New to BDSM

[ecstaticsub]

I'm not sure if I agree or not. I'm thinking about it, and I can understand where you're coming from, for sure. But what I'm thinking is that if someone is 24/7, that means they are committed 24/7. At no time do they get to take a break and say "hey, I don't like this anymore, let's do something else" - while there can be established limits, being 24/7 means it's up to the dominant partner to follow them. If they change their mind, and decide to do something a little wacky, does the submissive partner get to stop and say "hey that wasn't what we agreed on" or do they continue their 24/7 submission and follow whatever the dominant wants them to do?

I guess what I mean is that I don't see where safewords fit into a 24/7 relationship. And if there are no safewords, it's effectively TPE...the dominant is always in control of everything. I'm open to discussion on the matter though, because it has me kind of confused and pondering.

I am in a LDR that I consider 24/7. The only pre-negotiated terms of our relationship were that are families came first, we had to respect that each other had spouses and children.

The rules he has made for me to follow apply 24/7, not just while I am visiting him, or on the phone with him, or when I have the webcam on. He can call me anytime day or night. He can order me to do anything at anytime including jump on a plane and come to him. He has contol over all aspects of my sex life, including the sex I have with my husband. We have safewords, but I have never used one.

The thing is that I spent months of 4-6 hour/day on the phone with him getting to know each other. I knew that he valued sex between a husband and wife so I knew before becoming his submissive that he would never prohibit that. True, he could demand that I do xyz with my husband but I know him and I know he wouldn't see a reason to do it.

Same with everything else. I know he wouldn't demand me to leave my job to go have pphone sex with him in my car, or leave my children unattended to do something for him. It is common sense D/s, he respects my day to day life. He can get what he wants without being unreasonable or overly selfish.

There are many times when what he asks is very difficult and may conflict with something my husband wants but then it is my job to figure out a way to give Daddy what he wants and keep my husband happy, too. Not easy, but it is something I have learned to do over the past three years.

I don't consider myself a slave or in a TPE because I don't personally thnk that is possible in a long standing LDR.

But my relationship is still 24/7 because his control is 24/7 and is never turned off.

 

[intothewoods]

I'm not sure if I agree or not. I'm thinking about it, and I can understand where you're coming from, for sure. But what I'm thinking is that if someone is 24/7, that means they are committed 24/7. At no time do they get to take a break and say "hey, I don't like this anymore, let's do something else" - while there can be established limits, being 24/7 means it's up to the dominant partner to follow them. If they change their mind, and decide to do something a little wacky, does the submissive partner get to stop and say "hey that wasn't what we agreed on" or do they continue their 24/7 submission and follow whatever the dominant wants them to do?

I guess what I mean is that I don't see where safewords fit into a 24/7 relationship. And if there are no safewords, it's effectively TPE...the dominant is always in control of everything. I'm open to discussion on the matter though, because it has me kind of confused and pondering.

I know what you mean, because after you've been in the relationship for some time, the safewords and limits are sort of besides the point. No one asks anymore.

TPE = slavery right? I think that sort of clarifies it for me. I'm not my PYL's property. That doesn't fit for me. I feel like we're a team, but he leads the team. Sometimes the team figures something out together, sometimes I've been given the authority to get something done because he doesn't care how it's accomplished or he wants my judgment on something, and sometimes he decides or exercises veto power. He's the only one with veto power, but he doesn't exercise it all the time. Mostly the vocabulary of slavery doesn't fit for me. I'm not his property. I dunno, it gets a little annoyingly existential at some point for me. It just works.

 

[intothewoods]

I am in a LDR that I consider 24/7. The only pre-negotiated terms of our relationship were that are families came first, we had to respect that each other had spouses and children.

The rules he has made for me to follow apply 24/7, not just while I am visiting him, or on the phone with him, or when I have the webcam on. He can call me anytime day or night. He can order me to do anything at anytime including jump on a plane and come to him. He has contol over all aspects of my sex life, including the sex I have with my husband. We have safewords, but I have never used one.

The thing is that I spent months of 4-6 hour/day on the phone with him getting to know each other. I knew that he valued sex between a husband and wife so I knew before becoming his submissive that he would never prohibit that. True, he could demand that I do xyz with my husband but I know him and I know he wouldn't see a reason to do it.

Same with everything else. I know he wouldn't demand me to leave my job to go have pphone sex with him in my car, or leave my children unattended to do something for him. It is common sense D/s, he respects my day to day life. He can get what he wants without being unreasonable or overly selfish.

There are many times when what he asks is very difficult and may conflict with something my husband wants but then it is my job to figure out a way to give Daddy what he wants and keep my husband happy, too. Not easy, but it is something I have learned to do over the past three years.

I don't consider myself a slave or in a TPE because I don't personally thnk that is possible in a long standing LDR.

But my relationship is still 24/7 because his control is 24/7 and is never turned off.

I can relate to some of this, and was going to add that he does not come first. My kid does. The reality is that he would never dream of doing this, but the point is that if insanity happened and he asked me to do something that would do damage to my role as a mother, I'd say no, and we wouldn't be together. I have the right to walk away. Now, is this going to happen? Hell no. It's so totally not in him to want that. Common sense D/s sounds about right to me. But we are also so totally a team. I mean, he can always say no, and I would listen, but team with leader just makes sense to me.

 

[Etoile]

*reading; still pondering*

 

[ecstaticsub]

A volatile warning can be worthwhile in that it shocks someone into realizing that maybe they havent fully thought this through or communicated expectations enough...

most of the time though coming off so harshly only seems to ellicit a contraty emotional response, and the would be beneficiary of your good intentions doesnt hear you at all.

aside from that... well i've been accused of being narrow minded myself rescently, so who am i to point fingers.

it seems to me though that if the language and terms of so many relationships were so easily set in stone by a handful of labels (in this case 24/7, TPE, M/s ect.), we'd all have a much much easier time of finding the right special someone...

unfortunately people are more like puzzle pieces than nuts & bolts.

I would say it is fortunate that people are more like puzzle pieces. Puzzles are more interesting and far more beautiful than nuts and bolts.

 

[Homburg]

I would say it is fortunate that people are more like puzzle pieces. Puzzles are more interesting and far more beautiful than nuts and bolts.

I have found great beauty in thing smachined before the current era of CNC machining, back when it was a fine art to turn a screw. You can see smal flourishes and the caring touch of a time-worn hand that truly wishes to produce something functional and fine.

That said, I'm with you on 24/7 not being automatically equivalent to TPE.

Etoile, why do you see safewords and 24/7 as incompatible? I mean, sure, I'm not a safeword kind of guy, but I don't see those as mutually exclusive. While a submissive may serve me 24/7, there's no intrinsic reason why she cannot have a safeword. Safewords are left behind for multiple reasons aside from 24/7 service.

 

[intothewoods]

refering back to the bit about sub-frenzy; i've heard the term thrown around before, but i've never heard it explained well.

Thank you.

While i dont wholly reject the idea, i dont subscribe to it, if only because i prefer to own my poor judgement, and i tend to expect the same in others.

Ooh, I love that you said that. I mean, I think sub-frenzy is real, but I do have a thing about special bdsm terms for ordinary aspects of a relationship or just plain life.

 

[JMohegan]

Ooh, I love that you said that. I mean, I think sub-frenzy is real, but I do have a thing about special bdsm terms for ordinary aspects of a relationship or just plain life.

I have a "thing" about terms implying that submissives are more prone to irrational, flighty, or self-destructive behavior than anyone else.

"Sub-frenzy." Ugh. It's nonsense, and insulting.

But I've been down this road before.

 

[intothewoods]

I have a "thing" about terms implying that submissives are more prone to irrational, flighty, or self-destructive behavior than anyone else.

"Sub-frenzy." Ugh. It's nonsense, and insulting.

But I've been down this road before.

Hmmm. Well, I seem to keep doing this, but I thought sub-frenzy referred to someone who has recently discovered kink, and is running around screwing/playing with/whatever with everyone and anyone without giving it any thought, thereby playing with unsavory characters, or making other unwise decisions. Not just a needy, clingy endorphin junkie, in the context of a relationship.

Your point stands though. Doms are just as capable of acting like jackasses as are submissives. I am happy to concede this point.

 

[Homburg]

Hmmm. Well, I seem to keep doing this, but I thought sub-frenzy referred to someone who has recently discovered kink, and is running around screwing/playing with/whatever with everyone and anyone without giving it any thought, thereby playing with unsavory characters, or making other unwise decisions. Not just a needy, clingy endorphin junkie, in the context of a relationship.

This is the definition of "sub frenzy" that I am used to, not some weird behavioural shift. Just that "Holy shit, there are other people that want this too?!?" thing, like you said.

 

[intothewoods]

Sighhh, I miss neon! Clicky.

Yeah, it's been a while since I thought about or talked about sub frenzy, clearly. The few times I have heard it used in my local group, it was used to describe a submissive woman, and in the context of playing with everyone and anyone, including less respectable players.

In that context, the underlying assumption is not that women are weak and helpless creatures who need to be protected. It's just that women can just have their pick of sexual and play partners when they first enter the local scene, and so they happen to exhibit the frenzy thing more often. It's the same for D-women, but there are less of them. Men, in general, whether D or s, are looked at with suspicion, simply because so many creepy without boundaries types show up. You have to prove yourself if you're a guy. Fair? Nope. But it's the reality.

Anyhoo.

 

[BiBunny]

Men are just as prone to it as women. Maybe I'm biased, since I pretty much talk to them all day, every day, but there you go. The only difference is, people assume that a woman isn't going to hurt a man the way a man could hurt a woman. Dumb assumption, I know, but the gender bias stands.

Men are just as irrational, clingy, needy, and annoying as women, if not more so.

 

[JMohegan]

Hmmm. Well, I seem to keep doing this, but I thought sub-frenzy referred to someone who has recently discovered kink, and is running around screwing/playing with/whatever with everyone and anyone without giving it any thought, thereby playing with unsavory characters, or making other unwise decisions. Not just a needy, clingy endorphin junkie, in the context of a relationship.

Your point stands though. Doms are just as capable of acting like jackasses as are submissives. I am happy to concede this point.

Yes! Regardless of definition, that's exactly my point. (And thank you for conceding. )

 

[subwannabe]

Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't really agree with the 24/7 definition. I think there is a difference between a 24/7 dom/sub relationship and an abusive controlling relationship. To me being a sub 24/7 means always being a sub and never being anything but a sub, DURING THE TIMES AVAILABLE FOR SUCH A RELATIONSHIP. This means if the sub has a job the dom is not allowed to interfere with the job, the sub is allowed to have friends and even have time to themselves and not be controlled to the point where the sub is not allowed to have friends, go out, go to work, go to school, raise children, eat meals, etc. It just means when the time is available for the dom/sub relationship, the sub will NEVER be an equal and the sub will NEVER be superior.

 

[Etoile]

I guess I just see 24/7 as a synonym for TPE. To me it means at all times. Literally, 24/7. As in, there is no time off, there is no putting job or school or unwitting spouse before the dominant, etc. If other things come before the dominant, then it is not 24/7. It is 18/7 or 24/2 or whatever.

I'm not saying that 24/7 subs can't have jobs, go to school, or be married to someone else. I'm just saying that if the dominant says jump, the submissive should say "how high" before asking boss, teacher, or spouse if they're allowed to jump.

JMHO.

 

[Homburg]

Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't really agree with the 24/7 definition. I think there is a difference between a 24/7 dom/sub relationship and an abusive controlling relationship. To me being a sub 24/7 means always being a sub and never being anything but a sub, DURING THE TIMES AVAILABLE FOR SUCH A RELATIONSHIP. This means if the sub has a job the dom is not allowed to interfere with the job, the sub is allowed to have friends and even have time to themselves and not be controlled to the point where the sub is not allowed to have friends, go out, go to work, go to school, raise children, eat meals, etc. It just means when the time is available for the dom/sub relationship, the sub will NEVER be an equal and the sub will NEVER be superior.

Call me crazy, but "24/7" refers to 24 hours a day and seven days a week. Not 12 hours today, but only 4 tomorrow, and 7 the next day, and...

All the time is all the time. A 24/7 relationship is always on, never off. Calling relationships that don't fit your mold abusive and controlling is a bit over the top.

 

[Netzach]

This is the definition of "sub frenzy" that I am used to, not some weird behavioural shift. Just that "Holy shit, there are other people that want this too?!?" thing, like you said.

I've totally seen Dominant people new to the pool make some really dumbass mistakes on that level. In fact, I've BTDT.

 

[Homburg]

I've totally seen Dominant people new to the pool make some really dumbass mistakes on that level. In fact, I've BTDT.

Are you having a JMo moment? Just because "sub frenzy" was mentioned doesn't mean there is no attendant "dom frenzy". Just that people were talking to a submissive what was asking questions, and it was a warning to said submissive about a possible issue.

 

[Etoile]

Call me crazy, but "24/7" refers to 24 hours a day and seven days a week. Not 12 hours today, but only 4 tomorrow, and 7 the next day, and...

All the time is all the time. A 24/7 relationship is always on, never off. Calling relationships that don't fit your mold abusive and controlling is a bit over the top.

GMTA

 

[ecstaticsub]

Call me crazy, but "24/7" refers to 24 hours a day and seven days a week. Not 12 hours today, but only 4 tomorrow, and 7 the next day, and...

All the time is all the time. A 24/7 relationship is always on, never off. Calling relationships that don't fit your mold abusive and controlling is a bit over the top.

I agree with this, also. There is no rule that a D/s relationship has to be 24/7. It also does not diminish the relationship if it is determined that you can't give 24 hours every day mentally to the relationship. There is no BDSM rule book that says that relationships must be 24/7.

I guess I just see 24/7 as a synonym for TPE. To me it means at all times. Literally, 24/7. As in, there is no time off, there is no putting job or school or unwitting spouse before the dominant, etc. If other things come before the dominant, then it is not 24/7. It is 18/7 or 24/2 or whatever.

I'm not saying that 24/7 subs can't have jobs, go to school, or be married to someone else. I'm just saying that if the dominant says jump, the submissive should say "how high" before asking boss, teacher, or spouse if they're allowed to jump.

JMHO.

I don't agree that 24/7 is the same as TPE. I look at it from a practical standpoint. I have a extremely stressful job. My PYL knows this and also knows why I must keep my job and be wide awake and alert during it. (if not I could very easily kill someone) In theory he could call me at work and tell me to go in the restroom and masturbate for him (just an example) . But would he? Not without making sure that it was a slow part of my day and it fit into my schedule. That is being respectful and practical. Does the fact that he keeps in mind my realities make our relationship not 24/7 ? I don't think so.

Turn it around and I think of some of the periods in the last 3.5 years when he was a little off his game, a little less "domly" due to stress/life circumstances. Since he wasn't ordering me to clean my house naked, or put clothes pins on my breasts or other "tricks" to prove my love and devotion (blech!) does that mean our relationship was not 24/7 at those times?

No. It means it is a respectful, loving relationship which sees the practical side of life. In our minds he owns me. I ALWAYS give him the respect he is owed. I remain submissive to his desires even when he isn't very domly. I actually think that is a time when I am more so. I desperately miss the evil ogre side of him when he is in those rare off moods. But I wait patiently until he is ready again.

That is what being a 24/7 submissive means to me. To be what he wants me to be, 24/7. Not what others think I should be. He and I are a very good match. If he was the kind of PYL who would not respect my job, family and especially my children thanhe would not be my PYL. If I was not the kind of pyl that would respect his wife, his business and his children then he never would have accepted my submission.

My submission is not just a game to turn on and off but it is realistic.

 

[Etoile]

Who said TPE was unrealistic? Of course it doesn't mean you must scrub the floor with a toothbrush or anything like that. But it DOES mean that you do what you're told, when you're told. And yes, any good dom would take into consideration your vanilla life. Of course they would. I never meant to suggest that one necessarily WOULD have to go masturbate in the bathroom when told, only that in a 24/7 situation, it is POSSIBLE. 24/7 doesn't require the dom to be capricious, only that the option is there if they wish to invoke it. And as long as that option is on the table, that is TPE. In fact, it's the most successful and sane form of TPE.

I don't know how to express myself clearly, I guess.

 

[littlegrizz02]

I would like my wife to take over control. If she was smart she could "make" me clean the house and what ever she wanted. I would like her to come home after a date and make me eat her out after her boyfriend came in her. Calling me names like dirty little cum loving slut. Then she brings home a guy and makes me suck his cock.

 

[Homburg]

And yes, any good dom would take into consideration your vanilla life. Of course they would. I never meant to suggest that one necessarily WOULD have to go masturbate in the bathroom when told, only that in a 24/7 situation, it is POSSIBLE. 24/7 doesn't require the dom to be capricious, only that the option is there if they wish to invoke it. And as long as that option is on the table, that is TPE. In fact, it's the most successful and sane form of TPE.

Oddly enough, I think TPE has made me less capricious.

 

[subwannabe]

I guess I've seen my share of abusive controlling relationships and it sickens me (I'm not actually referring to bdsm relationships). To me a Dom needs to be able to read their sub and find out what makes them tick, their likes, their dislikes, etc. The Dom needs to be loving, caring and considerate, at least at some level. There are safewords to be used and to be respected, etc. I think it is wrong and abusive to be so controlling that whatever the dom wants, the dom gets, 24/7 with no boundaries determined whatsoever. In my view, if a 24/7 bdsm relationship uses safewords (which most do or should) or preset boundaries then maybe technically it is not really a 24/7 relationship because anytime a sub uses a safeword, for that moment, they are not a sub anymore, but a person who has the power to say "no, I don't want to go there or do that". This could also include having friends, jobs, school, family relationships, etc. I guess this is all my way of saying that if the dom/sub relationship is a strict 24/7 thing with the dom controlling every aspect of life including jobs, school, friendships, family, etc. without safewords, preset boundaries, or care or concern for their partner then it is an abusive controlling relationship and to me is disgusting and even criminal.

It wasn't too long ago here someone posted a thread that she had "come out" to her mother as wanting a bdsm relationship and her mother had concerns about the dom forcing her to cut out family and other things. The girl was wanting us to help convince her mother that bdsm isn't like that. Her mother had legitimate concerns. Now, don't get me wrong, I would love to be a "full time" sub myself, just not 24/7 as the above definition defined it and I think the definition actually does define an abusive controlling relationship.

 

[Homburg]

I guess I've seen my share of abusive controlling relationships and it sickens me (I'm not actually referring to bdsm relationships). To me a Dom needs to be able to read their sub and find out what makes them tick, their likes, their dislikes, etc. The Dom needs to be loving, caring and considerate, at least at some level. There are safewords to be used and to be respected, etc. I think it is wrong and abusive to be so controlling that whatever the dom wants, the dom gets, 24/7 with no boundaries determined whatsoever. In my view, if a 24/7 bdsm relationship uses safewords (which most do or should) or preset boundaries then maybe technically it is not really a 24/7 relationship because anytime a sub uses a safeword, for that moment, they are not a sub anymore, but a person who has the power to say "no, I don't want to go there or do that". This could also include having friends, jobs, school, family relationships, etc. I guess this is all my way of saying that if the dom/sub relationship is a strict 24/7 thing with the dom controlling every aspect of life including jobs, school, friendships, family, etc. without safewords, preset boundaries, or care or concern for their partner then it is an abusive controlling relationship and to me is disgusting and even criminal.

Well, okay then. I'm abusive, disgusting, and criminal.

Thank you for making that clear. I'll tell viv and MIS so they can find someone not so awful towards them.

Remember kids, 24/7 TPE with no safeword is abusive, disgusting, and criminal. You've read it here.

It wasn't too long ago here someone posted a thread that she had "come out" to her mother as wanting a bdsm relationship and her mother had concerns about the dom forcing her to cut out family and other things. The girl was wanting us to help convince her mother that bdsm isn't like that. Her mother had legitimate concerns. Now, don't get me wrong, I would love to be a "full time" sub myself, just not 24/7 as the above definition defined it and I think the definition actually does define an abusive controlling relationship.

Please don't. Just... don't.