Offering Service vs Obeying Commands

[shy slave]

LOL, me neither. Incubus I mean, not Andante. Some things might be pushing the point a wee bit too far. J's comment struck a chord & a smile in me too.

 

[shy slave]

You understand what I was saying. Yes, I think you really do.

Yes, I understood.

I like your posts, they come across as clear, honest and open to discussion

 

[shy slave]

Yes, it makes sense to me, anyway. I've said it before... you can't be all things to someone, all the time.

But no matter what, when I feel deeply for someone I want to be as many things for that person as I can.

Often leads to feelings of failure because you are right you can't be all things to someone, all the time

 

[incubus'_sub]

Yes, it works for Catalina just fine & probably lots of others as well.

I don't think anyone is in danger of being forceful to others who see things differently. We're just giving you a clap & saying yep, that works for us too.

 

[JMohegan]

Yes, it works for Catalina just fine & probably lots of others as well.

I don't think anyone is in danger of being forceful to others who see things differently. We're just giving you a clap & saying yep, that works for us too.

Good to know. Thanks.

 

[JMohegan]

Yes, I understood.

I like your posts, they come across as clear, honest and open to discussion

That's very kind of you to say, Shy. Thank you.

I think we might be going over the accepted limit for smilie characters on a Talk thread... lol. I hope RJ doesn't get upset when he comes back.

 

[A Desert Rose]

... Maybe. But maybe not. Because you can buy spontaneous gifts and organize his DVDs and research his work problems and make special dinners and give him unsolicited backrubs and walk in a way that gives him a better view of the boats..... BUT..... if he tells you to do something in the D/s portion of your relationship (in the bedroom, out of the bedroom, or some combination of the two), then you are going to be expected to do it.
...

I believe that most submissives would find no arguement with this post. If you don't accept that your obedience is expected, then you're in the wrong relationship.

If the ground rules don't work for you, then move along. I see a lot of manipulation (as in topping from the bottom) and that gets you nowhere... fast. You do as your told (or in other words, what is expected of you). That's not really hard for me to understand (and believe me, I have to break things down to the most fundemental elements to keep track and keep up. I'm not the sharpest knife in the drawer, as many will atest.) Shouldn't be for anyone else, either.

 

[JMohegan]

I believe that most submissives would find no arguement with this post. If you don't accept that your obedience is expected, then you're in the wrong relationship.

If the ground rules don't work for you, then move along. I see a lot of manipulation (as in topping from the bottom) and that gets you nowhere... fast. You do as your told (or in other words, what is expected of you). That's not really hard for me to understand (and believe me, I have to break things down to the most fundemental elements to keep track and keep up. I'm not the sharpest knife in the drawer, as many will atest.) Shouldn't be for anyone else, either.

Not hard for submissives to understand, that's true. But I have run across a lot of people over the years who are "pleasers in the exploring phase", as I referred to in the beginning of the post you are quoting.

They may be able to understand the words, but they don't really grasp the import of what is being said. It is sometimes hard to fathom what giving up control in some aspect of your life really means or feels like until you have experienced it.

 

[A Desert Rose]

Not hard for submissives to understand, that's true. But I have run across a lot of people over the years who are "pleasers in the exploring phase", as I referred to in the beginning of the post you are quoting.

They may be able to understand the words, but they don't really grasp the import of what is being said. It is sometimes hard to fathom what giving up control in some aspect of your life really means or feels like until you have experienced it.

I understood exactly what you were saying and I opted to leave that part out... on purpose. I also opted to remove the words "experienced submissives" from my original post... on purpose.

[I've been flamed way too much here. I try to moderate my words which then seems to take away the point I'm trying to make. But it does avoid flames from others. It also makes me look stupid. For that, I apologize, because I don't really believe I am.]

And again, I agree with your post, this one and the one I quoted originally. I also believe that obedience is the FUNDEMENTAL way to please your Dom. It's worked for me, at least.

 

[JMohegan]

I understood exactly what you were saying and I opted to leave that part out... on purpose. I also opted to remove the words "experienced submissives" from my original post... on purpose.

[I've been flamed way too much here. I try to moderate my words which then seems to take away the point I'm trying to make. But it does avoid flames from others. It also makes me look stupid. For that, I apologize, because I don't really believe I am.]

And again, I agree with your post, this one and the one I quoted originally. I also believe that obedience is the FUNDEMENTAL way to please your Dom. It's worked for me, at least.

I don't think you look stupid at all.

As for flaming, to tell you the truth I don't see the point and have no patience with it. I am just trying to understand everybody's point of view.

I'm glad you agree with my post, and I really, really like the way you phrase this part of your own:

I also believe that obedience is the FUNDEMENTAL way to please your Dom.

Yes, that's it exactly. Because this gets to the heart of why he considers himself a "Dom" in the first place.

That's not to say that everything else is non-essential. There are many critically important aspects of the relationship, and obedience is not nearly enough. As I wrote in post 86, I'm not even going to get to the D/s compatibility discussion unless all those other hurdles have been cleared.
(I write that for the benefit of others, not you.)

But fundamental is a great word for the obedience aspect. Yes, that's how I see it too.

 

[kristyna]

But I have spoken to many "pleasers" in the exploring phase who don't really grasp what many dominants mean when they talk about power exchange or a transfer of control. They look at submissives talking about the urge to please their mate, and they see the joy expressed by people in the lifestyle, and they think that maybe this could be a way for them to find happiness and fulfillment in relationships too.

Maybe. But maybe not. Because you can buy spontaneous gifts and organize his DVDs and research his work problems and make special dinners and give him unsolicited backrubs and walk in a way that gives him a better view of the boats..... BUT..... if he tells you to do something in the D/s portion of your relationship (in the bedroom, out of the bedroom, or some combination of the two), then you are going to be expected to do it.

This is the area where I see a lot of people tripping up as they try to enter the D/s world, and this is why I have been focusing on the distinction between D/s and non-D/s in your thread about D/s compatibility.

JM, when I first read this statement, I was really taken aback by it. I tend to question myself on many different levels and aspects of my life. One thing that I sometimes find myself asking is if I am "submissive enough", as if there were a gauge or meter for this. Your statement made me stop and think about my relationship and more importantly about my frame of mind. Sometimes I just need a little reminder that I am doing the right thing. Gotta love those little *aha* moments.

So much more I wanted to comment on, but it's late.

For me, this has been a wonderful and thought provoking discussion and I know I appreciate everyones comments and points of view.

 

[submissiveknight]

Thank You RJ for your reply.And yes it is nice to see yourself in others! Today in my case I'm more partial to the obediant side. Reason being I really messed up this week and disobeyed my Mistress! I needed to be somewhere and ended up an hour late and She was absolutly livid. I knew She was really mad when I had to request my own punishment. She accepted my letter of request as adequate. She also thought it a proper idea to create a thread to solicit some ideas for Her punishment. So later this weekend I'll have to start a thread for my punishment come one come all and help with your creativity. But I have one question, would this thread go in the TALK or CHAT room? She will be very happy for everyone to get involved

 

[RJMasters]

Thank You RJ for your reply.And yes it is nice to see yourself in others! Today in my case I'm more partial to the obediant side. Reason being I really messed up this week and disobeyed my Mistress! I needed to be somewhere and ended up an hour late and She was absolutly livid. I knew She was really mad when I had to request my own punishment. She accepted my letter of request as adequate. She also thought it a proper idea to create a thread to solicit some ideas for Her punishment. So later this weekend I'll have to start a thread for my punishment come one come all and help with your creativity. But I have one question, would this thread go in the TALK or CHAT room? She will be very happy for everyone to get involved

submissiveknight,

I am sorry to hear of this as I am sure your punishment will not be an enjoyable experience.

As to starting a thread where by to solicit ideas for punishment from others. This would definately go into the CAFE, however if I may a word of caution. Many of these types of threads have been done before and they have meet with a terrible ending where people feelings get hurt. The reason why I say this is because most feel that punishment is something best left as a private matter between the submissive and their dominant. My advice would be to let your Mistress know that this would be seen as reflecting bad on her and on you for taking a matter such as this public.

You might try using the search to find some of the older threads or at the top of this forum is a link to the BDSM library. I believe there is a section in it that deals with punishments and perhaps this will serve to meet your Mistresses needs.

 

[submissiveknight]

Thanks RJ for the quick reply. My Princess appreciates your advice She informed me of the real reason for Her making me post a thread was for the humilation I would suffer. She says "I'm quite capable of issuing my own punishment Thank You." We definately wouldn't want to start something that would be ill-received,We both enjoy this site too much And you are quite right in stating about an unenjoyable experience, She accepted my first letter. Oh btw RJ, my Princess really likes your hat.

 

[A Desert Rose]

In the past, posting threads regarding your misdeeds and the punishment that will be meted out or advice regarding the punishment, have not met a good reception here.

Of course, this will be the one time that everyone will jump on the wagon and give you a warm welcome. People are fickle and most are followers. Good luck.

 

[catalina_francisco]

Unless I have greatly misunderstood Catalina's comments, for example, I believe she views her relationship in just this way. It doesn't work for me, and in fact I know very, very few people who live D/s this way. But that doesn't mean that the dynamic does not exist and it does not mean that it is inappropriate in all situations.

LOL, I have been too preoccupied of late and missing too much of the conversation so imagine my surprise when I saw my name mentioned!! Thought I must have said something on the thread and forgotten....senility and all!! You are right, it is how our relationship is. There is no question of my leaving, but I wouldn´t class it as abuse. I knew what I was gettting into when I volunteered to go that extra step, and he made sure I knew it was not something I could later choose to reverse depending on mood and moment. Consent rules out issues of abuse, and consent was given long ago. He would do whatever it took to prevent me leaving if I was silly enough to ever think I wanted to, but that was what I sought and agreed to, and what gives me both comfort and freedom. It isn´t always easy, and certainly prevents running away from emotions and situations which may become difficult, or not fit the fantasy or hopes that existed, while surprisingly supporting and encouraging working through difficulties and believe it or not, thinking of what is best for each other and the relationship long term. I wouldn´t have it any other way now I know it can be and is real.

Catalina

 

[cumhungry]

IMHO this is an exceptional topic, both in and outside of the sexual arena. i've always been rather confused about where and how i fit in - on the one hand i'm a very strong, capable, finder, fixer, solver, "oh here, just give the damn thing to me....." kind of a gal - and yet all i ever i wanted it seemed was a nice big strong man to come wrap his arms around me, hold me close, give me the "have no fear, underdog is here" speech...........

i love to tote and fetch, but i hate be told what to do. i want to make your every wish come true, but you damn well better acknowledge how wonderful i am at some point. i'll wait on you hand and foot, whatever you need.......but don't say no, and think you can take a rain check later when i'm not in the mood to hop up and fetch you something.

rah-ther a dichotemy, yes? i want him to grab my hair and say suck my dick, bitch..........but i also want to make the first move sometimes and not get rejected. (please ANYTHING but rejection...).

i love having the role of She Who Does All......but dang why can't he figure out how to get the dishes OUT of the dishwasher once in awhile?

we always wait for him to initiate sex. cuz i don't know how, and fear rejection. but IN sex, he slips easily into the submissive, do with me what you will, just don't stop, helium heels mode.

i don't find myself completely comfortable in either "role" - so this thread really helps me "see" the broadness of the spectrum. thanks.

 

[Ebonyfire]

I It also makes me look stupid. For that, I apologize, because I don't really believe I am.

You are never stupid. If others choose to misrepresent your words it is their stupidity, not yours.

 

[Esclava]

At the request of a good friend ...

Just for the record, I voted balanced because I can take orders as well as I can proactively serve. I believe a Dominant and submissive who understand each other and are truly compatible - whose needs and desires are in line with one another's - are destined to walk the same balance. Even those relationships where the Dominant has exclusive and un-usurpable (?) control over everything the submissive does, there is a balance. The Dominant controls everything and the submissive gives up control of everything. So, that balance is what works for them.

IMHO, people are only as happy as they make up their minds to be. If I felt that being in a realtionship that some might consider abusive met my needs and made me happy, I would seek one who could and would meet those needs. That's why there are negotiations - inherent in these discussions are the needs I have to be met and the needs I will be required to meet for the Dominant. If I don't feel safe or feel like I can't meet the Dom/me's needs ... then we're not matched and would be better off continuing our search. If I agree ... we are well matched and all/most of the drama issues would not occur in our lives.

And in living those lives, we will learn each other well enough to know what will be acceptable in terms of proactive service. My guess is, such service will be allowed - or not - according to the whims of the Dom/me (if he/she is deaing honestly in life). That's why submissives have to know what drives them and what needs they have to be met. If subs think they have no needs and only live to serve the needs of whatever Dom/me comes along ... IMO, they're not being honest with themselves.

Esclava

 

[sharezade]

Offering...sort of

HisMajesty has no real use/need/desire for anything I offer. At best, I get a nod...occassionally. He does, however, require absolute obedience. Then I get 2 nods.

Therein lies the rub. To get much more than a nod, I really hafta piss him off...but if I piss him off, then I don't deserve any attention.

Um...which way to the confused and neglected sub space?

 

[submissiveknight]

I would like to clarify something. I was reading thru the thread and I came upon my first post where I said, "I enjoy both serving and obeying my Mistress. I do what I'm suppose to do and what is asked of me by Her." I realized that serving and obeying is the same since servitude is a defintion of obedience, true? This got me to thinking (dangerous thing lol) how did I get this wrong or did I? Did I confuse serving by doing what I'm suppose to do, as (offering service)? Yes,for the reason, if I was suppose to do it I would have once been told to do it! This would not be offering because I am performing this service thru learned behavior. Kind of like after repetetive rituals of service that result in expected behavior thru command generated rules. So how would I offer my Mistress service if my offering was a learned behavior? Wouldn't my offering be self-gratifaction of my own needs to please my Princess. Yes I think it would, but on the same hand my Princess expects me to please Her! So by offering my services to my Mistress I would be fulfilling Her expecatation of me pleasing Her and by obeying I would be fulfilling Her expectation of following Her demands.

 

[shy slave]

HisMajesty has no real use/need/desire for anything I offer. At best, I get a nod...occassionally. He does, however, require absolute obedience. Then I get 2 nods.

Therein lies the rub. To get much more than a nod, I really hafta piss him off...but if I piss him off, then I don't deserve any attention.

Um...which way to the confused and neglected sub space?

I don't really understand this.

If he has no real use/need/desire for you, why are you there and why does he want you there?

Have I misunderstood something?

 

[BeachGurl2]

HisMajesty has no real use/need/desire for anything I offer. At best, I get a nod...occassionally. He does, however, require absolute obedience. Then I get 2 nods.

Therein lies the rub. To get much more than a nod, I really hafta piss him off...but if I piss him off, then I don't deserve any attention.

Um...which way to the confused and neglected sub space?

I'm with Shy here. If someone has no use/need/desire for you, why on earth would you stay there?

Edited: I just read your profile. Is your husband your master?

 

[sharezade]

I'm with Shy here. If someone has no use/need/desire for you, why on earth would you stay there?

Edited: I just read your profile. Is your husband your master?

Bingo! Things were a lot more "fulfilling" before the wedding. Maybe I shouldn'ta chose the ring over the collar, huh?

 

[BeachGurl2]

Bingo! Things were a lot more "fulfilling" before the wedding. Maybe I shouldn'ta chose the ring over the collar, huh?

Mini hijack - sorry, RJ.

It's very hard to comment without knowing more about your specific situation, but I was in a severely emotionally abusive marriage for 10 years before I finally got out. There is a line between D/s and abuse. The question for you is whether or not your relationship crosses that line. Just because someone is dominating doesn't mean they are emotionally healthy about it. And what I consider abuse, you may not. If I were in your situation, I would take a step back and examine exactly what my definitions of D/s are and what I believe to be going beyond that to abuse. If his behavior falls into the abuse category, then that would dictate how I proceeded from there. Until I was ready to truly label my ex's behavior as abusive, I could make excuses for it, both to myself and to others. Once I labeled his behavior as abusive, I had no choice but to get out fast. And I will tell you from experience - life is much more enjoyable alone than with the wrong person! Just my 2 cents. Feel free to PM me if you'd like to chat privately about it.

Okay, mini hijack over. Back to the topic at hand. RJ.