Pink Orchid: Story Event for Women-Centric Erotica - Official Support Thread

[Omenainen]

To everyone who have partaken in the discussion in this thread I want to say: thank you. I didn't want this to be an event for only women, or only lesbians, or only some other anointed special group. Most of the authors here write women, and I wanted to turn the focus on how we do that. Part of that is talking about it, and I hope we can do that without becoming polarized into, say, those who agree with me and those who disagree with me. I appreciate all of you who have shown support, I really do. It's good to know I'm not alone. I also don't feel like I've been unfairly targeted in any way. Just as I thought it would be okay to comment on other's stories, even if it wasn't all positive, I think it's perfectly fine to disagree with me and offer differing opinions. In other words, it's okay for others to be blunt with me, too.

 

[Lifestyle66]

It is not a democracy. I get to decide what my event is and isn't about. Now, it is possible my event description wasn't as descriptive as it could be, and if and when I will host this again next year I will work on that. But the point remains that if you and I disagree on what I meant, it is me who is right.

(Here is a prime example of mansplaining, by the way. This guy asked me to beta read, then when I said this was not what I meant, he said, "oh but I think you just don't understand female empowerment". I don't claim to be an authority on what is and isn't female empowerment, but really, neither is Lifestyle66.)



I quote myself: "Being bossy and bitchy does not equal strong. Behaving like a man does not equal strong. Being oppressive to the point of ignoring consent does not equal strong."

I don't have nothing against characters who are strong from the beginning, the story being about something other than their finding their strength, but I do not think exploiting others makes a character strong. I also don't think sex, or life for that matter, is a zero-sum game where someone always has to lose if someone else is to win. I think of sex positivity as an opposite attitude to that.

That being said, I have now read your published version, and I think the changes you made based on my comments made the story a lot better. I think they changed the tone in a meaningful way. There's still this undercurrent of disrespect I don't like, but I think it reads much more like a pink orchid story now than the first time I read it. So I say, well done! I'm glad we went through this back and forth with you. I think we both benefited from it.

Thanks for reading my published version. And I apologize if my forum comment about my story rating was offensive. I put that in because of something you said in our PMs, when you said my story wasn't suited for you challenge. You said if I chose to post it for the challenge we'd see what the readers think. So, that sentence about the public reaction was my own ego showing, and I should have reigned it in.

It's your "undercurrent of disrespect" I need to better understand. Is it the wife disrespecting her husband or other men? Or is it the husband/other men disrespecting her?

I'm trying to write the stories about this couple who have their strong personalities and sex drives interacting in an overall mutually supportive way. Sometimes one of them benefits more in a particular situation, and other times the other "wins". So, I'm not communicating that mutual respect clearly enough. Theirs is not a win/lose relationship. Their relationship is more of a compromise with "it's your turn this time". I had hoped to show that with "she got what she wanted in the shower and was going to pay him back in bed later." I just need to find the best way to write that give & take into each story.

 

[Omenainen]

Thanks for reading my published version. And I apologize if my forum comment about my story rating was offensive. I put that in because of something you said in our PMs, when you said my story wasn't suited for you challenge. You said if I chose to post it for the challenge we'd see what the readers think. So, that sentence about the public reaction was my own ego showing, and I should have reigned it in.

It's your "undercurrent of disrespect" I need to better understand. Is it the wife disrespecting her husband or other men? Or is it the husband/other men disrespecting her?

I'm trying to write the stories about this couple who have their strong personalities and sex drives interacting in an overall mutually supportive way. Sometimes one of them benefits more in a particular situation, and other times the other "wins". So, I'm not communicating that mutual respect clearly enough. Theirs is not a win/lose relationship. Their relationship is more of a compromise with "it's your turn this time". I had hoped to show that with "she got what she wanted in the shower and was going to pay him back in bed later." I just need to find the best way to write that give & take into each story.

The wife is disrespecting everyone else. It's the attitude of "this is what I want, and fuck anyone else and what they want or what it might mean for them" that I find off-putting, disrespectful and immature. You toned it down well with the edits you made from the first draft, and now there is some of that mutual respect in their relationship coming through. And it feels more like something they both have a hand in orchestrating, and all in all it just reads very differently now. There's still some of that left, but if I'd read it like this to begin with, I don't think I would've noticed or got stuck in them.

To point a few examples, sentences like "My wife had all of these guys by their hard cocks, any way she wanted them, and she knew it" and "And don't fall for other women taking advantage of YOU that way either! ... 'Weaker sex, my ass!" that I find really not sex positive. It makes it all sound like a weapon in some power battle. But, like I said, I think I would've just read past those if this was the first I saw of the story.

 

[Lifestyle66]

The wife is disrespecting everyone else. It's the attitude of "this is what I want, and fuck anyone else and what they want or what it might mean for them" that I find off-putting, disrespectful and immature. You toned it down well with the edits you made from the first draft, and now there is some of that mutual respect in their relationship coming through. And it feels more like something they both have a hand in orchestrating, and all in all it just reads very differently now. There's still some of that left, but if I'd read it like this to begin with, I don't think I would've noticed or got stuck in them.

To point a few examples, sentences like "My wife had all of these guys by their hard cocks, any way she wanted them, and she knew it" and "And don't fall for other women taking advantage of YOU that way either! ... 'Weaker sex, my ass!" that I find really not sex positive. It makes it all sound like a weapon in some power battle. But, like I said, I think I would've just read past those if this was the first I saw of the story.

Thanks for taking the time to explain it. I'll need to work on toning down her "all about ME" attitude. I meant to make her more: "I'm going to have fun. Care to join me?" That's why I changed that shower scene (based on your earlier critique) to her saying "I want to feel someone in me, and you have first choice or move out of the way."

But I think your use of "My wife had all of these guys by their hard cocks, any way she wanted them, and she knew it" as an example of the wife's behavior and attitude is misplaced. That's the husband's observation and is an analysis of the other men in the room. That makes it more about those other men's attitudes and behavior, and not about her attitude.

And as for weaponizing sex as a stripper, I think I pointed that out in the intro when she said "I thought the idea of being a stripper might be fun. Imagine the power of tormenting guys and taking their money, just by getting naked." So, perhaps you see that as a negative, where I see that as more of a positive "in control of her own body and fun". She doesn't see strippers as a shameful or demeaning job, but more of a "take advantage of those guys" job.

 

[SimonDoom]

To point a few examples, sentences like "My wife had all of these guys by their hard cocks, any way she wanted them, and she knew it" and "And don't fall for other women taking advantage of YOU that way either! ... 'Weaker sex, my ass!" that I find really not sex positive. It makes it all sound like a weapon in some power battle. But, like I said, I think I would've just read past those if this was the first I saw of the story.

 

[SimonDoom]

To point a few examples, sentences like "My wife had all of these guys by their hard cocks, any way she wanted them, and she knew it" and "And don't fall for other women taking advantage of YOU that way either! ... 'Weaker sex, my ass!" that I find really not sex positive. It makes it all sound like a weapon in some power battle. But, like I said, I think I would've just read past those if this was the first I saw of the story.

But, to be fair, when you start an event on "female empowerment" like this, you don't get the right strictly to define what constitutes "female empowerment." You are throwing a bottle in the ocean, and you don't know where it's going to go. You're not the umpire or the judge. You're just the instigator. It's an idea, and other authors can take that idea wherever they want to go. That's the way these events SHOULD work. They are seeds, only, and how they sprout and grow depends on the imagination of the authors that choose to water them.

 

[Lifestyle66]

But, to be fair, when you start an event on "female empowerment" like this, you don't get the right strictly to define what constitutes "female empowerment." You are throwing a bottle in the ocean, and you don't know where it's going to go. You're not the umpire or the judge. You're just the instigator. It's an idea, and other authors can take that idea wherever they want to go. That's the way these events SHOULD work. They are seeds, only, and how they sprout and grow depends on the imagination of the authors that choose to water them.

Could it be that my strip club story hits a raw nerve when the wife so blatantly says she has that power over those men when she uses sex?
She says to her son at the end: "So, being naked in front of other people is no big deal. As for respect? Tonight, was about control. I had your friend emptying his wallet for me!"

 

[Omenainen]

But, to be fair, when you start an event on "female empowerment" like this, you don't get the right strictly to define what constitutes "female empowerment." You are throwing a bottle in the ocean, and you don't know where it's going to go. You're not the umpire or the judge. You're just the instigator. It's an idea, and other authors can take that idea wherever they want to go. That's the way these events SHOULD work. They are seeds, only, and how they sprout and grow depends on the imagination of the authors that choose to water them.

That is true. What I say about the topic is my opinion, no more and no less. And in my opinion, "tormenting guys and taking their money" or "taking advantage of those guys" is not sex positive and it does not equal being empowered. That kind of approach is exactly why I put the following sentence in my event announcement: "The aim is not to turn tables and write femdom, male-bashing or revenge stories." To me, empowerment is not about having power over someone else, it's about having power over your own life.

Also, there's nothing wrong with being excited about women dominating men. If that floats your boat, go for it with smile on your lips and pride in your heart. But it was not what I was after when I envisioned this event.

I do not get to define what female empowerment is or is not, but I do get to define what the focus of my own event is. If I will host this again, I will keep this in mind, and try to be more precise in the event announcement. The first thing I will do is drop the mention of "female empowerment", because it has gotten a really over-emphasized focus in so many people's mind.

Live and learn.

 

[NotWise]

But, to be fair, when you start an event on "female empowerment" like this, you don't get the right strictly to define what constitutes "female empowerment." You are throwing a bottle in the ocean, and you don't know where it's going to go. You're not the umpire or the judge. You're just the instigator. It's an idea, and other authors can take that idea wherever they want to go. That's the way these events SHOULD work. They are seeds, only, and how they sprout and grow depends on the imagination of the authors that choose to water them.

"Female empowerment" was one item in a list, not by itself the theme of the event. It's unfortunate that people latched onto that phrase; their interpretation of what "female empowerment" means might have been even more unfortunate. To me, the more important aspects are "Women-centered erotica" in the title of the event and the concepts of women having agency and making sense.

I think O intended to promote a female-friendly kind of story that is hard to find on Lit, and some of the submissions have been well outside the range. Caricatures of women written to titillate a male fantasy don't fit the theme. She has every right to point that out.

In the future, I wonder if it might work to have a "juried" event. Maybe something where every story entered gets published, but a jury (possibly of one) decides which stories fit the theme and will appear on the event page with an icon (for this case maybe a pink orchid) while other stories do not.

 

[Lifestyle66]

That is true. What I say about the topic is my opinion, no more and no less. And in my opinion, "tormenting guys and taking their money" or "taking advantage of those guys" is not sex positive and it does not equal being empowered. That kind of approach is exactly why I put the following sentence in my event announcement: "The aim is not to turn tables and write femdom, male-bashing or revenge stories." To me, empowerment is not about having power over someone else, it's about having power over your own life.

Also, there's nothing wrong with being excited about women dominating men. If that floats your boat, go for it with smile on your lips and pride in your heart. But it was not what I was after when I envisioned this event.

I do not get to define what female empowerment is or is not, but I do get to define what the focus of my own event is. If I will host this again, I will keep this in mind, and try to be more precise in the event announcement. The first thing I will do is drop the mention of "female empowerment", because it has gotten a really over-emphasized focus in so many people's mind.

Live and learn.

I can see now where you found my story a femdom, male-bashing wife.

I just see her differently as making choices and allowing others around her to make their own choices in a fair exchange for all to have fun. "You guys want to touch my pussy? Show me a five-dollar bill, and we have a deal!" The guys get what their little heads want, and she gets the fun she wants, which is really the lust in their eyes. Later, she hands all of that money over to the other strippers, because it was never about the money. It was about using her body to drive the guys crazy! And that is what the guys are all there for.

 

[SimonDoom]

In the future, I wonder if it might work to have a "juried" event. Maybe something where every story entered gets published, but a jury (possibly of one) decides which stories fit the theme and will appear on the event page with an icon (for this case maybe a pink orchid) while other stories do not.

I do not agree with that. The concept of "juries" in my view is totally wrong for erotica. My view is that you throw a pebble into the water and you let the waves go where they may. I'm completely opposed to the notion of regulating things. This is a site for erotica, for letting the imagination run free. O had a great idea for an event. Let whatever happens, happen. The less regulation there is, the more interesting the results will be.

 

[MelissaBaby]

I can see now where you found my story a femdom, male-bashing wife.

I just see her differently as making choices and allowing others around her to make their own choices in a fair exchange for all to have fun. "You guys want to touch my pussy? Show me a five-dollar bill, and we have a deal!" The guys get what their little heads want, and she gets the fun she wants, which is really the lust in their eyes. Later, she hands all of that money over to the other strippers, because it was never about the money. It was about using her body to drive the guys crazy! And that is what the guys are all there for.

I just finished your story, and my take on it is that falls it short of being "woman centered" or about "female empowerment". I think you might have hit closer to the mark if Jan had been the POV character, rather than the husband. I didn't get the impression that she was acting out her own desires, but fulfilling a male fantasy to please her husband.

I'm actually really interested in seeing how male author's approach the subject, and grateful to the guys who took a shot at it.

 

[MelissaBaby]

I can see now where you found my story a femdom, male-bashing wife.

I just see her differently as making choices and allowing others around her to make their own choices in a fair exchange for all to have fun. "You guys want to touch my pussy? Show me a five-dollar bill, and we have a deal!" The guys get what their little heads want, and she gets the fun she wants, which is really the lust in their eyes. Later, she hands all of that money over to the other strippers, because it was never about the money. It was about using her body to drive the guys crazy! And that is what the guys are all there for.

She was working cheap.

 

[Lifestyle66]

"Female empowerment" was one item in a list, not by itself the theme of the event. It's unfortunate that people latched onto that phrase; their interpretation of what "female empowerment" means might have been even more unfortunate. To me, the more important aspects are "Women-centered erotica" in the title of the event and the concepts of women having agency and making sense.

I think O intended to promote a female-friendly kind of story that is hard to find on Lit, and some of the submissions have been well outside the range. Caricatures of women written to titillate a male fantasy don't fit the theme. She has every right to point that out.

In the future, I wonder if it might work to have a "juried" event. Maybe something where every story entered gets published, but a jury (possibly of one) decides which stories fit the theme and will appear on the event page with an icon (for this case maybe a pink orchid) while other stories do not.

I received the following comment on the strip club story:
****
by Ginafrommaine  on 02/04/2022

I liked the story, very hot. One of my fantasies is to be an erotic / exotic dancer at a exclusive gentlemen’s club or for private parties. I think it would have been hot if the son had watched both the stage show and the shower show.
****

And BTW; the story is not a caricature of women but comes from statements like that from Ginafrommaine, other women I know, and from MY WIFE who inspired that story. No, she didn't actually get onstage or go to the shower, but her discussions with those strippers was very real. And had I actually paid to get our son out of the room, I'd say it was probably a greater than 50% chance she would have taken the stage.

So, it's not a caricature that some women DO want to get onstage and DO enjoy sex.

Go to a strip club on "amateur night", and you'll see a dozen women get onstage to put on a show! And they don't work there.

Perhaps if NotWise were on the jury for this Pink Orchid event, my story wouldn't have been allowed due to being judged a caricature. But we all have opinions.

 

[Lifestyle66]

She was working cheap.

As I said, it was never about the money.

My muse for that comes from my wife. She likes to flirt. It's a sporting event to her when she makes suggestive comments or brushes up against a guy and sees him react.

It's like women wearing revealing clothes, dressing provocatively. My wife recognizes that they're in the same game, and even points out other women to me: "Did you see the one in a min-skirt across the street?" "Of course" "In your dreams. You're coming home with me!"

 

[TarnishedPenny]

I do not get to define what female empowerment is or is not, but I do get to define what the focus of my own event is. If I will host this again, I will keep this in mind, and try to be more precise in the event announcement. The first thing I will do is drop the mention of "female empowerment", because it has gotten a really over-emphasized focus in so many people's mind.

Live and learn.

It’s a shame that something as positive as female empowerment seems to have whipped up discord.

I wouldn’t drop it. At most I might define it a bit better, but I’m not even sure that’s necessary, any more than defining ‘beauty’. Everybody has their own vision - maybe it can be left at that.

Anyway, thanks for the event.

 

[NotWise]

Go to a strip club on "amateur night", and you'll see a dozen women get onstage to put on a show! And they don't work there.

Perhaps if NotWise were on the jury for this Pink Orchid event, my story wouldn't have been allowed due to being judged a caricature. But we all have opinions.

Did I single you out somehow?

To the best of my knowledge, there are women who entertain the fantasy of stripping on stage. There are also men who fantasize about their wife stripping on stage. Either of those could be written without writing a caricature.

And to be as clear as possible, your story would be published in the juried event I described. I've only skimmed bits of your story, and that isn't enough to tell me whether it's consistent with the theme or not.

 

[MelissaBaby]

As I said, it was never about the money.

My muse for that comes from my wife. She likes to flirt. It's a sporting event to her when she makes suggestive comments or brushes up against a guy and sees him react.

It's like women wearing revealing clothes, dressing provocatively. My wife recognizes that they're in the same game, and even points out other women to me: "Did you see the one in a min-skirt across the street?" "Of course" "In your dreams. You're coming home with me!"

Well, yeah, that's my point. Her motivation seems to be HIS titillation, not her own fulfillment.

The thing about her working cheap was a joke.

 

[Lifestyle66]

I just finished your story, and my take on it is that falls it short of being "woman centered" or about "female empowerment". I think you might have hit closer to the mark if Jan had been the POV character, rather than the husband. I didn't get the impression that she was acting out her own desires, but fulfilling a male fantasy to please her husband.

I'm actually really interested in seeing how male author's approach the subject, and grateful to the guys who took a shot at it.

I prefer to write from the husband's POV, because I'm not a writer, I'm a geek. So, by writing from that geek husband's POV, I can easily write my own dialog and describe what I might see. But the stories are mostly about his view of his wife and her having fun enjoying life.

If I tried writing from the wife's POV, it would definitely come across as mansplaining and artificial.

 

[Lifestyle66]

Well, yeah, that's my point. Her motivation seems to be HIS titillation, not her own fulfillment.

The thing about her working cheap was a joke.

I think you missed it.

Her motivation is "she likes to flirt." This was her taking it to a new level.


Ah ha! That's where my story missed the mark! I failed to clearly show her motivation with her flirting.
Thank you, Melissa for dragging that out of me.

 

[MelissaBaby]

I think you missed it.

Her motivation is "she likes to flirt." This was her taking it to a new level.


Ah ha! That's where my story missed the mark! I failed to clearly show her motivation with her flirting.
Thank you, Melissa for dragging that out of me.

You're welcome.

The question is "Why does she like to flirt?" If it had been more clear that it turned her on, and wasn't just because it was a way to turn her husband on, you'd have had a much stronger story.

You might want to consider taking another shot at it, from her perspective, outside the parameters of a challenge. You say that you're not a writer, well, I wasn't a writer until I became one, if you know what I mean. You only get better by trying.

 

[Lifestyle66]

You're welcome.

The question is "Why does she like to flirt?" If it had been more clear that it turned her on, and wasn't just because it was a way to turn her husband on, you'd have had a much stronger story.

You might want to consider taking another shot at it, from her perspective, outside the parameters of a challenge. You say that you're not a writer, well, I wasn't a writer until I became one, if you know what I mean. You only get better by trying.

I did put a part earlier in the hotel room about her dressing and enjoying turning guys on:
"You're looking sexy. Who are you hoping to catch tonight?"

"I already caught you. But there might be some handsome college guys looking for a MILF. And it's not like our kids haven't seen me dress this way before. Who do you think taught our daughter how to dress to catch her husband? So, I'll give the waiters some eye candy."

"You dress like that for the attention."

"I obviously caught your attention," she said as she looked down at my pants.


I just didn't spell it out well enough that she enjoys turning guys on. I think I got too close to the characters and assumed too much from other stories where I've explained flirting is a sport of hers.

 

[Lifestyle66]

You're welcome.

The question is "Why does she like to flirt?" If it had been more clear that it turned her on, and wasn't just because it was a way to turn her husband on, you'd have had a much stronger story.

You might want to consider taking another shot at it, from her perspective, outside the parameters of a challenge. You say that you're not a writer, well, I wasn't a writer until I became one, if you know what I mean. You only get better by trying.

Did you read my 750-word story I also tagged for Pink Orchid: "A Different Proposition -750 Words"?

If you think the strip club missed the mark, that one will likely make your head explode.

 

[ElectricBlue]

I do not agree with that. The concept of "juries" in my view is totally wrong for erotica. My view is that you throw a pebble into the water and you let the waves go where they may. I'm completely opposed to the notion of regulating things. This is a site for erotica, for letting the imagination run free. O had a great idea for an event. Let whatever happens, happen. The less regulation there is, the more interesting the results will be.

Agree this.

Anyway, Lit already has the equivalent of juried events - the Invitationals, where someone sets themselves up as an arbiter over who is and who isn't acceptable, using some criteria or other. The same could apply for content, I guess, but it would become a self-eating watermelon pretty quickly.

 

[NotWise]

Agree this.

Anyway, Lit already has the equivalent of juried events - the Invitationals, where someone sets themselves up as an arbiter over who is and who isn't acceptable, using some criteria or other. The same could apply for content, I guess, but it would become a self-eating watermelon pretty quickly.

I think you and Simon both missed what I said. As I described it: anyone could participate; any story submitted to the event would be published subject only to Laurel's approval; any story submitted to the event would appear on the event's page.

The only thing the jury would do is place an icon on the event page to indicate whether the story met the event theme.