Lands Challenge Thread

[Angeline]

Lovers' Paradelle

Homer and Cordie, thank you both. Before I started writing, I only knew that I wanted to make some statement about the moment before lovers kiss for the first time. Wanted to say something about desire being stronger than the implications of its actions. So I usually start with a theme...

Then I just bumbled through one stanza at a time.

Your suggestions about the second stanza are great. I knew it was awkward but wasn't sure how to fix it--I was really tired at that point, lol.

Here's what I tried:

Lips are fragile as birds born by gravity
drawn this close before touching

which gives me:

Lovers’ Paradelle

Falling into him she unfurls in swaths of silk
Falling into him she unfurls in swaths of silk
As twilight fades to night
As twilight fades to night
She unfurls in him as twilight fades
Falling to silk into swaths of night

Lips this close before touching are drawn
Lips this close before touching are drawn
As fragile birds born by gravity
As fragile birds born by gravity
Lips are fragile as birds born by gravity
drawn this close before touching


Their shining eyes belie the heedless hearts
Their shining eyes belie the heedless hearts
thus unknowing do they yield
thus unknowing do they yield
Their heedless eyes do shining thus
Belie the unknowing hearts they yield

Touching lips their hearts are born before
They unfurl shining silk to heedless twilight
Drawn unknowing into this black gravity
They fade they close their eyes
Thus fragile as a falling bird she yields to him
Born as swaths of gravity falling into night

 

[Zhuk]

Paradelle

Given the difficult form, Angeline's poem is quite good. But I must say this form makes no sense while writing poetry in English. I have tried looking at it from different angles (the form), there would be no sense in writing english poetry in this form. Maybe in French or any other language.

My personal view!

 

[Angeline]

Zhuk's Comment

Ty for your comment. I found the form difficult, Zhuk, and with due respect to my dear friend Cordelia (who did say it works better in other languages), I felt the quality of my product wasn't worth the effort. Specifically, I didn't think the repetitions added anything and the recasting with words already used made it hard to avoid tortured constructions.

Zhuk, could you explain specifically why these would not be issues with the form in other languages? I can get by in Spanish (and know a little French and Yiddish), but not enough of any of them to understand why some languages might lend themselves to a specific form.

Cord, other folks have ideas on this? Senna Jawa, I think, has explained this a little in regard to Asian poetics. Why do some languages or cultures work better with certain artistic forms? I find that fascinating...

 

[Zhuk]

For example

Angeline,

Lovers’ Paradelle

Falling into him she unfurls in swaths of silk
As twilight fades to night
She unfurls in him as twilight fades
Falling to silk into swaths of night

Lips this close before touching are drawn
As fragile birds born by gravity
Lips are fragile as birds born by gravity
drawn this close before touching

Their shining eyes belie the heedless hearts
thus unknowing do they yield
Their heedless eyes do shining thus
Belie the unknowing hearts they yield

I have taken the liberty to remove the repetitions from your poem. Has it taken anything away from it? If in a poem, these repetitions are necessary or 'add to' a poem, then I would see the sense in writing in this form. Or to put it another way, to write a poem in english in this form, where the repetitions 'add something' to the poem, is going to be very difficult.

I dont know much about French or Spanish. But I know a little about Urdu and Ghazals. Now Ghazals are poems that are meant to be sung, Ghazals are not songs. In such cases, where you are writing a poem that is meant to be sung, such repetitions might, just might make sense. I have heard many good Ghazal singers repeat some lines to stress them or to tell the audience "hear this line again".

Hope I made some sense.

 

[Angeline]

Ghazals

It makes perfect sense! Thank you.

 

[Zhuk]

Slogans!

An idea just came to me.

If a poem is written that includes slogans, something like "we want freedom!", or "Angeline go back!" then this form would make sense. Someone should try that.

 

[OT]

For what it's worth, I grepped around the net, and Angeline's Paradelle is easily equal to any I've seen.

The "requirements" are definitely stringent and odd.

And about the repeating lines, I like Zhuk's thoughts about "hear this line again". Another reason for repeating the lines might be to more firmly imbed the words in your brain, to make the subtle point that you are about to hear them rearranged in the last line.

Forms like this have a very limited audience. Not unlike the little alphabet thing I did. I had such fun writing within the constraints, but unless you can appreciate the constraints, the results appear less then profound.

 

[HomerPindar]

But why doesn't this sort of emphisis work in English? And, I did think there was a difference, besides cosmetic, between Angeline's peom with and without the repeating words. I also have a mental voice that I read aloud to, or in fact, I read the poem aloud. And again, why do we assume that English doesn't have this ability to convey a meaning by something other than strictly the words used?

Mind you, it's not done enough, but hardly a reason why it shouldn't be done.

Also, as a writer, I find these sort of poem/puzzles VERY usefull in helping me work with words. I've never written so much free verse poetry until after I'd written all of the various poetic forms that I first submitted here. And I acredit those forms with helping me think with words differently. So, while it's hardly going to get a large audiance, I think as a writer, this is a project I'm willing to tackle (maybe more than once, if I have the time )

Thanks again, Cordie and Ang

HomerPindar

 

[OT]

But why doesn't this sort of emphisis work in English?

Another few pennies of opinion...
In english, repetition works well when the line is short and powerful, or if it has a pleasing meter.

Some foreign languages have, for lack of a better term, a sing-song quality, giving them the advantage of a natural meter.

To produce a good poem in a form that requires repetition, requires the poet to write lines that sound good when repeated.

 

[Angeline]

Repetition and English

Wel, finally I have an explanation why "Mom? Mom? Mom? Mom??? Mom???!!!!!, Mom?, Mom!!!!" is so often less than pleasing....

 

[HomerPindar]

Excelent answer there OT, thanks...

Just start thinking song lyrics and chorus and this form is no less pleasing (to me anyways)... course, its also no easier

HomerPindar

 

[OT]

Re: Repetition and English

Wel, finally I have an explanation why "Mom? Mom? Mom? Mom??? Mom???!!!!!, Mom?, Mom!!!!" is so often less than pleasing....

Sounds like they have the short and powerful part down.
As poet-mom, you simply need to teach them to mind their meters.

 

[beths-virtue]

Re: Re: Repetition and English

Sounds like they have the short and powerful part down.
As poet-mom, you simply need to teach them to mind their meters.

groooaannnn!! ugh ,


mind your meter now children ,
speak in stanzas short and sweet,
quadrains or couplets makes no matter,
but mind your meter ,child

 

[_Land]

Re: Re: Re: Repetition and English

Pssssst~~~~~~~~~ Hows that hypersonnet coming speaking of meter


Kiss Kiss

groooaannnn!! ugh ,


mind your meter now children ,
speak in stanzas short and sweet,
quadrains or couplets makes no matter,
but mind your meter ,child

 

[Angeline]

My Challenge

It occurs to me that, having written that paradelle, I get to issue a challenge (do I not, _Land?), soooooo

I challenge _Land and Beths to each write an acrostic using the other's name. Beth, yours is easier and forget the underscore (haha, I can't imagine what you would say with it); _Land on the other hand has (hehe) a bit more work.

Here is one I did, to give an example:

Acrostic 1

Maybe it’s the way your mouth curves when you smile
I love your strong features your dear gentle face is
Childlike in innocent sincerity its openness bespeaking
Happiness and no great scars to compare with my own
And maybe it’s your honesty I prize the simple and direct
Elegance of your words and no subterfuge but simply my
Lover and I have fallen deep in your strong warm arms

Murmured your name breathing your mouth caught on
Your gaze the sky of you bright stronger than rain that

Left me finally I see that there are places in this vast
Orb of soul we inhabit that are safe it is possible that
Valley in the hollow of your throat is the safest place
Ever for my lips to rest and breathe your sweetest skin.

 

[Zhuk]

One question, no two

1. Who said this challenge thing was getting out of hand?
2. What is an acrostic?

It occurs to me that, having written that paradelle, I get to issue a challenge (do I not, _Land?), soooooo

I challenge _Land and Beths to each write an acrostic using the other's name. Beth, yours is easier and forget the underscore (haha, I can't imagine what you would say with it); _Land on the other hand has (hehe) a bit more work.

Here is one I did, to give an example:

Acrostic 1

Maybe it’s the way your mouth curves when you smile
I love your strong features your dear gentle face is
Childlike in innocent sincerity its openness bespeaking
Happiness and no great scars to compare with my own
And maybe it’s your honesty I prize the simple and direct
Elegance of your words and no subterfuge but simply my
Lover and I have fallen deep in your strong warm arms

Murmured your name breathing your mouth caught on
Your gaze the sky of you bright stronger than rain that

Left me finally I see that there are places in this vast
Orb of soul we inhabit that are safe it is possible that
Valley in the hollow of your throat is the safest place
Ever for my lips to rest and breathe your sweetest skin.

 

[_Land]

I love the challenge Angeline, and will answer it gladly, but as I am still answereing Judos challenge and My dearest beth is also in dire need of finishing her hyper sonnet, i would suggest challenging an unchallenged poet while we finish our other challenges up..... we will get to this, only after I change to my full name that would be 4 letters for the first name 6 for the middle name, and 10 for the last name. LMAO
hehehehe
great challenge
Angeline

 

[Angeline]

Challenges and Such

Zhuk, an acrostic is a poem in which the first letter of each line spells something so that the first letters of all the lines together spell something when read vertically. For example....

Zillions of miles from me I

Have a poet friend who

Understands the discipline in

Knowledge feeding art.

You see your name--Zhuk--spelled out by reading down from Z? That's an acrostic. Try one; they are fun! And yes, lol, I said this challenge thing was getting out of hand.

And _Land? Take your time. I can wait.

 

[_Land]

Re: Challenges and Such

I dont think it has gotten out of hand yet........LOL
We are still having fun, and writing poetry
which as I recall was the point of this very thread.

Always Inspiring Others
Never discouraging
Giving strength and help
Entertaining with rowdy Ted
Loving, even the unlovable
Inteligent, not just brainy
Naturally brilliant writer
Emitting Beautiful Images

Zhuk, an acrostic is a poem in which the first letter of each line spells something so that the first letters of all the lines together spell something when read vertically. For example....

Zillions of miles from me I

Have a poet friend who

Understands the discipline in

Knowledge feeding art.

You see your name--Zhuk--spelled out by reading down from Z? That's an acrostic. Try one; they are fun! And yes, lol, I said this challenge thing was getting out of hand.

And _Land? Take your time. I can wait.

 

[beths-virtue]

all i can say is somehow, it strikes me angeline, you managed to sneak a double challenge in there, and no one else has fussed about it ....
and darn you _Land, leave it to you to ressurect the specre of the darn hyper sonnet... which of course you challenged me to do , specificly cause you knew i havent written any poetry in so long ....

alas..... the sonnet will have to wait..



but angeline , i can answer your challenge immediately


_ the space of silence between your heart beats
Laying my head on your chest, the mad beating of your heart
Anylizing the whorls of chest hair
Negotiating my way to your lips
Deep breath in , I sink into the space between the rhythm

_ this is the tear you refuse to shed
Lays dormant in your eye
And it shines there waiting,like the seconds between the cut and the blood
Nightly i see it well up , repeated like a ritual
Deepening the pain, wounds added, will you smile without the tear ever again

 

[_Land]

To shed a tear admits my pain
of which you have have not caused
my unshed, an ode to my inner child
and my children too, whom I miss



Thank you my love, I hope I can dou your name justice as you have so effectivly done with my mine.

all i can say is somehow, it strikes me angeline, you managed to sneak a double challenge in there, and no one else has fussed about it ....
and darn you _Land, leave it to you to ressurect the specre of the darn hyper sonnet... which of course you challenged me to do , specificly cause you knew i havent written any poetry in so long ....

alas..... the sonnet will have to wait..



but angeline , i can answer your challenge immediately


_ the space of silence between your heart beats
Laying my head on your chest, the mad beating of your heart
Anylizing the whorls of chest hair
Negotiating my way to your lips
Deep breath in , I sink into the space between the rhythm

_ this is the tear you refuse to shed
Lays dormant in your eye
And it shines there waiting,like the seconds between the cut and the blood
Nightly i see it well up , repeated like a ritual
Deepening the pain, wounds added, will you smile without the tear ever again

 

[Angeline]

Beth Takes the Challenge

_ the space of silence between your heart beats
Laying my head on your chest, the mad beating of your heart
Anylizing the whorls of chest hair
Negotiating my way to your lips
Deep breath in , I sink into the space between the rhythm

_ this is the tear you refuse to shed
Lays dormant in your eye
And it shines there waiting,like the seconds between the cut and the blood
Nightly i see it well up , repeated like a ritual
Deepening the pain, wounds added, will you smile without the tear ever again

Beth, that is just beautiful! _Land you are a lucky guy to have her in your life, but I imagine you know that.

 

[HomerPindar]

all i can say is somehow, it strikes me angeline, you managed to sneak a double challenge in there, and no one else has fussed about it ....
and darn you _Land, leave it to you to ressurect the specre of the darn hyper sonnet... which of course you challenged me to do , specificly cause you knew i havent written any poetry in so long ....

alas..... the sonnet will have to wait..

but angeline , i can answer your challenge immediately

_ the space of silence between your heart beats
Laying my head on your chest, the mad beating of your heart
Anylizing the whorls of chest hair
Negotiating my way to your lips
Deep breath in , I sink into the space between the rhythm

_ this is the tear you refuse to shed
Lays dormant in your eye
And it shines there waiting,like the seconds between the cut and the blood
Nightly i see it well up , repeated like a ritual
Deepening the pain, wounds added, will you smile without the tear ever again

With the underscore intact no less!! well done beth!

If I maybe so bold as to ask, whats a "hyper"sonnet that it's different than a sonnet?

for a poetry class I did once write a fourteen word sonnet, in shakespeare rhyme scheme...wonder if I could manage a repeat? But, before I try that, I'd suggest (though not challenge, you have enough of those already ) combining forms, acrostic-sonnet's.

HomerPindar

 

[Lauren Hynde]

Homer--

A hypersonnet, or more exactly a Hynde Hypersonnet, is the more exquisite of classic forms, and was originated in the far past of July 19th, 2002, circa 2AM. I invented it, prompt by Judo, Redwave and the Wicked. There are, to the best of my knowledge, two Hynde Hypersonnets in existence, at this point, but it's a booming form and I know its number is about to increase by 50% very soon. They are, for reference purposes: Romeo Is Bleeding: a hypersonnet by The Poets, and Naked In Bed, aka Raw and Primitive, by WickedEve.

The hypersonnet definition, as it was first established:
It is a freakish mutant fusion of the classic and english sonnets, and this 20 iambic pentameters estravaganza, respects a very tight rhyming scheme: ABBA CDDC CDE CDE ABBA EE. As you can see, each of the five rhyming sounds appears four and only four times.

 

[beths-virtue]

Homer--

A hypersonnet, or more exactly a Hynde Hypersonnet, is the more exquisite of classic forms, and was originated in the far past of July 19th, 2002, circa 2AM. I invented it, prompt by Judo, Redwave and the Wicked. There are, to the best of my knowledge, two Hynde Hypersonnets in existence, at this point, but it's a booming form and I know its number is about to increase by 50% very soon. They are, for reference purposes: Romeo Is Bleeding: a hypersonnet by The Poets, and Naked In Bed, aka Raw and Primitive, by WickedEve.

The hypersonnet definition, as it was first established:
It is a freakish mutant fusion of the classic and english sonnets, and this 20 iambic pentameters estravaganza, respects a very tight rhyming scheme: ABBA CDDC CDE CDE ABBA EE. As you can see, each of the five rhyming sounds appears four and only four times.

yeah, and on this challenge thread resurrected to create nothing but tears for me ....
i think i am going to work on the challenger, and see if he could be ... ummmm.... encouraged.... to relax a bit on the structure...
so far i only have 4 lines, none of which are in pentameter and only rhyme...

arrrgggghhhh


BTW , thanks everyone on the compliments on my acrostics

it might help that i have done tons of these, my next work of poetry will not be debuted until tommorrow,

but , then i certainly wouldnt be the kind of person to let a little secret like the fact that

************tommorrow is land's BIRTHDAY!!!*****************