Punishment

[DVS]

I enjoy inflicting pain. I enjoy inflicting both mental and physical torment or punishments. I mix pain with pleasure, to confuse the sub. With the right combination, I eventually let her cum.

I enjoy the control I have over the sub. I enjoy watching her body react...twitch, jerk, or hear her cry out or gasp from the pain. Then, I sooth the affected area, and maybe also stimulate other sensitive areas, to keep her interest where I want it. Then, if I decide...more pain.

So, I will inflict pain. Call it punishment if you want, it is the same act. But, if you call it punishment, it does tend to cause a miscue for those who assume punishement is only for correctoin or discipline. Not where I live. In fact, punishment is a very sexy word and act, when used in certain ways.

 

[chris9]

I enjoy inflicting pain. I enjoy inflicting both mental and physical torment or punishments. I mix pain with pleasure, to confuse the sub. With the right combination, I eventually let her cum.

I enjoy the control I have over the sub. I enjoy watching her body react...twitch, jerk, or hear her cry out or gasp from the pain. Then, I sooth the affected area, and maybe also stimulate other sensitive areas, to keep her interest where I want it. Then, if I decide...more pain.

So, I will inflict pain. Call it punishment if you want, it is the same act. But, if you call it punishment, it does tend to cause a miscue for those who assume punishement is only for correctoin or discipline. Not where I live. In fact, punishment is a very sexy word and act, when used in certain ways.

I understand pain play. If for you punishment belongs there, ok. I have to say it doesn't help me much with my question, though. So I ask something more. (Insatiable for information ) Is the punishment understood as correction/discipline/result for unwanted behaviour of the sub existent in your brand of BDSM?
When you say you enjoy the control you have over the sub, do you exert that control in the instances she gives you the control (like some evenings, not others)? Or (inside of a relationship and an agreement to have it happening that way) do you take that control if she doesn't IN THAT MOMENT willingly give it? How do you enforce it? Would you still consider this as the fun punishment you described above?

 

[chris9]

Punishment in relationships is not for everyone. A lot of people I know would never thrive with that kind of interaction, whereas I need it and it works for me. It is a personal thing, for sure. There is no right or wrong way.

Life happens, emotions happen, mistakes happen, and for us, punishment works, largely because both of us have roots in disciplinary spanking interests and we make that work within our other roles as well. Make no mistake though, the inclusion of punishment or discipline in our relationship does not reflect negatively on my status as her slave. We just have a different dynamic that works for us.

Many people also seem to be under the impression that a physical punishment would not work for a masochist. I never quite understand why people assume that. As I said in an earlier reply, it isn't the physical part of the punishment that impacts me the most, or even that hurts the most...it is knowing I have disappointed her. It is the desire to prevent that from happening again that changes my behaviour...not the spanking or whatever. The spanking is just a ritual. The disappointment is what I try to avoid. I can take a lot of pain and enjoy it very very much, but give it to me in a punishment situation and it hurts in a way I'll never enjoy.

I admire the way it sounds your relationship works. You both seem to complement each other very well.
I understand the concept of using corporal punishment as a ritual, to end the episode of that particular piece of disobedience or whatever the reason for punishment was. It sounds logical that it's the disappointment one wants to avoid, not the punishment, because that reason for modifying behaviour does not work, as can be seen by the number of crimes committed despite punishments by the state.

 

[serijules]

I admire the way it sounds your relationship works. You both seem to complement each other very well.
I understand the concept of using corporal punishment as a ritual, to end the episode of that particular piece of disobedience or whatever the reason for punishment was. It sounds logical that it's the disappointment one wants to avoid, not the punishment, because that reason for modifying behaviour does not work, as can be seen by the number of crimes committed despite punishments by the state.

Yeah, it's too bad criminals often are not affected emotionally by what they have done. Instead of going to jail or some other physical punishment, we'd just shake a finger and say "I'm disappointed in you!" heh...

I'm easily amused this morning.

Anyhow...yes, we do complement each other well. I take her punishments seriously and they truly help me grow into a better submissive/slave. You get out of it what you put into it, really.

 

[Ebonyfire]

In fact, punishment is a very sexy word and act, when used in certain ways.

But that still doesn't change it's definition, does it?


Eb

 

[serijules]

But that still doesn't change it's definition, does it?


Eb

It's fairly common in the BDSM world for words to take on a rather different context then Websters version. Master, Mistress, slave, sadism, masochism, brat....we all used them quite differently than Webster and history do. Punishment and discipline easily could be added to that list as well.

 

[Ebonyfire]

It's fairly common in the BDSM world for words to take on a rather different context then Websters version.

I realize that.

Master, Mistress, slave, sadism, masochism, brat....we all used them quite differently than Webster and history do. Punishment and discipline easily could be added to that list as well.

That is my point. To avoid misunderstandings one must say what is meant to avoid misunderstandings and mindreading.

Eb [And that still does not change its definition]

 

[graceanne]

I actually object to him calling fun spankings 'punishment', cause if I haven't done something bad I don't want to even pretend that I have. Then I feel guilty, even though I didn't do anything. My feeling is he can spank me if he wants, and he doesn't need to make up a reason to do it.

 

[Richard49]

It's fairly common in the BDSM world for words to take on a rather different context then Websters version. Master, Mistress, slave, sadism, masochism, brat....we all used them quite differently than Webster and history do. Punishment and discipline easily could be added to that list as well.

ok
here is where I get flamed again
and go back to my living room and stay

Words have definitions
jargon has it's own defintions

however

punishment is punishment
pain play or whatever is play and not punishment

just as a Dom can be a bottom and toping and bottoming can have
nothing to do with D/s

It is by altering the meaning of words
or worse not caring what words mean
is how we can (perhaps unintentionally)
inflect emotional pain on others

IMHO it is impairitive
that we stick to the defintion of words

 

[catalina_francisco]

Must admit I am also a bit old fashioned in trying to keep definitions clear and not feeling I need to impose my own meaning onto well estabished words and then expect others to understand that when I say the grass is blue I actually mean it is green but I like the word blue because it's cool so have decided to use it to describe every colour in the spectrum. Definitions within an understood range certainly helped me find happiness without having to expain too much or argue why I was saying one thing and meaning another. How can you punish and expect appropriate results if you adopt a meaning of fun play to it?

Catalina

 

[the captians wench]

Lets say that HADN'T been the case though...it is something I would for sure have talked about or shared my need for in advance. It IS a need for me...I would not be happy without that outlet and would have a tough time releasing guilt without the ritual of punishment. I would feel like every mistake I made was a much bigger failure or issue than it was. That's just how my personality works.

.

you know this really made me think. There are a lot of things in my life that I still think about and wish I haddn't done, or done differently or just play over and over again in my mind and feel bad about them. But there isn't a single...crime for lack of a better word, that I have commited against my Master that I relive or think back on, feel guilt about. It's like once he's punished me, or we've talked things out the crime almost disapears from my thought. Not that I keep commiting it because I hadn't learned anything, but more like I don't feel bad about it any more if that makes since. I'd never really thought about that until now.

 

[Ebonyfire]

Must admit I am also a bit old fashioned in trying to keep definitions clear and not feeling I need to impose my own meaning onto well estabished words and then expect others to understand that when I say the grass is blue I actually mean it is green but I like the word blue because it's cool so have decided to use it to describe every colour in the spectrum. Definitions within an understood range certainly helped me find happiness without having to expain too much or argue why I was saying one thing and meaning another. How can you punish and expect appropriate results if you adopt a meaning of fun play to it?

Catalina

I suppose a person could use "attitude adjustment" or any word that strikes their fancy if they want to.

If the two people involved are on the same page, then it's all good. But if we are trying to communicate our own relationships we need to define our own world and not think that everyone else will have the same interpretation.

Eb

 

[serijules]

ok
here is where I get flamed again
and go back to my living room and stay

Words have definitions
jargon has it's own defintions

however

punishment is punishment
pain play or whatever is play and not punishment

just as a Dom can be a bottom and toping and bottoming can have
nothing to do with D/s

It is by altering the meaning of words
or worse not caring what words mean
is how we can (perhaps unintentionally)
inflect emotional pain on others

IMHO it is impairitive
that we stick to the defintion of words

My point was, what may be a punishment or how punishment works in the relationship to one person is not the same way it works for another Richard. Your idea of a slave may be my idea of a wanker wannabe. It doesn't matter what the "definition" of the word is, how a person interperates that definition will NEVER be universal, no matter how much sense it makes to you that it be so.

 

[Subangel]

Pain or pleasure

A clear line should be drawn between Pain play and Punishment. If there is no difference how is the slave to learn? If i do not fear the repurcussions of disobeying and bad behaviour i do not respect my Master. Thats me at least x

 

[Richard49]

My point was, what may be a punishment or how punishment works in the relationship to one person is not the same way it works for another Richard. Your idea of a slave may be my idea of a wanker wannabe. It doesn't matter what the "definition" of the word is, how a person interperates that definition will NEVER be universal, no matter how much sense it makes to you that it be so.

you are ssssssssssssssssooooooooooooooooooooo wrong
when it comes to public communications
and it is beliefs like yours that have diluted and has nearly destroyed
any boundries for who we are ...

I agree that some words ,like slave, have no clear meaning.
IMHO no one in western culture can truly be a willing slave
because of the laws ... that is why I have trouble understanding
Gor

EB makes a good point about a "couple" needing to be on the same page.

How can two people that are just meeting and in early stages
know they are communicating if there are NOT common accepted defintions?

I see so often, as an example, people saying they are submissives
when in relaity they are just bottoms ....

I also agree with Catalina's post... but we have agreed on this isue for sometime

I have been through this on this board to many times.
I consider those that those "that have redefined" the language
of the "me" that i have been for longer than they are old and those that want no defintions ... dangerious and unsafe

 

[Richard49]

A clear line should be drawn between Pain play and Punishment. If there is no difference how is the slave to learn? If i do not fear the repurcussions of disobeying and bad behaviour i do not respect my Master. Thats me at least x

Excellent post

BTW subangle ... my pm box is broke and I perfer not fix it and have it filled with flames ... I can be emailed or one can come by by thread and post

 

[serijules]

you are ssssssssssssssssooooooooooooooooooooo wrong
when it comes to public communications
and it is beliefs like yours that have diluted and has nearly destroyed
any boundries for who we are ...

I agree that some words ,like slave, have no clear meaning.
IMHO no one in western culture can truly be a willing slave
because of the laws ... that is why I have trouble understanding
Gor

EB makes a good point about a "couple" needing to be on the same page.

How can two people that are just meeting and in early stages
know they are communicating if there are NOT common accepted defintions?

I see so often, as an example, people saying they are submissives
when in relaity they are just bottoms ....

I also agree with Catalina's post... but we have agreed on this isue for sometime

I have been through this on this board to many times.
I consider those that those "that have redefined" the language
of the "me" that i have been for longer than they are old and those that want no defintions ... dangerious and unsafe

I can't understand most of what you are saying here so I think I'll bow out of this conversation.

Seems to me half the people in this post are contradicting themselves with every further post made so I'm long lost anyhow. I have no trouble communicating with my partners and never have, so I must be doing something right.

 

[Subangel]

*Blushes*

Thank you Sir. I will keep that in mind, was wonderring why pms werent going through lol x.

 

[Richard49]

I can't understand most of what you are saying here so I think I'll bow out of this conversation.

Seems to me half the people in this post are contradicting themselves with every further post made so I'm long lost anyhow. I have no trouble communicating with my partners and never have, so I must be doing something right.

Well I am pleased you see contradictions
cause I do not ... so you are brighter than I

Bless you that you and whoever have no problem communicating
means you are on the same page

There is a major ... like major major difference between private communications between two that know each other ... and public communications

 

[AngelicAssassin]

I have no trouble communicating with my partners and never have, so I must be doing something right.

And that's the only important thing. i may not agree with you, but if it works, more power to you and yours.

There is a major ... like major major difference between private communications between two that know each other ... and public communications

Agreed, which is why i'll ask you to rephrase the following quote. i'm not flaming. i simply don't get what the hell you're trying to say.

just as a Dom can be a bottom and toping and bottoming can have nothing to do with D/s

 

[serijules]

Well I am pleased you see contradictions
cause I do not ... so you are brighter than I

What the fuck is with all the sarcasm and snottyness? My original comment that you jumped on wasn't even me saying MY opinion, I was just observing how things tend to be! Now all the sudden I am diluting and destroying the boundaries of who you are or some such nonsense.

Cripes. I'm gonna go take a nap. You have me all pissy and snarly now.

 

[chris9]

I actually object to him calling fun spankings 'punishment', cause if I haven't done something bad I don't want to even pretend that I have. Then I feel guilty, even though I didn't do anything. My feeling is he can spank me if he wants, and he doesn't need to make up a reason to do it.

That's exactly how I feel. I haven't even been punished (how could I be without a D/s relationship), but using this word in play takes away some of the fun.

 

[chris9]

you know this really made me think. There are a lot of things in my life that I still think about and wish I haddn't done, or done differently or just play over and over again in my mind and feel bad about them. But there isn't a single...crime for lack of a better word, that I have commited against my Master that I relive or think back on, feel guilt about. It's like once he's punished me, or we've talked things out the crime almost disapears from my thought. Not that I keep commiting it because I hadn't learned anything, but more like I don't feel bad about it any more if that makes since. I'd never really thought about that until now.

Thanks for sharing this, wench. It makes great sense to me. I'm not sure I would function that way, but it sure is a thought to keep in mind.

 

[chris9]

A clear line should be drawn between Pain play and Punishment. If there is no difference how is the slave to learn? If i do not fear the repurcussions of disobeying and bad behaviour i do not respect my Master. Thats me at least x

Do you fear the punishment and that prevents you from doing whatever? Or do you fear making him unhappy?

 

[Subangel]

xxx

Think everyone needs to take a deep breath and calm down. Its just a matter of different opinions, which is a good thing. What a dull existence it would be if everyone was of the same beleives! xxx