Humble questions...

[incubus'_sub]

Alice, perhaps when you have a bit of experience & knowledge of your own you will be in a better position to evaluate this situation as described.

Guys like this are a dime a dozen. He's not really looking for education or wisdom about relationships, he's simply bragging about how on top he is at the moment.

I'm not really expressing concern for anyone over the internet. As you stated, it's a waste of time. I was, however, expressing surprise that some people were egging him on, considering that safety, educated consent and trust in relationships is normally a big issue here.

 

[CutieMouse]

I find myself thinking of Sinn's thread about typing, hitting backspace and deleting.

It would be irresponsible of the Community to not speak out if they felt there was an unhealthy, irresponsible, misguided atempt at BDSM being made.

If he has stuff to work out with his girlfriend- BDSM ain't the way to do it. They can participate in BDSM activities whilst working on their relationship, but announcing Master/slave after an evening's conversation (a week after blackmailing said "slave") is not good BDSM.

 

[Marquis]

It would be irresponsible of the Community to not speak out if they felt there was an unhealthy, irresponsible, misguided atempt at BDSM being made.

I couldn't agree more. In fact, I think this is one of the main reasons we even have a community.

 

[LadyAria]

I would say authority based on wrongdoing on her part is a pretty shitty way to set up a D/s relationship. You wouldn't be the first or last with a setup like that, so if it works for you, go for it.

In fact, maybe in some way we're all caught in that trap. It's hotter when our bitches really do piss us off and we punish them like the canniving cunts they are, maintain strict curfews and actually give a fuck about what they're doing with their free time for once.

All of a sudden EVERYTHING you used to ignore becomes REAL fucking important. The bitch finally gets what she wants. Forget birthdays? You'll be peeking around her ass when she shits to see if it's the right color.

But what happens when you feel safe again? Then she's gone for 5 hours when she just ran out for some paper towels. You'll be too busy with work and other recreational activities to know what the fuck is going on until you find a used condom under your pillow like a present from the emotional enslavement fairy.

And at that point, whether you choke her to death like she wants, or choke it down yourself to spite her, you lose.

Now I know I make all that seem mighty negative, but your alternative sucks just as bad. You could stick with the kind of safe girls that will let you ignore them, and you will; or you can go for the kind of girls who will just leave you when they aren't getting what they want, and they will.

But hey, you asked me to expand so I did. Keep in mind that you're talking to a 23 year old Manic-Depressive who keeps his heart shielded by his pecker at all times. YMMV

Maybe not with the same words, but I agree with the sentiment.

 

[alice_underneath]

Alice, perhaps when you have a bit of experience & knowledge of your own you will be in a better position to evaluate this situation as described.

There is absolutely no sarcasm in my statement when I say: You are right. When it comes to BDSM, I don't know what I'm talking about.

But I can tell you how your post sounds to an inexperienced lurker who has an interest in the Lifestyle.

The clear message to prospective Doms is: come here & ask questions, and unless you are very careful (or already experienced), you will get your nuts cut off.

I am not trying to discourage any of you from exposing dangerous activities or irresponsible attitudes. All I am really suggesting is that you be careful how you do it.

Look at the ratio of Views to Replies on these threads. I'm sure there are many reasons why the ratio is so high. A sense of being intimidated is clearly one of them.

 

[incubus'_sub]

Oh Alice, inexperienced prospective Doms & subs, with genuine interest in the lifestyle, post here every day & they receive the courtesy & patience they deserve.

One of the reasons that inexperienced people get themselves into trouble, emotionally & physically, is because that in all the excitement they sometimes lose the ability to distinguish between those who are really committed to the lifestyle & those who should just be committed.

 

[A Desert Rose]

... in all the excitement they sometimes lose the ability to distinguish between those who are really committed to the lifestyle & those who should just be committed.

aaaaaahahahahaha.

ah, how true, pal.

 

[FurryFury]

Hold up a minute here, what we know is this:

He felt betrayed to some extent by the girl when they were in a nilla relationship.

We know those that want more control exerted over them often "act out," in a usually subconscious attempt to get what they are not even fully aware of that they want.

His eventual response was to tell her, "My way or the highway, when I say jump, you say how high." Personally I prefer "When I say jump you just fucking start jumping, believe me I'll let you know if it's high enough."

Her response to this was to agree and it seemed to him even enjoy the new situation.

So he came here for advice.

Most of the advice he got was to talk with her. He did. She agreed to be what he wanted and I suspect what she also has wanted. Now they have a learning journey to go on together.

Fury

 

[Marquis]

...distinguish between those who are really committed to the lifestyle & those who should just be committed.

Mutually exclusive groups?

 

[Jay Davis]

I'm with Fury in giving LNE the benefit of the doubt here. There are two possibilities, really--either he's an opportunistic jerk, or he's a novice top sincerely looking for advice on how to explore BDSM without injuring his girlfriend or their relationship. If he's the former, nothing we say will matter--no amount of chiding, scolding, threatening, cautioning, or other virtual reprimands are going to stop him from taking advantage of the situation and the woman concerned, nor is any "encouragement" going to make him go farther than he would have gone anyway.

On the other hand, if he happens to be sincere, perhaps our advice and experience, shared with good intent, will help him and his girlfriend on their journey. If he's a jerk, nothing we say will make things better or worse, but if he's being real, there's a good chance we can help him.

Yes, the M/s aspect of this relationship surfaced in a time of emotional crisis, when the vanilla power in the relationship was out of whack. But we've cautioned him rather strongly about building a relationship based on a D/s power exchange when one person feels helpless to refuse to participate, and he seems to have heard us. We've tried to impress upon him the need for willing consent by the submissive partner, and he's apparently "getting it," at least so far.

The truth of the matter is, most people don't discover their interest in dominance and submission in a vaccuum; we trip over it in a less-than-optimal situation, then try to find healthy ways to explore and experience it. Many of us spent months or years in various unhealthy relationships that fed our D/s jones in self-destructive or abusive ways, before we sorted out good D/s from cruel selfishness and a lack of self esteem. If LNE has tripped over a community that can mentor him through that process, then he's both smart and lucky.

One thing, though, LNE--I think we'd have even more confidence in your relationship if we could be more certain that your partner is learning along with you. Any chance of getting her registered here, so she can speak for herself? There's just as much for her to gain from this forum and the materials we've mentioned as there is for you.

 

[shy slave]

WARNING~ This is a rant

Well thanks for the replies everyone...

But the question was never, "Do I love her?" ...because that's no one's decision but mine to make.

LNE

I have finally got through all the replies on this thread.

Love does not always have to have a role in BDSM, its a seperate issue. Love and sex have always been seperate. Its our minds not out bodies that tangle those two things.

Its possible to play with, and fuck someone, we don't love, thats not BDSM or vanilla but simple 'boy meets girl'

Hookers, Madams, professional clubs, private services have been doing that for years.

I like Alices' replies.

Honest and open and they make sense.

As to some of the other replies~
It all amuses me when people say 'communicate, communicate. communicate'

It happens in every walk of life its not an exclusive issue to BDSM.

Yet, no-one ever says exactly what that means!

Everyday expressions mean different things to different people.

Cultural issues within an individual country cause problems (north/south divides etc), take that out to the wider world and it amazes me any of us 'communicate'

Body language on the other hand is fairly universal. Yet on this and other threads communication appears to be about talking not observation.

As for people adding to the discussion who lack experience. It does not detract from their post.
It makes it a more honest and open answer because its read with the understanding that it is based on thought, common sense and perhaps a specific event.

This is an online board, very few of us have met.

The reality is we could be lying, we could say and write as if we have experience yet have never actually been flogged or picked up a flogger.

It is possible to fool people when its online.

I love the fact that people come to Lit and look for advice and information.
But every piece of 'sage advice' needs to be looked at carefully, and the person asking needs to decide whats right for them.

Of course many people here 'say' they are advocate SSC or RACK and I don't doubt that many do subscribe to those theories.

However I do doubt that some people in the BDSM world have the communication skills, levels of experience and knowledge to give safe advice to someone they do not know and have never met.

I don't care about the 'blackmail' issue.
People forgive and work through far worse.

I care that people feel able ask advice without jumping through hoops, I care that people who say they lack experience feel able to contribute and feel their opinion is as valued as anyone else.

 

[lne_iii]

I'm with Fury in giving LNE the benefit of the doubt here. There are two possibilities, really--either he's an opportunistic jerk, or he's a novice top sincerely looking for advice on how to explore BDSM without injuring his girlfriend or their relationship. If he's the former, nothing we say will matter--no amount of chiding, scolding, threatening, cautioning, or other virtual reprimands are going to stop him from taking advantage of the situation and the woman concerned, nor is any "encouragement" going to make him go farther than he would have gone anyway.

On the other hand, if he happens to be sincere, perhaps our advice and experience, shared with good intent, will help him and his girlfriend on their journey. If he's a jerk, nothing we say will make things better or worse, but if he's being real, there's a good chance we can help him.

Yes, the M/s aspect of this relationship surfaced in a time of emotional crisis, when the vanilla power in the relationship was out of whack. But we've cautioned him rather strongly about building a relationship based on a D/s power exchange when one person feels helpless to refuse to participate, and he seems to have heard us. We've tried to impress upon him the need for willing consent by the submissive partner, and he's apparently "getting it," at least so far.

The truth of the matter is, most people don't discover their interest in dominance and submission in a vaccuum; we trip over it in a less-than-optimal situation, then try to find healthy ways to explore and experience it. Many of us spent months or years in various unhealthy relationships that fed our D/s jones in self-destructive or abusive ways, before we sorted out good D/s from cruel selfishness and a lack of self esteem. If LNE has tripped over a community that can mentor him through that process, then he's both smart and lucky.

One thing, though, LNE--I think we'd have even more confidence in your relationship if we could be more certain that your partner is learning along with you. Any chance of getting her registered here, so she can speak for herself? There's just as much for her to gain from this forum and the materials we've mentioned as there is for you.

Heh, well I thank you for your confidence and observation that I am in fact learning things. She appears to be too

I don't know about getting her registered here...I'll think about it.
As of right now this has been my haven, my well of insight and advice heh.

Oh, and Jay...sorry I didn't reply to what you had said earlier in the thread, though I did manage to see it after I posted that reply, your post helped my brain along a bit

Shy, very well said

Again though, agree or disagree with what we're doing here...I still value everyone's opinion. Sometimes even criticism can be helpful.

LNE

 

[lne_iii]

Will it help if we beg?

Just saw this heh...

Mayyyybe.

 

[Jay Davis]

I don't know about getting her registered here...I'll think about it.
As of right now this has been my haven, my well of insight and advice heh.

LNE

Personally, as a sub myself, I think it's important that she have a source of advice, support and fellowship outside of your relationship that is aware of and sensitive to her role as a submissive in the relationship. This is doubly important, I think, because she is the submissive in a Novice/novice relationship, and because the initial spark to explore this form of relationship did not come from her.

Even with the best of care and intentions on your part, there are going to be times when she's going to get nervous or frightened in a not-so-good way. Maybe you'll get carried away and spank a bit longer than she could really handle, or a handcuff might get too tight and pinch a nerve*, or any of a million things that can go a little bit wrong in the middle of a play session. Of course, she needs your care and support through these moments and days (look particularly for writings on aftercare, which is vital with novice submissives), but she'll also benefit from the camaraderie of others who've been on the receiving end of the lash, as it were.

While I understand your desire to keep a given forum as your private refuge, I strongly, strongly encourage you to encourage her to find a support community of your own. Some of the people in this forum participate as couples, with both partners posting to at least some degree. Other partnered people here have this forum as exactly the sort of private support community you're thinking of, and their partner isn't involved here. But whatever the two of you decide, you both need to acknowledge that she is entitled to some sort of support in this area outside of yourself.

One thing that is important to remember in a D/s relationship is that the Dominant only holds as much power over the sub as the sub has consented to give. There are as many different "consent packages" as there are relationships, but in general, and especially early on, assume that you don't have the authority to dictate to her in any area she hasn't expressly consented to that authority. Down the road, the two of you may negotiate/agree to broader, more expansive authority, but for now, as you're both learning, you need to give her all the room she needs to gain as much knowledge as possible from any source--including this one--that she feels can help her.

The key is, don't let her feel isolated in this; in the long run, you'll both be much happier and closer to one another if she feels she is surrendering to you freely, rather than out of desperation.

 

[A Desert Rose]

...I don't know about getting her registered here...I'll think about it.
As of right now this has been my haven, my well of insight and advice heh...

Why is this a secret place only for you? Maybe I've missed something but I don't understand why you keep Literotica a secret from someone you want to have such an openness with...

 

[lne_iii]

Very good points Jay, and you too Rose.

I'll discuss this with her. Maybe have her come onto Lit here...Or she might want to find her own outlet, don't know.

I agree with everything you two said. This is a new experience for both of us, but the difference being that I've had it all in my mind for a while...not specifically about her, but the idea in general. She gives me alot of confidence though, alot of boldness that was needed to really bring all of my desires out into the open like this.

I will speak with her as soon as I can about finding some sort of support for her end as well.

Thanks again!

Oh, btw...everything went great for those that are wondering...might give some details if anyone's interested.

LNE

 

[FurryFury]

Oh I'm interested all right. I'm always interested. Please share.

Fury

 

[Joe Schmoe]

What ever happend to mentoring?

The longer I am in the lifestyle the less and less I hear anyone utilizing it anymore. I get the impression, at times, that what used to be a standard practice has now been tossed out of the window for the fast-food, express lane, instant access mentality.

Oh well, let's learn by our mistakes, right?

 

[Jay Davis]

What ever happend to mentoring?

The longer I am in the lifestyle the less and less I hear anyone utilizing it anymore. I get the impression, at times, that what used to be a standard practice has now been tossed out of the window for the fast-food, express lane, instant access mentality.

Oh well, let's learn by our mistakes, right?

Real mentoring is only available face-to-face. For those among us who don't have the benefit of a local BDSM community for reasons of geography or privacy, forums such as this are the best substitute for a personal mentor that I can think of--though they fall short in many ways.

I think part of what's going on is that as the internet brings openness about BDSM to people who don't have access support, the online community must also step up and serve those people in a mentoring capacity. There are many problems with this--the lack of direct, personal, non-verbal communication being a big one, and the high incidence of inexperienced people offering "expert" advice being another.

But even this sort of online community support is better than no mentoring at all, if you have no other way to find it.

 

[incubus'_sub]

Well, you may believe he's serious & looking for a mentor, I think he's just looking for an audience.

Will the girlfriend be allowed to come here - I think not. His right hand's too busy & his left hand can't type.

 

[FurryFury]

I respect your right to think that but I can think of many reasons why one would find it somewhat restrictive to them to have their SO on the same site with them.

Also I believe that the girl in question is an adult. She could say no. She could find her own support as well.

Fury

 

[seaturtle50]

Alice,

Please be so kind to contact me. I have some good idea's for you - and some things that I want to discuss.

M

 

[Joe Schmoe]

Real mentoring is only available face-to-face. For those among us who don't have the benefit of a local BDSM community for reasons of geography or privacy, forums such as this are the best substitute for a personal mentor that I can think of--though they fall short in many ways.

I think part of what's going on is that as the internet brings openness about BDSM to people who don't have access support, the online community must also step up and serve those people in a mentoring capacity. There are many problems with this--the lack of direct, personal, non-verbal communication being a big one, and the high incidence of inexperienced people offering "expert" advice being another.

But even this sort of online community support is better than no mentoring at all, if you have no other way to find it.

I brought it up only for those off the net, it would be irrelevant if the parties involved were an online relationship.

Those in remote areas are a very small percentage, so they are not part of my question. The vast majority are within distance of a group and/or munch yet asking to be mentored is almost non-existent anymore.

Other than that I agree with all else you have said.

 

[Milambus]

The vast majority are within distance of a group and/or munch yet asking to be mentored is almost non-existent anymore.

Would new people to the scene even know about mentoring? Shouldn't it be the more experienced people offering to mentor new people, or at least suggesting it?

 

[Private_Label]

I brought it up only for those off the net, it would be irrelevant if the parties involved were an online relationship.

Those in remote areas are a very small percentage, so they are not part of my question. The vast majority are within distance of a group and/or munch yet asking to be mentored is almost non-existent anymore.

Other than that I agree with all else you have said.

I have come across men on the internet who refuse to meet face to face at a munch (even one outside of their area) because they are afraid that someone from the non-BDSM side of their life will see them and judge them in a negative light.

lne has asked for assistance, and he was given (by many people) the opinion that he needs to separate the BDSM from the punishment for her misdeeds. He has apparently done that and explained safewords to her as well. So it appears that the consensual aspect has been dealt with for the moment.

All I can add to this discussion at the moment is - words without a facial expression or vocal tone to give us better clues to exactly how LNE meant his words can be taken many many ways. Without knowing his partner or how she feels about the situation from direct communication also adds to us wondering about the other side of the story.

For the moment, I will take his words at face value until such time as he has posted a large body of comments that will give me a better insight into who he is and what his nature is.