Master!

[Peter2002]

Gorean info

The "Master" concept is central to Gorean practice. It's not my concept, but I was once involved with a woman who was very into it. Clearly my inability to get with the program put a limit on our relationship. But it was interesting. It's stylized -- and very real -- artful in the way that Kabuki or Noh are. For those not familiar with it I provide the following link. I'm not sure it's the best, but it works.

http://www.cuffs.com/kinkylinks/Gorean_Style_BDSM/ http://www.cuffs.com/kinkylinks/Gorean_Style_BDSM/

Hope I didn't screw this up. I'm a techno klutz.

 

[Peter2002]

Additional thought on Gorean practice

No sooner did I post this link than I a received a private message taking me to task for saying saying something like "this may not be the best but it works". Point of clarification: I was refering to my web suggestion, not the lifestyle. I would have thought that my reference to Kabiki et al suggested a degree of cultural respect.

 

[Peter2002]

That's Kabuki

I'm also a sloppy typist.

 

[MasterNico]

Thanks for the welcome!

Gee, what do I mean by earn. Well, those I know that have earned the title have put in many years of service. They have shown their community the skills required to hold the title Master (or Grand Master, of which I personally only know one). These things are "old leather" and I have to admit, I don't exactly know about all of it. I've been lucky enough to be mentee to the one Grand Master I know for a time, and the wealth of knowledge he passed on to me is immesurable. I did ask questions many times, and got answers some of the time.

The giving of a "Daddy Cap" also comes from old leather. The tradition has been conveyed to me like this: The cap must come from an Elder in your group and must be given to you. You cannot go and buy your own daddy cap and be daddy. I have only been to one "capping" and the man who received it had come up thru the ranks of an old leather family, first as a bottom for many years and then as a Top. Only after he had been a top for a few years and had shown great proficiency, was he given his Daddy Cap. As it was explained to me, this too was part of the process.

Gorean is a completely different modality all together. It is based, or loosely based, on a series of books by John Norman. Very poorly written books I may add. However, the stories are very noble and fun, and there is GREAT DETAIL, too much in fact (hence the poorly written part), about the style of dress, the manners and actions of Masters and slaves, rituals and ceremonies and so on. It is a world where most all females are slaves (kajira) and some of the men. The Masters are generally hard and unwavering. There is so much more to Gorean, but I don't want to keep yammering away.

 

[catalina_francisco]

Re: Additional thought on Gorean practice

No sooner did I post this link than I a received a private message taking me to task for saying saying something like "this may not be the best but it works". Point of clarification: I was refering to my web suggestion, not the lifestyle. I would have thought that my reference to Kabiki et al suggested a degree of cultural respect.

Sorry to hear you had such a PM. Hope from now on you feel welcomed in the nicest ways. Most of us here don't bite....unless for fun. LOL

C

 

[Etoile]

Thanks for the welcome!

Gee, what do I mean by earn. Well, those I know that have earned the title have put in many years of service. They have shown their community the skills required to hold the title Master (or Grand Master, of which I personally only know one). These things are "old leather" and I have to admit, I don't exactly know about all of it. I've been lucky enough to be mentee to the one Grand Master I know for a time, and the wealth of knowledge he passed on to me is immesurable. I did ask questions many times, and got answers some of the time.

The giving of a "Daddy Cap" also comes from old leather. The tradition has been conveyed to me like this: The cap must come from an Elder in your group and must be given to you. You cannot go and buy your own daddy cap and be daddy. I have only been to one "capping" and the man who received it had come up thru the ranks of an old leather family, first as a bottom for many years and then as a Top. Only after he had been a top for a few years and had shown great proficiency, was he given his Daddy Cap. As it was explained to me, this too was part of the process.

Gorean is a completely different modality all together. It is based, or loosely based, on a series of books by John Norman. Very poorly written books I may add. However, the stories are very noble and fun, and there is GREAT DETAIL, too much in fact (hence the poorly written part), about the style of dress, the manners and actions of Masters and slaves, rituals and ceremonies and so on. It is a world where most all females are slaves (kajira) and some of the men. The Masters are generally hard and unwavering. There is so much more to Gorean, but I don't want to keep yammering away.

Hmm. Interesting. I guess I'm just from a younger generation, because all of that seems to be standing on way too much formality. The very idea of a leather family, rising through the ranks (I definitely don't think of bottom or top as "ranks"), etc. is alien to me and sounds absurd. I don't mean to belittle those who adhere to such practices, I'm just acknowledging that it's far away from my experience.

As for Gor, it seems that might be one of the only book series whose fans actually play out the stories in real life. Even the most diehard Tolkien fans know, at the end of the day, they're not elves. I don't really "get" Gor either, and yet I'm less likely to have respect for someone who practices it than for someone who's from one of the abovementioned leather families. I guess it seems too close to L. Ron Hubbard's Dianetics for my taste.

 

[Peter2002]

Ouch!

As an older guy dom who wants to be respectful of ancient more ritualized lifestyles I must say I disagree. But then again there is the option of geting a life.

 

[Etoile]

Re: Ouch!

As an older guy dom who wants to be respectful of ancient more ritualized lifestyles I must say I disagree. But then again there is the option of geting a life.

Disagree with what? Getting a life as opposed to what? As I said, I'm younger, and it's not wholly disrepect - mostly just non-comprehension.

 

[MasterNico]

Double ouch

Been here a day or two and already you're losing respect for me. Ouch is right. I understand that you are from a younger crowd and don't "get" what Gor, or old guard leather is all about, but please, do get enough information to make a judgment, before you do. You might insult someone, or look ignorant. Or both.

History of Old Guard Leather

 

[Etoile]

Obviously there's been a misunderstanding here. I didn't mean to indicate that I don't respect either old guard leather groups or Gorean adherents. (Is "Goreans" an acceptable word?) Just because I don't understand a way of life doesn't mean I can't respect it. Hell, I think all of this is poppycock, we're all just finding ways to spend our time before dying. Some of us like to do it one way, others prefer another pasttime. Please stop assuming that just because I'm young means I'm also stupid, and please stop patronizing me. It's really inappropriate if you're trying to get me to respect your point of view.

(If my statement that I respect Goreans less than old guard leather groups offended, I'm sorry. It's true that I have less respect for something based on 1970s fiction than I do for something with a longer history rooted in...well, history.)

 

[Netzach]

I'm young. I'm somewhat new at this. (7 yrs and counting)

I respect Old Guard Leather, a little piece of the queer history near and dear to my heart...

a HELL of a lot more than Gor, which is bad literature and neo Darwinistic hoo ha written by some philo prof. Adopted by hetero guys with a whiny attitude as a banner. No thanks.

Let the stonings commence. I'm expressing a personal preference mixed with a strong indicator of where I am coming from, and the fact that this philosophy has never held a single thing for me. As a woman, as a postmodern, as a leatherwoman, as...me.

I'd rather be honest than popular. And demanding respect for something just because...is automatic grounds for not gettin' it from me.

 

[Peter2002]

Misunderstandings all around

Yikes!

Etoile, my last comments weren't directed at you but at the whole thread. Let me restate for all. While I respect -- and am in some ways am fascinated by -- the deeply structured Gore rituals they are not for me. Hence my wisecracking suggestion that an alternative to that choice is to "get a life."

Nico, I'm relatively new here too. Just accept this all as a free and frank exchange of views. It's one of the only placees I've found where you can do this. Also, thanks for the Old Leather link. Interesting. The WWII stuff makes alot of sense.

Thant's all for now.

 

[MasterNico]

I apologize if I came off arrogant, I didn't meant to.

a HELL of a lot more than Gor, which is bad literature and neo Darwinistic hoo ha written by some philo prof. Adopted by hetero guys with a whiny attitude as a banner.

I'm sorry if I don't agree that this particular quote was expressing a personal preference. Except that bad literature part, amen.

To clear up a few points, if you read my post, all I said was I'm Gorean at heart.

What do you mean by having to earn the title? I'm not familiar with this. And what sort of "cap" do you refer to for those who are called Daddy? I'm not too familiar with Gor in general.

From this post, I saw that there was some confusion, and a misinterpitation <sp?> of my post. I did my best to try to clear up the confusion in 100 words or less.

For my trouble I was TOLD I would get less respect for it. I do not, DID NOT, and will not demand respect or anything else for that matter, from anyone.

I do not "play out stories" and I certainly know I'm not an elf, as I am a Tolkien fan as well.

I was offended. I'll admit it. It came thru in my post and for that I'm sorry.

I can promise you one thing, I'll never make fun of or dismiss YOUR kink, whatever it may be.

 

[Etoile]

For my trouble I was TOLD I would get less respect for it. I do not, DID NOT, and will not demand respect or anything else for that matter, from anyone.
[snip]
I can promise you one thing, I'll never make fun of or dismiss YOUR kink, whatever it may be.

Again, I think there was a misunderstanding. You deserve respect for your personal preferences, just as I do for mine. I may not understand it and I may not ascribe to it, but that doesn't mean I don't respect it. (This is the third time I've said this, I think.)

I do not "play out stories" and I certainly know I'm not an elf, as I am a Tolkien fan as well.

Now, see, here I have to disagree with you entirely. I think you're quite elfin. <g,d,rlh> (I enjoy Tolkien too, so don't worry.)

 

[MasterNico]

Please except my apologies for any misunderstandings.

and pay no attention to the pointy ears.

 

[Netzach]

I don't particularly care if someone dismisses my kinks, it's just beating fucking and spanking. No need to get all reverent. Actually pretty stupid if you take a step back, at least as stupid as straight sex, which is really goofy.

I think I personally take myself too seriously at times and I think that others fall prey to the same syndrome.

Gor doesn't have a premium on the notion of Mastery, that's all. Gor is as pointless to me as a desire to live out Mr. Benson but with all girls in the cast would be to someone else, and that's fine.

What's not fine is me suddenly insisting in the sanctity of Gay Porn of the 70's and the Ways therein. To me and to a lot of people it can be a bible, and if that's the way it is and I'm secure in it, what should I worry? Your failure to bow down is A-ok.

 

[James G 5]

Now, see, here I have to disagree with you entirely. I think you're quite elfin. <g,d,rlh> (I enjoy Tolkien too, so don't worry.)

No
Sorry
I've seen Nico
Heck, I've seen Nico NAKED
Definetly not an Elf
More like a Dwarf, only a little taller

 

[James G 5]

Gor doesn't have a premium on the notion of Mastery, that's all. Gor is as pointless to me as a desire to live out Mr. Benson but with all girls in the cast would be to someone else, and that's fine.

I don't think anyone ever said it did?

 

[catalina_francisco]

I'm with you on this...there are several subs around Lit who can tell you that I usually state early on, "I am A Dom, not YOUR Dom!" My slut and a select (very few) others call me 'Sir'.

Miss these two around here but reading through this thread after so long brought back many happy memories as well as a good discussion some might enjoy adding to.

Catalina

 

[timberwolf05]

Miss Taken?

Maybe it is all semantics, but my guess is that each person has there own translation and use of the term "Master" or "Mistress."
What does it mean to you?
What does it do for you, regardless of role in D/s?
Is it a term you use always or only at certain times?
If you dont use this word in your relationship, why or why not? Do you have another?
Sooooooooooo
let's talk!

----------------------

well well well. my old friend. i have not spoken to You one on one in so long.
You were around when i first came into this lifestyle and always had good sound advice. YOU were the one that directed me to the doctors, for my head problems and after fighting with them for so long, i am now on good meds. i never did get the chance........THANK YOU! You were always so kind to me. even when You chewed my butt once.
==========================================================
what can i do here for You? let's see.
what does it mean to me to use Mistress? a whole lot more than just Ma'am does. it's a higher level of the pedestal.
what does it do for me? getting tougher questions. it gives me, the feeling of privilege and honor that i have earned the use of Mistress.
always use? oh yes, She would have no other way.
i have one other i get away with. m'Lady/m'Ladyship..and do not forget, my Queen and my Queenship.

whew, i got through them all.
You gave me challenge here.
thank You
the wolf

 

[timberwolf05]

names

quint;
Here's a question: I've read several instances where, usually upon collaring, a slave is given a new name by her Dominant

-----------
my new Mistress just changed my name,,,on the street is my given of course, but She calls me a new name, yes.
====
the wolf

 

[yourstruly]

Hi folks.

This is where being tolerant of somebody's kink gets tricky. If you are a neat freak, and you know somebody who's into wet-and-messy sex, you just say "different strokes for different folks." It's easy to see that you don't understand this person's kink, and from there to move on to "well, different strokes..."

However, if you are, for example, a dominant masochist, and you meet somebody who is a dominant non-masochist, you will probably be more tempted to say "OK, that is cool, but I think you are screwing up this part... you are supposed to whip them..." etc.

Ultimately, there is no difference. I will admit that, from a perspective of personal enjoyment, I think "Gor" or whatever you are supposed to call it, is kind of lame. I find it silly and it makes me laugh. Sorry if that offends but that's just the truth.

However, if that's your thing, I am not gonna sit there and tell you you're wrong and try to change your mind... or at least, I'm gonna resist the temptation There are all kinds of kink that makes no sense to me. Unless some adult is getting hurt against their free will, or someone too young to make a choice for themselves is involved, I just try to remember to marvel at the incredible diversity of sexual proclivites out there and live my own life how I want.

However: if your kink involves clown suits or listening to boy bands, I think you are a fucking sicko.

 

[THE_GENTLEMAN]

I'm glad my wife is into this. As I've mentioned before, I never knew she had an S+M fetish. However now that it's all out on the table, I don't mind at all being called master. As a matter of fact, I actaully get kinda into it.

G-MAN

 

[SweetCandy22]

Being since I have never had a d/s relationship, I can't say for sure which one I would use..

But I feel that I like using the word "sir" in my mind and my fantasies, roleplay, etc... Master just doesn't seem right to me.

 

[shy slave]

I have just started to call him Master, but I can't say I feel comfortable doing so.

Not because I don't view him as such, but because its common terminology in this lifestyle.

I always imagine a group meeting and every other person responding to the word 'Master'

I did put out a thread asking what alternatives other people used but none of the suggestions felt 'right'

Master is an alternative to 'sweetie pie' and other affectionate terms, I can't call him fluffy bunny when he is wielding a crop lol

So we are still thinking and looking, I expect when we give up the right word will appear naturally