Message to Authors

[Dragonette]

I agree

Laurel said

I go along with that. I admit I watch the voting like a hawk for the first week or so after a new story is posted, but only so that I can get a feel for how it is being received. It is the feedback that really means a lot to me. The 1s hurt at first but amuse me now, because I know my writing isn't that bad.

What does upset me is if a reader takes the time to give me feedback, makes a valid point or asks a question, and doesn't supply an e-mail address for me to respond!

Please readers, provide an e-mail address. I like to thank those who provide me with feedback and to answer their questions, but without an address I can't.

Alex

I rarely check my voting, I enjoy feedback, and yes, the critic ones are always anonymous!

But without anything constructive, so I tend to ignore them.

I have a series going, and usually it is from one chapter, does it mean they don't like that chapter or the whole thing, have they read the whole thing?

Average is, I get more good feedback, with an email address, asking me to continue and to tell them when I written more!

That means more than anything!
So, I now have a fan list!
LOL

Malicious voting is strange, you mean someone spends all there time going through the H stories just to vote them a 1!

Sounds like that person needs a life!

 

[Jigs]

originally posted by DVS

I have noticed something rather interesting in the top list section. There are 500 stories in lists, unless noted.

Lesbian Sex........ 4.72-4.32
Celebrities.......... 4.71-2.34
Erotic Couplings.. 4.69-4.46
Loving Wifes....... 4.66-3.37
NonConsent....... 4.66-4.18
Fetish............... 4.62-4.18
BDSM............... 4.55-4.30
NonHuman......... 4.72-2.24 only 419 on list
Gay Male........... 4.71-1.74 only 420 on list
Anal................. 4.71-2.34 only 247 on list

These are only a few of the list totals. But, incest is clearly above most other categories in favorable voting. This shows that all 500 of these incest stories will have at least a 4.50 rating and H. I guess I was grossly unaware of how popular this fetish is. Also, I heard the person or persons who are going around voting 1s on the H rated stories is mainly doing it in the BDSM area. Did I hear this correctly? If so, maybe my category isn't so low on the list, after all. Personally, I thought BDSM was more popular than these totals show. Maybe I should change to incest stories.

I find these a statistics fascinating and I'm grateful to DVS for compiling them. Also, as he does, I find the popularity of the incest category to be mind-boggling particularly since on the BB postings everyone seems to deny any interest in either writing or reading there. Moreover, I find the voting averages in the category to be incredibly high. I'm sure the better of the incest stories are well written, but I am incredulous that those who write in that category are so much better than those of us who post somewhere else.

Are there 'voting terrorists' out in cyberspace who cast 1 votes without regard to the quality of the story (and probably without reading it)? If so they are as a shadowy and uncertain as Big Foot or the little green men in UFOs. Personally, I believe as an article of faith that the 'voting terrorist' exists. Why would anyone do such a thing? I can't imagine, but the two best guesses are either because (1)they think the category is perverse (although interestingly they apparently don't ravage the insist category), or (2)they simply think such sabotage is cute.

When it comes to actual voting I am one of those either 4 or 5, or don't vote at all, people. I justify that because I seldom read a story this not on the first page of the top list in any given category. I have neither the time nor inclination to sample smorgasbord. However imperfect grading by reader votes might be, those high on the top lists are usually pretty well done, and the quality becomes more uncertain the further down the list you go. This doesn't mean that a story that is temporarily first with 20 votes is necessarily better than one that is 13 per 14th with 300 to 600 votes. It probably isn't as good (but at the same time I must admit to reading some damn good ones that started off in the top five, and then dropped off into purgatory for reasons that I find inexplicable.

Seldom mentioned up to now on this thread is the importance of the total number of votes accumulated. I think that item may be more indicative of the quality of the story than its average on the 1-5 scale. At the very least, a high number of votes cast indicates that a sizable number of people only finished the story, but also felt strongly enough about it, to cast a vote. I find it stories with high numbers of votes cast, and reasonable quality averages are almost always could ones.

 

[Dragonette]

Aye

When it comes to actual voting I am one of those either 4 or 5, or don't vote at all, people. I justify that because I seldom read a story this not on the first page of the top list in any given category. I have neither the time nor inclination to sample smorgasbord. However imperfect grading by reader votes might be, those high on the top lists are usually pretty well done, and the quality becomes more uncertain the further down the list you go. This doesn't mean that a story that is temporarily first with 20 votes is necessarily better than one that is 13 per 14th with 300 to 600 votes. It probably isn't as good (but at the same time I must admit to reading some damn good ones that started off in the top five, and then dropped off into purgatory for reasons that I find inexplicable.

I think a few posting usually gets a five, then with viewings it drops.

I rarely have time to read now, just friends ones.

I read the latest, top ones, and many were really bad, then they dropped down fast!

When I feel like reading I go to a category I like, some of mine should change category, but when I posted them, there was less choice.

 

[KillerMuffin]

Voting is a popularity contest.

Do you remember the clusterfuck in Florida? There was a demanded recount because the punchcards that hadn't gotten punched all the way through needed to be counted and they weren't originally.

Then there was the yowling because the ballots were created badly and some people later said that they believed they were voting for Gore when they were voting for Buchanan.

Well, let this be a lesson. You can't ever for any reason whatsoever no matter how hard you try, postulate, theorize, or decide why you got a "1" vote. You don't know why and you will never know why unless someone writes to you and says "I gave you a 1 because {insert excuse here}."

Unless told otherwise I believe all of my 1 votes are legitimate. The person did not like something in the story enough to vote a 1 as opposed to illegitimate, voting a 1 to advance another person's story or voting a string of 1's for any reason. From the two pieces of legitimate 1-vote feedback I've gotten, it's content that they object to.

There are people who vote 1's on all interracial stories, they don't necessarily read them either. They vote a 1 and they do it once. Is that vote legitimate? Yes, it is. They intend to express their dislike of interracial stories and they have done so.

There are authors who vote a single 1 on every story that's in direct competition with them. Is that vote legitimate? No, it's not. Their purpose is to advance their own work and has nothing to do with what they thought of the work they're voting on.

If your scores read:

5
4
5
1
1
3
4

Which 1 vote is illegitimate? There is absolutely no way to tell based on the fact that it's a 1. The way that I can tell my 1 votes are not legitmate is when Laurel goes through and removes them because someone has been fucking around with the top lists.

My opinion boils down to the this: I wouldn't permit voting on my stories if there was no "1." If there were only shiny happy numbers permissible then I may as well just give it to my mother to read and forgo the general public--the ones who grade what they read based only on the work itself and not on my personal feelings.

Sure, there's voter fraud, but it's not nearly as prevelant as people think it is. Anyone who assumes that a 1 vote has entirely too much ego. There are legitimately people out there who can't stand what you've written.

 

[Laurel]

The big question is: what constitutes voter fraud?

To me, voter fraud occurs when a person or persons attempts to subvert the system by intentionally casting multiple votes on a story - be them 1s, 2s, 3s, 4s, or 5s. Our system is set up to detect those.

If a person doesn't like the fact that the protagonist is blonde and decides to give you a single 1-vote, that is not voter fraud. If he hates interracial stories and gives you a single 1-vote, that is not voter fraud either. Every reader has the right to a single vote on every story, and they can decide that vote however they see fit. Whether you happen to agree with how they arrived at that vote is beside the point. If someone votes for George W. Bush simply because they don't like men named Al - that's a stupid reason IMHO but it is their right to vote.

The flip side of the coin which is never discussed is the number of 5 votes that are cast because the reader is friends with the author, because the reader likes interracial and votes them all highly, because many readers only give 5s. Oddly, I've never heard anyone complain about the legitimacy of 5 votes even though they are as subject to voter whim as 1s - and given out much more frequently.

Here's a thread that illustrates this:
http://forum.literotica.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=48182

 

[Quasimodem]

"I voted you a #1, because your story deserves to be on top!"

That's why there are no foolproof systems for anything.

Fools are so imaginative!

 

[Jigs]

originally posted by KillerMuffin

There are people who vote 1's on all interracial stories, they don't necessarily read them either. They vote a 1 and they do it once. Is that vote legitimate? Yes, it is. They intend to express their dislike of interracial stories and they have done so. There are authors who vote a single 1 on every story that's in direct competition with them. Is that vote legitimate? No, it's not. Their purpose is to advance their own work and has nothing to do with what they thought of the work they're voting on.

Muffin, this is a distinction without a difference. It is no more legitimate to grade a story in order to advance a political, social or racial bias and/or belief than it is to further any other personal agenda. To vote a 1 simply because the story competes with the grader's own is reprehensible. To a vote a 1 because the grader disapproves of its subject matter is censorship by vandalism, the literary equivalent of bombing an abortion center.

My opinion boils down to the this: I wouldn't permit voting on my stories if there was no "1." If there were only shiny happy numbers permissible then I may as well just give it to my mother to read and forgo the general public--the ones who grade what they read based only on the work itself and not on my personal feelings.

I can see no distinction between your mother's 5, and the 1 given because the story featured interracial sex. Each is equally irrational, unfair, and fundamentally dishonest.

Beyond that point, however, I whole hardly agree with you. Every voter certainly should have the option to say, "this is a piece of crap". I have no quarrel with that, and I agree low votes are sometimes deserved and honestly given (to my stories as well as everyone else's).

Fair enough, but there is no such thing as "honest bias". My objection is to pure vandalism, destruction for the sake of destruction by what I believe to be a sizable number of "voter terrorists" that statistics indicate plague some categories more than others. Moreover, I agree that there are as many undeserved 5's given by our readers as there are undeserved 1's. the Devil, however, is in the details of the math. A 5 averaged with a 1 = 3. It requires at least 2 1/2 votes of 5 to offset a single 1, and that is the bottom line.

I acknowledge that I can bitch till hell freezes over, and nothing is going to change because the situation is not anyone's fault but the vandals. No system can be immunized from idiots (certainly not in the condominiums of Florida), although I still firmly believe it would be better at Literotica to throw out a percentage of high and low scores before the average is struck).

 

[ornry1]

OK OK, I started this to let the writers know what I thought and have received some excellent posts from several of them as well as other readers. Based on what I have seen here it appears that feedback is just as important, if not more important to alot of you than the voting. Giving feedback I have to admit has been my weakest point and on reflection I am not real sure why, but rest assured it will no longer be that way. CONGRATS TO YOU ALL for the time you give so that others may enjoy, Thanks

 

[Quasimodem]

Feedback, even of the "You Stink!" or "Fantastic!" variety, requires some work. Good feedback requires actual thought, and work.

It is much easier to stick a 1 to a story a reader does not like, rather than analyse it, to be able to describe what s/he felt was wrong. (S/he can still give it a 1.)

[BTW: Award the score first, then the Feedback.
I don't know why, but once you have sent a reply, you can no longer return to enter your vote.
At least, that is my experience.]

Alternately, it is easier to award a 5 to a story a reader did like, rather than analyse it, to be able to describe what s/he felt the author did particularly well.

But, even the worst authors, put in at least as much time writing the story as a reader would filling out a considered opinion of what the author did well, and what the author did ill.

Most of the good writers, unless they can write a perfect first draft, invest hours and hours of time, making their story the best they can. And they want constructive criticism to enable them to become better.

If nobody rewards them (not with praise) but with honest criticize, the reader has no one to blame but themself, when good writers stop publishing here.

I'm sorry, that was three cents worth, wasn't it?

 

[NoJo]

Why Voting matters

I think voting is really important if you're seeking to write stories with a broad appeal. I intend to do that (not yet, I still have lots of weird, difficult stories to write). I'll try to cleverly rip off the top stories, without trying to make it too obviously plagiaristic. I think that's a valid skill that deserves rewards -- just like writing Pop music well. You need to be both original and derivative, and not stretch the audience too much.

Feedback is good for learning understand the craft of writing stories, and in my case to make sure that what I thought I was communicating actually gets communicated.

If someone tell you they were confused by a sentence, or doesn't get the motivation in your story you tend to look at it and at least think about how you might rewrite it, even if you don't end up actually rewriting.

 

[Dragonette]

Sub Joe

I intend to do that (not yet, I still have lots of weird, difficult stories to write). I'll try to cleverly rip off the top stories, without trying to make it too obviously plagiaristic. I think that's a valid skill that deserves rewards -- just like writing Pop music well. You need to be both original and derivative, and not stretch the audience too much.

I really hope you did not mean that!
Never try to take someones story and rewrite it as your own.
You can use the idea, and create a new story, but never play with something another has written. It is theirs and should be theirs always!

 

[Guest]

Mixing things

I have thought for some time that the 1 to 5 scale does not allow me to express anything tangible about a story.

There are stories I would like to give a five for their ingenuity, characterisation, and pleasurability. Some of those stories I would like to give a one for orthography.

When I start to read a badly spelled or severely ungrammatical story, usually off-line because I pay per minute, I stop and edit it for such errors and then read it. This especially applies to writers for whom English is clearly not their mother tongue.

Perhaps we should have two 1 to 5 scales; we could call them "Artistic Impression" and "Technical Merit".

Anyway, the upshot is that I never vote, and when I think a story is artistically good, I say so in a signed feedback. If I think it is dull or uninteresting I assume that it is because my tastes do not agree with some other people's tastes and do nothing.

With some authors I have offered constructive suggestions for improving the technical parts of their writing. These have invariably been welcomed.

 

[NCmVoyeur]

Re: Mixing things

Perhaps we should have two 1 to 5 scales; we could call them "Artistic Impression" and "Technical Merit".

Oh, excellent idea.

I think we should also have a 'compulsory' competition, in which each author first submits a card-game-among-friends-turns-into-'something-more' story. After that, you're permitted to move to the 'freestyle' competition.

 

[Dragonette]

Re: Mixing things

I have thought for some time that the 1 to 5 scale does not allow me to express anything tangible about a story.

There are stories I would like to give a five for their ingenuity, characterisation, and pleasurability. Some of those stories I would like to give a one for orthography.

When I start to read a badly spelled or severely ungrammatical story, usually off-line because I pay per minute, I stop and edit it for such errors and then read it. This especially applies to writers for whom English is clearly not their mother tongue.

Perhaps we should have two 1 to 5 scales; we could call them "Artistic Impression" and "Technical Merit".

Anyway, the upshot is that I never vote, and when I think a story is artistically good, I say so in a signed feedback. If I think it is dull or uninteresting I assume that it is because my tastes do not agree with some other people's tastes and do nothing.

With some authors I have offered constructive suggestions for improving the technical parts of their writing. These have invariably been welcomed.

My lost charmer!
We have emailed, and all your words were taken well!

Like you, I read offline, I know it changes the percentage by viewing, or I believe it does, and even if my own grammar is lacking, at lest I can spell.

I so hate bad spelling, especially the i and the typing on numbers instead of the words.

If it is really good, the story, theme and idea, then I will fix, the spelling etc, and send a constructive feedback (including my email address) I will then go and vote.


I had to look up orthography, not a word I would use normally, says ornamentation.

To vote a story down or bad, maybe some are just in the wrong category. Most of mine are, I had less choice on categories when I posted them.

So many categories are border line, it is hard to decide which one your story should go to. Some are obvious, but even something like "Incest" could be romantic I suppose, or BDSM.

If I go to a category I like and read something that seems to be more of 'Incest' or 'Group Sex', I don't vote. Then I may take the time to send a feedback, to say that it is in the wrong place, in my humble opion!

Voting is not a true measure, feedback is better I think.

But bad feedback from 'Anonymous' is sad, unless it says something constuctive.

 

[NoJo]

Dragonette

Ms D,

I wouldn't rip someone off! I don't want to, I'm not capable of it, and nor are most people, in my opinion.

People write the stories they like, and it's lucky for them if they turn out to be popular. Conscious attempts to be popular probably come out worse. It's so much easier just to WRITE.

We all "steal" ideas, or rather we get ideas from other people, but I really believe it's almost impossible to rip someone off (I mean by rewriting their story) without it being obvious. It's like trying to mimic someone else. We really can't do it as well as the original.

In my post I was being a little provocative. I like to do that.

If you read my stories, whether or not you like them, I don't believe you'llfind the slightest trace of what I was facetiously describing doing.

But -- when money gets involved, this sort of thing DOES happen, unpleasant though it is!

 

[Guest]

Re: Re: Mixing things

... at lest I can spell.
...

ROFL

 

[Guest]

Re: Re: Mixing things

I had to look up orthography, not a word I would use normally, says ornamentation.

It means correct (as in generally accepted, not a moral judgement) use of language, ie spelling and grammar combined.
ortho- right
graphos write