President Trump will be re-elected in 2020 and this is why...

[Fuzzy1975]

What do you mean by "see through those claims"?

Are you suggesting that the facts PC stated are wrong?

The economic data seems correct, who gets credit for it though, is another matter.

Country economies are like huge ships. When you turn the rudder, it takes a while for the bow of the ship to react.

Obama spent 4 years ( along with most of the other G7 nations) trying to fix the 2008 economic melt down. So by 2012, the word was back on positive ground.

Obama left office in 2016, his finger prints are all over your current economy. Donald Trumps economy will now last through till 2022, maybe longer, even if he died today.

His Tax cuts, through fuel onto an already growing economy, but to say he is responsible for it all, is pretty far fetched. Lets see how the next few years play out, then you will all know for sure.

If you claim all economic credit starts for Trump in 2016, then IF the economy tanks in 2020, as many economists are currently forecasting, well then Trump will have to own that as well, correct?

 

[icanhelp1]

The economic data seems correct, who gets credit for it though, is another matter.

Country economies are like huge ships. When you turn the rudder, it takes a while for the bow of the ship to react.

Obama spent 4 years ( along with most of the other G7 nations) trying to fix the 2008 economic melt down. So by 2012, the word was back on positive ground.

Obama left office in 2016, his finger prints are all over your current economy. Donald Trumps economy will now last through till 2022, maybe longer, even if he died today.

His Tax cuts, through fuel onto an already growing economy, but to say he is responsible for it all, is pretty far fetched. Lets see how the next few years play out, then you will all know for sure.

If you claim all economic credit starts for Trump in 2016, then IF the economy tanks in 2020, as many economists are currently forecasting, well then Trump will have to own that as well, correct?

First; we have to put the causes and blame for the great recession and banking crisis where it belongs. We can start with parts the Gramm Rudman act of 1987 which initiated the use of derivatives by banks followed up by Clinton's repeal of the Glass-Steagall act which allowed commercial and investment banks to exchange business dealings. That brought on to the stage credit default swaps and excessive use derivatives whereby banks were hedging their own mortgage securities, hence the sub-prime mortgage debacle, oversimplified, but to lay all the blame for the banking crisis at the foot of the Bush admins is incorrect. Bush signed into law TARP and the Emergency Economic Stabilization Act, not Obama. That gave Obama 700 billion to play with. Very complicated.

 

[Fuzzy1975]

First; we have to put the causes and blame for the great recession and banking crisis where it belongs. We can start with parts the Gramm Rudman act of 1987 which initiated the use of derivatives by banks followed up by Clinton's repeal of the Glass-Steagall act which allowed commercial and investment banks to exchange business dealings. That brought on to the stage credit default swaps and excessive use derivatives whereby banks were hedging their own mortgage securities, hence the sub-prime mortgage debacle, oversimplified, but to lay all the blame for the banking crisis at the foot of the Bush admins is incorrect. Bush signed into law TARP and the Emergency Economic Stabilization Act, not Obama. That gave Obama 700 billion to play with. Very complicated.

Thanks for the how they got there. ( note I never mentioned Bush et al) no do I even care how the recession started (note: Canada was the only G7 country not to have banking issues, btw), my post was about the inertia of an economy.

Other's can jump in and go down that road as far as they want in the blame game. You are right, it took a few policies to get that point in time, and no one person was solely to blame.

However it would be nice not to hijack my point on Economic Inertia. TYVM

 

[icanhelp1]

Thanks for the how they got there. ( note I never mentioned Bush et al) no do I even care how the recession started (note: Canada was the only G7 country not to have banking issues, btw), my post was about the inertia of an economy.

Other's can jump in and go down that road as far as they want in the blame game. You are right, it took a few policies to get that point in time, and no one person was solely to blame.

However it would be nice not to hijack my point on Economic Inertia. TYVM

Tarp and Emergency relief act is the beginning of your so-called economic inertia. My point is you only mentioned Obama in this forward progress when Bush was actually at the leading edge. I wasn't hijacking, just lending a little clarity.

 

[PrincepsCyberius]

What do you mean by "see through those claims"?

Are you suggesting that the facts PC stated are wrong?

phrodeau won't reply. His intellectual cowardice is well established.

And please don't call me "PC." I do talk that way, out of courtesy for those who care, but I reject the general premises underlying the movement, as well as how its used to stifle honest debate.

 

[Tabithablack]

I am a democrat, have always been. In 2016 I was not happy with Hillary, but did the blue no matter who thing.

I'll do it again this year, but with even less enthusiasm as my choices are an aging out of touch dinosaur in Biden or faux leftists Warren, Harris and others who for some reason are doing everything they can to court the far left extremists and alienate the moderate dem majority, even though Warren and Co are in reality moderate dems and always have been

I'm not mentioning Sanders because I think his time has passed and if not, they'll sabotage him in favor of Biden or Warren.

Gabbard and Mayor Pete are actually the most viable, and may be a future ticket, but the Dems no longer want viable candidates who may be able to get some bi-partisan work going again, they want the candidate who is going to say racism and climate change the most times on the debate stage.

But...I will vote for whatever lame candidate they stick us with.

And they will lose.

I am not a Trump supporter, but I also don't suffer from TDS and do enough research to know that despite what legacy media will tell you, he has done some good things economically for this country as well as try to make it a crime to kill gays in countries that still put them to death(Islamic countries which is why the dems and media won't ever mention this good thing) and the first step initiative and other programs benefiting mostly young inner city blacks...so I'm aware the claims of racism and homophobia about him aren't true, at least not to the extent Maddow and company want us to believe.

But even though I know there's been these positive things, I still can't find it in me to vote for him, but I can see how many others will. Mostly because the democrats have lost their minds and become the true party of mindless hate-at least a big portion of their voter block has-so like in 2016 Trump will win, but only because the Democrats have set themselves up to lose

Sad, but true. Only bright spot would be another crushing loss may wake them up to disentangle themselves from the far left and the Omars and AOC's of the party and get back to basic democratic ideals which these days aren't far off from conservative in some ways because of how far the far left has pushed moderates and old school dems.

 

[Fuzzy1975]

so called economic inertia.

No you are hijacking. Defend or dispute, but keep out your irrelevant facts.

 

[Fuzzy1975]

I am a democrat, have always been.



I am not a Trump supporter, but I also don't suffer from TDS and do enough research to know that despite what legacy media will tell you, he has done some good things

Nice to see someone else admit, no one person or party is 100% right or wrong.

 

[icanhelp1]

No you are hijacking. Defend or dispute, but keep out your irrelevant facts.

Don’t flatter yourself. Facts are facts. I didn’t hijack, I added Bush because it’s relevant to our economy’s forward progress. It was the foundation that Obama built his economy on. So my point is, Bush had his fingerprints on the economy as well as Obama and Trump. You can’t say Obama was saving the world without including Bush in the narrative. This isn’t for your consumption it’s for others who read it. Being a public board I’ll add what I want.

 

[Fuzzy1975]

Don’t flatter yourself. Facts are facts. I didn’t hijack, I added Bush because it’s relevant to our economy’s forward progress. It was the foundation that Obama built his economy on. So my point is, Bush had his fingerprints on the economy as well as Obama and Trump. You can’t say Obama was saving the world without including Bush in the narrative. This isn’t for your consumption it’s for others who read it. Being a public board I’ll add what I want.

The point is, this is NOT about YOUR economy!! The point is ABOUT all economies!!

I was just using the US economy as an example, since everyone ( and I will admit you are an exception) seems to only see the economy in direct correlation to whom ever is the President at the time ( again using the US as the example) .

Which is why throwing in all your other irrelevant information,( which I see you still chose to do) is just a waste of space...

 

[Dumpington]

Fuzzy1975 writes: "Obama spent 4 years ( along with most of the other G7 nations) trying to fix the 2008 economic melt down."

President Obama had NO IDEA how to deal with our economy - and so he threw money at it, borrowing an additional $10-TRILLION that we didn't have! This, after Senator Obama had called President Bush "unpatriotic" in 2008 for adding $4-trillion to our debt! Barack was/is a clueless hypocrite, and he remains a pinhead on all matters related to business & jobs-creation!

In recent months, both Barack Obama & Joe Biden have tried to claim credit for the Trump economic boom, but nobody takes them seriously. Obama presided over eight-years of mostly STAGNANT economic growth. His presidency will mostly be remembered for the HUGE LOSSES suffered by Democrats in the U.S. House, Senate, & statewide races nationwide, and ALSO for his presidential executive order allowing transgendered guys into women's restrooms.

PrincepsCyberius writes: "phrodeau won't reply. His intellectual cowardice is well established."

No, he only shows up here to bash President Trump and Trump-supporters. He's kind of like this forum's own Jussie Smollett.

Tabithablack writes: "But...I will vote for whatever lame candidate they stick us with. And they will lose."

I can't argue with any of what you've just written, Tabitha. You've judged things pretty accurately for a Democrat.

 

[Ziggins]

The price of oil is due to spike soon, maybe before the election, definitely before 2024. After the spike, the price will still be higher than now. That slows or shuts down everything, the start of a contraction, or very long depression. Trump prepared for that a tiny bit with tariffs to reduce global trade, but there is much more he can't do in his position: telling people to change their lives and use less energy. Carter tried and was kicked out. Abandoning the suburbs and scrapping most of the cars are drastic changes that the nation won't do until it's shoved off a cliff of fuel availability.

 

[phrodeau]

The price of oil is due to spike soon, maybe before the election, definitely before 2024. After the spike, the price will still be higher than now. That slows or shuts down everything, the start of a contraction, or very long depression. Trump prepared for that a tiny bit with tariffs to reduce global trade, but there is much more he can't do in his position: telling people to change their lives and use less energy. Carter tried and was kicked out. Abandoning the suburbs and scrapping most of the cars are drastic changes that the nation won't do until it's shoved off a cliff of fuel availability.

Not to mention that the condition of our roads and bridges means a huge fuel tax hike in the near future.

 

[BotanyBoy]

Not to mention that the condition of our roads and bridges means a huge fuel tax hike in the near future.

And not a single road or bridge will see a single penny.

 

[Dumpington]

Ziggins writes: "The price of oil is due to spike soon, maybe before the election, definitely before 2024."

President Trump has made America MUCH LESS energy dependent on the rest of the world than we've been for quite some time! Any oil increases will only make us wealthier. Obama and his GREEN ENERGY policies did the exact opposite. Trump is no Jimmy Carter. He knows how to play hardball with our nation's trading partners.

phrodeau writes: "Not to mention that the condition of our roads and bridges means a huge fuel tax hike in the near future."

BotanyBoy writes: "And not a single road or bridge will see a single penny."

President Obama allocated about a trillion-dollars to what he said would involve rebuilding America's infrastructure - it did no such thing! Nearly every cent went to union pension funds to shore up the Democratic Party's base. But even THAT didn't work, as most blue-collar Americans are now supporting President Trump over the corrupt socialist Democratic Party!

 

[phrodeau]

And not a single road or bridge will see a single penny.

Then brace yourself for toll booths every three miles.

 

[Dumpington]

phrodeau writes: "Then brace yourself for toll booths every three miles."

That's the Democratic Party DREAM - tax people NON-STOP everytime they drive their automobiles more than three miles from home!

It was exactly THIRTY-YEARS ago that the Berlin Wall came down, embarrassing socialists worldwide with the reality of just how UNPOPULAR socialism was with those people forced to live under it! East Germany quickly collapsed after the wall fell, followed shortly thereafter by the entire Soviet Union!

For pro-soviet American political progressives, Russia's sudden abandonment of Communism was an unmitigated disaster, as they had for decades been holding up the Soviet “workers’ paradise” as something we should be striving to emulate here in the U.S. - but what was actually revealed was an oppressive group of elites governing impoverished masses who suffered the equality of misery and desperation - and HATED every minute of it!

How quickly we forget! Today's Democratic Party is back to praising socialism as if the Berlin Wall never existed! The GREEN NEW DEAL being pushed by modern socialists would empower government elites to set business goals, discouraging innovation and investment, all the while restricting the choices available to consumers in a free market. Liz Warren and Bernie Sanders' have even proposed “Medicare-for-all” - which would eliminate private enterprise entirely from the health care sector, which represents roughly 20 percent of our economy.

The modern Democratic Party would like to see the Berlin Wall to go back UP again so that they can once again paint life inside socialist dictatorships as "workers' paradises" - and maybe they can even begin to admire Russia again (just like they USED to!)

 

[DawnONight]

phrodeau won't reply. His intellectual cowardice is well established.

You called it. He has posted several times now on the thread but steered clear of my challenge to his vapid post.

I'm not sure what's more disgusting, his cowardice or the fact that he's not ashamed to display it so clearly.

And please don't call me "PC." I do talk that way, out of courtesy for those who care, but I reject the general premises underlying the movement, as well as how its used to stifle honest debate.

Sorry. I'll try to stop, but the irony in those initials for you amuses me.

 

[BotanyBoy]

Then brace yourself for toll booths every three miles.

Again no different than taxes if it's being run/managed by the same corrupt shits who are hoovering up gigantic sums of money and giving people substandard services if any in the first place.

If you go drive around this country you will go through cities and states both blue and red that have overall nice roads and overall terribad roads.

This happens for a variety of reasons.

Until you address the individual reasons as to why all that money isn't doing much of anything, then taxing/tolling for more won't do shit. It's called throwing good money after bad and a one size fits all solution isn't going to fix it. San Francisco California problems just aren't the same as St.Louis Muhzzurah problems....both have shitty roads when there is no reason they should.

 

[Dumpington]

I just read an interesting column by Amie Parnes in The Hill.

She points out that by now, the Democratic Party's 2020 presidential field should be narrowing - but instead it's GROWING! Former New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg has just re-entered the race, and former Massachusetts Governor Deval Patrick is also considering doing so! And, of course, everybody's favorite (2016 Democratic presidential nominee Hillary Clinton) is watching all of this uncertainly from the sidelines and salivating!

“There are still a lot of people out there who believe there isn’t one standout candidate,” said one Democratic strategist who remains undecided because of the lack of appeal among the candidates. “It’s a diverse field but that DOESN'T mean it’s a strong field.”

Progressive Senator Elizabeth Warren (D-MA) has drawn huge crowds on the campaign trail, but her upward trajectory in the race has scared-off moderate Democrats who don't believe she can defeat Trump in a general election. Former Vice President Joe Biden continues to lead in a number of national polls, getting strong support from African-American Democrats - but his shaky performances at several debates have raised questions about whether he’s ready to take on Trump, or if he’s past his prime. Biden turns 77 later this month.

The fact that the top three candidates were within 4 points of one another underscores the sense that it’s anyone’s race, and that some voters are still shopping for a candidate. Democratic strategist Chris Kofinis said the tensions are high because of the desire to defeat Trump, and the nervousness that none of the candidates can do it. Some Democrats “see this lurch to the left among some of the front-runners and they think: ‘This is a recipe to lose,’ ” Kofinis says.

Democratic strategist Brad Bannon adds that: “There’s been a mood swing since the last New York Times survey came out... the drop in Democratic morale accounts for the recent buzz about Clinton, Bloomberg and Patrick.”

“Joe Biden just needs to keep being Joe like at [Monday night’s] town hall,” said Robert Wolf, the Democratic Party mega-donor who has contributed to Biden’s campaign but remains uncommitted. Biden is “the guy red, blue and purple voters respect,” Wolf said. “He doesn’t need to look at who is in front of him nor behind him nor not yet on the field.”

There are plenty of Democrats who DISAGREE with that sentiment, however. “Clearly a lot of people aren’t convinced that he’s the right guy,” the Democratic strategist said. “But no one else really is either.”

 

[Dumpington]

Former President Barack Obama is apparently reading the writing on the wall, and even HE has noticed that his party's sharp lurch to the left is very possibly going to DESTROY any chance the Dems have of defeating President Trump in next year's election! And so last night, speaking in a basement ballroom at Washington’s Mandarin Oriental Hotel, Obama asked his party’s liberal elite to chill out a bit.

“This remains a country that is less revolutionary than it is interested in improvement,” Obama told his audience. “The average American doesn’t think we have to completely tear down the system to remake it.” According to Barack, Americans are conservative, not in ideology, but in temperament.

“Voters, including Democrats, are not driven by the same views that are reflected on certain left-leaning Twitter feeds, or the activist wing of our party,” he warned. “And that’s not a criticism of the activist wing — their job is to poke and prod and text and inspire and motivate. But the candidate’s job, whoever that ends up being, is to get elected.”

Obama clearly believes that the party's elites are pushing forward unelectable candidates, most obviously economic socialists like Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren. The former president didn't mention any of the current candidates by name - but his remarks, delivered onstage next to Stacey Abrams, painted the clearest picture yet of Obama’s view of the upcoming primaries, and of the current direction that his party is taking in the Trump Era. A lot of this is also fueled by the currently-perceived weaknesses in Joe Biden’s campaign that have top Democrat donors increasingly nervous.

 

[DawnONight]

B. Reilly, 'Enthusiastic and determined': Wisconsin GOP activists prep for re-election push of President Trump, Madison.com (Nov. 17, 2019).

 

[Boxlicker101]

Former President Barack Obama is apparently reading the writing on the wall, and even HE has noticed that his party's sharp lurch to the left is very possibly going to DESTROY any chance the Dems have of defeating President Trump in next year's election! And so last night, speaking in a basement ballroom at Washington’s Mandarin Oriental Hotel, Obama asked his party’s liberal elite to chill out a bit.

“This remains a country that is less revolutionary than it is interested in improvement,” Obama told his audience. “The average American doesn’t think we have to completely tear down the system to remake it.” According to Barack, Americans are conservative, not in ideology, but in temperament.

“Voters, including Democrats, are not driven by the same views that are reflected on certain left-leaning Twitter feeds, or the activist wing of our party,” he warned. “And that’s not a criticism of the activist wing — their job is to poke and prod and text and inspire and motivate. But the candidate’s job, whoever that ends up being, is to get elected.”

Obama clearly believes that the party's elites are pushing forward unelectable candidates, most obviously economic socialists like Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren. The former president didn't mention any of the current candidates by name - but his remarks, delivered onstage next to Stacey Abrams, painted the clearest picture yet of Obama’s view of the upcoming primaries, and of the current direction that his party is taking in the Trump Era. A lot of this is also fueled by the currently-perceived weaknesses in Joe Biden’s campaign that have top Democrat donors increasingly nervous.

Periodically, the Dems shoot themselves in the foot. 1972 was one time. 1988 was another and 2020 looks to be another. The GOP does the same kind of thing, such as in 1964, but not as dramatically.

 

[Dumpington]

Boxlicker101 writes: "Periodically, the Dems shoot themselves in the foot. 1972 was one time. 1988 was another and 2020 looks to be another. The GOP does the same kind of thing, such as in 1964, but not as dramatically."

If I may add two MORE Democratic Party landslide presidential defeats not referenced above, please allow me to throw in 1980, when Ronald Reagan won 44 of the 50 states in blowing-away President Jimmy Carter (the Barack Obama of his day) by an electoral college score of 489 to 49, one of the most lopsided losses ever suffered by an incumbent president in our nation's history!

And then, just four years later, the Democrats chose to run former vice president Walter Mondale (just like they might possibly run former vice president Joe Biden THIS time), with President Reagan DESTROYING Mondale is the BIGGEST electoral landslide ever, 525 to 13! Reagan won 49 of the 50 states! No Republican has EVER been beaten that badly!

The Democrats KNOW they don't have the votes to remove Trump from office. They're just hoping that impeaching him might somehow weaken his 2020 landslide somewhat, as even Obama knows that his party's current lurch-to-the-left is going to cost them dearly next November!

 

[DawnONight]

B. Glauber, Marquette Poll shows support for impeachment has slipped in Wisconsin as Trump leads 4 top Democratic rivals, Milwaukee Journal Sentinel (Nov. 20, 2019).