Punishment

[chris9]

And now for the rest of the posts here.
Both Chicklet and DVS said that they call pain play punishment. If you agree with this definition or not (And even if it's not for me, it most certainly is used in this context at least in porn, so it's understandable if people take it up into their personal vocab with this understanding. Blame the adult industry.) was not the question.

If you want to continue discussing how words are used, please take it here or to any one of the many places where this has been discussed before.
I'm still wondering what is the 'real' punishment used for, the one that's no fun, the one that's supposed to teach or end the chapter or whatever you use it for. And I just assume that those that call pain play punishment still may have some sort of the 'real' punishment in their relationships. So no matter what they call it, I want to know how they handle this.

 

[Subangel]

xxx

Do you fear the punishment and that prevents you from doing whatever? Or do you fear making him unhappy?

i fear his unhappiness more than anything. I only want to please my Master and have Him proud of his slave. The knowledge that bad behaviour, disobedience etc dissapoints my Master prevents me. His dissapointment in me is my greatest fear and punishment. x

 

[catalina_francisco]

Punishment in our relationship is not something which is taken lightly, therefore not something which happens frequently. Neither of us enjoy it, nor do we seek ways to make it happen. It has to be a fairly serious event to require punishment...lying would be one, though that fortunately has never been required, running away would be another, deliberate disobedience without cause (or what he considers cause), abuse of his property as in myself (that can range from deliberate to accidents which happen through carelessness), cheating (thankfully not an issue), to name just a few. Despite my being a masochist, physical pain is usually used. This is partly because I have huge issues with depression so using psychological means can have unwanted side effects for a long time, physical can also result in psychological because as many have said, there is no desire to displease so when it happens it can trigger depressive episodes.

The pain he inflicts often does not have to be as severe as we would do in a session and yet because of the circumstances heightening the senses, especially emotions, it is far from pleasureable and more painful than usual...if on the rare occasion that does not happen, he just ups the heat until it is definately past what I could dismiss lightly or enjoy. If he wants to give pain which is not punishment, but for his pleasure alone, or meant to include mine also, he does not have to dress it up in pretence of being punishment...there have been many occasions my body has been used to relieve stress and tension he is experiencing.

Catalina

 

[Ebonyfire]

I can't understand most of what you are saying here so I think I'll bow out of this conversation.

Seems to me half the people in this post are contradicting themselves with every further post made so I'm long lost anyhow. I have no trouble communicating with my partners and never have, so I must be doing something right.

Hey I am just stirring the pot.

Eb

 

[Ebonyfire]

If you want to continue discussing how words are used, please take it here or to any one of the many places where this has been discussed before.

I know I will post as I see fit. If you do not like it, do not read it.

Eb

 

[Richard49]

If you want to continue discussing how words are used, please take it here or to any one of the many places where this has been discussed before.

1) the location you are sending me and others to show how unimportant you think words are

2) I proably have a 100 posts on these boards reguarding the importance of words and there defintions

3) Normally I would be unhappy about thread hyjacks but IMHO this fits with this thread and your question

OK

I Will just unsubscribe from the thread
and go back to my virtual living room and watch the "world I love"
fall apart even more .... perhaps when and if some of you have
as many years recognizing your "idenity" as I have
you will be more concerned ... at this point ... as I posted earlier ...
I find you destructive and unsafe

 

[Ebonyfire]

If he wants to give pain which is not punishment, but for his pleasure alone, or meant to include mine also, he does not have to dress it up in pretence of being punishment...there have been many occasions my body has been used to relieve stress and tension he is experiencing.

Catalina

An excellent description of the use of pain as a tool of domination.

Eb

 

[Richard49]

I know I will post as I see fit. If you do not like it, do not read it.

Eb

sometimes I wish I could be more like you ...
and at times like this I wish Denise were still alive to
be supportive and talk reason to me

 

[Ebonyfire]

1) the location you are sending me and others to show how unimportant you think words are

2) I proably have a 100 posts on these boards reguarding the importance of words and there defintions

3) Normally I would be unhappy about thread hyjacks but IMHO this fits with this thread and your question

OK

I Will just unsubscribe from the thread
and go back to my virtual living room and watch the "world I love"
fall apart even more .... perhaps when and if some of you have
as many years recognizing your "idenity" as I have
you will be more concerned ... at this point ... as I posted earlier ...
I find you destructive and unsafe

Especially since the posts were on the subject. It was not a highjack my any means.

Obviously it is more important to be popular around here.

Eb

 

[shy slave]

Deleted post.
I have talked about punishment ad nauseam before.

 

[Ebonyfire]

sometimes I wish I could be more like you ...
and at times like this I wish Denise were still alive to
be supportive and talk reason to me

I think of myself as the standard bearer of my kind of Female Domination. There are very few Female dominants who bother to post here, and even less male submissives.

I post my point of view, and I assume everyone here can find the ignore button if they do not like it.

I am too damn old to kiss butt.

Eb

 

[DVS]

But that still doesn't change it's definition, does it?


Eb

I think the definition is a lot of it. Just telling a sub she's going to be "punished" gets her excited. I tie her up and then take my time explaining what's going to happen. Of course, it's all an act. I'm not in a Master/slave relationship or even a 24/7 thing. REAL punishment has never been a part of my lifestlye. All of my punishments are preliminary to some form of sex or otherwise erotic and as such are used as tools.

There is nothing corrective about it. It's just giving pain, because I enjoy her reactions. There is never a time when I punish someone for something they did or didn't do, unless it's withn a play setting.

I suppose some could say I'm changing the definition of punishment, by using the word when it's not REAL punishment. I say that's crap. What I do in my own private house with my own private sex life does nothing to tarnish or change the definition of punishment for those who only want to use it for a corrective means.

It's just that I (and any sub I might play with) were brought up with that word meaning one thing, and because of that, it creates a certain atmosphere at the time. It works for me, and that's that.

I'm not planning on going out in public with the intent on changing the definition of the word, or even augmenting the definition to include my use. So, I'll continue to use the word in my own private fun, and life will remain as it is.

 

[Ebonyfire]

............

You deleted your post. Tsk, tsk.

And I was gonna say that sexy is good.

 

[graceanne]

That's exactly how I feel. I haven't even been punished (how could I be without a D/s relationship), but using this word in play takes away some of the fun.

Exactly. I have a very touchy guilt button, and if gets pushed when I haven't done anything I get mad, which of course takes the fun out of good pain.

But I'm pretty plain spoken. I believe in calling things what they are. I can't pretend that funpain is a punishment. I liked what Cat said

If he wants to give pain which is not punishment, but for his pleasure alone, or meant to include mine also, he does not have to dress it up in pretence of being punishment...there have been many occasions my body has been used to relieve stress and tension he is experiencing.

It's pretty much what I said. If K wants to beat my ass he doesn't have to make up a reason to do it. It's not like I'm going to say 'nah, i don't feel like it tonight'. lol

 

[chris9]

Punishment in our relationship is not something which is taken lightly, therefore not something which happens frequently. Neither of us enjoy it, nor do we seek ways to make it happen. It has to be a fairly serious event to require punishment...lying would be one, though that fortunately has never been required, running away would be another, deliberate disobedience without cause (or what he considers cause), abuse of his property as in myself (that can range from deliberate to accidents which happen through carelessness), cheating (thankfully not an issue), to name just a few. Despite my being a masochist, physical pain is usually used. This is partly because I have huge issues with depression so using psychological means can have unwanted side effects for a long time, physical can also result in psychological because as many have said, there is no desire to displease so when it happens it can trigger depressive episodes.

The pain he inflicts often does not have to be as severe as we would do in a session and yet because of the circumstances heightening the senses, especially emotions, it is far from pleasureable and more painful than usual...if on the rare occasion that does not happen, he just ups the heat until it is definately past what I could dismiss lightly or enjoy. If he wants to give pain which is not punishment, but for his pleasure alone, or meant to include mine also, he does not have to dress it up in pretence of being punishment...there have been many occasions my body has been used to relieve stress and tension he is experiencing.

Catalina

Thank you, Catalina, for letting me glimpse on those aspects of your relationship.
To me it makes sense to punish only 'fairly serious events'. It also sounds like in your relationship and speaking from the examples given, the behaviour that's punished is such as would injure the relationship, like lying or deliberate disobediance.
It's also logical to adjust whatever is used as a punishment to fit in a way as to not push any buttons that are not supposed to be pushed.

Reading this again it's not the best wording. I'm trying to understand it, and for me a good way is to talk about the subject I want to understand. I'm sure that I'm not saying anything amazingly new, especially for anyone with any experience with this. I hope that my ramblings might help some newbies to BDSM, and I know I'm starting to understand why punishment is used and important for some.

And it seems that it really is possible to punish painsluts with pain. If both you and seri say so, I'd say it's proven

 

[chris9]

Exactly. I have a very touchy guilt button, and if gets pushed when I haven't done anything I get mad, which of course takes the fun out of good pain.

I don't even get mad, I get desperate. And then it's bye-bye sexual pain-plearure.

 

[graceanne]

I don't even get mad, I get desperate. And then it's bye-bye sexual pain-plearure.

My mother was a master guilt tripper, my reaction probably stems from that.

 

[DVS]

You deleted your post. Tsk, tsk.

And I was gonna say that sexy is good.

It's back. I first had to understand the theme change of the thread.

 

[catalina_francisco]

I think the definition is a lot of it. Just telling a sub she's going to be "punished" gets her excited. I tie her up and then take my time explaining what's going to happen. Of course, it's all an act. I'm not in a Master/slave relationship or even a 24/7 thing. REAL punishment has never been a part of my lifestlye. All of my punishments are preliminary to some form of sex or otherwise erotic and as such are used as tools.

There is nothing corrective about it. It's just giving pain, because I enjoy her reactions. There is never a time when I punish someone for something they did or didn't do, unless it's withn a play setting.

I suppose some could say I'm changing the definition of punishment, by using the word when it's not REAL punishment. I say that's crap. What I do in my own private house with my own private sex life does nothing to tarnish or change the definition of punishment for those who only want to use it for a corrective means.

It's just that I (and any sub I might play with) were brought up with that word meaning one thing, and because of that, it creates a certain atmosphere at the time. It works for me, and that's that.

I'm not planning on going out in public with the intent on changing the definition of the word, or even augmenting the definition to include my use. So, I'll continue to use the word in my own private fun, and life will remain as it is.

I don't have a problem with private use when engaging in role play, it is when people relate it publicly with a changed definition as you mentioned. LOL, I have freaked quite a few subs out who have contacted us when they tell us they really love doing x,y,z, but when they realise we actually do it and are willing to take them up on it, not role play it, they quickly define they did not mean for real, only pretend play. It would make it so much easier if they could define in the beginning what they are willing to do real time and what they like in the fantasy/pretend stakes only.


Catalina

 

[DVS]

And now for the rest of the posts here.
Both Chicklet and DVS said that they call pain play punishment. If you agree with this definition or not (And even if it's not for me, it most certainly is used in this context at least in porn, so it's understandable if people take it up into their personal vocab with this understanding. Blame the adult industry.) was not the question.

If you want to continue discussing how words are used, please take it here or to any one of the many places where this has been discussed before.
I'm still wondering what is the 'real' punishment used for, the one that's no fun, the one that's supposed to teach or end the chapter or whatever you use it for. And I just assume that those that call pain play punishment still may have some sort of the 'real' punishment in their relationships. So no matter what they call it, I want to know how they handle this.

Well, I say play punishment usually involves pain, but not that pain is play punishment. But, that is neither here nor there, as this thread going. Just a clarification, of sorts.

But, for an answer on what the 'real' punishment is used for...it's used for correction. It's used to show someone they did wrong, and it should be repeated, if and whenever the wrong is repeated. Some escelate the punishment each repeated offense, to drive home the fact that what was done was wrong.

Punishment takes different paths, mental, physical, corporal punishment, corner time, there are almost as many ways to punish as there are reasons to punish. There's very much an individualistic approach.

Or are you looking for specific reasons someone would be punished?

 

[JMohegan]

First off, I'd like to compliment Serijules on her posts on this thread. IMO, the clarity and depth of her responses produced a very helpful explanation of how & why punishment works in many D/s relationships.

Is punishment used for training or rather to maintain a certain level of training? Is it used for every tiny thing that the PYL doesn't like, or sparingly for only major offences?
Do you have rules that could be termed laws in your relationship that are enforced with punishment?
Do you believe punishment to be necessary for a D/s relationship?

For me, the answers are: No, the latter, no, and no.

The D/s aspect of my relationships has always extended beyond the bedroom, constituting the 24/7 framework of the partnership. I prefer general guidelines rather than a detailed list of rules, protocols, etc.

"Major offenses" would be actions or patterns of behavior implying a failure to adequately focus on my needs or the details of specific instructions.

Behavior that I would *not* punish would include: lying, cheating, deliberate refusal to obey a specific instruction, addressing me in an overtly disrespectful way, or speaking about me in a blatantly disrespectful way to others. The disrespect shown for my dominance in these cases would be so obvious that I would consider the D/s aspect of our relationship to be a sham, and punishment therefore beside the point.

I do not participate in Master/slave arrangements. A woman in a partnership with me is free to leave at any time, and the behaviors listed in the previous paragraph would be interpreted by me as signs that she is ready to go. Theoretically, there could be extenuating circumstances or conditions under which I could be persuaded to attempt a repair of the relationship in the wake of such behavior. But I wouldn't put money on it.

As a final note, I will say that I find playfulness in the form of mock disobedience and its consequences to be delightful. However, for me this type of exchange does not lend itself well to more intense forms of pain play. It's more a spontaneous episode involving appropriate teasing, giggling, squealing, chasing around the house, OTK, followed by a rather traditional conclusion.

 

[serijules]

First off, I'd like to compliment Serijules on her posts on this thread. IMO, the clarity and depth of her responses produced a very helpful explanation of how & why punishment works in many D/s relationships.

Thank you.

 

[chris9]

For me, the answers are: No, the latter, no, and no.

The D/s aspect of my relationships has always extended beyond the bedroom, constituting the 24/7 framework of the partnership. I prefer general guidelines rather than a detailed list of rules, protocols, etc.

"Major offenses" would be actions or patterns of behavior implying a failure to adequately focus on my needs or the details of specific instructions.

Behavior that I would *not* punish would include: lying, cheating, deliberate refusal to obey a specific instruction, addressing me in an overtly disrespectful way, or speaking about me in a blatantly disrespectful way to others. The disrespect shown for my dominance in these cases would be so obvious that I would consider the D/s aspect of our relationship to be a sham, and punishment therefore beside the point.

I do not participate in Master/slave arrangements. A woman in a partnership with me is free to leave at any time, and the behaviors listed in the previous paragraph would be interpreted by me as signs that she is ready to go. Theoretically, there could be extenuating circumstances or conditions under which I could be persuaded to attempt a repair of the relationship in the wake of such behavior. But I wouldn't put money on it.

As a final note, I will say that I find playfulness in the form of mock disobedience and its consequences to be delightful. However, for me this type of exchange does not lend itself well to more intense forms of pain play. It's more a spontaneous episode involving appropriate teasing, giggling, squealing, chasing around the house, OTK, followed by a rather traditional conclusion.

Thank you, JMohegan, for your answer.
I understand your idea on why to punish.
I'm only wondering what OTK stands for. Even without understanding this I have to say that this last sentence has made me giggling reading it. Sounds like great big fun.

 

[graceanne]

Thank you, JMohegan, for your answer.
I understand your idea on why to punish.
I'm only wondering what OTK stands for. Even without understanding this I have to say that this last sentence has made me giggling reading it. Sounds like great big fun.

over the knee

 

[chris9]

over the knee

Ah, makes sense. And does sound good.
Thanks, Gracie