Judge Engoron's $355 Million Fine Against Donald Trump May Have Far-Reaching Consequences

[Sean Renaud]

In order for that to be the case, the bank would equally be guilty of fraud. So why isn't the bank being found guilty and fined as well?

Presumably the bank(s) didn't know.

 

[SgtSpiderMan]

If the footage assessment doesn't matter, throw in whatever figure you want.

Either the bank agreed with it, thus putting them in the same category of Trump for 'fraud', or it wasn't a metric by which they made their own value assessment.

Either the bank is guilty of the exact same 'fraud' as Trump, or the bank didn't use footage as a value determination metric.


That's exactly how it works.

That’s a great question and one I already asked and you avoided.

That isn’t how square footage works. The square footage of a place doesn’t change based on splitting it into more rooms.

 

[TastySuckToy]

Absolute bullshit. My pizza is a small pizza worth $1 abut I claim it's an extra large with stuffed crust and thus its worth $20 I am guilty of fraud. This is not complicated.

Let's just use your analogy: if your customer agrees with that claim after doing their own assessment of the pizza, they are guilty of fraud as well, correct?

 

[TastySuckToy]

Presumably the bank(s) didn't know.

If the banks didn't know what the footage is after doing their own property value assessment, then footage wasn't a metric of value assessment, therefore claiming fraud on that basis is absolutely nonsense.

If they did know footage but went with the claimed false figure, then they are guilty of the same 'fraud' that Trump is. So why aren't the banks being found guilty and fined for fraud?

 

[SmokingFap]

Nearly everything you say is dum. Not quite as dumb as the crap ninnygirl spews, but still dum nonetheless.

Ouch. That hurt.

 

[Bray123]

In order for that to be the case, the bank would equally be guilty of fraud. So why isn't the bank being found guilty and fined as well?

The bank is a victim of fraud. That's a difficult concept I know, but when a person falls for a scam it doesn't make them a scammer. The bank didn't rip Trump off no matter how you wish it were true.

Some people are losers and suckers, some people are grifters.

 

[TastySuckToy]

The bank is a victim of fraud.

No, they're not. They did their own property value assessment and agreed with Trump.

So either they're guilty of agreeing with Trump's supposed 'fraudulent' asset evaluation and are also guilty of fraud, or there is no fraud here.

The banks made money off of Trump.

In what world is the 'victim' of fraud the one who made a lot of profit in the transaction?

 

[Bray123]

No, they're not. They did their own property value assessment and agreed with Trump.

So either they're guilty of agreeing with Trump's supposed 'fraudulent' asset evaluation and are also guilty of fraud, or there is no fraud here.

The banks made money off of Trump.

In what world is the 'victim' of fraud the one who made a lot of profit in the transaction?

Yup, you don't know what fraud is. Trump loves you.

 

[Fuzzy1975]

Lol, no...

Are you claiming that is not the Statute? Or are you just laughing because you drank too much carbon based water?

 

[Fuzzy1975]

No, they're not. They did their own property value assessment and agreed with Trump.

Citation please...not like I don't believe you, but show the evidence since I have not seen this.

So either they're guilty of agreeing with Trump's supposed 'fraudulent' asset evaluation and are also guilty of fraud, or there is no fraud here.

The banks made money off of Trump.

In what world is the 'victim' of fraud the one who made a lot of profit in the transaction?

Sure they made money, that was never the point of the charges. The point was, Trump fraudulently upped the value of his assets to get a lower interest rate, thus "robbing" the banks of interest profit.

 

[Fuzzy1975]

Did you read the article? Are you saying he doesn't know the law?

"Napolitano served as a New Jersey Superior Court judge from 1987 to 1995. He also served as a visiting professor at Widener University Delaware Law School, Seton Hall University School of Law, and Brooklyn Law School."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Napolitano

And the judge in the trial is qualified too, what is this, a show your dick post on who has qualification?

 

[TastySuckToy]

Citation please...not like I don't believe you, but show the evidence since I have not seen this.

The banks entered into the loan agreements. By definition, they agreed with the stated asset evaluations, which includes their own asset value assessments.

Sure they made money, that was never the point of the charges. The point was, Trump fraudulently upped the value of his assets to get a lower interest rate, thus "robbing" the banks of interest profit.

Owners can declare whatever value they want for their assets.

 

[dmallord]

Trump's latest filing tried to change the registration of the addresses of his businesses to various landscaping yards in Florida. Thus placing everything out of reach of the New York prosecutors when it comes to bailiff-day.

View attachment 2320219


This was a straightforward scam, a perversion of justice. This came about after the Judge ruled Trump was guilty of fraud. Luckily it was caught by Judge Engoron and the failing soon to be sanctioned attorneys promptly claimed it was a 'mistake'.

https://www.meidastouch.com/news/trump-tries-to-change-ny-business-addresses-to-fl-in-fraud-judgment

I just watched this on the Midastouch before coming to this thread. It describes how this took place and explains precisely what you pointed out as a blatant attempt to move those addresses in preparations for an appeal using the out-of-state excuse to get out of paying or having the case dismissed on those 'mistakes.'

Judge Engoron spotted those idiotic 'mistakes' and tore the attorney a new @sshole.

Does anyone still want a Trump for 'Lying Don' President?

 

[Fuzzy1975]

The banks entered into the loan agreements. By definition, they agreed with the stated asset evaluations, which includes their own asset value assessments.

Actually that is not how it works. As one who has bought large commercial property I can tell you how it works. You have two choices, first choice is to pay the bank to do the evaluation. Very expensive by the way since they hire a third party and tack on a percentage of the bill. Or you can hire a third party and pay them yourself. In either case you then as the borrower sign that you agree with the valuations. The bank then takes that valuation and determines the risk of default vs collection on the loan and will then set an interest rate. Yes you can negotiate this rate, or even shop it, but at the end of the day, you take ownership legally of the valuations.

Owners can declare whatever value they want for their assets.

LOL sure they can, but banks only take valuations from certified appraisers....they won't authorise a loan on the owners word alone. Don't believe me, go try it......lmfao

 

[Rightguide]

 

[TastySuckToy]

Actually that is not how it works.

That's exactly how it works. You enter an agreement, that means you're agreeing to it.

banks only take valuations from certified appraisers....they won't authorise a loan on the owners word alone. Don't believe me, go try it......lmfao

Thank you for further proving Trump isn't guilty of fraud.

 

[dmallord]

If the banks didn't know what the footage is after doing their own property value assessment, then footage wasn't a metric of value assessment, therefore claiming fraud on that basis is absolutely nonsense.

If they did know footage but went with the claimed false figure, then they are guilty of the same 'fraud' that Trump is. So why aren't the banks being found guilty and fined for fraud?

The bank was not charged for fraud - it didn't perpetuate the false narratives that Trump used to apply for the loan. Trump lied, the court found he massively lied, and it falls into that so-called victimless crime category.

The fact that Trump repaid the loan and didn't default is irrelevant - according to the judge and the AG. What is relevant, per Judge Engoron, is Trump massively over-inflated his wealth in those applications. He substantially benefited financially from perpetuating false statements - a crime - a crime of fraud with intent to gain financially based upon lies.

 

[Fuzzy1975]

That's exactly how it works. You enter an agreement, that means you're agreeing to it.

LOL, you seemed to miss the part about third party independent appraisal. But you're correct, you provide the third party appraisal and the bank will agree to write you a loan.

Thank you for further proving Trump isn't guilty of fraud.

yes we all know you're an imbecile, there really is no need to keep proving it, over and over and over.

 

[dmallord]

I call for an opinion poll of the Literotica political jury.
Thumbs up - guilty
Laughing face - not guilty

 

[dmallord]

Let's just use your analogy: if your customer agrees with that claim after doing their own assessment of the pizza, they are guilty of fraud as well, correct?

Specious analogy. Let's stick with Trump and massive overinflating of his net worth and lies about his properties to obtain a more favorable loan.

 

[TastySuckToy]

But you're correct, you provide the third party appraisal and the bank will agree to write you a loan.

banks only take valuations from certified appraisers....they won't authorise a loan on the owners word alone.

Excellent points in defense of Trump.

 

[Fuzzy1975]

Excellent points in defense of Trump.

I never offered up any defence of anyone. I was merely pointing out that while the owner can supply the valuations. The lender will not accept them unless they are third party. Totally the opposite of what you alluded to earlier below.

Owners can declare whatever value they want for their assets.

Thank you for learning, and now admitting you were wrong about where the valuations come from.

 

[TastySuckToy]

I never offered up any defence of anyone. I was merely pointing out that while the owner can supply the valuations. The lender will not accept them unless they are third party. Totally the opposite of what you alluded to earlier below.

The existence of owner valuation and third party valuation of assets are not mutually exclusive issues, and I never said or claimed otherwise.

Thank you for learning, and now admitting you were wrong about where the valuations come from.

Valuation of assets can come from anyone, owners, appraisers, etc. Do explain where I'm wrong about where valuations come from.

 

[Fuzzy1975]

The existence of owner valuation and third party valuation of assets are not mutually exclusive issues, and I never said or claimed otherwise.

Nice about face........lol

Owners can declare whatever value they want for their assets.

Valuation of assets can come from anyone, owners, appraisers, etc. Do explain where I'm wrong about where valuations come from.

Valuations for commercial loans will only be accepted if they come from an approved third party. It's really pretty simple, why, because banks are in the business of loaning money, not appraising assets. Don't believe me, try going to get one...

 

[Sean Renaud]

No, they're not. They did their own property value assessment and agreed with Trump.

So either they're guilty of agreeing with Trump's supposed 'fraudulent' asset evaluation and are also guilty of fraud, or there is no fraud here.

The banks made money off of Trump.

In what world is the 'victim' of fraud the one who made a lot of profit in the transaction?

Where did you get the idea they did their own value assessment. Especially since this isn't JUST about him lying about how large the place is. He also routinely devalued property for the purposes of taxes.

Even by your logic it wasn't the banks, it was specific bankers and good luck tracking down whom specifically was involved in the transactions.