Not a topic I even like thinking about...

[Exciteher]

"She wanted to be raped in real life"

"My wife actually recently asked me to rape her. She said she enjoyed it alot."

We SHOULD be horrified when people say things like this. Some people spoke of control, domination, reluctance, being convinced, acting, fantasies...that's one thing because it's all in the context of roleplay and both people enjoying themselves. You absolutely can not call that rape.

It's callous to associate rape with fantasy, willingness, or any kind of enjoyment because the reality is none of those, and some people have been raped because their attackers thought they wanted and/or enjoyed it. Some will argue it's a matter of semantics....

Erika, I can hear some people thinking... "We know the difference, what is the big deal," but I really think you are right here.

Even when I KNOW the word rape is being used in a role playing or concentual non-consent safe and sane context, my mind tilts, and not in a good way, at that word. It is like I just cannot hold space for that word to mean something vile... and also hold the meaning it does in consential sex play. I fully understand consential non-consent... but am ever so uncomfortable with the word rape.

It may seem like no big deal to some, but never underestimate the power of lauguage at an unconcious level to actually re-enforce or at a minimum maintain destructive attitudes. Especially for the unsophisticated. The examples you use above are excellent... talk about the potential for sending a wrong message. Perhaps if we want to do something about rape, we will have to acknowledge the reality of what the word actually means, and in an unmistakable way.

Seems like there must be a better way to express things. A way that makes the distinction between real rape and consentual, fantasy use of the word "rape" rock solid... to all, even if they are 12. Okay, my question is: How serious do people want to get about all this??

 

[karndav]

I didn't tell anyone when my boyfriend raped me. i was ashamed that I had "let" it happen and didn't know how to stop him. of course he was 6'4" and 210 lbs and i was 5'4" and 105 soaking wet so I could of never stiooped him. But my conditoning at the time was that it must of been my fault somehow!

 

[M's girl]

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[bisexplicit]

What I find disturbing still, to this day, is how I could have let all these things happen. I was a bright girl. Not desperate for anything. I came from a loving family and wasn't looking for an escape from home or anything. So why did I stay with him? I don't know.... still... and that is what bothers me the most.

You didn't let it happen; it is in no way your fault. Not in the least.

People like him are excellent manipulators.

You were scared. You obviously thought you loved him.

Thank you for having the courage to share your story with us.

 

[M's girl]

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[bisexplicit]

And trust me.... me writing down this story had little to do with courage... I did not even intend to write all this... it just came stumbling out... I hesitated to actually post it first but then I thought maybe someone could benefit from this somehow.... you never know. (Oh Lordie, I sound like Oprah now.... ... nothing wrong with that eighter but..... [sigh]).

Thanks anyway Bi...

It probably is more courageous then you realize. And others will probably benefit from it -- even if its just to add to the expansion of the definition of rape.

 

[silverwhisper]

m's girl: sometimes, you don't realize just how bad things are. it's easy to put the best possible face on something.

erika quoth:
it's callous to associate rape with fantasy, willingness, or any kind of enjoyment because the reality is none of those, and some people have been raped because their attackers thought they wanted and/or enjoyed it.

it is for this reason that i have misgivings about the very existence of a non-consent category.

ed

 

[M's girl]

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[HotKittySpank]

I am pissed about the fact that rapists don't get put in jail and when they do they serve very little time. My dad wanted me to find the babysitters and prosecute them but, in the end, I knew it would have failed. I would have looked like an idiot recalling memories and crying on the stand while thier families told how they are good dads,good husbands, church goers yada, yada, - the fuckers.

Sometimes, I have thought about finding them and harrasing them though. Telling their wives what they did. Telling their kids what they did. I don't know if it would make me feel better but I want to ruin thier lives have them lose their jobs! I want their neighbors to know.

I think that if they could do that to me, did they do it to their kids? Are they still doing it? Ok now, I'm crying -bye

 

[EJFan]

I am pissed about the fact that rapists don't get put in jail and when they do they serve very little time.

this is troubling to a lot of people... and justifiably so. on the bright side, everything i've read/heard/seen indicates that rapists are pretty well abused by other prisoners... particularly child sex offenders.

there's no shortage of ways to improve sentencing measures and justice in general. sadly, like everything else, it comes down to money... money to build prisons, money to staff them, money to maintain them...

and i'm going to send silverwhisper and his trout after the first jackass who brings up sheriff arpaio to rebut this... he's a political hack as well. ask any of the lower income area residents in his jurisdiction and see what good he's doing. all his crap is for show and for the benefit of the wealthy neighborhoods.

on the bright side, rest assured that with so called liberties, short sentences, early parole, et al... these guys get their share and, again, i agree that it should be more.

 

[M's girl]

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[pamlady63]

Awareness and education are the most effective and meaningful ways to prevent rape. The number of forcible rapes will decrease ONLY when women realize that rape can happen to them and when men understand what constitutes rape. Lack of awareness on the part of the victim may be viewed by the rapist as inviting coercive behavior.

Rape is not ever going to be 100% preventable but it can be more preventable than it is now. One thing I despise more than ever is when other's blame the victim for her rape, or try to find an explanation for the rape, such as the way she dresses, her behavior, ect. No matter what someone does they do not deserve to be rape...NOTHING justifies rape. No woman should ever be blamed for such a violent act.

Do you really think a prosecuted rapist deserves to get raped by other inmates? What about the quote's: 'an eye for an eye'/you reap what you sow?'

 

[M's girl]

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[glynndah]

The idea that rape is a crime of violence and not sex is very slowly sinking into society. It is an assault, pure and simple, with the criminal using a very specific weapon and a particular "target". It's still a crime whether the woman or man asks the man to use a condom, says I'll do anything, just don't hurt me. etc. That is not consent, any more than saying please don't shoot me implies consent for any other assault. Doing what you feel is necessary to save your life is not consent. and should not be perceived as such.

 

[pamlady63]

Yeah that's not what I mean't to say. Sorry I just get worked up on a subject such as this, so bare with me. I agree a rapist is a rapist no matter what.

 

[Cathleen]

The idea that rape is a crime of violence and not sex is very slowly sinking into society. It is an assault, pure and simple, with the criminal using a very specific weapon and a particular "target". It's still a crime whether the woman or man asks the man to use a condom, says I'll do anything, just don't hurt me. etc. That is not consent, any more than saying please don't shoot me implies consent for any other assault. Doing what you feel is necessary to save your life is not consent. and should not be perceived as such.

I agree, rape is a crime about power and control first of all.

What I'm beginning to think is that there is a difference between rape and date rape. I hope society doesn't measure them different but I see signs of it. So many women, including me, know their attackers. So many date rapes occur during college years, like mine, when boundaries are new to young adults.

As I think back on my situation I think it was a mixture of sex and of power too. He wasn't waiting for me in a back ally to attack me at knife point, I was with him willingly.

It just seems different... I don't know if the fallout is different for the woman raped under different circumstances but my gut tells me there is a whole other hell in being raped in an attack situation. (I can't get the right word there but...)

 

[EJFan]

i'm gonna bring up a topic that might garner a lot of heat... but i totally understand that so feel free to jump on my if you'd like...

what about retro-rape?

now, i'm not suggesting that ANYONE who's posted here has anything to do with this but i have to ask what everyone's thoughts are. does it exist? is it valid?

what happens when a woman decides, after the fact, that she's made a bad decision... either from poor skill at doing so or because of some outside factor (i.e.: drugs, alcohol, etc.)... and decides to file a civil suit (or cooperates in a criminal suit) against a man who acted in a completely ungentlemanly way yet (for purposes of this hypothetical situation) a legal way.

in my mind, this happens. i can't guess how frequently... surely it's the exception... but i know it must happen. to agree with this suspicion, i think it means we have to believe that those who claim this sort of retro-rape are destroying the validity and seriousness of legitimate victims by splitting a legal hair.

 

[Cathleen]

I don't doubt it happens EJ, I've never heard the term before but I'm sure it happens too.

 

[EJFan]

I don't doubt it happens EJ, I've never heard the term before but I'm sure it happens too.

i just kind of made the term up.

in talking with someone else who mentioned "revenge rape" where they claim rape to get back at someone. what i'm talking about isn't quite this cut and dry... i'm talking about women making a case because they CAN even though it wasn't truely rape. it's sort of like revenge rape but more of a gray area.

 

[M's girl]

Yeah that's not what I mean't to say. Sorry I just get worked up on a subject such as this, so bare with me. I agree a rapist is a rapist no matter what.

I knew that's not what you meant and I wanted to just emphasize that 'for the record'.....

 

[M's girl]

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[Bandit58]

I agree, rape is a crime about power and control first of all.

What I'm beginning to think is that there is a difference between rape and date rape. I hope society doesn't measure them different but I see signs of it. So many women, including me, know their attackers. So many date rapes occur during college years, like mine, when boundaries are new to young adults.

As I think back on my situation I think it was a mixture of sex and of power too. He wasn't waiting for me in a back ally to attack me at knife point, I was with him willingly.

It just seems different... I don't know if the fallout is different for the woman raped under different circumstances but my gut tells me there is a whole other hell in being raped in an attack situation. (I can't get the right word there but...)

I was in that hotel room in that bed willingly too but that didn't give him the right to take me like that.......I told him to stop and to get off he was hurting me but he didn't listen. He just kept on and anyone who's had sex with someone who's had too much to drink knows they just keep on and on and on....I was hurting and finally just lapsed into a state of shock I think. To this day the smell of beer on someone's breath makes me feel sick.

I would imagine being attacked by a stranger would be worse, but still, to be hurt by someone who is supposed to love you and care about you is very emotionally battering. He does not remember any of it, it has never been mentioned. I'm sure in his drunken state he thought I was willing because I was naked in that bed but I clearly told him NO STOP YOU'RE HURTING ME several times. Did he stop? NO. From all I have read that is sexual assault/rape call it what you will. Being drunk is no excuse/defence. I really wish I had had the guts to call off the marriage then.......

 

[warrior queen]

i'm gonna bring up a topic that might garner a lot of heat... but i totally understand that so feel free to jump on my if you'd like...

what about retro-rape?

now, i'm not suggesting that ANYONE who's posted here has anything to do with this but i have to ask what everyone's thoughts are. does it exist? is it valid?

what happens when a woman decides, after the fact, that she's made a bad decision... either from poor skill at doing so or because of some outside factor (i.e.: drugs, alcohol, etc.)... and decides to file a civil suit (or cooperates in a criminal suit) against a man who acted in a completely ungentlemanly way yet (for purposes of this hypothetical situation) a legal way.

in my mind, this happens. i can't guess how frequently... surely it's the exception... but i know it must happen. to agree with this suspicion, i think it means we have to believe that those who claim this sort of retro-rape are destroying the validity and seriousness of legitimate victims by splitting a legal hair.

in my experience, having gone through all the inquisitions, the psych testing, the rape kit - it would be extremely difficult for a woman to actually get away with a 'false' allegation of rape.
she'd sooner or later stumble over something she said, the timeline, the event itself - and would be caught in her lie.

believe me, when you've told your story over and over again for the umpteenth time over a year or two [leading up to trial], and then sit in the witness box facing the person you've accused, it better be the truth you're telling..... coz those defence lawyers are brutal.

 

[M's girl]

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[bisexplicit]

i'm gonna bring up a topic that might garner a lot of heat... but i totally understand that so feel free to jump on my if you'd like...

what about retro-rape?

now, i'm not suggesting that ANYONE who's posted here has anything to do with this but i have to ask what everyone's thoughts are. does it exist? is it valid?

what happens when a woman decides, after the fact, that she's made a bad decision... either from poor skill at doing so or because of some outside factor (i.e.: drugs, alcohol, etc.)... and decides to file a civil suit (or cooperates in a criminal suit) against a man who acted in a completely ungentlemanly way yet (for purposes of this hypothetical situation) a legal way.

in my mind, this happens. i can't guess how frequently... surely it's the exception... but i know it must happen. to agree with this suspicion, i think it means we have to believe that those who claim this sort of retro-rape are destroying the validity and seriousness of legitimate victims by splitting a legal hair.

EJ, at least according to NH law, you cannot consent when you're impaired by drugs and alcohol. So, thats not retro-rape (or whatever), it legally is rape (actually, in NH law, the term "rape" doesn't exist, its all considered sexual abuse).
And why someone would go through that whole process just because they felt bad about it the next day...(if it truly wasn't rape) well, I can't imagine anyone who would stick with that.