Judge Engoron's $355 Million Fine Against Donald Trump May Have Far-Reaching Consequences

[ll74]

Explain how that has anything to do with the validity of said judge's argument.

*Former judge

 

[TastySuckToy]

*Former judge

Are you going to address the actual arguments submitted or not?

The validity of an argument is not contingent upon the status of the person making it.

 

[Bray123]

Trump's latest filing tried to change the registration of the addresses of his businesses to various landscaping yards in Florida. Thus placing everything out of reach of the New York prosecutors when it comes to bailiff-day.




This was a straightforward scam, a perversion of justice. Luckily it was caught by Judge Engoron and the failing soon to be sanctioned attorneys promptly claimed it was a 'mistake'.

https://www.meidastouch.com/news/trump-tries-to-change-ny-business-addresses-to-fl-in-fraud-judgment

 

[SgtSpiderMan]

Lol. Not even close.

SWORN TESTIMONY from several witnesses is that the banks did their own appraisal of the property.

Strange how that defeats the actual reliance part in #5.

You see it really comes down to the fact that you have no real understanding of how things work in the real world. You seem to think that if YOU believe your car is worth 10,000 and the bank believes it's only worth 7500, you're good. But if TRUMP believes his property is worth 350 million, based on the values of other properties in the neighborhood, and the bank believes it's only worth 300 million and the judge believes it's only worth 17 million, TRUMP committed fraud.

That's not hows it works. Because if that's how it actually does work then EVERY celebrity with sneakers bearing his name or brand is in trouble. And yet they aren't...


Why is that?

Who swore under oath that Trump’s place was 3x bigger than it actually was?

 

[Bray123]

Who swore under oath that Trump’s place was 3x bigger than it actually was?

In fairness, Trump is a well-known liar and proven fraudster, so anyone lending him money is either a fool or needs to disregard everything he says (which is a summary of his defense).

 

[Rightguide]

*Former judge. 30 years ago

Did you read the article? Are you saying he doesn't know the law?

"Napolitano served as a New Jersey Superior Court judge from 1987 to 1995. He also served as a visiting professor at Widener University Delaware Law School, Seton Hall University School of Law, and Brooklyn Law School."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Napolitano

 

[Rightguide]

Are you going to address the actual arguments submitted or not?

The validity of an argument is not contingent upon the status of the person making it.

He has his intellectual blinders on.

 

[icanhelp1]

Who swore under oath that Trump’s place was 3x bigger than it actually was?

Soooo fucking what!!! Government and banks do their own assessments and valuations, one for tax purposes and one for valuation, that’s the bedrock for capitalism.

 

[TastySuckToy]

He has his intellectual blinders on.

Not necessarily. I've noticed that large numbers of posters here do not engage actual arguments or rebuttals to actual points.

They name call, deflect, strawman and count on dog piling tactics to drown out any dissenting opinion they don't like.

 

[SgtSpiderMan]

Soooo fucking what!!! Government and banks do their own assessments and valuations, one for tax purposes and one for valuation, that’s the bedrock for capitalism.

Ok, you did nothing to address what I wrote.

Who from the government or from a bank signed off that Trump’s place was 3x the size it really is?

 

[TastySuckToy]

Ok, you did nothing to address what I wrote.

Who from the government or from a bank signed off that Trump’s place was 3x the size it really is?

If a bank assesses a property value at, for example, 1 million dollars, they don't care what the square footage is. Varying estimations of dynamic property size only changes the price per area measurement, not the total value of the property.

If your pizza is valued at $15 dollars, it's still valued at $15 dollars regardless how you slice it or how many pieces there are.

 

[ll74]

Did you read the article? Are you saying he doesn't know the law?

"Napolitano served as a New Jersey Superior Court judge from 1987 to 1995. He also served as a visiting professor at Widener University Delaware Law School, Seton Hall University School of Law, and Brooklyn Law School."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Napolitano

He's not a judge.

I was a contractor 30 years ago.... I'm not still a contractor.

 

[Bray123]

When someone miscalculates an apartment in New York to the tune of half an acre, it's not a mistake. It was on that basis that the valuation was made; a simple size x value = $$$. The bank didn't turn up with the janitor and a tape measure (but Trump says they should have).

 

[icanhelp1]

If a bank assesses a property value at, for example, 1 million dollars, they don't care what the square footage is. Varying estimations of dynamic property size only changes the price per area measurement, not the total value of the property.

If your pizza is valued at $15 dollars, it's still valued at $15 dollars regardless how you slice it or how many pieces there are.

The only two people that give a shit are Letitia James and Judge Engoron, and some zealous Trump haters.

 

[icanhelp1]

He's not a judge.

I was a contractor 30 years ago.... I'm not still a contractor.

No, but your knowledge base is the same.

 

[ll74]

Wonder what NY law says

 

[Bray123]

He's not a judge.

I was a contractor 30 years ago.... I'm not still a contractor.

Is a cop who retired 30yrs ago still a cop? Is an airline pilot still an airline pilot? Is a computer programmer still a computer programmer?

It's an interesting theory.

 

[ll74]

No, but your knowledge base is the same.

Ooh... Zinger!

 

[SgtSpiderMan]

If a bank assesses a property value at, for example, 1 million dollars, they don't care what the square footage is. Varying estimations of dynamic property size only changes the price per area measurement, not the total value of the property.

If your pizza is valued at $15 dollars, it's still valued at $15 dollars regardless how you slice it or how many pieces there are.

That raises the question of why did Trump intentionally lie so much if it didn’t matter?

Also that’s not how square footage or pizza work.

 

[TastySuckToy]

When someone miscalculates an apartment in New York to the tune of half an acre, it's not a mistake. It was on that basis that the valuation was made; a simple size x value = $$$. The bank didn't turn up with the janitor and a tape measure (but Trump says they should have).

The bank did their own property value assessments.

Either they agreed with the footage estimate, in which case that would make them just as guilty as Trump of 'fraud', assuming the footage claims are false.

Or footage estimates was not part of their value assessment metrics and therefore claiming it dictated their value assessment is false.

Take your pick.

 

[SgtSpiderMan]

The bank did their own property value assessments.

Either they agreed with the footage estimate, in which case that would make them just as guilty as Trump of 'fraud', assuming the footage claims are false.

Or footage estimates was not part of their value assessment metrics and therefore claiming it dictated their value assessment is false.

Take your pick.

Awesome. We both agree Trump committed fraud.

 

[TastySuckToy]

That raises the question of why did Trump intentionally lie so much if it didn’t matter?

If the footage assessment doesn't matter, throw in whatever figure you want.

Either the bank agreed with it, thus putting them in the same category of Trump for 'fraud', or it wasn't a metric by which they made their own value assessment.

Either the bank is guilty of the exact same 'fraud' as Trump, or the bank didn't use footage as a value determination metric.

Also that’s not how square footage or pizza work.

That's exactly how it works.

 

[TastySuckToy]

Awesome. We both agree Trump committed fraud.

In order for that to be the case, the bank would equally be guilty of fraud. So why isn't the bank being found guilty and fined as well?

 

[IrezumiKiss]

If Truth Social hits Wall Street in the next few weeks, which it will, its much closer to 10 billion.

First you say "if" and then you say it "will." Which is it?

It's even funnier that you think Truth Social can pull any numbers on Wall Street when it's been a washout for over a year now. A lemonade stand on the street with a gold "T" on the facade is a surer bet to generate bailout income than that shit.

 

[Sean Renaud]

If a bank assesses a property value at, for example, 1 million dollars, they don't care what the square footage is. Varying estimations of dynamic property size only changes the price per area measurement, not the total value of the property.

If your pizza is valued at $15 dollars, it's still valued at $15 dollars regardless how you slice it or how many pieces there are.

Absolute bullshit. My pizza is a small pizza worth $1 abut I claim it's an extra large with stuffed crust and thus its worth $20 I am guilty of fraud. This is not complicated.