My Votes Were Erased

[annaswirls]

Ah, it's good to be king! Or is that a bishop?

I eat Kings for breakfast.
The bishop is busy blessing me elsewhere.

 

[mojo_cat]

IMHO the voting thing is nuts anyways. I have never understood how a poem or story can have 500+ views and one vote. Sites like hotornot.com have made it clear to me that people love rating things, so that leads me to believe the "reads" and pageviews are mostly people clicking quickly and moving on.

It's be nice, I think, if the reads could be tied to unique pageviews instead of refreshes. Most sites count reads as visits of more than 30 seconds, and pagviews as pagelands less than 30 seconds. I don't mind about the votes, I'd rather know how many people actually read the work than how many votes it got.

I had one poem get voted down from a 4.5 or something to a 2.2 in one day of being on the toplist, then three days later be back at 4.5. I never did quite understand that, since mathematically the number of votes just didn't work out for that to happen.

I like the public comments thing more, and the emails are cool, although i have received some very long, very nasty ones in the past from people on the story forum who didn't like the fact that I posted non-erotic fiction. Just reams and reams of "wtf this site is for porn dumbass." I kept those

 

[Angeline]

silly boy

nah. d was right. you are the funniest person in the world.

 

[twelveoone]

eve I don't even look at my ratings anymore for most of the poets here have had their feelings hurt in some way or another <thin skinned I guess> <laughing> and I get one votes by the half dozen, that is why I was suprised to hear I had a poem back on the top list and have not gone to see which cause I know it will be shot down as soon as 12 or sack hears this. < I get two one votes per poem>

My point was that I don't give out defacing votes in duplicate or I should say with intent to teach them a lesson by giving a low vote. Why don't I turn off voting, I hear that alot.... because of the monthly mentions <know what I mean?> of course the obtuse wouldn't have figured that one out <laughing>

how does giving a three help any one? It socks them from getting any 'H' or monthly mentions. Do you enjoy getting a pocket full of threes or a handfull of fives? so why not give out what you like ...unless? well you are wicked <grin>

pathetic, pathetic

neither from me, I must be remiss in my duty

 

[quietpoet]

Censorship is the right word

Censorship is exactly what we have here. The entire voting system is bullshit and needs to be dropped. The moderators are totally jerks for not understanding that some people look at votes for a little bit pride in something they have created. Is it nice playing God with people's feelings? Poetry is personal, intimate. The idiot that votes a 0 or pulls votes because they don't like the content is moronic. The moderators that allow votes to be pulled OFF of poems are hypocritical. Every moderator needs to be removed and replaced. I will volunteer. I know of MANY "H"'s that have been removed because someone was jealous or whatever. These people are clueless as to what a good poem is anyway.

I thought that by posting here there would be people that weren't into the cliques of other sites. I was wrong. If the system won't change, I will end my personal affiliation. After losing 7 votes on one specific poem, the truth about the people running this site is evident. You don't like me or the people I am close to on the site. I don't need you to know that my writing passes the bar.


Not so
Quiet Poet

yeah censorship is a pretty inflammatory word, I should know better.

 

[bogusbrig]

Poetry is personal, intimate. The idiot that votes a 0 or pulls votes because they don't like the content is moronic.

Quiet Poet

Poetry like any other art form ceases to be personal and intimate once you publish it. You put yourself up there in the shape of your work to be shot at and if it attracts the occasional moron that is the price one pays for sharing ones work. One just has to be adult about it and rise above the people who set out to be destructive, though not all criticism is destructive and sometimes people's work is just plain bad.

My self, I prefer to pass over bad work rather than comment on it but it is the perogative of the reader if s/he wants to slate some work s/he's read, after all posting work is an invitation for someone to read it. If one's work is personal and intimate and they want to keep it that way, they shouldn't publish it.

 

[My Erotic Tale]

Poetry like any other art form ceases to be personal and intimate once you publish it. You put yourself up there in the shape of your work to be shot at and if it attracts the occasional moron that is the price one pays for sharing ones work. One just has to be adult about it and rise above the people who set out to be destructive, though not all criticism is destructive and sometimes people's work is just plain bad.

My self, I prefer to pass over bad work rather than comment on it but it is the perogative of the reader if s/he wants to slate some work s/he's read, after all posting work is an invitation for someone to read it. If one's work is personal and intimate and they want to keep it that way, they shouldn't publish it.

I know it is hard to figure out what is meant with out all the details,
but obviously the correct thread to mention it QP.

I can't fault Mods for vote removal though. the system is flux to spit out duel + votes from IPS and I think it combines votes in some instances it appears to make a 2 and a 3 and make 5, I even thought I saw it make a 4 and 2 and that gave me a five and a one <grin>

I don't have the answers to QP's prose and or anna's cpmplaint but.....

when you sit down to write...do you see numbers and ratings before you create the poem? I personally don't think about the numbers when I write and I admit I been hit harder than most here <grinin> <honestly> and you have to write for the passion, not the numbers, detach from the ratings...if you can't do it mentally do like ....<grin> others and turn the voting off and just for a bit to see how not allowing votes feels <grin> every one is going to find faults in every body elses writes so ignore the comments if your content with the write or turn the comments off <I know that was not your issue>.

Please take a meditation moment and reflect why you write and if it means that much to be rated, I would suggest you entering you 'very good' poetry in contests. I know mine won't fly but then I write for a very different reason than most here <grin> QP ...it will be a great loss if I don't see a bluerains or Quiet Poet poem pop up now and again.

Art~

 

[quietpoet]

wrong point

If one's work is personal and intimate and they want to keep it that way, they shouldn't publish it.

This wasn't the point of my diatribe. In the end, all writing is personal as it reflects the color of the writer's experience. We all want to share and should.

My point is the destructive behaviour of the people on this site who are not constructive in their criticisms and believe themselves to be better than others. Everything starts at a single point and grows from there. To believe that one should be condemned for lack of experience or because they don't like their style or choice of words shows how immature one is. The people who run this site play God, and, in my opinion, should resign so that we can find people with a bit more conscience to take over.

QP

 

[quietpoet]

Hmmmm

when you sit down to write...do you see numbers and ratings before you create the poem?
Art~

Actually, when you go down my list you won't find one "H". I am not concerned with that personally, but you see a list that had over 30 H's on it and now has 4, one has to question the integrity of those in charge. The entire system has to be scrubbed or we will forever be complaining about it.

The answer is simple... Delete the voting altogether and be done with it. Get rid of the "H"'s, the "E"'s because both are totally subjective (AS IS POETRY!!!!!). Get rid of the top 100 list and just keep the threads and comments.

qp

 

[My Erotic Tale]

Actually, when you go down my list you won't find one "H". I am not concerned with that personally, but you see a list that had over 30 H's on it and now has 4, one has to question the integrity of those in charge. The entire system has to be scrubbed or we will forever be complaining about it.

The answer is simple... Delete the voting altogether and be done with it. Get rid of the "H"'s, the "E"'s because both are totally subjective (AS IS POETRY!!!!!). Get rid of the top 100 list and just keep the threads and comments.

qp

I was pulling up an old poem yesterday and I went down my list to the poem I wanted and I thought...where did all my red "H"s go...I figured a couple of <voters> decided to manipulate my poems statis, I never figured it to be Mods or site owners, read the first of this thread and the new number one thread...

was the poem on the top list?.....cause that would almost explain it ...those get hit the most.

I am sorry your upset and I can only relate I know how ya feel and deal with those type poets all the time QP, but I don't have a desire to leave, but to fix the problem. I just read another thread last night of yet another ban together and lets submit a proposal to the site owners and QP I been here long enough to tell ya they are open to suggestions but growing pains are obvious and it can not change over night as it is fixed in the matrix of things <grin> the only way to stop the poetic trolls is to turn off voting for they hit us all ...all the time...

I get it all the time and I recall a few rants I had when I was done the same way <still am> but where is the blame, the voters with malice or the system for being an offered added score based system that they use as a way to scratch your creations like a bad comment from anonamous. Note that anna claims her votes were removed from a persons poem giving them back a 5 after she voted less, I think the mathmatical calculations of the votes is part confusing when mixed with those trying to leave a low vote on a top list poem.

 

[quietpoet]

The problem is at the top

i don't think that any of the mods really care to change anything. I do not trust them and their clique any more than those at other sites. Turn off voting period and those people with the holier than thou attitude will become better residents by default.

You are right about submitting to contests. That is a good way to get recognized if your poetry is good. Those people here that profess to be teachers, professionals, etc... give me a break. It is about as much fiction as those that write about 15 year olds and doing your kids (I hope that is fiction)!

I'm not saying that we don't have good poets here, just that those that advertise it are the most lacking in honor and respect for the artform.

qp

 

[WickedEve]

The moderators are totally jerks for not understanding that some people look at votes for a little bit pride in something they have created. Is it nice playing God with people's feelings? Poetry is personal, intimate. The idiot that votes a 0 or pulls votes because they don't like the content is moronic. The moderators that allow votes to be pulled OFF of poems are hypocritical. Every moderator needs to be removed and replaced.

The moderators have no control at all over voting.
Laurel and Manu are the administrators/owners and in total control of the voting system.

 

[Angeline]

The moderators have no control at all over voting.
Laurel and Manu are the administrators/owners and in total control of the voting system.

quietpoet, let me second that. Moderators have absolutely NOTHING to do with voting. They have no jurisdiction anywhere but the specific forum in which they are assigned to moderate. The only authority they do have is to remove a post or thread from the forum if it is deemed to violate the forum rules (e.g., no spamming, sharing other members' personal information, etc.). Aside from that, their responsibilities are to welcome new members who seem to want to participate in the forum, answer questions and, in the case of this forum, run contests or pursue other activities that further poetry feedback and discussion. Actually anyone on the forum can do any of these things (aside from removing posts/threads). Poetry/story submissions are completely outside moderators' sphere of authority.

Anyone here who has problems with submissions or voting and the way in which these are conducted can certainly voice their opinions, but if they want to suggest changes or vent frustration at the system, the best thing to do is contact Laurel or Manu, the site owners. Whether or not anything comes of it is totally up to them. They're the ones who administer that part of the site. I was a moderator on this forum for over two years and I can assure you, I had no more influence than anyone else here in that regard.

 

[My Erotic Trail]

i don't think that any of the mods really care to change anything. I do not trust them and their clique any more than those at other sites. Turn off voting period and those people with the holier than thou attitude will become better residents by default.

You are right about submitting to contests. That is a good way to get recognized if your poetry is good. Those people here that profess to be teachers, professionals, etc... give me a break. It is about as much fiction as those that write about 15 year olds and doing your kids (I hope that is fiction)!

I'm not saying that we don't have good poets here, just that those that advertise it are the most lacking in honor and respect for the artform.

qp

I am trying to recall how they do it but you can ask to have your poems sweeped and most of the time any faulty voting will be removed and the rating restored, I can only suggest pm laurel with the problem your having and ask to have it looked at cause 7 votes removed seems like a lot for poems...I see it alot with stories but that usually ups the rating.

okay she said go to the poem in question and by the voting ...just above it is this..

"- Report problems with this story, click here."

report the problem...

 

[Maria2394]

to vote or not to vote, is that the question? or is it hurt feelings. I think everyone here has gone through the thing, "where have my H's gone?" I know I did. Took it personally, and I have had votes erased, which was the point of my own contention when I left LIt for a while, even before my computer died. It just did something to me, made me feel small and unimportant because I voted a 4 on a poem that had all 5's, it was on the toplist, but I didnt know that because I wasnt reading poems from the toplist, I was going down the line of new poems reading them. Anyway, the person got all whiney, certain that I gave them a 4 ONLY because I was jealous...wrong....and then, guess what? I got zapped with ones and twos. Oh well...eventually the system took them away too and I realized, voting is arbitrary and meaningless. I turned on voting on my new poem just to get FB because it seems more FB is left when the reader is allowed to vote as well...

Screw the toplist. I have had poems there, it means very little because of the way that votes can be manipulated, whether by the anti-fraud system OR by other poets/writes/readers... If you let it get to you, it will make you so unhappy, and it means nothing!!! theres a thread, I think Tara started it, Im not sure, but this voting thing goes in cycles and causes nothing but misery if you allow it!! Just write and have fun, pay no mind to the little Red H's, if they matter to someone so much, that means they are probably spending more time obsessing over scores than actually writing.

Curiouswife, I dont think the mods would change the votes even if they could. I have seen the same thing happen to them. Its the system, something. Just write and have fun, thats what matters!!

 

[Angeline]

to vote or not to vote, is that the question? or is it hurt feelings. I think everyone here has gone through the thing, "where have my H's gone?" I know I did. Took it personally, and I have had votes erased, which was the point of my own contention when I left LIt for a while, even before my computer died. It just did something to me, made me feel small and unimportant because I voted a 4 on a poem that had all 5's, it was on the toplist, but I didnt know that because I wasnt reading poems from the toplist, I was going down the line of new poems reading them. Anyway, the person got all whiney, certain that I gave them a 4 ONLY because I was jealous...wrong....and then, guess what? I got zapped with ones and twos. Oh well...eventually the system took them away too and I realized, voting is arbitrary and meaningless. I turned on voting on my new poem just to get FB because it seems more FB is left when the reader is allowed to vote as well...

Screw the toplist. I have had poems there, it means very little because of the way that votes can be manipulated, whether by the anti-fraud system OR by other poets/writes/readers... If you let it get to you, it will make you so unhappy, and it means nothing!!! theres a thread, I think Tara started it, Im not sure, but this voting thing goes in cycles and causes nothing but misery if you allow it!! Just write and have fun, pay no mind to the little Red H's, if they matter to someone so much, that means they are probably spending more time obsessing over scores than actually writing.

Curiouswife, I dont think the mods would change the votes even if they could. I have seen the same thing happen to them. Its the system, something. Just write and have fun, thats what matters!!

Yes. I have been 1-bombed. I have been told all kinds of ugly things about my poems. Some of my poems have been number one on the top list and some have never gotten a single vote or comment.

I don't care.

The reason I come here and write is because I am inspired by the other writers here. They give my ideas, they teach me things, they act as a muse for me. This place allows me to be in a community of writers who, like myself, love poetry. What votes or ratings on a list have to do with that, I don't know. The focus on votes here confounds me and it always has. It's not a beauty contest. Don't worry about why people vote the way they do on your poems because much of the time it doesn't even have anything to do with you or the quality of your poetry.

Honestly, I wish they'd toss the whole voting system out. In the years I've been here it has done nothing but generate ill will among people who should be helping each other.

 

[bogusbrig]

The reason I come here and write is because I am inspired by the other writers here.

I think this is the only worthwhile reason for being here or on any other poetry forum.

Though I have to admit to being overloaded with testosterone and reading a poem I admire brings the competitor out in me and has me wanting to write a better poem. Which I know is totally pointless as I inevitably write differently and it's like comparing apples and oranges but I'm a small and petty man and such nonsense is important to me.

 

[annaswirls]

I think this is the only worthwhile reason for being here or on any other poetry forum.

Though I have to admit to being overloaded with testosterone and reading a poem I admire brings the competitor out in me and has me wanting to write a better poem. Which I know is totally pointless as I inevitably write differently and it's like comparing apples and oranges but I'm a small and petty man and such nonsense is important to me.

You are not a small and petty man, you are honest
If the voting system were more "accurate" then the whole competitive nature that human beings are born with-- the desire to get better-- the desire to grow, to belong-- would make more sense. Poetry is subjective. I agree with that to a certain extent. What qualifies as "good" poetry is subjective, but what qualifies as awful poetry is easier to pick out. I mean, come on.

Just some notes to other posts:

No one writes FOR votes, but they are there anyway.

I do not go to the top list with the intention of "low vote" poems. I happened to peruse it and vote. People will believe what they want of me -- but I know the truth, and yet, when faced with the truth, certain individuals cease to LET GO OF THE LIES and perpetuate them.


The computer does not get "confused" because some people vote three days after a poem is submitted.

 

[Maria2394]

Yes. I have been 1-bombed. I have been told all kinds of ugly things about my poems. Some of my poems have been number one on the top list and some have never gotten a single vote or comment.

I don't care.

The reason I come here and write is because I am inspired by the other writers here. They give my ideas, they teach me things, they act as a muse for me. This place allows me to be in a community of writers who, like myself, love poetry. What votes or ratings on a list have to do with that, I don't know. The focus on votes here confounds me and it always has. It's not a beauty contest. Don't worry about why people vote the way they do on your poems because much of the time it doesn't even have anything to do with you or the quality of your poetry.

Honestly, I wish they'd toss the whole voting system out. In the years I've been here it has done nothing but generate ill will among people who should be helping each other.

angeline,
thats why I come here too!! I enjoy the people here, have learned so very much from you and so many others. and have just learned to not let anything get to me that distracts from what I come here to do. I shouldnt even be back on a thread like this!!!

this place is my muse also, a very important one . ( see, Im a shutin who never sees sunlighhht and you guys are the only refuge i have in my life ) I love ya'll. Please dont let the stupid vote thing throw us all in turmoil again. I just dont think my could take it.


maria

 

[Angeline]

You are not a small and petty man, you are honest
If the voting system were more "accurate" then the whole competitive nature that human beings are born with-- the desire to get better-- the desire to grow, to belong-- would make more sense. Poetry is subjective. I agree with that to a certain extent. What qualifies as "good" poetry is subjective, but what qualifies as awful poetry is easier to pick out. I mean, come on.

Just some notes to other posts:

No one writes FOR votes, but they are there anyway.

I do not go to the top list with the intention of "low vote" poems. I happened to peruse it and vote. People will believe what they want of me -- but I know the truth, and yet, when faced with the truth, certain individuals cease to LET GO OF THE LIES and perpetuate them.


The computer does not get "confused" because some people vote three days after a poem is submitted.

I agree, Anna. Bogusbrig, that hairy poet, is being honest and what's wrong with feeling competative, anyway? Nothing, in my opinion, if it leads to one's growth as a writer. I think some of the best poems I've read here, certainly some of the best things I feel I've written, have come out of challenges and contests where it's not so much that I want to win, but that I want to write equal to the quality of the other poems I know these games will produce. I find that fun: it's healthy competition. What's unhealthy is when people start thinking that if so-and-so got more 5s than they did or whoziwhatsit's poem was on the top list and theirs wasn't, it means they're no good as a person or a poet. That's just nonsense to me.

I know you understand that (well maybe, lol, I think I sorta rambled there for a minute), but some people here don't and that's what confounds me. All these clique accusations and alts who are trying to "get" the "lesser" writers. I don't think that way. I don't have time to be that cagey and manipulative. I'm just writing poems for god's sake.

Who of us low-balls a poem because we want to "get" the writer? I never have. Never. And if I ever voted more than once on a poem, which I'm sure I have, I did it by accident.

And anyone who thinks Anna or Pat Carrington or Eve or whoever does that is um delusional. These are people who just love poetry, and if they critique it is because they're trying to help. So there! And if you don't want votes or feedback because you ARE delusional and you are worried about people who are out to get you then turn the shit off and Poof--the problem is gone.

We should all just write poems. What a novel idea.

 

[Angeline]

angeline,
thats why I come here too!! I enjoy the people here, have learned so very much from you and so many others. and have just learned to not let anything get to me that distracts from what I come here to do. I shouldnt even be back on a thread like this!!!

this place is my muse also, a very important one . ( see, Im a shutin who never sees sunlighhht and you guys are the only refuge i have in my life ) I love ya'll. Please dont let the stupid vote thing throw us all in turmoil again. I just dont think my could take it.


maria

LOL! I can't believe I'm ranting about this crap again either.

I love you, too, sis and I'm so glad you're back because I learn from you, too. And know what? Now I'm gonna go look at picture of ee when he was a little boy that his dad just sent us and then I'm gonna eat spaghetti and meatballs and I DON'T CARE ABOUT VOTES!

 

[WickedEve]

LOL! I can't believe I'm ranting about this crap again either.

I love you, too, sis and I'm so glad you're back because I learn from you, too. And know what? Now I'm gonna go look at picture of ee when he was a little boy that his dad just sent us and then I'm gonna eat spaghetti and meatballs and I DON'T CARE ABOUT VOTES!

I can't believe you're ranting again.

 

[quietpoet]

This is the issue exactly

Tell me,

If everyone thinks the voting system sucks, and it does, why hasn't anyone eliminated it? if the whole reason you, Angeline, are here is for the camaraderie and sharing of ideas (a noble purpose), and you were a Mod for a while, why didn't you try to eliminate the problem? This ugly smell is never going to go away with a flawed system in place. This should not be a place of competition, but by having voting on poems, that is exactly what is created. Lauren and Manu could give two shits about faulty systems. This is a "for profit" site. Isn't that what America is all about now?

QP

LOL! I can't believe I'm ranting about this crap again either.

I love you, too, sis and I'm so glad you're back because I learn from you, too. And know what? Now I'm gonna go look at picture of ee when he was a little boy that his dad just sent us and then I'm gonna eat spaghetti and meatballs and I DON'T CARE ABOUT VOTES!

 

[annaswirls]

I think you are seriously over-estimating the Moderator's powers.

Tell me,

If everyone thinks the voting system sucks, and it does, why hasn't anyone eliminated it? if the whole reason you, Angeline, are here is for the camaraderie and sharing of ideas (a noble purpose), and you were a Mod for a while, why didn't you try to eliminate the problem? This ugly smell is never going to go away with a flawed system in place. This should not be a place of competition, but by having voting on poems, that is exactly what is created. Lauren and Manu could give two shits about faulty systems. This is a "for profit" site. Isn't that what America is all about now?

QP

 

[annaswirls]

I agree, Anna. Bogusbrig, that hairy poet, is being honest and what's wrong with feeling competative, anyway? Nothing, in my opinion, if it leads to one's growth as a writer. I think some of the best poems I've read here, certainly some of the best things I feel I've written, have come out of challenges and contests where it's not so much that I want to win, but that I want to write equal to the quality of the other poems I know these games will produce. I find that fun: it's healthy competition. What's unhealthy is when people start thinking that if so-and-so got more 5s than they did or whoziwhatsit's poem was on the top list and theirs wasn't, it means they're no good as a person or a poet. That's just nonsense to me.

I know you understand that (well maybe, lol, I think I sorta rambled there for a minute), but some people here don't and that's what confounds me. All these clique accusations and alts who are trying to "get" the "lesser" writers. I don't think that way. I don't have time to be that cagey and manipulative. I'm just writing poems for god's sake.

Who of us low-balls a poem because we want to "get" the writer? I never have. Never. And if I ever voted more than once on a poem, which I'm sure I have, I did it by accident.

And anyone who thinks Anna or Pat Carrington or Eve or whoever does that is um delusional. These are people who just love poetry, and if they critique it is because they're trying to help. So there! And if you don't want votes or feedback because you ARE delusional and you are worried about people who are out to get you then turn the shit off and Poof--the problem is gone.

We should all just write poems. What a novel idea.

I do understand and thank you for that last paragraph.

I don't care about votes either, well, you know, just when they disappear. My brain has this thing with object permanence. eh hem.

I just know people have whined and complained about getting votes below a 5. I figured I would show that there are two sides to everything-- balance <Zen> that sometimes the 4's and 3's disappear too..... when they are not given illegally, immorally, unethically or any of that. That sometimes people might not think your poem is perfect and they are not afraid to give it a vote that is less than perfect.

t'is all.

You know, wanted to give a target for all of the people who were angry about the votes lower than a 5. I even turned my votes back on so anyone who wanted to can vote could.

I spent an hour editing my concrete poem.

Maybe I will go write one too, good suggestion.

Peace, out,

Anna