Pink Orchid: Story Event for Women-Centric Erotica - Official Support Thread

[ElectricBlue]

The only thing the jury would do is place an icon on the event page to indicate whether the story met the event theme.

The subtlety, though, would be: who decides "the story meets the event's theme"?

Which is the place Omenainen has found herself in, in this thread.

My point was more, you could set tighter rules if you wanted to, including some kind of story screening if you wanted to do that, by making the event something like an Invitational rather than "anyone can enter". Making it "anyone can enter" does, I think, imply "no rules" - in the sense of no arbitration, at least.

"Juried events", in a writers' sense, brings with it connotations of judging of some sort, with all the baggage and angst that that might bring. It might work, but would become more exclusive than inclusive, I reckon.

 

[YDB95]

While we're waiting for the page to go up with the list of stories, it finally occurred to me that I could just post my link here:

https://literotica.com/s/no-one-notices-the-hired-help

Feel free to let me know if you feel I lived up to the spirit of the event. I try for all my works to be as feminist as I can make them anyway, but this was the first one where that was the whole point.

 

[NotWise]

My point was more, you could set tighter rules if you wanted to, including some kind of story screening if you wanted to do that, by making the event something like an Invitational rather than "anyone can enter". Making it "anyone can enter" does, I think, imply "no rules" - in the sense of no arbitration, at least.

I'm on record as opposing invitationals because they build and serve cliques.

This is a themed event, so there's already a guideline if not a rule. Ideally, readers visiting the event page should be able to read the linked stories and get the advertised content. We can let writers do what they want and let readers know if they're getting the advertised content by adding an indication of which stories are consistent with the theme. Otherwise, it's "Reader Beware."

"Juried events", in a writers' sense, brings with it connotations of judging of some sort, with all the baggage and angst that that might bring. It might work, but would become more exclusive than inclusive, I reckon.

A juried event in that sense is off the table. Laurel determines what is published, and judging is done by the readers.

 

[MelissaBaby]

I'm on record as opposing invitationals because they build and serve cliques.

I am with you on that. If people want to organize them for themselves and their friends, fine, but I don't think the site should promote and put a stamp of approval on them.

A while back, there was an invitational for romance writers. At the time, I had more than twenty stories on the Romance All Time Top List, and had just won a Reader's Choice award in that category. I wasn't invited. I wasn't in the organizer's clique. OK, maybe the organizer doesn't know me, or does and doesn't like me, and I can live with that. But that the site condones that sort of thing, well, that stings.

 

[ManitowocMike]

I joke a lot, but this is a serious question.

Is a light bdsm (really just dominance and submission) story between two women "empowering?" Is it "empowering" to one but not the other? Do the two cancel each other out? Is the fact that one woman is submissive to the other a "net negative?"

Personally, I know a lot of women who feel "empowered" by submission. Meaning submission to someone who cares about them and takes charge so they can enjoy what is being done to and for them. Submission doesn't mean degradation. Most of these women that I know are bi-sexual, so it certainly doesn't mean misogyny.

I know a lot of strippers and I've never looked down on them. How could I, the stage is raised? I've set down, and shot the shit with 'em since I was... It's Lit, so we'll say 18. Lotsa them were, or started when they were 18. It's a job. Cleaning public toilets for minimum wage, that is degrading. Choosing between letting your boss at the grocery store fondle your melons or quitting is degrading. Having a brain but being babysat and socially promoted instead of educated leads to a lot of being degraded.

Most of the gals I've known in that line of work understood how to make themselves desirable and earn a good living. Well, a good living considering we were all living in a slum with little education, and maybe, if we were lucky, a diploma or degree everyone looked at as being worthless.

 

[ManitowocMike]

I am with you on that. If people want to organize them for themselves and their friends, fine, but I don't think the site should promote and put a stamp of approval on them.

A while back, there was an invitational for romance writers. At the time, I had more than twenty stories on the Romance All Time Top List, and had just won a Reader's Choice award in that category. I wasn't invited. I wasn't in the organizer's clique. OK, maybe the organizer doesn't know me, or does and doesn't like me, and I can live with that. But that the site condones that sort of thing, well, that stings.

It's people-- as my Belarusian girlfriend used to say to me "People, they are the worst..."

The state decided to merge the local tax-supported community college districts. One of which a different girlfriend worked for. A panel of five middle seniority instructors was chosen to formulate the plan to integrate them. Neither my friend who had taught there for a decade, nor anyone she knew understood the complex and bizarre "point system" they came up with that rewarded odd criterion.

Until a year later, when the five plan makers-- who had far less seniority than dozens of others-- became the new heads of the English, Math, Science, History, and Language departments in the merged districts.

 

[NotWise]

I joke a lot, but this is a serious question.

Is a light bdsm (really just dominance and submission) story between two women "empowering?" Is it "empowering" to one but not the other? Do the two cancel each other out? Is the fact that one woman is submissive to the other a "net negative?"

I expect O will be around in a few hours, but I'll put my two bits in now.

The nature of the sex doesn't determine whether the woman/women in the story are empowered. Empowerment is a state of mind. For the sake of fiction, whether or not they're empowered depends on how they and their motives are characterized.

You might be over-emphasizing empowerment. O described the theme with a lot of other elements, including women-centric, sex-positive, making sense, and giving women agency.

 

[ElectricBlue]

I am with you on that. If people want to organize them for themselves and their friends, fine, but I don't think the site should promote and put a stamp of approval on them.

A while back, there was an invitational for romance writers. At the time, I had more than twenty stories on the Romance All Time Top List, and had just won a Reader's Choice award in that category. I wasn't invited. I wasn't in the organizer's clique. OK, maybe the organizer doesn't know me, or does and doesn't like me, and I can live with that. But that the site condones that sort of thing, well, that stings.

Copy this, and totally agree. Similar to you, my only engagement with an Invitational left me with a very bad taste in my mouth, caused a rupture with a long-time colleague (since recovered, but still...). I don't think Lit should promote them as "site events", because they're blatantly not.

 

[SisterJezabel]

Well, Toxic is live. I'm guessing it will be divisive and am not expecting high scores or anything, but I hope it might at least make some people think.

Mansplaining, or corrective dysfunction, is a huge issue for women. I appreciate the men who have been able to sit back and reflect on their responses to the challenge and think about their attitudes and behaviours towards women and equality.

 

[SisterJezabel]

I did put a part earlier in the hotel room about her dressing and enjoying turning guys on:
"You're looking sexy. Who are you hoping to catch tonight?"

"I already caught you. But there might be some handsome college guys looking for a MILF. And it's not like our kids haven't seen me dress this way before. Who do you think taught our daughter how to dress to catch her husband? So, I'll give the waiters some eye candy."

"You dress like that for the attention."

"I obviously caught your attention," she said as she looked down at my pants.


I just didn't spell it out well enough that she enjoys turning guys on. I think I got too close to the characters and assumed too much from other stories where I've explained flirting is a sport of hers.

Look, there's nothing inherently wrong with this, but it is focussing on the male gaze and not on female empowerment. In this example, she is only empowered by the reaction of men. This is what the issue is. Women shouldn't need men to heed power in order to gain empowerment. That is not equality.

 

[SisterJezabel]

I am with you on that. If people want to organize them for themselves and their friends, fine, but I don't think the site should promote and put a stamp of approval on them.

A while back, there was an invitational for romance writers. At the time, I had more than twenty stories on the Romance All Time Top List, and had just won a Reader's Choice award in that category. I wasn't invited. I wasn't in the organizer's clique. OK, maybe the organizer doesn't know me, or does and doesn't like me, and I can live with that. But that the site condones that sort of thing, well, that stings.

Don't stress- I was uninvited to participate in one recently! LOL!

 

[SisterJezabel]

I joke a lot, but this is a serious question.

Is a light bdsm (really just dominance and submission) story between two women "empowering?" Is it "empowering" to one but not the other? Do the two cancel each other out? Is the fact that one woman is submissive to the other a "net negative?"

It depends. If a story can focus on hard and soft limits, use of safe words and aftercare then there's no reason it shouldn't be seen as an empowering act. If, however, it is a dom/domme telling a sub how it's going to go and like it or leave it kind of thing, then no. As I stated in my story for this event, safe, sane, and consentual. They need to be the three-word mantra for BDSM in my book, not that I'm an expert, but I've done a lot of reading on the matter.

 

[Kumquatqueen]

It depends. If a story can focus on hard and soft limits, use of safe words and aftercare then there's no reason it shouldn't be seen as an empowering act. If, however, it is a dom/domme telling a sub how it's going to go and like it or leave it kind of thing, then no. As I stated in my story for this event, safe, sane, and consentual. They need to be the three-word mantra for BDSM in my book, not that I'm an expert, but I've done a lot of reading on the matter.

I don't think the SM itself needs to necessarily be empowering or not - if the characters are treated like people and the communication is intended to respect the woman as a person, then I'd rate the story as woman-positive. I'd also argue that much BDSM can't be 100% safe and sanity is a construct often used against women anyway, so I prefer the acronym RACK (risk-aware consensual kink) to take those points into account.

Someone mentioned upthread that cleaning toilets is degrading but stripping doesn't have to be - I'd like to know why cleaning toilets should be any more degrading than any other job. I can see how it could become degrading - people leaving the place in a state deliberately for the cleaner to have to fix - but not inherently so. Many situations are only degrading or humiliating or embarassing because of the judgement of others. Remove that judgement, specifying its removal if it's likely to be assumed by a reader, and you have yourself a more equal story.

But we've all met decent people who use outdated or offensive terms, and others who manage to say all the right things yet are still total arseholes.

 

[Lifestyle66]

Look, there's nothing inherently wrong with this, but it is focussing on the male gaze and not on female empowerment. In this example, she is only empowered by the reaction of men. This is what the issue is. Women shouldn't need men to heed power in order to gain empowerment. That is not equality.

Look, there's nothing inherently wrong with this, but it is focussing on the male gaze and not on female empowerment. In this example, she is only empowered by the reaction of men. This is what the issue is. Women shouldn't need men to heed power in order to gain empowerment. That is not equality.

I'm reading your story 'Toxic", and I finding the same issues I've seen with others. It seems some people believe men must change to empower women to be equals. THAT is a fundamental problem with feminists like my first wife ... "Those men won't listen to me!" I would reply: "What did you expect? They're men, and we don't listen to anyone, even each other."

If men must change to give you want you want, then men control you and they always will.

I prefer the character I build in my female protagonist. She recognizes that men are men and always will be, and she TAKES control of them. Flirting is a hobby and sporting event to her in social situations, because she sees it as using her sex to enjoy the control she can take over the men. At work or other non-social interactions, my second wife (non-feminist) merely demands the men comply with her instructions. "This is NOT negotiable! Get on board with my plan or get out!"

There is no equality to my second wife. She knows men are different, and she LIKES being a woman to use them!

Me: "Here, let me explain how I opened that."
Wife: "T.M.I. I like my way better. It's easier."
Me: "You mean to hand it to me to do it for you."
Wife: "You're learning!"

In my strip Club story, you see her attitude when the husband observes: "She has those men by their hard cocks and can take them anyway she wants, and she knows it."

 

[SisterJezabel]

I'm reading your story 'Toxic", and I finding the same issues I've seen with others. It seems some people believe men must change to empower women to be equals. THAT is a fundamental problem with feminists like my first wife ... "Those men won't listen to me!" I would reply: "What did you expect? They're men, and we don't listen to anyone, even each other."

At least we agree on how crap most men are. Common ground and all...

 

[MelissaBaby]

My story is not showing up in the tags yet, but here it is:

Oyster River

 

[NotWise]

My story is not showing up in the tags yet, but here it is:

Oyster River

The tags seem to update mid-morning after a story goes live.

 

[ManitowocMike]

Someone mentioned upthread that cleaning toilets is degrading but stripping doesn't have to be - I'd like to know why cleaning toilets should be any more degrading than any other job. I can see how it could become degrading - people leaving the place in a state deliberately for the cleaner to have to fix - but not inherently so. Many situations are only degrading or humiliating or embarassing because of the judgement of others. Remove that judgement, specifying its removal if it's likely to be assumed by a reader, and you have yourself a more equal story.

But we've all met decent people who use outdated or offensive terms, and others who manage to say all the right things yet are still total arseholes.

I made the cleaning toilets analogy. You are far more eloquent than I am.

"I'd like to know why cleaning toilets should be any more degrading than any other job."

To me it isn't and that was the point I was trying to make, they are all jobs. People say you should find a job you enjoy, and that's a nice idea, but we don't all have that option all of the time. Earning money to survive, and maybe finance what can make us less unhappy comes first.

"I can see how it could become degrading - people leaving the place in a state deliberately for the cleaner to have to fix - but not inherently so."

I've spent a lot of time in restaurants and I see this often. Where people just slightly higher up the food chain-- and its usually just a notch or two-- make their unhappy lives a bit more tolerable than they were by visiting their frustration on others. They can't do it to a customer or the boss, so pity the poor buss boy or dishwasher.

"Many situations are only degrading or humiliating or embarassing because of the judgement of others."

It works the other way too. Fiona (pseudonym, real friend) was shy, hiding in the corners and shadows so nobody would see her or notice a learning disability. It worked, although when you are being actively ignored Clark Kent's eyeglasses are an effective disguise. She was socially awkward until she started stripping. At which point in time she blossomed, because she was getting positive feedback for maybe the first time in her life.

"But we've all met decent people who use outdated or offensive terms, and others who manage to say all the right things yet are still total arseholes."

My mother taught me to respect people, and I do. But I don't much care for "rules." Growing up, the only time that anyone in authority ever quoted or followed a rule was to disadvantage one person or group of people over another. Every rule was enforced in an arbitrary and capricious manner. Every normal human activity was banned, then the restriction was used to give the win to the person who crossed the finish line fourth.

I knew a lot of good people like the character Fyvush Finkel played-- a crotchety old Jewish teacher in a public school-- who was assailed and eventually forced to retire because he was trying to get "you young n****** to learn. Aspire to something. like getting out of the ghetto." That word was the only semi-offensive thing about the character.

'Course they say it's okay (or not) for n****** to call each other n******. 'Cause if it is allowed it can be a weapon-- it's demeaning by proxy. And if its forbidden then the rule can be selectively enforced to disadvantage those whom authority does not favor. (Just as by categorizing an underage rape victim's story as obscene when the victim tells it. The facts are quashed.)

-Mike

 

[ManitowocMike]

I don't think the SM itself needs to necessarily be empowering or not - if the characters are treated like people and the communication is intended to respect the woman as a person, then I'd rate the story as woman-positive. I'd also argue that much BDSM can't be 100% safe and sanity is a construct often used against women anyway, so I prefer the acronym RACK (risk-aware consensual kink) to take those points into account.

I'm just Mike S. Goti (Mike Some Guy On The Internet) and I haven't run the best known erotic literature website around for neigh on a quarter-century so my opinion and $5.00 gets you a deluxe coffee at the Caribou. (Tip: Coffee's only $4.65 if you don't share my accumulated wisdom.)

I aint gonna shame anyone for their kink or lifestyle. Aint my place.
(But if you are into scat, I'm sure you'll understand if I don't shake your hand or come over for supper.)

I see nothing erotic in non-consent and don't personally differentiate it from rape.

I need to parse BDSM into bondage and discipline...
And I don't consider a little warm-up spanking to be BDSM-- I know a lot of women who for whatever reason enjoy this.
My buddy Dale (pseudonym)... His wife likes to be tied up (I know because SHE told me)... You know, that's neither a turn-on or turn-off for me.
Discipline, OTOH, is a turn-off. Not interested in imposing it, and I won't tolerate it being imposed on me.

Dominance and submission...
I have a dominant personality. I think people who truly have dominant personalities don't need to prove anything to others. Dwyane Wade doesn't stop at every basketball court he sees and sink a three-pointer to show he can. I dig women who enjoy letting me drive-- and plenty of them will tell me just exactly where they want the Mikemobile to be when the get off, uh out.

Sadism...
Yeah, no.

And Masochism...
Pain as a consequence of strenuous activity I understand. I've learned to integrate and master pain so I can continue, I know a lot of sexual submissives who have done this as well (Dale's wife is one).

A lot of the SSC and RACK protocol seems to me like it's the brainchild of a Madison Avenue lawyer to make sure his Wall Street and Chelsea clients don't sue one another after having anonymous sex together at some club in some basement in Hell's Kitchen. Maybe a better idea would be to get to know each other and figure out what their mutual kinks were. But to each their own as long as they don't try to impose their kinks (and signing consent forms before screwing is a kink) on others.

-Mike

 

[Omenainen]

The only thing the jury would do is place an icon on the event page to indicate whether the story met the event theme.

Yes and no. I do share the pain of thinking that some random reader opens the event list, stumbles onto one of the stories that misses the mark by a mile, and goes “WTF? Is this what constitutes as women-centric around here?”

But who would be granting the orchids? Me? Is there really any additional value in “Omenainen liked this” badge?

The subtlety, though, would be: who decides "the story meets the event's theme"?

Which is the place Omenainen has found herself in, in this thread.

My point was more, you could set tighter rules if you wanted to, including some kind of story screening if you wanted to do that, by making the event something like an Invitational rather than "anyone can enter". Making it "anyone can enter" does, I think, imply "no rules" - in the sense of no arbitration, at least.

"Juried events", in a writers' sense, brings with it connotations of judging of some sort, with all the baggage and angst that that might bring. It might work, but would become more exclusive than inclusive, I reckon.

I’m against invitational events for the same reasons (I think) everyone else is. I don’t know every author, how would I know who to invite? I definitely wanted to be more inclusive than exclusive.

On the other hand, I do know what I had in mind when I decided to host this event. In that sense I don’t quite agree with this “just cast a pebble into the water and let ripples go where they may”. That’s why I offered to beta read for anyone who wanted me to, to offer my view on aspiring event stories.

I also thought I’d read all the entries and comment on how I think they met the event themes, but for that I’ve been told off

To summarize my approach, I am interested in the event stories. I am offering my input both before publishing and after. I think it would be weird to ask for certain type of stories and then not care what turns up.

I joke a lot, but this is a serious question.

Is a light bdsm (really just dominance and submission) story between two women "empowering?" Is it "empowering" to one but not the other? Do the two cancel each other out? Is the fact that one woman is submissive to the other a "net negative?"

I expect O will be around in a few hours, but I'll put my two bits in now.

The nature of the sex doesn't determine whether the woman/women in the story are empowered. Empowerment is a state of mind. For the sake of fiction, whether or not they're empowered depends on how they and their motives are characterized.

You might be over-emphasizing empowerment. O described the theme with a lot of other elements, including women-centric, sex-positive, making sense, and giving women agency.

NotWise answered this for me already. Content-wise I think the only story that can’t be written to meet the event criteria would be stories where there are no female characters. There is no kink that can’t be written so that female characters have agency and make sense.

It’s not about content, it’s about tone and characterization. That has also been one of the more entertaining aspects of this event, I’ve gotten to read a few good stories in categories I don’t follow otherwise.

 

[ManitowocMike]

I was five or six when I learned that one can rarely use the words "all" and "every" in a sentance about people and be accurate.

All men, women, transpeople; people of a particular melanin content; linguistic, political, or religious background; national or regional origin; or sexual orientation and kink profile are not interchangeable.

Personally, I quite often do not see eye to eye with the sycophants who presume to speak for me.

 

[stickygirl]

I may have missed something when I posted my Orchid story, but the submission page is kinda thin on detail. Yes, we needed to add the Orchid name in the submission but once done, the stories get swallowed up into whatever category we chose - ie Romance, Mature etc. Maybe if there was a 'Challenge' or 'Contest' option as well then it would be easier to organise them.

If all the stories were listed under a Pink Orchid challenge first and then divided into Romance etc then it would be easier for readers to find them. Additionally it would allow for an explanation of the challenge in a heading.

If readers were able to see the guidelines, they could then judge for themselves if they felt it met the criteria. As things stand we're policing it amongst ourselves, which is clearly causing acrimony.

Maybe there is some way to search for a specific challenge, but do readers even know to look?! The old search facility sucked and I've not tried the new version, so maybe I'm missing a link? Why make it hard for readers - the idea is to make it easy or else they'll flit off some place else.

I just tried the PO link from the site's home page and it sucks... here's where you end up
https://www.literotica.com/stories/memberpage.php?uid=81387&page=submissions

 

[ManitowocMike]

Content-wise I think the only story that can’t be written to meet the event criteria would be stories where there are no female characters...

It’s not about content, it’s about tone and characterization...

Hmm... A female-centric story without any female characters. I have two ideas... Each would probably not be over 750 words.

One would probably violate the religion / politics prohibition here. A discussion between God and a really bored Adam in the Garden of Eden.

The other (probably an entry for the Non-Erotic category) would be a period piece taking place during the Klondike (ca. 1896-1900) or Yukon Gold Rushes (ca. 1904-1912). Several well heeled miners, all male, get together to try and attract women to move to their wilderness community. How do they make that particular place desirable.

A close third, but likely unacceptable due to ages involved-- even without sexual content-- might be a single character* story of young male's attempt to get his first girlfriend to notice him.

* Since it's focused on one specific woman, this woman may be considered a character in the story.
Like the time I played the part of Godot in my college's dramatic production of 'Waiting for Godot.'
I also played "Big Jim" Dwyer in 'Body of an American.'

 

[ManitowocMike]

The old search facility sucked...

Yeah, I just went straight to Google, even to find the next chapter of a story.

 

[NotWise]

Those ideas all sound very male-centric to me.

That said, my story did have a fairly long dinner conversation with two men talking about the FMC. There were no women in the scene. Even the server was a guy. It was intended to set up the conflicts around the woman.