Stereotypes and Diversity

[TarnishedPenny]

CG - LW is its own little world.

 

[EmilyMiller]

Stereotypes and Diversity​

It’s kinda complicated.

I’m white. The vast majority of sexual partners I have had have been white. Indeed every single guy I have had sex with has been white. At least there has been a bit more variety with the women. I had a quite long relationship with a girl with Korean heritage. I had briefer relationships with an African American woman and one with Lebanese heritage. But all the other girls were white as well (though one was born in Europe, rather than here).

As I’ve grown [glacially] as a writer, I’ve spread my wings a bit. I’ve had characters who are Black (male only, three times), Asian (Chinese, Thai, Korean - all female and three times) and Latin (all female, three times). But they have all been American and I’ve not tried to reflect aspects of different cultures (mostly as I’d screw it up).

With the possible exception of Mimi / Lauren in A Hard Day’s Night, ethnicity has never been a plot point. And I haven’t really dwelt on differences of appearance save at the same level of saying someone has blonde or dark hair.

So. I think it’s reasonable to have characters who reflect the diversity of society. But I don’t think I have ever fetishized their ethnicities. These have been at most secondary characteristics.

Emily

 

[Bramblethorn]

Frankly, I don't know if it's better or seems to more bigoted to write everyone the same and be accused of white-washing or to include specific references to cultural or ethnic identifiers and be accused of stereotyping (or else trying to make the character's background seem exotic and therefore a fetish in and of itself).

Two things I find helpful with this dilemma: to include more than one character from the same group, and to flesh them out enough to show both how they relate to group stereotypes (if they do) and how they break those stereotypes.

As Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie said, the biggest problem with stereotypes isn't that they're false (some are; many have a basis in truth) but that they're incomplete. Migrant parents who push their kids to become doctors and lawyers, Indians who love cricket and work in IT, lesbians who cut their hair short and like power tools, etc. etc. - lots of people like that exist, often there are specific reasons why those things are common. Trying to purge those stereotypes from a story entirely can lead to blandness and erasure - like I'm just writing straight white people and then changing the names and physical details.

But not every Indian is interested in cricket, not every lesbian has short hair... and even those who do match the stereotype in some regards won't be defined solely by that stereotype. I'm descended from Irish immigrants and that does have an effect on what kind of person I am, but there are also things about me that can't be predicted from that ancestry.

If I write multiple characters from the same group, then I can show cultural tendencies without suggesting that they're universal. I can write Indians who love cricket but also some who don't care, pushy migrant parents but also some who give their kids space, and I can get into why some might follow the stereotype and some might reject it.

Similarly, if I give those characters development, I can show how one person might lean into the stereotypes in one area but avoid them in another.

Some of the most positive feedback I've had on minority rep has been related to areas where I did include stereotypical elements - writing about an Indian family and getting "oh god this is just like my family!" comments from Indian readers, that kind of thing. But I think that worked better for also acknowledging the limits of that stereotype.

 

[Paul_Chance]

I've never received any comments on diversity in any story I've written here. I'm of the "minimal" character description school of thought - let the readers draw the characters in their imagination. I've only written one story where ethnicity played a role and that role was mainly to draw out character. I live in a major urban area and so my characters reflect the diversity I see around me.

 

[ronde]

Two things I find helpful with this dilemma: to include more than one character from the same group, and to flesh them out enough to show both how they relate to group stereotypes (if they do) and how they break those stereotypes.

As Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie said, the biggest problem with stereotypes isn't that they're false (some are; many have a basis in truth) but that they're incomplete. Migrant parents who push their kids to become doctors and lawyers, Indians who love cricket and work in IT, lesbians who cut their hair short and like power tools, etc. etc. - lots of people like that exist, often there are specific reasons why those things are common. Trying to purge those stereotypes from a story entirely can lead to blandness and erasure - like I'm just writing straight white people and then changing the names and physical details.

But not every Indian is interested in cricket, not every lesbian has short hair... and even those who do match the stereotype in some regards won't be defined solely by that stereotype. I'm descended from Irish immigrants and that does have an effect on what kind of person I am, but there are also things about me that can't be predicted from that ancestry.

If I write multiple characters from the same group, then I can show cultural tendencies without suggesting that they're universal. I can write Indians who love cricket but also some who don't care, pushy migrant parents but also some who give their kids space, and I can get into why some might follow the stereotype and some might reject it.

Similarly, if I give those characters development, I can show how one person might lean into the stereotypes in one area but avoid them in another.

Some of the most positive feedback I've had on minority rep has been related to areas where I did include stereotypical elements - writing about an Indian family and getting "oh god this is just like my family!" comments from Indian readers, that kind of thing. But I think that worked better for also acknowledging the limits of that stereotype.

I find stereotypes to be useful when a 1st person narrator is rendering an opinion about another character. The stereotype saves a lot of typing and readers will know what you mean. What can make a story interesting is to then prove to the reader that that stereotype isn't entirely true.

I don't attempt to write diverse characters into my stories because I really can't. Maybe I'm just not that skilled at writing, but things like race, ethnicity, and sexual preference are deeply personal, and since I have only my own experience, I'm not sure how I could write something believable outside of that experience.

 

[Rob_Royale]

I'm pretty diverse in my characters. I don't remember a reader commenting on that one way or the other.

Same here. I love variety and being diverse with my cast scratches that itch. I haven't had any complaints. I do NOT use physical racial stereotypes.

My trouble is that if I add a character, Latin for the sake of argument, and I want her to speak like Gloria from Modern Family, my instinct is to write the the dialog that way. "I want cho to take a look at dis." But I realize that it might be offensive to some. So I write dialog normally but add something like, Misty looked into Elena's eyes and melted a bit inside. The way Elena said beautiful with her accent made it sound like beauty-full and she loved it.
This way I'm conveying the fact that she has an accent and then leaving it up to the reader to read the dialog that way or not. On the other hand, if a person's accent or way of speaking includes a lack of contractions, I do include that. She felt a pair of gentle lips on hers and heard Sabrina's lovely Czech accent in her ear. "Let us go shower, darling."

 

[AchtungNight]

Same here. I love variety and being diverse with my cast scratches that itch. I haven't had any complaints. I do NOT use physical racial stereotypes.

My trouble is that if I add a character, Latin for the sake of argument, and I want her to speak like Gloria from Modern Family, my instinct is to write the the dialog that way. "I want cho to take a look at dis." But I realize that it might be offensive to some. So I write dialog normally but add something like, Misty looked into Elena's eyes and melted a bit inside. The way Elena said beautiful with her accent made it sound like beauty-full and she loved it.
This way I'm conveying the fact that she has an accent and then leaving it up to the reader to read the dialog that way or not. On the other hand, if a person's accent or way of speaking includes a lack of contractions, I do include that. She felt a pair of gentle lips on hers and heard Sabrina's lovely Czech accent in her ear. "Let us go shower, darling."

I do the same as the above poster. My characters’ races and other defining physical characteristics are characteristics, not fetishized. I will admit to having used religion as a relationship barrier at times, but the characters always overcome it because they’re tolerant people rather than oppressive ones.

 

[Britva415]

Stereotypes aren't automatically bad.

When are they bad?

When they perpetrate unfair, untrue and negative representations of the group they're pretending to represent.
When they're used to justify harm and abuse against people in those groups.
When they're used to ignore or erase a person's individuality.

So don't do those things in your stories and it'll be fine.

If helping you write different stories is achieved by writing about different types of people, great, but, simply using different stereotypes as a way to "add variety" to one's stories is... Tokenism, and, not very creative.

 

[MyBareTorso]

I like to have my recurring MC have sexual adventures with women of all colours, shapes, nationalities, ages (as long as over 18), races, religions, and socioeconomic backgrounds...but this is due to the fact that they all turn me on, as opposed to a conscious effort to be diverse...though that's a happy side effect...

 

[M_K_Babalon]

I find stereotypes to be useful when a 1st person narrator is rendering an opinion about another character. The stereotype saves a lot of typing and readers will know what you mean. What can make a story interesting is to then prove to the reader that that stereotype isn't entirely true.

I don't attempt to write diverse characters into my stories because I really can't. Maybe I'm just not that skilled at writing, but things like race, ethnicity, and sexual preference are deeply personal, and since I have only my own experience, I'm not sure how I could write something believable outside of that experience.

That's called being a writer.

 

[M_K_Babalon]

Of course mine are diverse. Some are DD cup some are H cup, might even throw a D cup in there, or a penis.

 

[pink_silk_glove]

Stereotypes aren't automatically bad.

Stereotypes in fiction are only bad if they are relied upon to drive the narrative without any other support, or if they are otherwise boring. It's like an off-color joke. An off-color joke is okay if it's funny enough. If it's not that funny then it's just offensive, and the particular audience that it is told to is a big factor in how funny it is. If all you have is a boring stereotype (like say BBC) then all that you;re left with is bad taste and you might want to keep it away from anyone who isn't into BBC or size queenage.

Fiction (or any art) has no obligation to hold up any moral code or societal norm whatsoever.