Offend-O-Metering: U.K. vs. States

[DVS]

Other than that the Stars and Bars is used by white surpremists who need to feel superior over something since they obviously can't compete in the real world, or by shortsighted people who've seen Gone With The Wind too many times and, God help them, think the old South was a place of romance.

What? You no like Kudzu and Spanish moss?

 

[Quasimodem]

Re: What offends the Canadians?

I believe they get rather defensive on the subject of sheep.
MG'

You're thinking of Aussies.
Canucks get defensive about their beavers.

 

[Guest]

thank you, Croctden

That was an excellent and concise lecture; fits with my lesser studies. I appreciated it.

much regard, Perdita

 

[MathGirl]

Re: Re: What offends the Canadians?

You're thinking of Aussies.
Canucks get defensive about their beavers.

Dear Q,
You're right, of course. You know about those things. My mistake.
MG

 

[jfinn]

Re: 3

The argument that the South left over State’s Rights, does not really hold water. It’s something the South and North more or less agreed upon after the fact to help make up. It continues to be whitewashed to this day. There was only one “State Right” that the South was interested. That, of course, was slavery. Reading the debates of the day there was no mention of any other rights, even after the war the only issue the South could scrounge up was the tariff, which no one mentioned in 1861 and was not addressed in the Confederate Constitution. If fact the only major differences were strict protections of slavery were spelled out. The V.P. of the Confederacy said it was all about slavery at the ratification party.

This is not say that the Rebs felt they were fighting for slavery (only the very rich owned many slaves) or the Yankees were fighting against it. When the Emancipation Proclamation was signed a large chuck of the Union (especially the Mid-West) went ape-shit. However if the South had not had slavery, or the North did, then there would not have been a war. In that indirect sense the war was 100% over slavery.

I’m not trying to start a bitter debate. Oggbashan, this is still one of the sorest points in the US. Not everyone who flies it is a racist, some people are proud of the bravery of their great grandfather. They heard about how great he was, and now people are saying he fought for a racist cause. This leads to considerable consternation. Unfortunately all racists do fly that flag. NOTE: what you thing of as the Stars and Bars is actually the battle flag, the Stars and Bars resembles the US flag. Look <aHREF="http://www.usflag.org/confederate.stars.and.bars.html"> here </a>.

I stand corrected on the states rights. Actually I guess I assumed that the term state's rights started out as an appeasment to those who were reluctant to fight over slavery, but I see what you're saying and it makes a great deal of sense.

By the way. I'm decended from Virginia planters. They rode with Pickett at Gettysburg and one or another of them was with the Armies of Northern Virginia for the duration of the war. They were brave, but they were also wrong. I have never owned a Confederate flag. I never will.

Jayne

 

[Cuckolded_BlK_Male]

Originally posted by Croctden

... Not everyone who flies it is a racist, some people are proud of the bravery of their great grandfather...

By that logic, there should be hundreds of thousands of Germans flying swastikas in honor of the bravery of their grand fathers' "bravery." Both flags are symbols of hatred and abominable evil.

But even setting aside the millions of people whose lives, liberty, and dignity were denied them in the antebellum south, the confederate flag represents the treason of the leaders of the southern states. Why these people aren't reviled as the scum of the earth is a mystery to me. But, I think it has something to do with the underlying racist nature of the whole country.

 

[patrick1]

back in the ridiculous rather than sublime section of this thread...my parents' generation used to sing a song whose punch line 'Bob's your Uncle, and Fanny's your aunt' caused great hilarity which mystified me till I was quite old...

And my Uncle D (not that this has anything to do with the thread) had spent most of WW II in North Africa and sang 'Have a sniff, have a sniff, have a sniff on me' which we all sang with gusto...



p

 

[TheEarl]

Re: 2

What about the Indians? If memory serves there were several race riots a few years ago. My understanding is (and this comes from reading a report from the Blair government) that Indians live side by side everyone else, but have little interaction.

For a start, you'd probably be better off referring to them as Asians, because the Anglo-Asian population in England may have come from India, Pakistan, Sri Lanka, etc.

AFAIK (And take this with a pinch of salt as I live in an area of England that is predominantly white, so I have no first hand experience) Asian families actually discourage mixed race marriages, because they wish to keep their traditions undiluted. If anyone can gainsay me then feel free, cause I'm not the most knowledgeable person on this subject.

On of the worst phrases in my part of England is 'Well, I'm not a racist, but...' It's always followed by a horrifically racist comment, that you have to nod and smile along to unless you want to make a scene.

Well, I'm not a racist but...
If we threw out all the Asians, there'd be more jobs for the proper Englishmen.
We should throw out all the muslims. They're all fucking terrorists anyway.
If we chucked out all the Pakis, then there'd be less crime.

Sometimes I do despair of this country.

[/Maudlin moment]

The Earl

 

[Rainbow Skin]

Another linguistic anecdote from my glitzy contact with the stars. Or that I read somewhere. There was an Australian film in which a little boy hurt his hand (or something) and said it 'hurt like buggery'. In Australia (and in Britain) this harmless colloquialism passes unremarked. Eyebrows were raised when it was heard in the US.

 

[oggbashan]

Crockden,

Thanks for that explanation.

Few of the people who use the stars and bars over here seem to have any real idea about the American Civil War. Some of them even think of it as a Yankee flag. I shouldn't be surprised. History of the UK is not now taught in schools except in short disconnected bits so expecting people to know about The Confederacy when they don't know that we had a Civil War here is asking too much.

Either they regard it as a "white supremacy" label or more commonly they associate it with innocent pastimes such as country music and line dancing.

But that is not how it is seen by minorities.

Og

 

[Lauren Hynde]

Perdita's picked up on one of my pet peeves: I hate being identified as British - I'm English goddammit and proud of it. If a certain Swedish member of the board checks out this board from a London cybercafe, can she tell me if she'd be offended by being identified as being European rather than Swedish?

The Earl

Absolutely not. I'm not sure what the general perception in Scandinavia is, but in most of continental Europe, especially in the south, no one would find being called European offensive. I'm from Porto and proud of it. I'm Portuguese and proud of it. I'm European and proud of it. None of these things is incompatible. If you tell me you think I'm from Lisbon, and that Portugal is a Spanish island, then I'd rip your heart out with a spoon.

 

[Guest]

Black Male above:

Man, I only want to say, esp. for those who might be cringing at your post, that I agree with you and know it. Most media and historians (though more truth is coming out in academia) focus on the great pioneers and visionaries of democracy, but 'our' country was built and born of genocide and brutal violence against any non-white people (tribes of native americans, Chinese, Mexicans, African slaves). For me the initial colonial endeavor to escape the British crown and religious discrimination was negated by what happened once the founding fathers settled here. Now the U.S. seems to be pushing forward via very selective legal terrorism. A slick two-week state-of-the-art attack, on a country w/no defense to match ours is not a war.

FYI, I was born (1946) and raised in Detroit. Being Mexican in a great American city that was quite defined between black and white I was exotic and never quite fit in, yet I was always asked what I was, and more often "Are you a nigger?", or simply called one.

Now "Hispanics" (a term similar to Earl being called British) are becoming a majority in major U.S. cities, but it is still only a number when compared to the majority in government and in the media.

Thanks for your post. Perdita

 

[Guest]

Despair cannot be maudlin

Well, I'm not a racist but...
If we threw out all the Asians, there'd be more jobs for the proper Englishmen.
We should throw out all the muslims. They're all fucking terrorists anyway.
If we chucked out all the Pakis, then there'd be less crime.

Earl, your examples fit U.S. remarks perfectly, only some of the names (labels) would change.

Pear

 

[sirhugs]

Re: Despair cannot be maudlin

Earl, your examples fit U.S. remarks perfectly, only some of the names (labels) would change.

Pear

but Americans, like Canadians, have even less excuse. They almost all came from elsewhere originally. And the only true natives were treated to genocide.

 

[Guest]

Re: Re: Despair cannot be maudlin

but Americans, like Canadians, have even less excuse. They almost all came from elsewhere originally. And the only true natives were treated to genocide.

True, I mention that above; but the Britishers came from elsewhere too. They just have a much longer history so it's a different focus than here (the Americas).

I'm up because I couldn't sleep, what timezone are you in?

Perdita

 

[Rainbow Skin]

. o O (Throw out all bloody sapiens, have more rhinoceros for us. All that jabber jabber with mouth, and making things, not natural, is it?)

 

[Guest]

Rainbow:

Thanks for the Brit-Com relief. Do you have hippos in the U.K.; I know you have sheep. Tell me something lewd, I can't sleep.

Perdita the Shepardess

 

[oggbashan]

You need a ram to produce more sheep.

Lambs may be fun but why do they grow up?

Why does counting sheep help you to go to sleep?

Because they are easier to count than hippos who hide underwater.

Og

 

[Guest]

Ha ha ha. Not lewd enough though.

What do you think might offend U.S. sheep vs. U.K. sheep?

 

[DVS]

Re: Re: Despair cannot be maudlin

but Americans, like Canadians, have even less excuse. They almost all came from elsewhere originally. And the only true natives were treated to genocide.

Genocide is not quite a true statement. It wasn't intentional to kill them all off. I think it was more of a "they were in the way" type of thing, and expendable.

The genocide we all remember from our more recent past, seems so much more vivid, and this was intentional.

So the killing of our native Americans wasn't a true genocide...but, when you look at it, lives lost are lives lost, no matter when or where, or why..

 

[Lauren Hynde]

Ha ha ha. Not lewd enough though.

What do you think might offend U.S. sheep vs. U.K. sheep?

I've heard that Welsh sheep get more love n' tenderness...

 

[oggbashan]

Ha ha ha. Not lewd enough though.

What do you think might offend U.S. sheep vs. U.K. sheep?

Either a Union or Confederate Steam Ram would offend sheep.

Long metal protuberances don't feel the same.

Og

 

[Guest]

DVS

Sorry, but genocide, whether intentional or organized, is genocide in the end. Blame, even justice at times, need need not matter on intent Some nations have simply been more up front than others.

 

[Guest]

Celtic species turn me on

I've heard that Welsh sheep get more love n' tenderness...

I love Welshmen. It's those voices. Now I'd like to hear a Welsh sheep baaaaaa; or a Welshman.

 

[Rainbow Skin]

Well we haven't got them any more, obviously, cos the Homo sapiens came over from Africa and ate them all.

Thinks. Palaeontologists think Neanderthals are extinct, but perhaps they just haven't looked around Literotica.