good punchline; "just because it's already been twisted one way doesn't mean you *have to* twist it the other."

Umm... what's a MRA? Sorry - prob a language thing. Thinking it's unlikely to be a magnetic resonance angiogram

 

[Dyslexicea]

My opinion is that is our ultimate hope. But I'll be working on changing the laws as well


Also, you have to wonder; how many women have made one of those false charges only to discover that they are the one on trial, not the guy they accused... And why would they be surprised by that?

I don't know how many women but I do know some have and they are surprised, no one makes any kind of false charge thinking they're going to get caught.

No one knows how many men who've been falsely charged have done or are doing time in jail. One is too many and it's just one of the reason why men need to fight the rape culture too.

I don't believe most men are rapist. I think most men are decent human beings and are appalled by rape, they just don't think it's common. They don't think they know anyone who's been raped. What they don't realize is victims of rape don't talk about their rape, especially not to men and they don't want it public knowledge. Most men do know at least one woman who's been raped they just don't realize it.

 

[BrightlyGo]

Never defended rapists. Defended the innocent collateral damage. A rapist's family should find out. My point was that targeting an innocent person creates more than one victim.

Rape creates more than one victim by the same mechanism. So does fear or rape or fear of reporting it.

There's just no way it adds up to any conclusion other than: do more to stop rapists. Even if it means innocent men get hurt. Lost of 'em. They'll just have to take some comfort in being martyrs.

Why is it that concern for innocent people is "defending rapists?"

The same reason things like Miranda rights are seen as 'protecting criminals,' because the presumption of innocence is /really/ hard to internalize and stick to. Anything that protects people who /might/ be innocent will also get used to protect people who are guilty. (There's some arcane statistical stuff about the 'accuracy' of 'tests' that it would probably profit us nothing to go into, too.)

A lot of 'judging the victim' stuff comes down to the same thing. It's easier to make snap judgements than keep an open mind, perhaps?

So if the plan is fear mongering by way of vigilantism,
A) first press charges (dont ignore the system entirely)
b) do it anonymously
c) don't get caught

OK. Can't think of a reason not to start with (A).

As far as b & c go, you could take the high road and put it down as 'civil disobedience...'

Stella this would be a good time to let me know if i'm "doing that thing again."

I'm aware that I'm getting close to that period that I just might. It sucks to be forced out of the conversation by... fate? Vagaries of biology? A stupid fucking headache.

??

Umm... what's a MRA? Sorry - prob a language thing. Thinking it's unlikely to be a magnetic resonance angiogram

Men's Rights Activist. A sort of parody of civil rights activism & feminism.

 

[Stella_Omega]

I was wrong when I said 'paranoia' anyway, not completely understanding.

Damn, I wish I could wave a magic wand for you, Stag.

 

[Wyldfire]

Men's Rights Activist. A sort of parody of civil rights activism & feminism.

Damn, bigoted much? A parody? It's as valid as either feminism and civil rights. The way you said that makes me wonder who did you so wrong. I think I agree with my husband about this the more I hear someone talk like that. Time to get further away from "rational" society.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Damn, bigoted much? A parody? It's as valid as either feminism and civil rights.

The things MRA's complain about are;
1) not getting laid,
2) having to pay child support,
2a)seeing their tax dollars go towards women's health,
3) how political correctedness spoils their jokes,
4) why can't women besatisfied with Wonder Woman and let the rest of the heros be men,
5) What kinds of sexual harrassment can a man indulge in nowadays without being talked about for it,
6) not having a good job with more pay, but Hilary Clinton does.

I think that all men deserve rights. There is absolutely no doubt about it. But the men who call themselves MRA are doing men no favors.

The way you said that makes me wonder who did you so wrong.

Really? You have to wonder? You couldn't figure that one out?

I think I agree with my husband about this the more I hear someone talk like that. Time to get further away from "rational" society.

Baby, you're deep in the heart of the tea party, I don't know how much further away from rationality you can possibly get.

 

[KoPilot]

The things MRA's complain about are;
1) not getting laid,
2) having to pay child support,
2a)seeing their tax dollars go towards women's health,
3) how political correctedness spoils their jokes,
4) why can't women besatisfied with Wonder Woman and let the rest of the heros be men,
5) What kinds of sexual harrassment can a man indulge in nowadays without being talked about for it,
6) not having a good job with more pay, but Hilary Clinton does.

I think that all men deserve rights. There is absolutely no doubt about it. But the men who call themselves MRA are doing men no favors.

Really? You have to wonder? You couldn't figure that one out?

Baby, you're deep in the heart of the tea party, I don't know how much further away from rationality you can possibly get.

Things MRAs don't talk about:

-Trans rights (because trans men aren't real men)
-Gay rights (because gay men aren't real men)
-Male rape victims (because prison soap jokes are still funny, and men rapes by women are "lucky")
-Stay at home fathers with breadwinng mothers

Among many other sensibly important issues.

 

[Primalex]

Things MRAs don't talk about:

-Trans rights
-Gay rights
-Male rape victims

You know what - Greenpeace doesn't do this either. So Greenpeace is against gay rights. Hey, Greenpeace doesn't even talk about human and civil rights! So they must believe that humans are worthless.

Correct is of course that gay rights associations were the first MRAs. And the SPR is of course a MRA about stopping rape in prison.

 

[Stella_Omega]

You know what - Greenpeace doesn't do this either. So Greenpeace is against gay rights. Hey, Greenpeace doesn't even talk about human and civil rights! So they must believe that humans are worthless.

Correct is of course that gay rights associations were the first MRAs. And the SPR is of course a MRA about stopping rape in prison.

Greenpeace believes that humans are not worth more than any other species. A lot of humans interpret that to mean "worthless" because that's what they feel about other species.

I think what MRAs (You don't know what MRA means in this context. Google for the definition) think when they hear women say they are worth as much as men are-- must means that men are therefore worthless.

 

[Salenku]

That's not what I said. I said that you are lucky when you have an orgasm despite the guy not knowing what he is doing.

I could have also said that it sounds like an oxymoron - if you are able to make someone orgasm, you seem to know what you are doing.

Are you fucking kidding me?! Orgasm can be forced, as a physical sensation despite pain, bleeding, and tearing. Even for a kid of six. It's not enjoyable, let me tell you. Rethink your posts in future.

I see you get off on trolling the boards and thinking you're clever when you post something inflammatory, but you've hit too close to the bone with this one, sonny boy.

 

[BrightlyGo]

Greenpeace believes that humans are not worth more than any other species. A lot of humans interpret that to mean "worthless" because that's what they feel about other species. .

Sure. Mosquitoes, for instance.

 

[Salenku]

Sure. Mosquitoes, for instance.

Ha! Yes...

 

[BrightlyGo]

The way you said that makes me wonder who did you so wrong..

Hard to say - there are so many valid candidates.

Life Itself, maybe.

 

[Salenku]

I fell too far behind in this thread to read everything I've missed, but would this be an accurate summary?

1. Rape is bad (we all agree)
2. False accusations of rape are bad (I think we all agree)
3. Lots of rapes are unreported (but hard to tell how many)
4. Rapes are often unreported because the system is bad

What seems to be left is that we are debating the costs/benefits of a system where more rapists are punished, more rapes will be reported and more false accusations will be made or punished, correct?

Seems so to me. Whoever has the definitive answer to this problem, do speak up. No one? Shame.... *rolls eyes*

We can debate this until the end of humanity, but lets hope hope future posts will be more considerate than some I have read thus far.

Ps, Marquis, you're incredibly gorgeous! Can I rape you sometime? (Doesn't sound right, does it?). Lets remember not everyone's a rapist? Thanks.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Salenku, you are reaching for the tone argument. A lot of people have used it here; the argument that because someone is angry and lets their anger show, they have lost credibility and can be belittled and ignored.

Have you ever read the letter that Abigail Adams wrote to her husband John Adams? It's delightful, even-handed, not angry at all.

And have you ever read the dismissive, belittling, letter he wrote in response?

They are here; http://history.hanover.edu/courses/excerpts/165adams-rtl.html

ETA: also, are you demanding that someone (not you) solve the problem right this minute or else everyone should shut up about the fact that there is a problem? I hope that's not what you mean.

 

[Primalex]

Are you fucking kidding me?! Orgasm can be forced, as a physical sensation despite pain, bleeding, and tearing.

Where did I say that orgasms can't be forced?

I said that you know what you are doing when you bring someone to orgasm.

I see you get off on trolling the boards and thinking you're clever when you post something inflammatory, but you've hit too close to the bone with this one, sonny boy.

I suggest working on your reading comprehension skill prior lecturing me. You are merely validating my prejudgment about the mental capabilities of women.

 

[stickygirl]

Where did I say that orgasms can't be forced?

I said that you know what you are doing when you bring someone to orgasm.




I suggest working on your reading comprehension skill prior lecturing me. You are merely validating my prejudgment about the mental capabilities of women.

ROFLcopter
Best laugh I've had all day - thanks Prima!! So long as no one takes you seriously you're really good entertainment

 

[ChastitySmith]

His last words would be: "Please don't shoot"

 

[Stella_Omega]

His last words would be: "Please don't shoot"

Would it be that easy for you to shoot someone?
That's not a sarcastic question. I think I am pretty cold-blooded, but ... honestly, I don't know if I could. And I really would like to never have to find out.

 

[Felonious1]

This is a really interesting post.

I can tell you certainly that I would NOT have had sex with her while I was sober, and I said "NO" quite clearly to her advances many times throughout the night, although obviously eventually I gave in.

I didn't consider how similar this is to the rape scenario presented earlier.

Unless we examine our thoughts, acts and/or our past actions outside the box we've built for ourselves...........we, collectively, will never learn, grow or rise above ourselves. That's what many of us are here for. Self-enlightenment that paves the way for self-growth.