Offend-O-Metering: U.K. vs. States

[Guest]

cornpone

Perdita! And you said you never got Are You Being Served?. If it wasn't for double entendres that show would have had no script at all.

Yes, but they were too corny (an Amer. expression only I think) for me, too obvious. Plus I don't like watching old fart type characters.

Just sent you a PM.

P.

 

[Quasimodem]

. . . Plus I don't like watching old fart type characters.
P.

Hey!
I resemble that remark!

 

[Croctden]

Re: Cahab:

I never got B. Hill or Are You Being Served. Love AbFab and Black Adder.

What about Red Dwarf, Couplings, Keeping up Appearances, One Foot in the Grave, and Waiting for God? To say nothing of Monty Python.

 

[Guest]

Re: Re: Cahab:

What about Red Dwarf, Couplings, Keeping up Appearances, One Foot in the Grave, and Waiting for God? To say nothing of Monty Python.

Yes, I get all of those, and more, just not BH or those dept. store pervs.

Pervy Perdita

 

[Madame Manga]

Finally commenting on the thread

What pops into mind vis-a-vis the thread title: I took a lovely trip to England about twelve years ago, spending most of it in the Cotswolds, Stratford-upon-Avon, and London. I adored the historical sites most of all--the Tower of London, Kenilworth Castle, Anne Hathaway's cottage, and so on. Manor houses, art museums, little country churches of Norman pedigree. I had read about them all my life and always looked forward to seeing them someday.

And in every damn place, the docent or guide or even the nice elderly vicar felt compelled to make some crack about boorish and/or comically ignorant Americans. My husband and I were traveling with my grandfather (born in Coventry) and a group of his old friends, and so apparently were taken for English except when we opened our mouths. "Oh, dear, so sorry, didn't realize." That got old fast.

So, to tweak a few settled stereotypes, I fed info to my husband when the Yeoman Warder at the Tower of London asked such questions of our group as, "So, can anyone here tell me why it's called the Wakefield Tower? Oh, you there, sir? I thought you said you were from California, ho ho. You won't know this one, surely."

Man, that was satisfying. I also stiffed him on the tip. ;-)

MM

 

[patrick1]

I'm with Perdita on the UK comedies. Are You Being Served? was one of those comedies that seemed like it must have appealed to your parents even though it was meant for you: old before its time. Benny Hill? Pfff.

But then, who am I to judge? I've never got Friends either. Perhaps I just hate watching people cue each other up for jokes for half an hour.



p

 

[peachykeen]

funny thread.


Even after living here for years, I still forget to say 'trousers' and refer to them as 'pants', to the great amusement of me mates.

And I still sometimes forget that 'pissed' means drunk and not really really angry, and someone will say "Stuart was completely pissed" and I'll be all like trying to figure out why and then remember 'oh, right...'

 

[oggbashan]

Re: Finally commenting on the thread

And in every damn place, the docent or guide or even the nice elderly vicar felt compelled to make some crack about boorish and/or comically ignorant Americans. My husband and I were traveling with my grandfather (born in Coventry) and a group of his old friends, and so apparently were taken for English except when we opened our mouths. "Oh, dear, so sorry, didn't realize." That got old fast.

So, to tweak a few settled stereotypes, I fed info to my husband when the Yeoman Warder at the Tower of London asked such questions of our group as, "So, can anyone here tell me why it's called the Wakefield Tower? Oh, you there, sir? I thought you said you were from California, ho ho. You won't know this one, surely."

Man, that was satisfying. I also stiffed him on the tip. ;-)

MM

I don't think that UK guides are any different from tourist guides anywhere. They make jokes about nationalities, assume none of those present knows anything about what they have come to see, and generally annoy people who have come because they wanted to see the particular site.

Then they get their facts wrong as well or make definite statements when historians only deal in probabilities. "King John had his second cousin killed in this room at 2pm on Ash Wednesday. No one knows who did it but I think it was ****." When you know the room wasn't built until two centuries after King John it grates.

In France I prefer to go round with a French speaking guide. The English speaking ones give a different version (and different jokes).

My father was a voluntary guide in the City of London for many years after he retired. What he enjoyed was learning from the people he was escorting. How would he know what impact the City of London had on San Francisco after the fire? But if he let someone from San Francisco tell what they knew, then he and the group had a better tour.

Studying before you visit a place usually makes the trip more enjoyable - except for the guides.

Og

 

[oggbashan]

Bond Girls

Has anyone noticed the double-entendres in the names of girls in the James Bond 007 films?

Starting with Pussy Galore .

Some of the names and the other double entendres work only in British English, some only in American.

Og

 

[redrider4u]

Re: 3

Okay, this is a highly controversial issue so I’m going to just try to slip my say in without making it a major fight and ruining the hangout. I should probably hold my tongue, but I majored in the Civil War in college, I work at a Civil War site/museum, and I reenact so this is big to me. My apologizes in advance for the lecture.

The argument that the South left over State’s Rights, does not really hold water. It’s something the South and North more or less agreed upon after the fact to help make up. It continues to be whitewashed to this day. There was only one “State Right” that the South was interested. That, of course, was slavery. Reading the debates of the day there was no mention of any other rights, even after the war the only issue the South could scrounge up was the tariff, which no one mentioned in 1861 and was not addressed in the Confederate Constitution. If fact the only major differences were strict protections of slavery were spelled out. The V.P. of the Confederacy said it was all about slavery at the ratification party.

This is not say that the Rebs felt they were fighting for slavery (only the very rich owned many slaves) or the Yankees were fighting against it. When the Emancipation Proclamation was signed a large chuck of the Union (especially the Mid-West) went ape-shit. However if the South had not had slavery, or the North did, then there would not have been a war. In that indirect sense the war was 100% over slavery.

As for the flag itself: Jayne basically did hit it out of the park on the return of the flag in the 1950’s. Several states incorporated the battle flag into their state flag. Mississippi still has it. Georgia did until last year. The governor who changed it lost reelection because of it.

I’m not trying to start a bitter debate. Oggbashan, this is still one of the sorest points in the US. Not everyone who flies it is a racist, some people are proud of the bravery of their great grandfather. They heard about how great he was, and now people are saying he fought for a racist cause. This leads to considerable consternation. Unfortunately all racists do fly that flag. After the flag was changed in Georgia in the next election the Republican candidate for governor promised a referendum on the issue. Many rural voters who never voted before turned out and swept the Democrats out power in the state. Of course it’s still so touchy that now the new governor is trying to back out of his promise by comprising and making the Stars and Bars the state flag. NOTE: what you thing of as the Stars and Bars is actually the battle flag, the Stars and Bars resembles the US flag. Look <a HREF="http://www.usflag.org/confederate.stars.and.bars.html"> here </a>.

I also have a degree in history. I also was born and lived several times in Virginia, where much blood from the Civil and Revolutionary Wars was shed. An old saying: "there's so much blood in the ground of Virginia, that if you dig deep enough, it seeps up."

The civil war and the confederate battle flag are subjects that many Americans are unable to address objectively. The memories and emotions will not subside (imho) for another two hundred years though it's been almost 140 yrs since the end of the war.

As far the causes of the war, they are varied. Oftimes, depending on a person's interpretation, the causes may be overstated, not stated, or even adapted to fit a political agenda. One of my pet peeves are people NOT from the south explaining the south from their distant perspective. The clash of cultures and economies from the civil war continue today in this country. The transformation of the various confedrate flags from historical symbols into racial symbols by certain groups with social and political agendas is an example.

There are many ethnic, racial, geographical, and cultural groups within the US. I've noticed on an international basis, oftimes people from other countries have an inclination to label all Americans the same. On the other hand, I think oftimes competing statements coming from the US by different people might cause some confusion and misundertaning of the US abroad.

Ogg, one thing I have noticed about residents of the UK: sometimes they identify themselves as Welsh, English, Scottish, etc. In fact an earlier poster vehemently declared himself English, not British.

While I've studied the history of your isles, I do not think a plurality of Americans really understand some of the cultural and geographical differences among people in the UK.

 

[cahab]

Re: cornpone

Yes, but they were too corny (an Amer. expression only I think) for me, too obvious. Plus I don't like watching old fart type characters.

Just sent you a PM.

P.

Okay, I'll grant you, they were never actually funny. But you did get them. And we do get corny.

Actually, we get most American stuff these days. A diet of US TV will do that for you. And since you guys discovered how to be funny (round about the end of Cheers) and UK TV got so soap dominated we seem to have stopped trying very hard.

We just caught up with stand-up, too.

One question, slightly off-topic (what am I saying?); is the US really as insular in its news and views as it appears to us?

We get lots of US stuff, but the US is always reported as being either ignorant or simply prejudicially misinformed about the rest of the world. Is that true, or is that in itself a misrepresentation, are we only getting to see the bottom feeders in the population (uncluding the one that's president).

Cahab.

 

[Lovepotion69]

First of all, I don't get offended if someone says I'm European instead of Swedish. I may not even get that offended if you think I'm Norwegian or Danish, it's easy to mix the Scandinavian countries up. I DO get offended if you keep saying I'm from Switzerland when I've told you I'm Swedish tons of times...

I think that both Brits and US people are more edgy when it comes to criticism towards their countries and the people. Both countries are quite patriotic, and in Sweden that really isn't the case. More the opposite I feel. No, not all of the stereotypes are correct, but we've heard it so many times so we just laugh at it. From my experience Brits and Americans switch into patriotic and defense mode much faster than Swedish people.

Someone mentioned flags. In Sweden the Nazis who want to keep Sweden white have taken up the Swedish flag as a symbol for the "clean, white society." It sucks that it's like this. Some people don't want to put up the country's flag because they fear someone might take them for Nazis.

I find American's more Politically correct and more prudish within certain areas, but the same goes for Brits and Swedes, perhaps not within the same areas though.
Some friends showed me adverts that would not work in the US; nipples showing, full nude for a shower commercial etc (pardon if I get it wrong). In the UK I saw heaps of bill posters for gentlemen's clubs and all these escort service things in the phone boots. Now, that would NOT work in Sweden. Not in a country where H&M posters are spray painted black for their lingerie/bikini posters "being sexist".

 

[redrider4u]

From Cahab:

One question, slightly off-topic (what am I saying?); is the US really as insular in its news and views as it appears to us?

We get lots of US stuff, but the US is always reported as being either ignorant or simply prejudicially misinformed about the rest of the world. Is that true, or is that in itself a misrepresentation, are we only getting to see the bottom feeders in the population (uncluding the one that's president).

Cahab.

The general course of US history is intervention in international affairs only when having to participate. This course changed somewhat after WWII as western Europe was exhausted by that conflict. So, somewhat reluctantly we took up the role of being a player in the college of democracies against the eastern and asian autocracies. After the collapse of the iron curtain countries and the receeding threat of nuclear war we relaxed somewhat.

Then came 9/11 and jerked us out of our complacency. It is difficult to relate to someone outside this country the effect of that event.

Right or wrong, good or bad, yea or nay we are not going to tolerate terrorists or states that abet terrorism or are a threat to international peace and harmony or pose a threat to this country.

This mission, or, "attitude" as parlayed by the press of other countries is represented by our "insularity" or "lack of understandig of other nations."

We have thousands of newspapers, the internet, and numerous 24/7 news channels. We are aware of the actions and attitudes of other countries and regimes.

Quite frankly, when the tire hits the road, we are not going to infinitely play the debating or diplomatic games.

While several countries in Europe are wringing their collective hands over the actions of the US, we perceive them as whiners and speed bumps. (excluding the magnificent role of the UK)

In summary, a classic statement for the US......that perhaps demonstrates our arrogance from a European standpoint, but determination from our perspective:

"Lead, follow, or get out of the way."

IMHO


__________________

 

[Guest]

from a state of confusion

to use Rider's tag line. So, Cahab, et al, here's an example of our diversity. I do not agree w/much of what Red says, and the use of "we". I'm not in there. I hate that majority attitude in the states. I do not call the attack of Iraq a "war". And I do not get Blair any more than I get Dubya, though they both seem to brook no opposition to their righteous religious thinking. (I myself am a very liberal and ambivalent R. Catholic.)

Re. 9/11, it was a profound shock to the system on many levels, some of which we may not understand for generations. For the present it is too visceral and politically abused. I hope the following makes sense, just as a sincere anecdotal reference.

When the 1989 earthquake hit San Francisco and we saw pics of our Bay Bridge broken it was a shock to our systems (literally, we were jerked around by a geological phenomenon). The media made it out to be such an event yet compared to the big Mexico City or Japan earthquakes of recent times it was nothing.

Some areas of the city were without public utilities for several hours to a few days. I had two good friends from Tehran who shared a flat in one of those neighborhoods. After a few days of hearing the natives go on about their hardships they told me, "It was nothing to be w/o electricity and water for two days. We lived through a war, our city was bombed for godsake!" (One might imagine their view of the Carter administration.)

Yes we have lots of news media but the majority of it is crap. I get my real news from European friends and its content and focus is so very different from that heard or read here.

Yes, "we" do at times seem to intervene for freedom or what have you, but it disturbs me how very selective the govt. is about where "we" choose to "help" (think many African nations vs. the middle east; there's more interest in oil than diamonds).

I happen not to be part of mainstream America by circumstance of ethnicity and class (raised in a housing project in Motown), and now I live in what most of middle-America labels the leftist Babylon of the west.

All of that is to say we're a huge powerful nation, at present, and majority rules but it doesn't mean freedom or justice for all. Just look at the mere statistics on the populations of death rows in the U.S., even by state and area.)

Finally, my intent w/the above is not to argue or rile, or even protest, just to give the UK-ers a personal, yet rooted in America, view.

Perdita
edited only to correct typo in spelling of Tehran

 

[sirhugs]

Re: from a state of confusion

Finally, my intent w/the above is not to argue or rile, or even protest, just to give the UK-ers a personal, yet rooted in America, view.

Perdita

but is it well grounded in reality??

 

[Guest]

Hugs:

At 56 it's the reality I know. And as I hoped to get across, only one of millions (though there are more like mine in my town than elsewhere). I presume there are as many realities (though only less in number) in the U.K.

Perdita

 

[redrider4u]

Re: Hugs:

At 56 it's the reality I know. And as I hoped to get across, only one of millions (though there are more like mine in my town than elsewhere). I presume there are as many realities (though only less in number) in the U.K.

Perdita

Perdita is absolutely correct in her assessment of the diversity of the US. The US is not monolithic in viewpoints or opinions, rather a collection of the same.

Fortunately, we have many time zones, cause other wise we could not agree upon the time!

 

[Guest]

My time is your time, Red

Fortunately, we have many time zones, cause other wise we could not agree upon the time!

Isn't it 9:15 a.m. everywhere? That's what my Lit. clock tells me.

Lit-time: a new standard.

Perdita

 

[redrider4u]

Re: My time is your time, Red

Isn't it 9:15 a.m. everywhere? That's what my Lit. clock tells me.

Lit-time: a new standard.

Perdita

Lit-time=Intimate-time.

(S).......we're on the same clock!

 

[gauchecritic]

Glad you stepped in there Purr. As I read RR4U I was getting angrier by the second and composing bile, sarcasm and arrogance to throw back. Thanks

That's definitely one for the meter. What is perceived in the UK as US arrogance and what is probably perceived in the US as UK patronisation.

Can't help it. RedRider, from where I stand (very very left of left) The Blair Witch struck out on his own with the US and with very little popular backing.

GAuche

 

[Guest]

Glad to help, Gauche

I wouldn't have minded reading some well written bile though.

Hadn't heard "Blair Witch", very good. I tell anyone the only difference between our 'leaders' is that one of them is rather literate.

PM me whenever you're ready to blow (bile I mean).

Purr

 

[TheEarl]

Re: Bond Girls

Has anyone noticed the double-entendres in the names of girls in the James Bond 007 films?

Starting with Pussy Galore .

Some of the names and the other double entendres work only in British English, some only in American.

Og

What about Chu Mi from Man With the Golden Gun. Roger Moore eyebrow for that one.

Sorry, it's Sir Roger Moore now. I'm sure it's a knighthood for the smoothest voice in the world ever.

The Earl

 

[Guest]

that English eyebrow fetish, ummm...

Roger Moore eyebrow for that one.

Hey Earl, congratulate me: 1K posts.

I'm sure I missed some of the British dbl-entendres but besides the names the films are packed with them, I have a fave list somewhere.

Shocking but not news: I saw Dr. No when first released!

ta, Pear

 

[redrider4u]

Glad you stepped in there Purr. As I read RR4U I was getting angrier by the second and composing bile, sarcasm and arrogance to throw back. Thanks

That's definitely one for the meter. What is perceived in the UK as US arrogance and what is probably perceived in the US as UK patronisation.

Can't help it. RedRider, from where I stand (very very left of left) The Blair Witch struck out on his own with the US and with very little popular backing.

GAuche

LOL Gauche, cool your jets. We all have different opinions. I was simply expressing some. I realize some US actions upset some others. I realize PM Blair was walking or continues to walk a tightrope.

We can still knock back a brew sometime......(S)

 

[Guest]

I'll have one

Walking the boards always makes me thirsty. My treat, as I started this thread. I'm presuming we're using virtual cash.

Now where is that Critic?

P