I've figured it all out

[Svenskaflicka]

Dear Swede,
Nicely put. If anyone has the right to feel that way, it's you.
MG

Thanks. I don't get it, but thanks.

 

[BlackSnake]

Mlle,

Giving the issue you are talking about more thought, I would have to say that you have a good point.

I think I used up my "speaking for women" token, I think they should clear that up.

Why don't women treat white men and black men the same? Meaning black women and white women. God help us if they say "because they are different".

 

[Svenskaflicka]

The way of the WASP-world, BS.

White men are in power, heal diseases, defend criminals, and work with computers. Black men are great at sports and dancing. White women teach school children, sew quilts, and act in porno movies. Black women work at McDonalds, watch Oprah, and bake sweet potato pie.

 

[MlledeLaPlumeBleu]

Hejsan

Svenska, I think you have hit on the underlying cause of what I was trying to say; you'll find some of the same oppressive social sanctions in the latin cultures- macho is very much the thing. And no, overwhelmingly, role models for young black men are not "positive" in an intellectual/social aspect. Interestingly enough, I feel like it used to be very different in Finland (and I assume Sweden) just ten years ago. Now it seems the whole "gansta" culture has become a lot more prevalent and widespread among kids, and the Americanized image of the black male- rapping, sports, macho- seems to have permeated the self-perceptions of black european males as well.

I think that in America the whole macho phenomenon is an outgrowth of trying to regain personal power after oppression and social inequality- unfortunately, this method requires that they oppress/marginalize or are intolerant of someone else- namely women and homosexuals.

mlle

 

[MlledeLaPlumeBleu]

Svenska!

Exactly. Black men, women and gays have all been relegated to the outside. There are exceptions, but as a rule, we're all in the same boat. I guess that's why I think it's unfortunate that men who have been socially oppressed would seek to do the same thing to others.

 

[Svenskaflicka]

Unfortunately, yes. The gangsta cult has spread to Sweden, and a lot of kids have adopted it, especially immigrant children. There are still many who will just sigh impatiently when these Bad Boys will start yapping their ridiculus rant about crimes and enemies and nonsense like that. Usually, I don't get involved. I know I could say a few well-chosen words to them, but their minds aren't ready yet. So, I just and walk away, humming
"I'll see you when you get there,
if you ever get there..."

 

[BlackSnake]

The way of the WASP-world, BS.

White men are in power, heal diseases, defend criminals, and work with computers. Black men are great at sports and dancing. White women teach school children, sew quilts, and act in porno movies. Black women work at McDonalds, watch Oprah, and bake sweet potato pie.

Damn!

Let me see:
I have three white women, one black woman, one white man working under my direction.

I have a Bachelor of Science degree in Computer Science and Information Systems

I was a police officer for two years until my dad died doing the same job. I'm still qualified as a first responder.

I teach two classes called "Graphics for Web Designers" and "TKD for Women" (mainly removing fear).

I do have six first place swimming trophies from my teenage years.

I believe that I'm among the USG has as far as programmers go, since they are adopting one of my programs for the entire University System in Georgia.

And to play along with the stereotype: "I like big butts and I can not lie..."

 

[Svenskaflicka]

You're a social mis-fit.

 

[BlackSnake]

Hmmm,

Homosexuals, haven't given it much thought even though I've recieved a few PM's. I don't throw bricks, but just like a lesbian won't have sex with me because I'm a man, I won't have sex with a homosexual because I'm not homosexual.

Gosh dang! I don't have an answer for you.

When J ( the white man that I supervise) have issues I jump on it just as quickly as I would anyone else. When he is playing music I don't like, I make no comments or sugguestions, because it has nothing to do with work. Now I have checked out the ladies butts that I supervise, but I have made no comments or been obvious with it. I don't play favorites not matter what. It doesn't serve the work we do. Every ones comments are valuable. That's what make my team great.

I've been on the hard roads, chased, shot at, called names because of the color of my skin. But you know what, my mother wouldn't allow hateful responses towards anyone; white, black, homosexual, lesbian, or other. It doesn't serve me.

 

[BlackSnake]

You're a social mis-fit.

I think it works for me

 

[Svenskaflicka]

It's OK to think whatever one wants, and to phantasize about anything and anyone, as long as one doesn't act on it or blurt it out.

I don't like labels. I enjoy messing with people's heads. For the longest of time, people in my town have thought they have had me figured out; a chubby slut who likes immigrants. A few weeks ago, this bunch of immigrant boys stared at me with REALLY big eyes when I was standing chatting cheerfully with a groups of nazis. One of them is a pal of mine. These guys are not that bad, as long as you don't talk politics with them. I don't like their ideas, but as long as they don't mention them or act on them, I have nothing against these guys. We chatted about driver's license training, aura photography, finding water with the help of a ring dangling from a string, etc. It was nice.

And the immigrant boys didn't know what to think.

They'll be even more confused in September, when Hubby comes over.

 

[MlledeLaPlumeBleu]

BS- I treat them the same on a case by case basis, once I've gotten to know them.

But the answer would be, because they treat US differently.

The difference is that my initial perception of a black man is often tainted by the realization that he doesn't respect my gender. By in large white men have at least been forced to either: accept women as people, or hide their socially unacceptable views.
Black men tend to view interacting with women as a racket; cast the wide net, use the line, and in a lot of cases, this is indiscriminate- if she's a woman and reasonably attractive, well, give it a shot.

But nobody likes feeling like they're having an angle worked on them. And that accounts for the majority of the negative responses- someone not giving you the intellectual credit of a better approach, assuming you aren't going to realize it's a boilerplate come-on. There's that initial disrespect, and then, if you have the nerve to be annoyed, there's the secondary reaction "you bitch, who the fuck do you think you are?"

And how flattered are you going to be if the same guy who just tried to pick you up goes on down the line until he finds a taker? Especially if some of those women are not too "money"...

The "I love women" shit doesn't exactly ring true when the same guy turns around five minutes later pissed off because someone rejected his lines or his insincerity, saying "that bitch, I'd like to give her a piece of my mind". That mindset says to me- "yeah, I love women- I love them on their knees, I love them from behind, I love them making dinner-" but I don't respect their basic right to object to being treated as less than human.

But "loving" women- the use of them- and respecting women, is totally different. And unfortunately, because of the majority of black mens' views toward me, I have developed a wariness of their motives.

CLEARLY- this is not the case with all black men. I'm just giving you an honest answer, BS, as to why a lot of women seem unreceptive at first.

mlle

 

[BlackSnake]

...

They'll be even more confused in September, when Hubby comes over.

I'm sure you will be way too happy and busy to remember you thought about what they would think.

 

[Svenskaflicka]

I find it kinda funny when a guy labels a woman as the exact opposite of what she proves herself to be:

"Hey, baby! Wanna go over to my place and fool around?"
"No! Leave me alone!"
"You fucking slut!"

 

[Svenskaflicka]

It's weird. We had our first fight about one or two weeks ago. Now that everything is back to normal, I feel even more in love with him than before.

 

[BlackSnake]

Mlle,

I don't blame you for that. I've been guilty of the tactic myself, but without the reaction. Mama told me about talking about people, it will get back quickly. And, it's my understanding, that some women will mention the incident to their friends. "talk about not being able to get laid"

But, what you are saying is very serious. I did the "you're awesome if you're with me" thing. I was on a three hour deadline, for an excuse. That's about the longest I spent in any club.

I've fought against barriers, but I have plenty friends, so I wasn't that pressed. It's easy to resist if you have nothing to loose.

Remember this, guys have to protect themselves too. A few women have caused me to get a lump in my throat. I chose to steer clear, because the price is too high.

Sometimes guys fireback, because they are hurt. Not embarrassed in front of their friends, but cut deep.

Women have a lot more effect on some men than they realize. Case and point. The same phrases you spoke of I've heard them before. Firing back is a reaction not a plan.

Talk with a woman that has given some macho knuckle head a chance. I'm willing to bet, that the guy begs her for attention and calls her non-stop. But, to his pals he's king shit.

I think there's little worst than heartbreak. Maybe that's just my thing or a man think, but just the thought of it makes me shake.

 

[Svenskaflicka]

But we're grown ups. We have to act like grown ups. A boy may feel hurt over rejections, and throw himself on the floor, kicking and screamin. A MAN has to keep himself above that. So a woman doesn't want you. Boo-hoo. Have a beer and feel sorry for yourself for a couple of minutes, then move on. But don't lower your scores even more by acting like a grumpy teenager! Women talk. Women gossip. The ladies' room is always full of information about the guys outside the door. Your behaviour will be mentioned.

How do you want them to talk about you? As a nice guy, just nothing for me; or a childish moron with a bad vocabulary?

 

[destinie21]

Babes dressing in next to nothing. They do know what they are doing, the effect they will and do cause.

It's like the same game I played in my early twenties at the night clubs. It was almost a good think when a hottie shot me down, because that only meant that I was getting closer; playing the odds.

These babes don't want even the best looking guy to look at her and say to himself "Look at rack on that doe, I want to fuck her". She want's him to look at her and say to himself "she's the most beautiful woman I have ever seen in my life. I want to marry her and charish her for the rest of my life."

Talk about pipe dream. The only guys that would be thinking about marrying a babe nearly naked in public is those who just want pussy in their bed every night.

Ding! Ding! The number one reason for getting married: to have
pussy in the bed every night.

Okay here goes, I'm a 21 y.o black woman and I have been on both sides. I have dressed in clothes that are revealing short skirts half shirts the whole none yards. However I didn't do it for the reasons you've stated as I am a bit of a lesbian and all. I have also dressed in business suits and conservative clothing (which indecently is more to my personality), the reasons. In my younger years i.e. 18-20 I dressed in the aforementioned tube tops ect..... because I liked the way I looked I'm in shape, tall, toned and the like, but as I matured I came to terms with a couple of things (mainly I had a bit of an ugly duckling syndrome going on) But I did notice one thing when I'm dressed conservatively I get come ons but not exactly the same type that I got when my clothing denoted "skankiness". males and females seem to be a little more respectful in general based on my attire. Which I find a bit offensive as I've always maintained my intelligence as well as my own personal moral code which includes not sleeping with anyone on the first date, not to mention my personality. However I can sympathize with the fact that when my breasts and legs are on display that most people I encounter probably aren't thinking of debating the merits of estrogen based beauty versus genetic code. While I can sympathize I still find myself disenchanted that such stereotypes still run rampant as if a woman can't be both intelligent and blatantly sexy or that a woman who wears revealing clothes must somehow be lacking or my "favorite" That all woman want is a husband and maybe a couple of kids to round off her dream life. puh-leze

As I rattled on for quite long enough now I'm not even going to address The racial issues and options shared here. perhaps another time then.

 

[BlackSnake]

Re: Re: I've figured it all out

.....

Please do return. I'm feeling like a sponge.

This is some good stuff. However, read closely before addressing sexual and racial issues.

So far, I haven't heard much that I disagree with.

You mentioned first date. It's funny that when I stopped going to clubs and dating, things started looking up. Go figure.

Gotta go home now. BFN ("Sleepless in Seattle") love that movie.

 

[Lovepotion69]

I'm gonna come up with a decent reply when I have had time to read through the thread.

Can't say I'm known for being dressed in short skirts etc. Heck, if I had the body for it I might! Not all the time though. I think it suits some people and others not. If it's for a special occasion, then it's cool, but every day? Don't think so.

Being half dressed at a club? I don't mind that. You want people to look at you. But it sure ain't a husband you're looking for! Half dressed I'd expect men to only be interested in sex. Appearances count. You send out different signals depending on the way you present yourself. Do what you want as long as you time it with the appropriate time and place.

 

[MlledeLaPlumeBleu]

I agree, we've all evolved a little past that. Women are sexual beings, and they might not be attracted to any given man for a variety of reasons: too old, too young, too black, too white, too much of an asshole, too clingy, just not the right type- or, even "seeing as they're a bit of a lesbian" (you made me crack up on that one, Destinie

Just because a woman is dressed in a manner advertising that sexuality and satisfaction with herself, does not entitle every man to a shot- not in bed, not on a date, not even a conversation- unless she feels attracted to him.

And to pick on middle-aged white guys for a minute- Christ, have you heard some of the griping about "young women, flouncing around, dressed like that- they know what they're doing to us". No, they don't. They don't think about you *at all*. She isn't dressing for you. They're dressed like that for the nice young boys who are flexing their arms and loitering around in much the same manner. It doesn't even occur to a young girl that a man she thinks of as a contemporary of her daddy- who was in all likelyhood a supportive, protective figure- is eyeing her as a potential cunt donor. When we're young, we live under the illusion that all older people have self-control and a basic sense of benevolent authority. So get a grip, Humbert Humbert. Little girls aren't taunting you with their hot pants.

The huge irony, of course, similar to the one that Svenska pointed out, is that these middle-aged men are angry about being "teased" and rejected- ("resisted") but have no concept of the idea that young girls just might not want older men- although apparently, their rejection of the older *women* who are their peers makes perfect sense.

*laugh* Ok, now I've pissed off "the Man".

 

[Svenskaflicka]

A friend of mine punished a guy who was staring at her breasts instead of looking into her eyes when he spoke to her.

My friend M and her friend L were out clubhopping. They came to this bar where L knows the bouncer. She went over and said "Hi, remember me?", and he stared at her huge cleavage and said "uh-huh..." She grinned and asked "remember these, too?" He still didn't take his eyes away from her breasts, but nodded. "Wanna get to know these, too?" said L, and pulled M up to the bouncer. He turned and stared at M's breasts too.

They chatted a little, L & M went inside, looked around, ran into A, and went back outside. The bouncer was now all red and panting, since A was even larger than both L and M (who are Big).

"Want to come with us and party?" said L, leaning over the fence outside the club.
"Ehmm..."
"Come on, wouldn't you like to party with the three of us?" said A.
"Oh, shit... I won't get off my shift until 3am..."
"Well, if you don't want to have fun with us..." said M. "Then we'll go home now..."
L & M leaned close to A; M moved her hand over A's leg, L moved her hand over A's chest.
"Well... wait! I might get someone to cover for me! Please! Just wait half an hour!"
"Nope!" said M. "Let's go home, girls!"
"Yeah," said L. "We'll just to have to settle for a threesome tonight..."

And off they wandered, hand in hand, leaving a heartbroken bouncer with a hardon.

I think he's responsible for many, many, many porn stories online today.

 

[Svenskaflicka]

The huge irony, of course, similar to the one that Svenska pointed out, is that these middle-aged men are angry about being "teased" and rejected- ("resisted") but have no concept of the idea that young girls just might not want older men- although apparently, their rejection of the older *women* who are their peers makes perfect sense.

*standing ovation*

Hear, hear!

 

[Guest]

I think he's responsible for many, many, many porn stories online today.

Flicka-mou, I love you! I am LOL so hard, and happy. I wish I had known someone like you 30 years ago.

muchos bessos, Perdita

(Mlle: I am quite shareable, P.)

 

[destinie21]

BS- I treat them the same on a case by case basis, once I've gotten to know them.

But the answer would be, because they treat US differently.

The difference is that my initial perception of a black man is often tainted by the realization that he doesn't respect my gender. By in large white men have at least been forced to either: accept women as people, or hide their socially unacceptable views.
Black men tend to view interacting with women as a racket; cast the wide net, use the line, and in a lot of cases, this is indiscriminate- if she's a woman and reasonably attractive, well, give it a shot.

But nobody likes feeling like they're having an angle worked on them. And that accounts for the majority of the negative responses- someone not giving you the intellectual credit of a better approach, assuming you aren't going to realize it's a boilerplate come-on. There's that initial disrespect, and then, if you have the nerve to be annoyed, there's the secondary reaction "you bitch, who the fuck do you think you are?"

And how flattered are you going to be if the same guy who just tried to pick you up goes on down the line until he finds a taker? Especially if some of those women are not too "money"...

The "I love women" shit doesn't exactly ring true when the same guy turns around five minutes later pissed off because someone rejected his lines or his insincerity, saying "that bitch, I'd like to give her a piece of my mind". That mindset says to me- "yeah, I love women- I love them on their knees, I love them from behind, I love them making dinner-" but I don't respect their basic right to object to being treated as less than human.

But "loving" women- the use of them- and respecting women, is totally different. And unfortunately, because of the majority of black mens' views toward me, I have developed a wariness of their motives.

CLEARLY- this is not the case with all black men. I'm just giving you an honest answer, BS, as to why a lot of women seem unreceptive at first.

mlle

I've never really thought about this pov before . Many of the black guys( or guys of any race for that matter) I meet don't come off as misoginistic nor do they openly debase woman. (that is not anymore than woman openly "dog" men.) Prehaps people are just recived in the manner that they are precived) Also there are always those men who are jerks or feel like it's their personal duty to badger or harass you (that would include those who think harass is two words) but I find that this is based on personality or beliefs of entitlment rather than race. And in my humble opion age has something to do with it as younger men seem a bit more arrogant on the whole.