Necrophilia

[NemoAlia]

So, I've participated in a couple of necrophilia-style fantasy scenes. And the way we've played it, the "deadness" of the bottom trips the Top's "I'm taking/sullying/desecrating something that forbidden to me" switch big time. Which I consider kink, although not traditional Domination.

In my mind, Domination involves a self-respect that can't really be present for the necrophilia fantasy to hit the Top In Question the way it does. He describes it as "taking something that he doesn't deserve." Like in the very sleaziest of the Business Bimbo Gets Gang-Raped by Hobo and Friends stories.

 

[leeroy jenkins]

Welcome Ladyblaze, nice to see another new person join us in posting. I think this is either something your in favor of or you hate the hell out of.

*Taps his foot while waiting for Madam Rebecca to jump into the fray again*

 

[@}-}rebecca----]

Yes well I am seriously considering which pictures of cadavers amoungst other things I may post here.....................this Thread is contemptous in my eyes and thats me putting it very generously ...........takes a deep breath and goes .....for now.

 

[Kajira Callista]

Yes well I am seriously considering which pictures of cadavers amoungst other things I may post here.....................this Thread is contemptous in my eyes and thats me putting it very generously ...........takes a deep breath and goes .....for now.

Are you saying you do not like this thread?

 

[cati]

This may sound a bit hypocritical after my more "seemingly liberal minded" posts.

Wikipaedia has spelled it out perfectly. If you look at the list of paraphilias, consider about how many of them effect "many" BDSMers in some form or fashion. Exhibitionism, voyeurism, transvestitism, sado/masochism... right on through to some of the more deviant practices. Just as we have our hard limits regarding pain, we have hard limits regarding the more extreme "paraphilias".

Thank goodness we have solid morals and values regarding these more deviant behaviours.

A thought came to me a couple of days ago.
What if...lets say Pamela Anderson was lying in state. A delicious sex symbol in life, would she be any less sexy dead?
How many perverts, if given the chance to privacy would touch her body or fondle her in some way if they knew they wouldn't be caught? How far would they go?

Not forgetting that the force behind a "paraphilia" is that the act must be sexually arousing to the individual.

 

[rosco rathbone]

.lets say Pamela Anderson was lying in state. A delicious sex symbol in life, would she be any less sexy dead?
How many perverts, if given the chance to privacy would touch her body or fondle her in some way if they knew they wouldn't be caught? How far would they go?

hahahaha "lying in state", like the pope...with some perverts or maybe pervy nightshift janitors creeping around....

That's absurd, hilarious, and actually kind of hot.

 

[cati]

Absurd you say....hmmph..of course its absurd !

Ok not lying in state. Would lying dead in her coffin be better.
I spose state is for statesmen.... lying in "a state of rigormortis".

 

[alice_underneath]

I find the whole concept of necrophilia sick beyond words.

If i met a person who showed even the slightest interest in it I would walk away quickly, knowing that that individual was seriously "sick."

Thank goodness we have solid morals and values regarding these more deviant behaviours.

If you substitute the word 'homosexuality' for 'necrophilia', I have heard these exact comments - over and over again - in debates on such topics as homosexual marriage, and whether or not homosexuality should be described as 'moral behavior' in sex ed in the public schools.

Once issues of consent and health/safety have been dealt with, what this usually boils down to is moral judgment based on one of two things.

1) A gross-out factor. If you, personally, find the behavior disgusting - REALLY, REALLY DISGUSTING - then there must be something wrong with it.

2) Religion. Interpretation of the Bible/Torah/Koran/whatever tells you it's wrong..... so it is.

I do not feel that I have the right to criticize the moral judgment of anyone (as applied on a personal basis).

But I do think the comparisons in language are worth noting, and may perhaps provide some food for thought.

Alice

 

[alice_underneath]

I know I am likely to get flamed for this question ......takes a deep breath......have any of you posting above EVER spent time , close time with someone you love ( or a 'body') that has died ? I don't want answers of applied science , or you walked past a relative in a coffin so you have seen it , I mean spending real time , real close (ability to feel, hear ) to someone who has died ?
I have more to add to this but I am going to wait to read replies first.

@}-}rebecca----

When my elderly neighbor across the street died, I heard the ambulance arrive and walked into the house with the paramedics.

We walked into the bedroom and saw the man (clearly dead) lying on the bed. His wife was lying next to him. She had draped one of his arms around her body, and was holding it in place with one of her own.

With her other arm, she was stroking his hair. As we paused in the doorway, we saw her alternating between kissing his cheek and whispering in his ear.

In every possible sense of the phrase except penetration, this woman was making love to her husband. There is simply no other way to describe what she was doing.

It was one of the most beautiful sights I have ever seen.

Why? Because human emotion is beautiful. The joy of their years together.... the pain of her grief.... the love that bound them together.... the intimacy of her touch.

All of these emotions were visible in her face and her actions. The sight really was exquisite.

Having said all of that......

As I understand the meaning of the word, I do not think that counts as necrophilia.

The dictionary definition of necrophilia is:

1. Obsessive fascination with death and corpses.
2. Erotic attraction to or sexual contact with corpses.

Neither of those apply to my neighbor. Nor does this:

"Figuratively, the term "necrophilia" describes an inordinate desire to control another person, usually in the context of a romantic or interpersonal relationship; the accusation is that the person is so interpersonally controlling as to be better-suited to relationships with nonresponsive people."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Necrophilia

 

[@}-}rebecca----]

Leaving this Thread in entirety I don't dance with fools.

Hora novissima, tempora pessima sunt — vigilemus.
Ecce minaciter imminet arbiter ille supremus.
Imminet imminet ut mala terminet, æqua coronet,
Recta remuneret, anxia liberet, æthera donet.

 

[Kajira Callista]

OH....church today and i wasnt told? *sigh*

 

[NemoAlia]

How many perverts, if given the chance to privacy would touch her body or fondle her in some way if they knew they wouldn't be caught? How far would they go?

Yep, exactly. Because they couldn't have her if she were alive... she wouldn't look at them, wouldn't speak to them, and certainly wouldn't fuck 'em. But dead? She doesn't have a choice. And it's there that we find the crux of most necrophilic fantasies, I would say.

...although it's not really in line with this thread's initial premise of the necrophilia being the submissive's fantasy...

 

[cati]

My Dad passed away a week ago today. Discussing the death of a loved one or anyone elses relative in this thread is assinine.

 

[cati]

If you substitute the word 'homosexuality' for 'necrophilia', I have heard these exact comments - over and over again - in debates on such topics as homosexual marriage, and whether or not homosexuality should be described as 'moral behavior' in sex ed in the public schools.


While I understand the point you are trying to make Alice, there really is no comparing the two.
If I could post what I'm really feeling at this moment after reading your philisophical BS...yet again.

 

[Kajira Callista]

My Dad passed away a week ago today. Discussing the death of a loved one or anyone elses relative in this thread is assinine.

Sorry for your loss Maybe instead of calling people assinine you should just not come to this thread at such a sad time in your life. *hug*

 

[cati]

Excuse me Kallista, I think it's my decision whether or not I choose to post in a thread at this time.
Read my post again.... you can see that I haven't called anyone an ass... it was the discussion that was assinine. On second thought if the shoe fits....

 

[Etoile]

Excuse me Kallista, I think it's my decision whether or not I choose to post in a thread at this time.
Read my post again.... you can see that I haven't called anyone an ass... it was the discussion that was assinine. On second thought if the shoe fits....

I really only got the impression that KC was trying to be thoughtful and helpful. You're absolutely right, it's up to you what threads you participate in at this or any time. Not that KC needs me to stick up for her, but I really thought she was just trying to be caring. Sometimes backing away from certain areas is the thing to do, but sometimes throwing yourself into them is better. Everybody is different; I really think KC meant well.

I too am sorry for your loss.

 

[O'Mac]

Alice, I understand your point of view, but I don't see how anyone can make a serious comparision between homosexuality and necrophilia.

Homosexuality is simply a person's sexual orientation and the physical activities with regards to it are assumed to be of an ongoing consensual nature. If not consensual, then there is a real legal problem going on.

With necrophilia, there is no ongoing consent. Furthermore, as someone had pointed out earlier, while a homosexual can find other homosexuals to have consensual relations with, a necrophiliac needs a dead body. Dead bodies are not particularly easy to come across, but it doesn't take much for a living body to become a dead one.

 

[FurryFury]

My Dad passed away a week ago today. Discussing the death of a loved one or anyone elses relative in this thread is assinine.

I'm sorry to hear about your Dad, Cati.

I have talked about my Dad's death in this thread. I'm not sorry that I have but each to their own.

Fury

 

[Kajira Callista]

Excuse me Kallista, I think it's my decision whether or not I choose to post in a thread at this time.
Read my post again.... you can see that I haven't called anyone an ass... it was the discussion that was assinine. On second thought if the shoe fits....

go spew your crap somplace else and get off my back. I was trying to be nice to you...but be sure that wont happen again

 

[Kajira Callista]

I really only got the impression that KC was trying to be thoughtful and helpful. You're absolutely right, it's up to you what threads you participate in at this or any time. Not that KC needs me to stick up for her, but I really thought she was just trying to be caring. Sometimes backing away from certain areas is the thing to do, but sometimes throwing yourself into them is better. Everybody is different; I really think KC meant well.

I too am sorry for your loss.

Thank you Etoile

 

[catalina_francisco]

"and why is this bdsm"??

Hmm, I can see it being part of the lifestyle, or more to the point, particular individual D/s relationships, easily...and that is with or without the love factor. The most obvious one being in the case of a female submissive being the deceased... is it that big a stretch to see how this can be a final act of control and Dominance? If male Dominant is the deceased, and female submissve remains, it could simply be seen as a final act of devotion, service, or even obedience. For many, the D/s does not end with death. The imagination is a wonderful thing, especially when coupled with a deviot nature and a whole lotta love.

Catalina

 

[catalina_francisco]

If you substitute the word 'homosexuality' for 'necrophilia', I have heard these exact comments - over and over again - in debates on such topics as homosexual marriage, and whether or not homosexuality should be described as 'moral behavior' in sex ed in the public schools.

Once issues of consent and health/safety have been dealt with, what this usually boils down to is moral judgment based on one of two things.

1) A gross-out factor. If you, personally, find the behavior disgusting - REALLY, REALLY DISGUSTING - then there must be something wrong with it.

2) Religion. Interpretation of the Bible/Torah/Koran/whatever tells you it's wrong..... so it is.

I do not feel that I have the right to criticize the moral judgment of anyone (as applied on a personal basis).

But I do think the comparisons in language are worth noting, and may perhaps provide some food for thought.

Alice

I can see what you are saying here and have to agree. More often than not such comments come from fear, learned behaviour, cultural pressures, and perhaps never thinking about the particular subject from a variety of angles. Even before I became involved in D/s, I could imagine how it would feel to lose someone you loved deeply and were loved by, and how it might extend to wanting to spend hours with that person's body (something that seems to freak many people out...when it became known I had visited and spent time alone with my father's body, many people were shocked and went as far as to say how they could never contemplate doing something like that...for me it was something I had to do for my own peace of mind, and it was the catalyst I needed), and in the case of a lover how that might extend to wanting to share a last intimacy. IMO it can include a variety of positive emotions, and in some ways even be ritualistic.

I always felt it was a strange phenomenon we institute in our contempory society when someone dies, we hand them over as quickly as possible to authorities once they have died, as if they are no longer useful, like discarded rubbish or toxic waste...that is how it sometimes appears to me in the way our authorities require this, and also feel it strange or unhealthy if you are not in a hurry to give up possession of the body of a loved one so they can 'get on with their job'. It is cold, it is abusive, and it is impersonal IMHO...hands on care and protection does not end with death for me. I remember a Jewish lecturer I had at university explaining one day to the class how he was part of a tradition whereby the deceased were not handed over to an impersonal funeral home, instead being prepared completely by members of the family and community as a final act of love and care. It touched me and made me realise my own thoughts were not sick or so strange, just I was born into the wrong culture or time whereby it was seen as more acceptable to hand over the body of one you love to someone who had never known them and to whom they were just a job to complete.

Catalina

 

[John Doe]

if a person writes it in they,re will
that they want a good fuck in the afterlife
should it be legal

Are you a retard?

 

[John Doe]

If you substitute the word 'homosexuality' for 'necrophilia', I have heard these exact comments - over and over again - in debates on such topics as homosexual marriage, and whether or not homosexuality should be described as 'moral behavior' in sex ed in the public schools.

Once issues of consent and health/safety have been dealt with, what this usually boils down to is moral judgment based on one of two things.

1) A gross-out factor. If you, personally, find the behavior disgusting - REALLY, REALLY DISGUSTING - then there must be something wrong with it.

2) Religion. Interpretation of the Bible/Torah/Koran/whatever tells you it's wrong..... so it is.

I do not feel that I have the right to criticize the moral judgment of anyone (as applied on a personal basis).

But I do think the comparisons in language are worth noting, and may perhaps provide some food for thought.

Alice

Bullshit.

First of all, what do you mean, once the consent and health/safety issues are dealt with? Those are the main concerns. You can't just explain them away and then go on to attack dissenters based on some unrealistic basis that we can't judge other people's morality. If that's the case, then we should do away with laws entirely.

Secondly, comparing necrophilia and homosexuality is like comparing bestiality to a shoe fetish. It's apples and oranges. For one thing, most homosexuals are well-adjusted, contributing members of society and I think most of them would also be offended to see you compare thier preference/orientation to something as reprehensible as corpse fucking.

Numerous studies have shown that people who experiment with sexually deviant behavior such as bestiality and necrophilia early in life are far more likely than anyone else to gop on to be child molestors/rapists, the obvious connection being -- you guessed it -- consent. Much in the same way that people who as children were known to harm or kill animals frequently escalated to beating or murdering humans.

And as far as the health/safety issue is concerned, well dead bodies start to get ripe after a while and that smell isn't just because they haven't showered.

To your point number 1, if the "gross-out factor" as you so eloquently and scientifically put it only affected a few people I might agree with you, but mostly people think necrophilia is gross, and like everything else in society, the majority rules. Think about it for a minute. They are fucking dead bodies. Corpses. Carcasses. Those who have passed on. That's just fucking gross, not only because they're dead, but also because they can't consent. It's reminiscent of rape, much like bestiality or child molestation. All three of which are what is known in the psychological vernacular as coercive paraphilias, and for good reason. I just don't see how anyone could not at least grimace a little when they think about people doing that, and I think anyone who is willing to tolerate this kind of behavior really isn't aware of the facts behind it. It's not morally sick to me so much as psychologically sick.

Regarding the religious aspect, most ancient religious taboos stem from a practical need, like the Jewish/Muslim prohibition against pork (or more generally in Judaism "cloven-hooved" animals) to avoid trichinosis, the difference being that the taboo against necrophilia is still scientifically useful since we're not yet in the habit of sterilizing our remains, except perhaps for cremation.

And let's face it, fucking a pile of dust just isn't as much fun as it sounds.