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Men seeking to write women better

I see you wrote: "4) Just write people/characters -- again, that's fine for main-stream fiction, but not for porn."

Yes, it's an adult site, but there is a common discussion on here: are we writing "porn" or "erotica?" And what is the difference, if any? I'd say there is room here for many different styles depending on the author. There is even a Non-erotic category. I have non-erotic stories and essays on here. The site accepts them, and I'm good to go. There are no rules about how much sex you have to depict.

I think an erotic story has more impact with believable people in it - but, hey, that's just me.

2) " 'Writing from a woman's perspective' -- ye gads, no, I will never attempt that."

Well, you don't have to do that if you don't wish to. But never say never. How do I, a 68-year-old guy in New York, know anything about a woman from North Carolina who is going to school in Maryland? Well, I just made it up! Yet, if she seems real to me, than maybe other people will understand her too. I'm thinking of having her in the next Pink Orchids event, so I think I "get" her.
 
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Sup. As a he-man rather than a she-person, my perspectives on writing fiction to understand realistic female POV might not be the best, but I'll drop my personal thoughts on the matter if you don't mind. I think it's not so much about how realistic a character is as they are relatable or not in fiction. Not to say that having a little bit of realism and believability isn't important but Nobody is 100% the same as the other, a man compared to another man, a woman compared to another woman, or man compared to woman, because nobody fits perfectly a general recipe whether man or woman. People are just people, and people are just different than eachother.

If you want to make a "realistic" character, you just have to understand everyone has motives, everyone has something they're looking for in this crazy ride we call life, and everyone has desires, wants and needs, and everyone has come from somewhere. .Everyone is a little different of course, but I think everyone wants a little excitement in their lives, everyone wants a little purpose or meaning to their life, and everyone has insecurities and fears, passions, and all sorts of dreams from the deeper and more meaningful ones to shallow ones, fantasies of grandeur and power, whether men or women. Or pursuing an exciting adventure whether its to escape or just shake up the usual tedium of everyday life, or just for the sake of a fun adventure Making a character "realistic" is just about the same as getting to know someone in real life. Asking the right questions and showing genuine curiosity in your character as a person, their tastes, dreams, etc is what it takes to really get that ball rolling. It's all about why.

But if you were really to ask me, I think "interesting or relatable" is what's more important for a character people would like. People relate to people. And relatable, is more someone who you'd wanna know and understand better and empathize with, not just how realistically similar they are as a reader to you, man or woman, per se. Even then, they don't have to be completely relatable for people to like them.
 
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Oh, here's a tip I know when it comes to guys that don't write female characters "realistically," from what I've seen, and from what I've heard some example complains. When writing or introducing a character, ask what details would she use to describe herself, and finally what details would other characters in the story would use to describe her? What details are really important that these characters would focus on? Some traps I've seen that some guys who write "unrealistic" females that come off as sex toys with the personality of blowup dolls, is them writing first unrealistic descriptions, namely things like the EXACT MEASUREMENTS of their cupsize, or their exact measurements(hip, waist, bust, etc) and then how horny they are without the consequences of acting horny regardless of the situation. I don't think girls walk around with a mind on how their "DD" boobs bounce like two "frolicking sheep in the pasture"(I forget where I read something like that, I know I read that SOMEWHERE online, I think it was posted online as an example for a female character in a story on the subject of men writing "unrealistic female characters"). Or their exact measurements on their hips, waist, and bust playing into how they walk as the way they would want to introduce themselves.

Realistically, most people wouldn't be able to just know what a girl's measurements are just by looking at them, and most girls would probably feel awkward if that's what most people would see as an important trait to note about them by other people.

Also, most girls that are drop dead gorgeous with an amazing sleeper body wouldn't get at least some kind of regular affirmation that they're drop dead gorgeous from guys even if they wear casual clothes and aren't usually dressed up to the nines until Chad, a 6 foot tall alpha that gets all the ladies with his foot long dong lets her know how pretty she is. Nor would she be fawning and falling for him because his dick is so big that its size makes her cum and go crazy. I might be overgeneralizing but THAT can be unrealistic, even a man like me can see that.

Finally, sex: Sex from what I've seen from some stories(not all, obviously) on this site seems inspired from porn scenes with a guy just stuffing a girl and her screaming "I'm cummiiiiinnnggggg," and mechanical or crude description of what goes where and how hard that humping is until its over. Sometimes just no emotion other than horniness and cumming. Sex is complicated, there's emotions, intimacy, passions(whether sweet and sensual or dirty and animalistic)... and there's a lot more to it than just visuals and peepee going in vajayjay and gag-reflex free throats. If you avoid these pitfalls, you're probably covered.
 
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gunhilltrain said:
an erotic story has more impact with believable people in it
Click to expand...

Yes, and _maybe_ that is a difference between erotic and porn. I like to think that as I've grown as a writer that perhaps I have improved in that regard. From writing simple "letters to Forum" style strokers to (hopefully) more engaging erotica. Yet, similar to how you described one of your stories, maybe erotica isn't as explicit as porn.
Erotica -- more character, less explicit.
Porn -- more explicit, less character.
I am kinda aiming for a point in between -- just as explicit, yet a bit more character, and try to avoid pissing people off.

When writing a 3500 word story (e.g. Summer Rains) for publication in a porn magazine, there may be little room for "good" writing, but I hope I did OK.
I like to think that my longer stories have more depth, but they tend to fizzle out and remain unfinished. Writer's block sucks.
 
ArdentHemingway said:
I'm here. I find it difficult to respond when the messages aren't threaded.
And then it seems that a discussion of football broke out, so I let that play out.
I also went and checked out the Pink Orchid discussion as recommended.
It's now 07:20 Monday here in Phoenix and I'm about to have some coffee. May I pour you a mug?
I'd read a story you think is a good example. But I doubt it will help with the particular issue I began with.
Click to expand...
This thread might be more helpful than this one, with the talk of foozball and bitching all over. https://forum.literotica.com/threads/how-do-you-write-from-an-opposite-gender-perspective.1596383/
 
Again, I don't think you need a woman to tell you how to write a woman. I've never asked a man how to write a male in any of my stories. It's just a matter of reading, observing, and writing the character in a three-dimensional way.
 
MillieDynamite said:
Again, I don't think you need a woman to tell you how to write a woman. I've never asked a man how to write a male in any of my stories. It's just a matter of reading, observing, and writing the character in a three-dimensional way.
Click to expand...
three dimensions... math coming back to me... h * w * L, isn't it?

"The six-foot-even bombshell had wider hips than a Porsche's rear fenders, and tits and ass out to here."
 
“Lisa, Wanda and Bamagan’s art is getting me excited. What do you think of inviting their models to our suite for some fun times?”

“Great idea, Hero! You fix us some drinks, I’ll make friends with them. [whispers] And I’ll be ready to impersonate them should it go bad.”

“I love you.”

“I know.”
 
ArdentHemingway said:
I expect this has been discussed here many times, but a quick search of this forum didn't find any.
As a straight man trying to write erotic fiction (porn) involving women -- MF and FF scenarios -- my audience is primarily straight men. Yet I don't want to piss off any women readers. I know that it is common for men to write women poorly, and I am no exception. So I want to improve how I write women.

I have seen that sometimes someone will ask something like, "why do men write women so poorly?" and someone else will respond, "because they don't ask for help". This may generally be true. But, yesterday I asked for help on another "adult" site and I was shut down. So another answer to the question would be, ** "because women won't help them when they ask" **.

The mod where I had asked had assumed:
1) That I was writing main-stream fiction -- no, I'm writing porn, I asked on an adult site after all, I think it's reasonable to assume that I'm writing porn
2) That I was describing an underaged girl -- no, I was asking for advice about describing the mother (probably about forty years old) of a "barely legal" girl (which is another whole can of worms)

To quote: "we do not sexualize underage girls in this group, and that's the only reason why you would need to describe her breast shape. I'm going to refer you to "men writing women" sources for more information about how men utterly fail in writing female characters."

Then, of course, the mod did not actually refer me to anything at all, just closed the thread.
My own searches for such advice leads only to advice about writing main-stream fiction, not porn.
I found advice about:
1) "Writing for women" (i.e. a female audience) -- which is not what I am asking for.
2) "Writing from a woman's perspective" -- ye gads, no, I will never attempt that.
3) Get a woman as a beta reader -- yes, that's good advice for when the story is more complete.
4) Just write people/characters -- again, that's fine for main-stream fiction, but not for porn.

[rant over]

My point is that women need* [clarification: should not refuse] to help men write women better -- particularly in erotic fiction -- at least when a man actually asks for help.
Dismissing male authors as unteachable doesn't help improve things. Some of us recognize our faults and want to improve.
"A man's gotta know his limitations." -- Harry Callahan

* Yes, mea culpa, I should not have said it that way. I meant "we men need help from women". Isn't it more common to say, "I need to water the plants", rather than, "the plants need me to water them"?
Click to expand...
Why are these requests treated with disdain???

If we look a little deeper. There are women writers in here who write wonderful stories, including from male perspectives....
And yet, you don't see requests for men to help them write male characters....
I treat all of these requests as creepy, because they are. This is not a dating site.

If you want to understand female perspectives.
I suggest as others here have already offered. Read the popular female writers.....

Cagivagurl
 
Cagivagurl said:
Why are these requests treated with disdain???

If we look a little deeper. There are women writers in here who write wonderful stories, including from male perspectives....
And yet, you don't see requests for men to help them write male characters....
I treat all of these requests as creepy, because they are. This is not a dating site.

If you want to understand female perspectives.
I suggest as others here have already offered. Read the popular female writers.....

Cagivagurl
Click to expand...

ArdentHemingway, you didn't know that you're the third guy (at least) this year who basically asked the same question. It's become a trope on AH, along with complaining about the readers and complaining about the site itself.
 
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