Leave your homophobia at the door, thank you...

[Stella_Omega]

Missed this!

I think we risk obfuscating reality if we don't clear identify male on male fellatio as queer sex no matter the mental state of the guys involved.

queer sex? Or kinky? . "kinky" covers straight practices as well as gay practices. Sucking a dick that happens to be attached to a person you have no desire for because of their sex? Yep. that's kinky, all right. It could be queer-- but so close to straight as makes hardly any difference to any gay man.

 

[blade_rocknut]

Dang, this is confusing.....

A lot of reallllly healthy points being brought up, though. As applicable to me; I have some "not straight fantasiesand fetishes". I have never had a homosexual experience, however, and don't really desire it. Do I worry too much about it? No....but I can't exactly talk about what turns me on with my drinking buddies! Why? Because everyone's position on what constitutes this, that, or the other varies. Here's my stance. Myself and a whole crowd of other folks will never be accepted by (most) straights, because we're not "normal" to them. I understand, I was once that way myself. I'm not asking for respect, or props, or anything else from any portion of (I'll just say the non-het) community; but would like permission to be a decent neighbor. One who doesn't beat off while peeking in your windows at night. People are all people; among any group are bad apples. Basic civil tolerance stuff.

I don't claim to have any idea how tough it is ( from any angle) to be gay in this world....I only know how it is to be me. My closest sibling is lesbian; I've known since I was 10 or so. She has no idea about any of my quirks, however. Not that I don't think SHE can handle me being "odd", I have more respect for her judgement than anyone in my family. I don't want her to bear the burden of my secrets, because I am somewhere in the middle...of a lot of things.

Anywho, I think the thread was about making sure that homophobia was left out of the fetish forums. It needs to be as such, because a bunch of fetishes transcend this whole "defining sexuality" debate. An enema fetish doesn't care what kinda person it lives in. Nor does one about stillettos and stockings. People of all sorts will bump elbows here, because kinky knows no bounds.

 

[lustatopia]

Noun 1. fetish - a form of sexual desire in which gratification depends to an abnormal degree on some object or item of clothing or part of the body; "common male fetishes are breasts, legs, hair, shoes, and underwear".

Now this is STRICTLY my opinion (so as to keep from getting jumped here), but as stated above, it is a fetish if you are attracted to a cock/pussy and not the person they are attached to.

In other words, liking to eat cum; liking cock, but not men; liking gay men in blue shoes (because of the shoes) are fetishes and belong here, REGARDLESS of the sexual orientation of the poster.

On the other hand, if a guy is curious about sucking cock because he is attracted to men, then THAT is LGBTQ forum appropriate (regardless if he is bi, gay or just freakin curious).

So I guess what I'm TRYING to express is that some guy talking about sucking cock ain't necessary gay (unless of course it IS! )

I totally agree with you, Safe_Bet. You explained that really well.

I would only add two qualifications -- it's all really a matter of degree. For instance a thread which is primarily focused upon a fetish belongs here, not a thread where a fetish merely makes an appearance in the course of the main topic.

Secondly, we have to be sensitive to people who are exploring their sexuality who may give the appearance of having a cock or cum fetish but really just don't have the cognitive framework built yet to make the jump to holistically embracing their homosexual passions.

Fetishes are not natural or particularly healthy in the psychological sense, although for most people they are harmless and fun. A fetish is always the result of conscious awareness being repressed by societal pressures then re-emerging into some kind of deformed twist. You know, like squeezing a balloon and it bulges out somewhere else. In theory, in a truly sexual liberated society there would be few fetishes. This is born out by the fact that the intensity of sexual fetishistic practices has been in decline since the highly oppressive Victorian era.

For instance, the fetish for watching white women fuck and suck well-hung black studs only exists because the pressures of racism in our society makes that scenario seem so utterly transgressive to a certain section of our population.

But real human beings struggling to bring their same-sex desires into conscious focus need to be handled gently and with understanding in order that their immature fantasies are NOT channelled toward fetishism, thus arresting their personal development.

I understand that bisexuality in young women usually first physically manifests itself in kissing and cuddling proceeding gradually to full on lesbian love making. But it doesn't usually work that way for men who aren't already fully aware of their homosexual from the get go. Often bisexuality in men manifests itself in all sorts of cock, cum, wife-sharing, DP fantasies, etc. I certainly sucked a few dicks before I actually ever tongued kissed a guy with holistic passion for the whole male form.

My point is that, sure, all sorts of cock and cum fetishes do exist, but we should try to be empathetic to inexperienced newbies who come here with erotic fantasies that don't encompass holistic human love by mistaking them for full blown fetishes devoid of the possibility of further growth and exploration.

To tell someone just exploring their same-sex desires for the first time that they are just straight people with petty fetishes could thwart their sexual development towards true self actualization. It's also a blow to someone's self-esteem at a transitory stage in life.

 

[lustatopia]

Dang, this is confusing.....

A lot of reallllly healthy points being brought up, though. As applicable to me; I have some "not straight fantasiesand fetishes". I have never had a homosexual experience, however, and don't really desire it. Do I worry too much about it? No....but I can't exactly talk about what turns me on with my drinking buddies! Why? Because everyone's position on what constitutes this, that, or the other varies. Here's my stance. Myself and a whole crowd of other folks will never be accepted by (most) straights, because we're not "normal" to them. I understand, I was once that way myself. I'm not asking for respect, or props, or anything else from any portion of (I'll just say the non-het) community; but would like permission to be a decent neighbor. One who doesn't beat off while peeking in your windows at night. People are all people; among any group are bad apples. Basic civil tolerance stuff.

I don't claim to have any idea how tough it is ( from any angle) to be gay in this world....I only know how it is to be me. My closest sibling is lesbian; I've known since I was 10 or so. She has no idea about any of my quirks, however. Not that I don't think SHE can handle me being "odd", I have more respect for her judgement than anyone in my family. I don't want her to bear the burden of my secrets, because I am somewhere in the middle...of a lot of things.

Anywho, I think the thread was about making sure that homophobia was left out of the fetish forums. It needs to be as such, because a bunch of fetishes transcend this whole "defining sexuality" debate. An enema fetish doesn't care what kinda person it lives in. Nor does one about stillettos and stockings. People of all sorts will bump elbows here, because kinky knows no bounds.

Damn, Blade, you do make the whole attempt to create a sliding scale of human sexuality from gay to straight difficult. It's almost like we need another couple of axes to find a spot for you. I suppose that's the problem with trying to build models of nature, there are always paradoxical phenomena that can't be explained within the frame work of the model.

 

[Stella_Omega]

We have to find a balance between other people's needs and our own, lustatopia. And so, we asked that a new forum be created.

I don't see it as my duty to second-guess someone who tells us that he wants to suck a cock but he really doesn't like men sexually. Either we are adults here or I get paid to be a nanny.

Damn, Blade, you do make the whole attempt to create a sliding scale of human sexuality from gay to straight difficult. It's almost like we need another couple of axes to find a spot for you. I suppose that's the problem with trying to build models of nature, there are always paradoxical phenomena that can't be explained within the frame work of the model.

The human need to build models, yeah... And then we try to shoehorn everything into the model.

 

[Safe_Bet]

@ Lustaphobia: (Sorry still on vaca and my iPhone won't let me comment on long quotes)

I don't think I (or anyone else for that matter) has any right to try to tell some guy who likes cock, but doesn't believe himself to be gay or bi that he is. That is his decision, not ours. If he is more comfortable in his own skin that way then that makes it reality, IMO.

I think the biggest difference between your and my beliefs is that based upon your comments you think that fetishes are inherently deviant and "dirty". I don't.

Here's an example: I get off on tentacles. The idea of a rubbery suction cup covered thing sliding all over and into my body is a real turn on. That is kinky, granted, but there is nothing "dirty" or shameful about it in my mind.

I also don't consider a tentacle to be phallic. It is not a substitute for a freakin penis that I subconsciously want inside of me. It is not my "doorway drug" into bi or hetero sexuality. It is simply something I enjoy.

Same thing applies to dudes like Blade, IMO. He says he's not gay or bi, but just likes cocks. I'm totally cool with that but it IS a fetish not a precurser for bi/gay sexuality, BECAUSE HE SAYS SO. What you or I believe doesn't count.

That is why homophobia can not be allowed here by ANYONE... because all homophobia is, in it's simplest form is telling some who or who not they can be.

 

[blade_rocknut]

@ Lustaphobia: (Sorry still on vaca and my iPhone won't let me comment on long quotes)

I don't think I (or anyone else for that matter) has any right to try to tell some guy who likes cock, but doesn't believe himself to be gay or bi that he is. That is his decision, not ours. If he is more comfortable in his own skin that way then that makes it reality, IMO.

I think the biggest difference between your and my beliefs is that based upon your comments you think that fetishes are inherently deviant and "dirty". I don't.

Here's an example: I get off on tentacles. The idea of a rubbery suction cup covered thing sliding all over and into my body is a real turn on. That is kinky, granted, but there is nothing "dirty" or shameful about it in my mind.

I also don't consider a tentacle to be phallic. It is not a substitute for a freakin penis that I subconsciously want inside of me. It is not my "doorway drug" into bi or hetero sexuality. It is simply something I enjoy.

Same thing applies to dudes like Blade, IMO. He says he's not gay or bi, but just likes cocks. I'm totally cool with that but it IS a fetish not a precurser for bi/gay sexuality, BECAUSE HE SAYS SO. What you or I believe doesn't count.

That is why homophobia can not be allowed here by ANYONE... because all homophobia is, in it's simplest form is telling some who or who not they can be.

I didn't go into exactly what my fetishes or kinks are, per se....( and I'm not really a cock worshipper), but that's o.k. The point is valid. So is Lustatopia's point ( obviously not in every case) about people dabbling with sexuality and needing the freedom to do so. Am I really bi? Dunno....Out of respect for those around me, I'm not going to explore that. ( Strictly my choice; no one's stopping me) If I had no wife, kids? Maybe I would explore, not because bI'm unhappy with hetero sex, rather out of basic curiousity. I wouldn't necessarily look at anything as a gateway drug, but certainly most people do like to eeeeeeease into new territory ( no pun intended) rather than jump in headfirst ( again; no pun). That's why people who are new to something (anything) like to gain knowledge from those who aren't.

 

[none2_none2]

Wow, three pages on arguing stuff like this.

Personally, while I understand Stella's reference to one drop gay, the fact is that such is the way society seems to be -- at least I should say from my American perspective. I didn't mind some of these topics being in the GLBT, but I did think they should have been in a sub-forum so that you aren't scrolling pages and pages to find some other topic. I felt it was rather brave for some of those guys to discuss their cock desires and further to do so in a GLBT board. I do think that those str8-men-no-attraction-for-men-but-crave-cock are being disingenuous. No, I don't think they are closet homosexuals just waiting to dump their girlfriends/wives for a man, but also I find it hard to believe that one can completely divorce a cock from its owner. I will say that one of the posters gave me an extra insight that I had not thought about. Richard_daily I believe mentioned that in high school days that straight boys would think of girls in terms of pussy and titties instead of human beings. I had forgotten that, but he is right. Thus some of these str8-cock-men kind of have that immaturity. I have known some bisexual men with that mentality. For some of them when they got older, they finally got to where they appreciated men too. Again, not to drop women and go gay, but to see sex with men as more than just body parts.

I am shocked that some guys said they are glad those topics were here because they would never go to the GLBT board. I really don't get that. Except that my partner is a guy and I have to keep that to myself in the broader society since I'm not trying to bring attention to myself, I'm just a guy. Neither do I go uber-butch with leather, motorcycles, cowboy garb, levis, etc. nor do I wear dresses, sing show tunes, paint my nails, or have any desire to engage in urban gay campy stereotypes. I don't even have a rainbow air freshener in my vehicles. I admit that I don't enjoy spectator sports, but believe it or not some gay guys do, and there are actually some straight guys who do not. So why a guy with an interest in cock would not feel welcome to discuss that in a GLBT board I'm not sure why. I'm not looking to have sex or even simulate sex with anybody on the board since I'm in a monogamous relationship. I don't have AIDS nor rabies, so even if I was looking to cheat on my partner, I don't have any diseases or even cooties to pass on. I admit that once in a blue moon I may challenge an attitude about loving cock, but not the individual at all. Again, that isn't to recruit someone into a gay marriage, but that such an attitude seems so shallow. Imagine if a gay guy said he love pussy, but that he wished he could find a woman in a burka because other than pussy he disliked a women's body. Or imagine if such a guy's wife/girlfriend confessed to him that she loved his cock, but otherwise thought he was unattractive and uninteresting.

Anyway, regardless of how you slice and dice humanity, for now there is a GLBT section and this fetish section. I hope that the guys who used to be in GLBT do not feel that they were kicked out because they were not liked as human beings. Likewise, I hope that if GLBT people make comments in this fetish section, that it won't be construed as being a gay take over or as ruining a fetish forum. Etoile is a great moderator, so I'm sure she will do the same for this section.
I'm guessing that getting along was the original intent of this entire thread. Life is too short to do otherwise.

 

[JMohegan]

How many more times do I need to tell you that this isn't about labeling people, it's about running a website. My beef with the whole issue is about placing threads in the correct sub forums.

I understand that's your beef.

What I don't understand (and have asked you about repeatedly) is why you assume that this "Fetish & Sexuality Central" subforum is (or should be) the fetish & sexuality forum for STRAIGHT folks only.

That's not what it says. Not in the title, and not in the opening post. So your push to move threads makes no sense.

 

[Rolando2]

I don't care what the people think, I LIKE TO SUCK DICK!

 

[Stella_Omega]

I don't care what the people think, I LIKE TO SUCK DICK!

haha awesome!

 

[cummmthirsty]

Label

I personally dont care what people want to call me . I luv to have a huge cock in my throat & boi-pussy, & I cant seem to get enough cummmm to swallow. I still luv pussy. I dont want to kiss a man ,But i do luv his cock & cummmm. So call me a cummm guzzlin faggot i dont care

 

[Stella_Omega]

I don't think you're a faggot. Cummmm guzzling, yep

 

[lustatopia]

We have to find a balance between other people's needs and our own, lustatopia. And so, we asked that a new forum be created.

I don't see it as my duty to second-guess someone who tells us that he wants to suck a cock but he really doesn't like men sexually. Either we are adults here or I get paid to be a nanny.

The human need to build models, yeah... And then we try to shoehorn everything into the model.

I'm fine with individuals defining their sexuality however they see fit. I understand that a male is completely capable of enjoying oral sex with other men, yet have a heterosexual personal identity. Nevertheless, the act of male on male fellatio is the very definition of a homosexual sex act. So. if an individual is in denial of this fact, then we have a cognitive dissonance. How this effects an individual's holistic personality is the question. For instance can a male "who loves to suck cock but is straight" announce to his friends and family his sexual preference and yet retain his straight identity? Or do men that love to suck cock but are straight rely on a strategy of social deception to maintain their straight identity? On other threads, Safe_bet (and I believe Stella too) have condemn closet bisexual men as immoral "scumbags" for cheating on their sexual partners.

As a researcher of alternative sexuality who writes extensively on the topic I am interested in how to use language logically to investigate and yes, even define, sexual experience. As for the human need to build models, this is exactly what Literotica has done with the way the discussion forums are organized. Literotica is nothing less than a model designed to accommodate every (legal) variety of human sexuality. Because it more or less organically grew from the passion of the users and the needs of the moderators to apply some order to the chaos it is worthy of study as an example of a functional model of sexual categorization.

So I find it interesting to see how difficult it is for active members of the Alt sex community to reach definitive agreements about what words like gay, bisexual, heterosexual, fetish, lesbian and queer really mean. It really is a very complex and fluid environment.

 

[lustatopia]

I don't think I (or anyone else for that matter) has any right to try to tell some guy who likes cock, but doesn't believe himself to be gay or bi that he is. That is his decision, not ours. If he is more comfortable in his own skin that way then that makes it reality, IMO.

His psychologist might beg to differ on that point.

You said on March 12:

"I think MANY Bis are too cowardly to admit that they are queer, so they lie to both themselves and others by saying they are Bi."

And you said...

"...say shit like "I like sucking cock, but I don't like having sex with men". It is cowardly bullshit and reduces the bisexual orientation, in their cases, to a fetish, IMO."

And you said,

"REAL homo / bi sexuality is NOT something you just turn on and off at a whim. Anything else is simply using another human being as your cum receptacle."

http://forum.literotica.com/showthread.php?t=753174

How do you reconcile these contradictory positions, Safe_bet?

 

[Stella_Omega]

His psychologist might beg to differ on that point.

You said on March 12:



And you said...



And you said,



http://forum.literotica.com/showthread.php?t=753174

How do you reconcile these contradictory positions, Safe_bet?

ROFLMAO! How do you think?

She just does. Every human being is the living embodiment of contradictions. To deny that is to deny humanity.

Get the fuck over yourself. You're starting to remind me of Ken Starr-- without the tax payers footing the bill for your inquisitory randomness.

On other threads, Safe_bet (and I believe Stella too) have condemn closet bisexual men as immoral "scumbags" for cheating on their sexual partners.

Better back those assertions up with a link, bubba. Especially when you make them about me.

I think you've stopped reading with any sort of clarity. I think you're skimming posts of certain people you've decided are eeevulll, only long enough to start composing your next posted rant against them.

Get over yourself. Go post something positive to a bicurious man. Go encourage someone to explore-- and remind them that rubbers save lives.


Oh, and this?

As a researcher of alternative sexuality who writes extensively on the topic I am interested in how to use language logically to investigate and yes, even define, sexual experience. As for the human need to build models, this is exactly what Literotica has done with the way the discussion forums are organized. Literotica is nothing less than a model designed to accommodate every (legal) variety of human sexuality. Because it more or less organically grew from the passion of the users and the needs of the moderators to apply some order to the chaos it is worthy of study as an example of a functional model of sexual categorization.

is bullshit. The passion of the users is and the needs of the moderators? Nope, sorry. It's the expression of the site owner's preformed notions about sexual nature, modified once in a very rare while by some big and popular demand that doesn't cost Laurel too much in time or energy to accede to.

She ignores far more than she takes action on.

 

[lustatopia]

is bullshit. The passion of the users is and the needs of the moderators? Nope, sorry. It's the expression of the site owner's preformed notions about sexual nature, modified once in a very rare while by some big and popular demand that doesn't cost Laurel too much in time or energy to accede to.

She ignores far more than she takes action on

.

Oh, I see. Could you please explain the process to me by which the fetish central forum came to exist? I was under the impression that Literotica members and moderators had some significant input into its creation?

What other issues has Laurel ignored?

 

[Safe_Bet]

His psychologist might beg to differ on that point.



How do you reconcile these contradictory positions, Safe_bet?

First of all, I'm NOT his psychologist and neither are you. Secondly, if either of us were, he should get a new one because I'm too biased and you are an egotistical, insecure asshole.


As far as how I would reconcile those differing statements: I'd tell people to read the different threads you dug them out of, which covered SEVERAL different subjects then the one here, and expect them to take them in CONTEXT and acknowledge that they are unrelated.

P.S. On subject - dude, I've come to believe that YOU are a misognistic homophobe. The only people you have attacked just all happen to be strong, intelligent lesbians. If someone were to waste the time to read through all of your blather and bullshit it would become pretty clear = you are a hater looking for a female, preferably lesbian target.

Don't get you feelings hurt when the targets shoot back.

 

[lustatopia]

You didn't address the question.

You simply hurled more insults, which by now you might realize are a less than effective debate tactic....Hey, maybe you could try defeating my arguments with a rational explanation of your obviously passionately heartfelt position? That would be the one strategy you have failed to try on yet and it might win over some of the many people reading this thread.

Let's try to logically analyze what you said one more time....

Safe_bet said on March 12:

Quote:
"I think MANY Bis are too cowardly to admit that they are queer, so they lie to both themselves and others by saying they are Bi."


And Safe_bet said...

Quote:
"...say(ing) shit like "I like sucking cock, but I don't like having sex with men". It is cowardly bullshit and reduces the bisexual orientation, in their cases, to a fetish, IMO."

And Safe_bet said,

Quote:
"REAL homo / bi sexuality is NOT something you just turn on and off at a whim. Anything else is simply using another human being as your cum receptacle."

http://forum.literotica.com/showthread.php?t=753174

But now Safe_bet says:

"I don't think I (or anyone else for that matter) has any right to try to tell some guy who likes cock, but doesn't believe himself to be gay or bi that he is. That is his decision, not ours."

Could you explain what these statements really mean, Safe_bet? Or if you believe they are taken out of context (although the link is provided) please explain what you really meant to say.

 

[Stella_Omega]

.

Oh, I see. Could you please explain the process to me by which the fetish central forum came to exist? I was under the impression that Literotica members and moderators had some significant input into its creation?

What other issues has Laurel ignored?

That was the endpoint of three years of complaints and suggestions and requests. The tip of the iceberg. You showed up at the moment of success; you have no idea how many times that same request has been ignored in the past.

if you stick around long enough you'll find out for yourself how much Laurel can ignore.

 

[korizon]

P.S. On subject - dude, I've come to believe that YOU are a misognistic homophobe.

When you disagree with someone, just call them a homo-phobe, right? Let me guess, he/she is also a racist?

I certainly wouldn't put it past you, or others in this thread, as I was already called (or at the minimum, compared to) a racist by JMohegan.

On Lit, certain people will do just about anything to avoid calling male on male sexual acts bisexual. We're not even talking about referring to them as homosexual acts - only bisexual.

"I crave cock in my ass and mouth all day every day, but I am in no way shape or form attracted to men".

A penis is the sexual organ of a male. If you "crave cock" to the point that you are joining an internet forum to discuss how badly you crave cock, you are bi-curious. That's the very quintessential definition of a bi-curious male - someone who is potentially attracted to men (even if it's just on a sexual level), but hasn't gone through with anything yet. If this person then acts on this fantasy, enjoys it, and continues to indulge in that behavior, then that person is attracted to men - even if it's just on a sexual level. If you are NOT attracted to men, you wouldn't get off performing oral sex on a man, or having sex with a man.

To deny this would undermine the credibility of not only the posters on this forum, but the forum itself. While it's great to embrace homogeneity, that doesn't mean we should resort to ridiculousness and snide remarks, all while undermining a forum that ostensibly strives for honestly and openness.

 

[Stella_Omega]

the keyword was; Misogynistic homophobe.

As in, Lustatopia chooses to continue to attack two or three women instead of going out there and doing something useful.

Gay men aren't the only "homosexuals" listed in the DSM. Lesbians are considered "homosexual" as well. The suffix "homo-" in this case, refers to "the same" as in "homogenised milk."

(The term "homophobe" is a bit of a bastardisation, but it serves its purpose.)


And a fetish is a fetish. Men who love women's feet but can't remember their faces-- have a fetish, and it's kinda insulting to women. It's a straight-oriented fetish, but it wouldn't be welcome in a forum about heterosexuality. It's about the feet.

And it would become a problem for that forum if heteros were fighting for a space and these feetlovers came in by the droves, driving the legitimate heterosexual explorations off the first three pages most of the time.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Bumpolia