I bit it off, now I have to chew it.

[midwestyankee]

In full realization that the gist of this thread has more to do with power exchange than cheap tourism, I just want to point out one local landmark that all Litsters should visit should they ever make it to Manhattan: The Museum of Sex. Here is a Frommer's Guide listing. The museum's own site (here) seems to be down at the moment but it's a fabulously entertaining place and I recall that the admission price was very, very reasonable.

 

[Adakgirl]

I am flying out tonight and I'm so excited.

Other stuff.

We sat down last night and discussed everything. We occasionally have talks where I can step out of my slave shoes for a short while and be more forthright than I am usually comfortable with. This was one of those times. We have resolved our issues over everything.

He has been on the phone all morning sorting out what he can get away with paying this month. He has pulled out the stops and tried everything he can think of plus he got some advice from a friend who has been in the same business for longer.

The result of all this is that he now only needs half the cash that he was told he would. He's been a bit cheeky about negotiating with the local tax office but they have accepted that he made a stupid mistake and are giving him longer to pay. So this morning he gave me back half the sum that he'd taken.

Netz's comment about how it's simpler if he uses my money because he wants to and it's part of our agreed TPE rel than because he needs to is a valid one. I did say to Master that my respect for him was potentially threatened by his apologetic attitude. He thought about that and could see where I was coming from. When he returned the money today he was matter-of-fact about it.

I appreciate that he did what he could to sort out the situation and believe me when I say that he has learned valuable lessons both in finance and in treating his property with the respect that he promised to. He does not intend for this to ever happen again. So right now we both win. I get the money that I wanted for my trip and he gets to pay his tax in a manageable way.

Excellent! Very well done, I commend you. You may want to keep an eye on this though..I mean you DID have to say something for him to realize it and take action. There certainly is no rule that says Masters can't learn valuable lessons from their slaves. He is darn lucky to have you, that's for sure.

 

[Etoile]

This thread has really made me think a lot about my own financial situation.

I know that I would give my wife any money she needed, in a heartbeat, for any reason. We are not TPE or even D/s, but if she needed my money she would have it - even from the account that is for my school tuition. And, I've realized...she does the same thing for me. We've never talked about it this way, but she gives me money whenever I need it. Right now I owe her about $7000 I think, for various expenses that pile up and bills that come due and so forth. I pay it down, it builds back up, and round it goes. I think we just do it because we're partners. Even though our finances are in separate accounts, we still split everything and give each other money as needed, though she's usually the one giving it to me. I think we both assume that because we're "married" our finances are inextricably linked...we know neither of us is going anywhere and we figure it'll even up in the end.

And then there's C. We do have a D/s relationship (not TPE anymore) and yet I would not give em money if e wanted it. The reason is that e is very, very foolish with money. E has been effectively unemployed for almost four years now, with zero income during that time. It's so that e can work on a pet project, and e says e will make millions from it (and I hope e does), but I think it is incredibly stupid for anyone to go without income for so long, especially in NYC, without being incredibly frugal (e is not). I can't accept eir lifestyle even though e is my Daddy. I think it's just plain dumb, and that belief cannot be changed. Then again, I can't force em to go back to work, either. So e's been borrowing money for years. I think eir savings ran out a couple of years ago, and e has borrowed from eir mom, the bank, and...my wife. I'm pretty sure C. owes her at least $13,000.

And I kind of resent that a little bit. I think she shouldn't give em any money, because e is the one who's dug emself into this pit. I don't think she does it because she is submissive to em, I think she does it because she loves em. And yet it's different than with us - she has set up very specific terms for eir repayment, and limits on how much can be borrowed, whereas my arrangement is "pay it when you have it, as much as I have to give you."

So yeah, I have a Daddy who is very, very dumb with finances, and looks to my wife for support. I think it's ridiculous...but then again, I look to her for support too. On the other hand, I have a job, heh.

Yeah, this thread has got me pondering lots of things.

 

[graceanne]

WARNING: I am not an accountant. I am asking the questions my accuontant asked me, and I am only an internet idiot saying that. BUT

are you dividing the footprint of your house that is his workspace and writing that off if you rent? Storage of all his nerd detrius (we have lots, but M is not self-employed) 1/2 client meals if any meetings? Anything whatsoever done to the comp, any outside repairs. Anything bought for research, books on his industry.

Sorry. As you can see I default to solution mode myself. I just hate to see people unhappy or paying more than they should.

This is why accountants pay for themselves. My mom used to do our taxes, once we were electronically filing our taxes and the lady said 'i can get you more back'. We decided to a small gamble and she got us 300 dollars more, by things like . . . I can count a good deal of my rent, because I do day care in my house. K can write his tools off on taxes, when he buys news ones, cause he uses them at work. Etc.

That said, a lot of people don't realize how much they can write off. Today I got paid for some daycare I did. I wrote her out a receipt for her taxes. She gave me a very puzzled look. I said 'KEEP THAT, next year you can write off on your taxes.' She had no idea! I wonder how much more she could have got back in the last two years if she'd known that.

In your case, VB, he might not get more back, but he might pay less - so the accountant will still pay for herself. Lets say your taxes are 1500 (just a round figure) and the accountant can knock it down to 1000 - you just saved 500 and her fees are . . . what? 75, 100 dollars? (Oh and Jackson Hewitt ROCKS. )

 

[sexycaz22]

I did do that but stepping out of my slave shoes wasn't really the issue. I wouldn't want anyone to think that I got what I wanted by putting the M/s dynamic on hold. Sometimes we need to have discussions that are easier if I speak more freely and am less deferential but they are always within the bounds of respect and at all times he remains my owner.

Just wanted to clarify that.

*nods* I wasn't thinking in that terms, but thank you for making it more clearer.

 

[Bunnytrax]

ok so forgive me all...but I just can't wrap my mind around this. Yes people make mistakes and yes you agreed to the TPE but draining your saving just adds to his mistakes..it doesnt' really solve them. It reflects very poorly on him IMHO

 

[ownedsubgal]

As I'm having a Netz quotathon today ~ anything that doesn't suck is a gift from L. That is indeed how it works.

that's a good one, think i'll have to post it on the bathroom mirror to help me keep perspective during those difficult times. Velvet, i'm so glad that you've overcome this little hurdle now, and so glad that you've brought some attention to the everyday realities of slavery that have nothing to do with kink or sex, things real folks living real lives have to deal with all the time.

i remember having a very similar reaction/feeling the first time my Master took a significant sum of "my" money. not that i was loaded or anything, i'd only been working menial jobs, but i've always been a good saver and through being thrifty i had built a fairly comfortable cushion for myself in both a checking and savings account. well one day he said he needed to take the money out...pretty much all of it...to take care of some pressing financial issue he'd been dealing with for several years. nothing irresponsible on his part, he'd been steadily paying down a debt. but with the money from my accounts he could pay these things off and never have to worry about them again. on the one hand i was happy that he wouldn't have that burden on his mind anymore, and on the other i was like omg! it took me years to save that little bit of money, now i'm dead broke! now of course the reality was i was a slave, and that money had ceased to be mine the moment i became his property. but i wasn't thinking about it like that at the time...just typical M/s growing pains. you get over it, see it for what it is, accept it, say "dang i was an idjit", move on.

 

[ReadyOne]

This is why accountants pay for themselves. {snip}

That said, a lot of people don't realize how much they can write off. Today I got paid for some daycare I did. I wrote her out a receipt for her taxes. She gave me a very puzzled look. I said 'KEEP THAT, next year you can write off on your taxes.' She had no idea! I wonder how much more she could have got back in the last two years if she'd known that. {snip}

Assuming you are in the great U. S. of A....

DOOOOO be careful with child care expenses; documentation has caused tons of trouble. A person is very limited in what they can pay someone for childcare before becoming their employer. Worse yet, matching is done between those who claim child care deductions and those who report income.

You may find your records (or lack) may cause problems for her, and her records (or lack) may cause problems for you. Even congressmen have had trouble with the IRS over this matter.

If the amounts are anything but trivial, her deduction will have to state you as whom she paid. They will look to see that you not only reported as income what she paid you, but that she did the paperwork to make you an employee of hers.

Plus, she would have to deduct social security (FICA) for you as her employee, and then pay the same amount again as the employer's share of FICA. NOT a fun thing.

 

[intothewoods]

Despite my earlier negativity (for which I apologize - way to bring your own issues into the thread, self! ), I think this is really part of the growing pains of any cohabitation/marriage relationship. If you're married, for the most part your property becomes shared. Obviously M/s is a different dynamic, but the weathering financial strain together is the same.

It sounds like he took responsibility for the mistake, and tried to correct it, and it sounds like you did a good job of voicing your concerns.

 

[graceanne]

Assuming you are in the great U. S. of A....

DOOOOO be careful with child care expenses; documentation has caused tons of trouble. A person is very limited in what they can pay someone for childcare before becoming their employer. Worse yet, matching is done between those who claim child care deductions and those who report income.

You may find your records (or lack) may cause problems for her, and her records (or lack) may cause problems for you. Even congressmen have had trouble with the IRS over this matter.

If the amounts are anything but trivial, her deduction will have to state you as whom she paid. They will look to see that you not only reported as income what she paid you, but that she did the paperwork to make you an employee of hers.

Plus, she would have to deduct social security (FICA) for you as her employee, and then pay the same amount again as the employer's share of FICA. NOT a fun thing.

Actually I'm self employed. I have my own tax id and everything. i've been doing day care for forever, and I document EVERYTHING.

 

[catalina_francisco]

that's a good one, think i'll have to post it on the bathroom mirror to help me keep perspective during those difficult times. Velvet, i'm so glad that you've overcome this little hurdle now, and so glad that you've brought some attention to the everyday realities of slavery that have nothing to do with kink or sex, things real folks living real lives have to deal with all the time.

i remember having a very similar reaction/feeling the first time my Master took a significant sum of "my" money. not that i was loaded or anything, i'd only been working menial jobs, but i've always been a good saver and through being thrifty i had built a fairly comfortable cushion for myself in both a checking and savings account. well one day he said he needed to take the money out...pretty much all of it...to take care of some pressing financial issue he'd been dealing with for several years. nothing irresponsible on his part, he'd been steadily paying down a debt. but with the money from my accounts he could pay these things off and never have to worry about them again. on the one hand i was happy that he wouldn't have that burden on his mind anymore, and on the other i was like omg! it took me years to save that little bit of money, now i'm dead broke! now of course the reality was i was a slave, and that money had ceased to be mine the moment i became his property. but i wasn't thinking about it like that at the time...just typical M/s growing pains. you get over it, see it for what it is, accept it, say "dang i was an idjit", move on.

LOL, it does bring home to you what you have agreed to and entered into. I am surprised there is mention of it being paid back as like you say, for us in our reality I own nothing as it has all become his property. I sold my house when I moved here, and that money was used to pay debts he had and cover some other expenses that arose. Bottom line is it was a significant amount of money as my house was only owing $10,000 on it when I sold it at substantial profit so that left the balance I received as more than a trifling amount...but I understood it would then become his if he so chose, and so these days it is no longer at my disposal, nor will it be repaid to me.

Catalina

 

[Netzach]

I don't think most 24 year olds are in a position to have anything in place in case they're in a plane that goes down, ergo putting back whatever you take out may be the best/only way to ensure that your cherished property is not totally fucked in the parlance.

 

[intothewoods]

I don't think most 24 year olds are in a position to have anything in place in case they're in a plane that goes down, ergo putting back whatever you take out may be the best/only way to ensure that your cherished property is not totally fucked in the parlance.

Yeah. And once it's all sorted out, you might want to talk about savings and retirement.

 

[Etoile]

I don't think most 24 year olds are in a position to have anything in place in case they're in a plane that goes down, ergo putting back whatever you take out may be the best/only way to ensure that your cherished property is not totally fucked in the parlance.

Absolutely right. I think it should be mandatory that everyone over 18 in the U.S. (and elsewhere as applicable) must write a legally valid will. And an advance directive/living will too, for that matter. MANDATORY.

 

[ammre]

er, I don't have a lot of good advice for the financial issue and the stress it relates except to say this happens in nilla ways too...


but you really shoudl have told us earlier abotu the trip to nyc... I would have taken you out for bad tourist stuff... I love getting to expierence my city from a visitor's eyes.

 

[graceanne]

Absolutely right. I think it should be mandatory that everyone over 18 in the U.S. (and elsewhere as applicable) must write a legally valid will. And an advance directive/living will too, for that matter. MANDATORY.

Why have a will if you don't own anything? "Um, I leave my debt to my children. Hope they enjoy it."

 

[Rosie_Riveter]

Why have a will if you don't own anything? "Um, I leave my debt to my children. Hope they enjoy it."

If your children are young, you need to designate someone to be their guardian.

 

[callinectes]

If your children are young, you need to designate someone to be their guardian.

Nods vigorously. Yes, Grace..you must have one for that reason if for no other. Do you really want the probate judge deciding who will rear your children? The judge will pick someone that looks good on paper..and they may not be the best choice. You can find fill-in-the blank wills on-line for free. As young as you are, you can also get some pretty cheap life insurance..you should really consider that as well.

As far as a living will, everyone should have one so their wishes will be known. If you want to be Terry Schiavo, that's great, but it would make life easier for everyone involved if they knew for sure what was what you wanted.

/responsibility lecture

 

[catalina_francisco]

Why have a will if you don't own anything? "Um, I leave my debt to my children. Hope they enjoy it."

With children it is wise in terms of designating who you want to raise them, and to ensure if there are any personal or family inherited pieces to be dealt with, that your children get them and not some charity or rubbish tip. Apart from that, while you may not have anything you consider worthwhile at this very moment in time, you may by some chance at some point have something and if the unmentionable happens before you make provisions, it could be to late. For example, one of the things I designated through a will was copyright to my writing, photography and art.

Catalina

 

[dave's thing]

I did do that but stepping out of my slave shoes wasn't really the issue. I wouldn't want anyone to think that I got what I wanted by putting the M/s dynamic on hold. Sometimes we need to have discussions that are easier if I speak more freely and am less deferential but they are always within the bounds of respect and at all times he remains my owner.

Just wanted to clarify that.

only My opinion:
I did read the whole thread with great interest. Not once did I feel any disagreement with any thing any body said. The outcome, is very successful. The most important thing through out the thread is that every body deals with trauma differently. I think vd doing as she said above was the very proper thing to do and I applaud her for it.



and the best part is her awaited trip to NYC can be a little more mind troubling free. ENJOY THE TRIP

 

[graceanne]

Ah the designating who should take my children thing . . .

NO ONE!

Both our familys are FUCKED UP, we don't want anyone to have them. That said, if we don't designate anyone my mom will probably end up with them - she'll fight the hardest to get them, and if necessary will fight dirty.

 

[Etoile]

Ah the designating who should take my children thing . . .

NO ONE!

Both our familys are FUCKED UP, we don't want anyone to have them. That said, if we don't designate anyone my mom will probably end up with them - she'll fight the hardest to get them, and if necessary will fight dirty.

Which is why you DO have to designate somebody. It can be anybody, though...if you have friends that you trust who would be willing to take care of your kids just in case, put them down. Otherwise your family WILL get them.

 

[graceanne]

Which is why you DO have to designate somebody. It can be anybody, though...if you have friends that you trust who would be willing to take care of your kids just in case, put them down. Otherwise your family WILL get them.

I'd rather my family than anyone else. And I'd rather my mom than any of the rest of my family. To tell the truth their's no one we'd like to have them that WANTS them. I'd love my aunt to have them, but she's getting older and doesn't really want to worry about raising kids. (She said 'well i you can't find anyone else') I want the kids to go to someone who wants them. K'd like his brother to get them, and I think he's fucking HIGH. His brother has been sober a total of 8 non-consecutive years since he was 12 years old. If it'd been 8 consecutive years I'd consider it, but he really struggles to stay sober. He's a piece of shit, frankly. And my mom is a controlling pain in the ass, but she's sober and she'll try her darndest.

 

[EmpressFi]

This reminds me of a conversation I had recently with my best friend.

She's a wonder to me. She doesnt understand why Malin and I are poly, but accepts us and it. She knows Master and is fully supportive of us too. Recently, I realized that if, god forbid, something happened to both Malin and I, there was no one in our immediate family who would know to notify Master. So I talked to my friend and asked her if she'd do that for me. It was then that she asked me if it was ok with her that should something happen to her, if I would take custody of her son.

It's an odd thing we start thinking about sometimes, but I believe it's good to be prepared. When my mother died, it was so sudden and none of us knew where she kept her papers or if she had life insurance... it was a mess.

Preparing for injury ( I agree with having an advanced directive) and death is imperative, as important as having life insurance in taking care of your family.

 

[graceanne]

I have an advanced directive. K's in charge of my health care if I can't make decisions, and if he can't my step dad is. I actually asked my mom, and she requested I not do that to her - cause she could never sign for them to pull the plug on me, and T could if it was best for me.