Men seeking to write women better

[EmilyMiller]

Why are these requests treated with disdain???

If we look a little deeper. There are women writers in here who write wonderful stories, including from male perspectives....
And yet, you don't see requests for men to help them write male characters....
I treat all of these requests as creepy, because they are. This is not a dating site.

If you want to understand female perspectives.
I suggest as others here have already offered. Read the popular female writers.....

Cagivagurl

You tell it how it is, gurl!

Em

 

[Euphony]

Watch Spice World on original PAL DVD, backwards.

This is the only way to unlock the true secret.

 

[Bamagan]

I’m really an old, hairy, hominid. And I would have got away with it too, if it wasn’t for you kids and your pesky dog.

Em

Good old Scooby Doo. Teaching the important lesson that most monsters are just assholes hiding behind a mask.

 

[ArdentHemingway]

you're the third guy (at least) this year who basically asked the same question

I wouldn't be surprised, and I hope that things are better here on Lit. Plus, maybe that other site wasn't a very good venue to ask anyway.
My main thrust (if I may say it that way) was to point out that some of us encounter the following:
Alice: Men never ask for help.
Bob: I'd like some help.
Alice: F-off, go do some research yourself.

 

[EmilyMiller]

Alice: Men never ask for help.
Bob: I'd like some help.
Alice: F-off, go do some research yourself.

The problem is that Carol listened in as the communication wasn’t secure.

Disclaimer: No public keys were shared in the writing of this message.

Em

 

[pink_silk_glove]

I wouldn't be surprised, and I hope that things are better here on Lit. Plus, maybe that other site wasn't a very good venue to ask anyway.
My main thrust (if I may say it that way) was to point out that some of us encounter the following:
Alice: Men never ask for help.
Bob: I'd like some help.
Alice: F-off, go do some research yourself.

In what way(s) do you want your female characters to be written better? What makes you feel that your women aren't up to par? What shortcomings do you feel that they have? Physically? Emotionally? Intellectually? In some other way?

 

[ArdentHemingway]

In what way(s) do you want your female characters to be written better? What makes you feel that your women aren't up to par? What shortcomings do you feel that they have? Physically? Emotionally? Intellectually? In some other way?

:heavy sigh: It's not about my characters. It's about people not helping when another person actually asks for help.

 

[onehitwanda]

The problem is that Carol listened in as the communication wasn’t secure.

Disclaimer: No public keys were shared in the writing of this message.

Em

 

[pink_silk_glove]

:heavy sigh: It's not about my characters. It's about people not helping when another person actually asks for help.

Okaaaay ... I have offered to help you ... twice (!!) ... but it turns out you're not interested in help with writing, so I guess I shall withdraw my services as it turns out that actually is another creep meetup thread as others have suspected after all. Sayonara from me. Have fun dealing with the rest of this bunch.

 

[HordHolm]

:heavy sigh: It's not about my characters. It's about people not helping when another person actually asks for help.

1. People have given you some solid advice in this thread. You asked for advice, and believe me, you've got it. That you may not like the advice you've got is neither here nor there.
2. People have also provided some coherent information as to why women on this forum might feel a bit of squick factor when seeing these kind of requests because of things that have gone before. Whether you accept this is, again, neither here nor there - it doesn't change the fact that many women here feel apprehensive. Faced with this knowledge you can either a) tailor your approach accordingly or, b) blunder on expecting everyone to change for you. Currently you seem to be choosing option b. How's that going for you?
3. Finally, and importantly, you haven't really been very clear as to what it is you actually want - you want help to write female characters, but they mustn't be too realistic, but they mustn't be unrealistic because writing women in porn isn't like writing women 'in real life', but they have to be characters that people believe seems to be what I can glean from your posts. Well, what is it, actually, because it's as clear as mud right now.

 

[Euphony]

:heavy sigh: It's not about my characters. It's about people not helping when another person actually asks for help.

You not getting help in the exact way you envisioned is not you NOT getting help.

Numerous people stepped up, tried to decode your ambiguous ask, and offered a kaleidoscope of solutions for you to try and find what style might work for you.

You dismissed them.

Character, being the backbone of ALL storytelling was offered as a direction to consider. Even in stroke, it's rare a story wouldn't benefit from more compelling characters.

You dismissed that as well. "Not in porn."

Many of us out of ideas or flat out exasperated by the constant rebuffs, mentioned search as a possible solution. This topic comes up all the time. If, by chance, we didn't hit on the very narrow solution you are so sure you need, maybe someone else solved it your envisioned way before. Maybe something will click or you can find more specific questions to ask than "I need help."

You dismissed that too.

Your constant dismissals and heavy sighs read as if you are simply uninterested in doing the work necessary to improve or to even ask better questions so we have something to work with in trying to help you.

The pity party vibes after many have earnestly tried to help you in a number of different ways is frankly insulting to their efforts and isn't doing you any favors getting what seems like very specific help you seem to think you need instead of actually doing a little work and/or showing some effort.





Good luck.

 

[MillieDynamite]

Considering what @Euphony just posted, what specific things are you wanting to know? How to select a bra? How to navigate the room in high heels or spiked boots? How that time of the month feels, affects your moods, or what to use to stem the flow? How we handle sexual discrimination and workplace harassment? Might your interest be in how we handle someone we are interested in? How we deflate another person's interest in us, without shattering him?

 

[ArdentHemingway]

You asked for advice,

No, I did not. Or rather, I did on the other site, but not on this one.

these kind of requests

I made no request other than that if someone asks for help, it makes no sense to refuse it while complaining that people don't ask for help.

what it is you actually want

Just consistency.

you want help to write female characters

No, I don't, but others probably do and no one seems to help them when they ask.
No one _has_ to help anyone else, but saying nothing is better than shutting someone down or offering an irrelevant response.

it's as clear as mud right now

There is a good chance you need to go back and read what I posted.

 

[MillieDynamite]

This is what you said.

My point is that women need* [clarification: should not refuse] to help men write women better -- particularly in erotic fiction -- at least when a man actually asks for help.
Dismissing male authors as unteachable doesn't help improve things. Some of us recognize our faults and want to improve.

We have offered information, suggestions, and reading material to use. But none of us are going to hold your hand while you write about women.

 

[Euphony]

Season's greetings to all that celebrate.

 

[djrip]

No, I did not. Or rather, I did on the other site, but not on this one.


I made no request other than that if someone asks for help, it makes no sense to refuse it while complaining that people don't ask for help.


Just consistency.


No, I don't, but others probably do and no one seems to help them when they ask.
No one _has_ to help anyone else, but saying nothing is better than shutting someone down or offering an irrelevant response.


There is a good chance you need to go back and read what I posted.

Well this whole thread has been people thinking you wanted help and offering it. So, if you did actually want help, we've seen here that people would give it to you (or whoever).

 

[HordHolm]

No, I did not. Or rather, I did on the other site, but not on this one.


I made no request other than that if someone asks for help, it makes no sense to refuse it while complaining that people don't ask for help.


Just consistency.


No, I don't, but others probably do and no one seems to help them when they ask.
No one _has_ to help anyone else, but saying nothing is better than shutting someone down or offering an irrelevant response.


There is a good chance you need to go back and read what I posted.

Heavy sigh: You originally posted that you had been on another site asking for advice but had been booted out and were coming here instead. Part of you post was indeed a rant that dem evil wimmin won't help poor little old you or people like you. However, the inference to be drawn was that you wished to be provided with the advice so wickedly withheld from you elsewhere.

But never mind, you are boring me now so I'm out of here. Good luck with whatever... no, I can't. Just don't bother me and I won't bother you.

 

[ArdentHemingway]

We have offered information, suggestions, and reading material to use.

Which means you didn't understand my post _I_did_not_ask_for_advice_. I had merely hoped to provide advice to others.

 

[pink_silk_glove]

I know that I excused myself from this convo but this just floors me so ...

You asked for advice

No, I did not. Or rather, I did on the other site, but not on this one.

I beg to differ.

There is a good chance you need to go back and read what I posted.

Okay then. From the opening post.

As a straight man trying to write erotic fiction (porn) involving women -- MF and FF scenarios -- my audience is primarily straight men. Yet I don't want to piss off any women readers. I know that it is common for men to write women poorly, and I am no exception. So I want to improve how I write women.

 

[ArdentHemingway]

the inference to be drawn was that you wished to be provided with the advice

So do you now recognize that it is the inference itself which is at fault?

 

[MillieDynamite]

I'll answer for him, no, no, he does not.

You said this, implying that you need more information.

My own searches for such advice leads only to advice about writing main-stream fiction, not porn.
I found advice about:
1) "Writing for women" (i.e. a female audience) -- which is not what I am asking for.
2) "Writing from a woman's perspective" -- ye gads, no, I will never attempt that.
3) Get a woman as a beta reader -- yes, that's good advice for when the story is more complete.
4) Just write people/characters -- again, that's fine for main-stream fiction, but not for porn.

But if you weren't asking for more or clearer information, I'm sorry, it reads like. But whether you're writing mainstream fiction or erotica, women are women and need to have their own personalities and quirks. You don't need more information bout "PORN" and mainstream. (Which isn't two separate words nor a hyphenated word but just a word, mainstream). If you concentrate on the porn of it, there isn't character development. I write dirty erotic stories, not porn.

 

[pink_silk_glove]

So do you now recognize that it is the inference itself which is at fault?

No, you're at fault.

And your assertion that women won't help a man when he asks for help has been proven horribly wrong by the number of women in this thread who have offered to help you which you refuse to take. Case closed.

This is the most mind-boggling thread that I've ever seen on this forum.

 

[MillieDynamite]

Your post reads like someone asking for advice. We can't be held responsible for misunderstanding poorly written advice as seeking advice because it absofuckinglutly reads as you seeking help.

Which means you didn't understand my post _I_did_not_ask_for_advice_. I had merely hoped to provide advice to others.

Hence, every writer here trying to give advice to you.

 

[ArdentHemingway]

implying that you need more information

I implied no such thing.

And while I'm sure all the advice which was provided may be helpful to others, I didn't ask for it and I don't need it.

the most mind-boggling thread

I concur.

 

[MillieDynamite]

I concur as well.

No, you're at fault.

And your assertion that women won't help a man when he asks for help has been proven horribly wrong by the number of women in this thread who have offered to help you which you refuse to take. Case closed.