Switch Space

[SpectreT]

Hecate:

Switches
In many aspects of my life I am a defender of putting myself in the “other ones shoes” before judging or thinking myself an expert. This is valid for as many parts of my life as possible including the D/s scene, specially when it comes to s/m activities.

I feel much better to handle my “toys” knowing their effect first hand .. I need to know what sensations my flogger causes when hitting skin, I want to know what it feels like to be helpless and blindfolded – how hot exactly is hot candle wax when dripping on tender flesh? There is no better way I guess than seeing (*lol* or not seeing) for yourself. (this is why so far my sessions involving intense pain are limited since I am not willing to have a go at it on myself and thus do not know what I am doing to my sub – and I am NOT AT ALL feeling comfortable then)

I am not saying I wouldn’t eventually try – but right now I have no desire nor has it been expressed by my subs (thankfully) to go there. Should he/she ever desire a piercing or such I sure would do my best to provide the most intense experience possible – just not by my hand!

I like to know what sensations I am creating in my sub – the feeling of helplessness, maybe embarrassment and humiliation (although my abilities to “let go” are limited in that respect I am afraid) just so that I can see for myself what damage I may be doing. On the other hand I do want my subs to top at times… because I think they too need to see that it is not easy to be in charge – in control. I am aware that just as I can not let go easily they will not feel very comfortable but that too is important – it is important to be aware that I can not read their mind, that I need to trust them as much as they need to trust me, that they see that the use of a save word is not their choice but their damn DUTY, I as a Domme have to be able to rely on !

I think it is hard to believe from the way it looks – but we are deeply and fondly in love of our respective partners. We seek their pleasure as much or more as ours and we would do anything to avoid hurting each other in any physical (you know how I mean it) or psychical way.

and …. I admit it, from time to time I love being passive and “helpless” and see what my little pet has come up with for my pleasure, and yes , I do get pleasure from “submitting” to an expert Dom sometimes (read Dom NOT Domme *winks* - geeze, what a thrill to feel an expert “at work”, no better way to learn for further reference *g*) the bite of a well handled flogger is after all a stimulating sensation. But I admit it – it is in those cases mostly a “role play” and not a dedication – not sure if that made a lot of sense either...

 

[SpectreT]

BlondGirl

Telling a switch that s/he is a fraud is like tellign a doctor that s/he is messed up for becoming a patient sometimes.
It is illogical and very, very arrogant.

My lover (who happens to be a doctor--ironic, huh?) is a switch. With me, he has only topped. I cannot even begin to describe how erotic it is for him to have me bound and covered with erythema and panting and dripping wet and then for him to lean in to me, pressing against my back and describe each emotion, sensation, desire that is going through me--and then to take that on up, up, up to a more intense level--
he is so good, because he has been there and he desires it the same as me.

In this whole debate about switching, my comment is that sometimes I like vanilla. Sometimes, I like apples. Sometimes I like salt. Each has its place in my life and none conflicts with any other. These can even complement each other at times. If you don't believe me, just come and take a taste

Of my apple pie.

 

[SpectreT]

cymbidia, responding to questions about Switch etiquette in BDSM chatrooms....

quote:

Originally posted by Angel
I was about to ask the same questions about switches in chat.

In almost every chat room i've ever been a part of for any length of time, one is either Dom/me or sub - and there's not ever much switching that goes on.

For the times when one is Domme, i think one would go to a FemDom room. There you would find a plethora of msubs and fsubs who wish to sub to such as you. Male subs go to the places where Dommes hang out unless, of course, they're gay. Then they go to BDSM chats that are specifically for gay Doms and subs. (There are comparable rooms for lesbians, too, of course.)(Bi's get to cruise wherever they want. ~smirk~) There's very little mixing between Dom-dominated rooms and Domme-dominated rooms. (Now read that sentence out loud!)

For the times you're sub, you would go to a MDom/fsub room (or a FDom room, if you wish a Domme) and talk there.

It can be kinda complicated in the very beginning, this online playing. In ordinary life, one is what they are. All the people that know you, well, they know that sometimes you're one way and sometimes you're another way and it's no big deal. While there definitely exist chatrooms in which you would be welcome as a switch, they are relatively rare in my experience.

The whole online chatroom BDSM mentality is very different than it is for those who do this irl. A HUGE majority of online BDSM'ers have never actually done what they're talking about in these chatrooms. They don't know how it feels when a flogger strikes thier ass. They don't know what it feels like to be submissive even when they're not particularly in the mood. For many of them, they turn the puter off and it's over. For them, BDSM is a still and only thing of wildly erotic fantasy.

I do NOT mean to imply that none of those who have not done this irl are not as "real", somehow, as those of us who have. That's simply not true. There are many people who, for one reason or another, are not able to express thier BDSM needs physically and for them, there is no alternative but heated fantasy alone in their beds or the great resource that is the net. Many very knowlegable BDSM people have never played outside thier online environments - yet.

However, the vast majority of online BDSM players are truly beginners and have no appreciation for the depth of devotion, richness of emotion, and heights of pleasure that actually doing this stuff can cause between two people. They can't know. It doesn't make them less, it just makes them seekers. When it comes down to it, aren't we all eternally seekers after more knowledge about needs and desires, ours and our partner's? The online folks just have more to seek out, maybe. ~g~

In all online BDSM chat rooms, courtesies are very important. "Sir" is mandatory for all unknown Doms, as is "Lady" or "Ma'am" for all unknown Domme's. Such formality is not true irl, at least not in most situations. There are *many* online Doms and subs who take such elaborate measures to legitimize the differences between each group during normal, everyday room conversation that just talking to people becomes an excercise in wild usage of the caps key.

I don't mean to be discouraging, and newbies in all places are allowed a lot of lattitude, but i would be remiss in not explaining the best that i can (given the late hour and the fact that i'm sick of this subject!) about how extremely important basic polite courtesy is in online BDSM chatrooms.

We are all only the sum total of our words in all online places, Lit included. In online BDSM chatrooms, our words become more complex and meaningful, no matter if one is Dom/me, Switch, or sub.

So, go. Have fun. Check out the room. Listen. Learn. If you aren't comfy in one place, choose another. There's a million of them out there and you can learn something about yourself in all of them as well as offer something you know to those who are already present.

Be polite.
Be aware of room hierarchies.
Don't try to force your version of anything on room dynamics.

You'll be fine.

Oh yeh - and have a care as to what nick you choose, too. Like i said, words, all words - and your nick is a very powerful word - are extremely important in online BDSM chatrooms.

Now go play.

 

[SpectreT]

Another one of mine:

I originally had a question regarding the link between intelligence and deviant sexuality, (BDSM, Crossdressing, and bisexuality to name a few) but from what I can see, it boils down to alertness and self-knowledge, two things that exercise and engage the active mind, and enrich and enlighten spirits.

If anyone else has an opinion, an expansion, or noticed something I misstated or did not fully grasp, well, that's what discussion is about; sharing knowledge, diversity, and ideas to strengthen us all through expansion of those qualities, and the addition of another quality:

Unity.

Honor, Dignity, Respect, and Trust.

-Tom.

P.S. A sense of humor never hurts, either...

 

[SpectreT]

Me again... GodDAMN, I'm an ego-maniac!

RE: Exit to Eden - Haven't read that one. I saw the movie, and wasn't sure I should bother reading it. You mean someone has actually come close to explaining what I once thought of as confusion and insecurity? I now have the vocabulary to say I thought I was a Dom, but it didn't feel quite right, and that my desire to guide, protect and play felt conflicted by my desire to serve and near-worship. I'd had enough of that to convince me I maybe wasn't a Dom after all, but a Sub, but that shoe didn't fit, either. Lots of shoes don't fit me.

That also confused the hell out of a couple of past girlfriends - my inner conflict, and how I didn't successfully deal with it because I didn't understand it any more than they did.

That's what I get by reading here and elsewhere about this lifestyle, and by asking questions when I have them - a better self-understanding.

 

[SpectreT]

RisiaSkye, on topping from below

Okay, so now that I'm rested, back to Hecate's question.

Those of you who've been here for a while know that I Switch. However, I wouldn't say that I often truly "sub," even though I play Bottom fairly often. To me, this is an important distinction, for a reason that Hecate's question alludes to. (grammarians, forgive the dangling participle.)

My hubbie's quite capable of being a loving Dom, but he's less eager (and somewhat less comfortable) being sadistic. He's only inclined to use what we might call extreme sensation if provoked by a power struggle. I like the sensation, crave it, want it. That's really the only consistent reason that I Bottom. So, I find that I frequently provoke him to get what I want from the scene. What cym might call being a SAM (smart-assed masochist).

Also, I have considerably more experience with all of this than he does. This is a first kinky relationship for him. It's my second long-term one, and my first was really edgy at times. I know my limits, weak spots, and easily pushed buttons more clearly than he does, despite our 8 years together, because I've been closer to the edge than he's comfortable with approaching. So, partially he looks to me for guidance (because he loves me, because he doesn't want to hurt me, and because at heart he's a bit of a softie.), and partially I guide our play of my own volition.

When I Top, I retain control. I respect his limits, though I push them, and I pay attention to his responses, but I don't let him direct things. This isn't to be unfair, but because it's what he needs. If I'm not truly in control, he can't let himself fully be sub; if I can get him into that headspace, it's mind-blowing for him. While I enjoy sensation, he prefers to be aggressively bound. Punishment for him is more emotional, more about attention and affection. For me, it's physical. We have different needs and desires.

Would many Dom/mes like the way I play? Probably not. But, they aren't in my bed or my heart. We play the way that works for us, and we have no one else to please with it. We do what works for us both, whether it fits the labels or not.

And now, the question: Why does the idea of Topping from Below so bother people? Is it because it ruins the illusion of a scene? Is it more of an issue if you're living a 24/7 M/s relationship? What do you all think?

RS

 

[HotXBunz]

SpectreT, thanks for doing the mining. These gems are great. I did read the whole thread, and remember much of this, but it is wonderful to have it all in one place.

 

[Savage Kitten]

Switch -- best of both worlds

I don't think anyone could say it any better than Hecate did. I have long thought this way and have gotten in many heated debates with others of the BDSM community. I have always been a firm believer in practicing what you preach. When I was first introduced to this scene I observed for a very long time. I was so torn. I am a "care-giving" kind of person. I yearn to please and pleasure. But the intense power I felt when I had men (and women) begging to serve at my feet was overwhelming.

Before I continue... let me say that my only r/t expierence has been <snip> edited here <clip> Domme to 1 man and sub to 2 men (2 on seperate occassions). But I was very very active for abt 2.5 yrs online both Dom and sub.

After observing, and researching, for sometime I decided to take on a sub. It was an awesome expierence. But, I did not truely appreciate the power and responsibility of being Domme until I expierenced being a sub. Once I truely commited myself to being in an online D/s relationship as a submissive, I realized a part of me was filled that could never be filled any other way. A piece to the puzzle that is me was found.

So, I have argued time and time again. To be the best Dom/me you can be you MUST expierence the submissive side of it. To be the best sub you can be you must know what it is like to Dominate.

How can you teach someone to tie their shoes if you don't know how? How can you tell someone what something tastes like if you've never tasted it yourself?

But, also... maybe being a switch has worked against me. I have yet been able to find a Dom who can live up to my expectations. Go figure! haha

Sk~

 

[SpectreT]

Converastion Starters:

"Topping From Below": Is it a heightened hazard for Switches, who have experience on both sides? Is second-guessing a Dom(me) someting you've ever caught yourself doing? Ever thought to yourself, after a scene, that you could've done better?

Conversely, have you brought your sub experiences to your Dom(me) style? How much of your Domination is simply passing on a wonderful experience to someone you know will appreciate it?

This one's a personal experience question.

How or when does your Switching take place? Do your needs and desires move like moods, or do you find yourself adapting, chameleon-like, to mirror the side your partner's playing?

And lastly; do you think it's tougher, as a Switch, to find a monogamous relationship that fulfills your complex, mobile needs?

 

[cymbidia]

To be the best sub you can be you must know what it is like to Dominate.

Sorry, SK, but i disagree. I don't have to know what it's like to Domme to be the best sub i can be. Perhaps you do, but i do not.

It's very late, i'm in something of a mood. I should, perhaps, be gentler in my answer to your assertion but i can't right now.

All i really want to do here is deny the validity of your assertion for myself and on behalf of all those who don't feel at all drawn to switch. For us, your assertion is not only not true, it's mildly offensive.

 

[Savage Kitten]

All i really want to do here is deny the validity of your assertion for myself and on behalf of all those who don't feel at all drawn to switch. For us, your assertion is not only not true, it's mildly offensive.

*smiles* I know cym...

That is just my point of view. I really never have found anyone else that felt the same as I did either. Even other Switches, they were always predominantly one or the other. Until I read this thread, and some of the gems pulled from the ~monster thread~, I was like "wow, so I'm not the only one...." haha

SpectreT poses some interesting questions. "Topping from below"... haha eek! I guess I have done this... I rationalized it to myself that if the man had been more expierenced then I would have been able to surrender total control. I felt like I had to lead him... in which... I was topping from below...

wow... talk about having something to think about now....

oh and cym... I didn't mean to offend you earlier.

Sk~

 

[SpectreT]

Each of you has a valid point. Technical skills, especially in sexual expression, are best learned by being the recipient. For that reason, the commonly held belief that women make the best pussy eaters, and men suck cock better. you've got that set of equipment, you know how to make it perform, from having those acts performed on you, and using that knowledge.

Same sort of thing applies to BDSM.

You've, for example, been caned to the point of taking your meals standing thanks to the slightly (or not so slightly) bruised welts on your posterior. You're a Switch, so you might not have been all the way into the scene, not really submissive so much as "being the bottom" (much as I dislike using the word "bottom", given its genesis). You're studying the cane, how it's swung, how springy it is, and just how that little whoosh... splat! noise precedes an explosion of sensation in the aforementioned gluteal region.

Next time you're Dom-ing somebody, who sheepishly expresses an interest in the cane, you've got your own butt to remind you and lend you confidence in the cane's application. This confidence helps your sub relax into her headspace, and makes the whole thing go so much better than it could've if you were a little nervous about a tool you haven't felt before.

Such an experience might reinforce a belief that that's the only way to gain such confidence, to truly plan a scene, but that's not necessarily the case. Some folks are very naturally drawn to one side or the other of the sliding scale a Switch lives on; the Dom side has practiced radiating an aura of competence and confidence compatible to the sub, who's own psychological makeup gives them the gift of easy transition into their special place, where their Dom or Master is their whole world.

In short, you're both right, and it's that simple.

If only Solomon had listened to me, that whole "cut the baby in half" crap could've been avoided.

Listening to the chirping of crickets....

Ah, Nuts!

I didn't mean to bore everyone away!

Anyone care to share anything on those questions I posed earlier, or have anything interesting or relevant to add?

Just call us here at "Switch Space", a member of the BDSM Talk communications group. This is SpectreT, and you're listening to K-LIT, Literotica Radio.

 

[SpectreT]

Re: Hi SpectreT, Nessus, et al

I don't switch or, at least, I haven't to date. Although I don't judge others, I personally wouldn't feel right if I were expected to be Dominant.

If one switches at the request of a Dom/Domme, who retains overall control? Whoever is topping at the time?

To switch must require a lot of mental energy?

I probably haven't worded this well, I've only just got up

Sorry. Should've replied to this days ago.

If one switches at the request of the Dom(me), it really depends on the headspace one is in. Are they into forging the scene, now that the baton has been passed, or are they dealing out a sensation that their Dom(me) has ordered them to do, as a service to that Dom(me)? The answer to your question depends on the answer to my multi-faceted ine.

And to switch, in my (admittedly limited) experience, requires about the same mental energy as it does to be a Dom or sub, unless you're in a scene where you're one of two subs, and "in charge" of the other sub, since your Dom(me) knows you switch. I gather that can be exhausting. It might also make a great story, or even a scene.

 

[mskittykatt]

Re: Re: Hi SpectreT, Nessus, et al

you're in a scene where you're one of two subs, and "in charge" of the other sub, since your Dom(me) knows you switch.

Lord Sannion brought this up early on in our relationship and i was a bit surprised. i didn't think i had it in me to top, in fact it scares me! when He'd bring it up i just smiled and said yes M'Lord, thank you M'Lord. when he'd say we'd have to get my kitty a sub sometime, i trembled inside and voiced a bit of apprehension when He asked how i felt and then let the matter drop.
Last night things changed very suddenly. my bf turned to me as we were going to sleep and made a comment about how he saw Sannnion and something clicked in my brain.
he is much more submissive then he has voiced before. we talked about that for a little while, and i started playing with him some, testing my ideas and watching and asking about his reactions to a little bit of pain as i asserted my will.
he really enjoyed it,which isn't what surprised me....so did i !!!
this leaves me a bit baffled. it would make more sense to me if i could sub for men and Domme for women, but it isn't so cut and dry for me. this hasn't changed *anything* i feel or think in my relationship with Sannion, but it's changed *a lot* about how i see, and what i feel about myself.
<<whimper>> frankly i'm irritated! things were nice and comfy when i saw the world as a sub, even more so (and so many other glorious feelings) when i met my Master...
*lol* i keep thinking about that line from the birdcage when they are cleaning out the house for the senator to come over, "...there is so much to do, now!" in that cute little accent
it may clear up some confusion i had a few weekends ago though <giggle> a man walked by me on the dance floor and in about 20 seconds of eye contact, and the way he carried himself, looked at the women he was with etc. i could tell he was a Dom... but it was him that broke eye contact, and he wouldn't look at me again for the rest of the night. i felt like i was the one that should have looked away and was grumpy about it. when i told Sannion about it, he laughed and said maybe he saw the strength in you that i do!
now i have to wonder, what indeed he did see in my eyes!
i guess in the end, it's just a matter of accepting a part of myself i hadn't recognized before... it doesn't really change much in my current relationships. (and i thank the Gods everyday for them) it could add a new element to bedroom play with my bf, but i don't see that becoming a major thing.
anyway, i ramble on. my main questions are, how did other people learn about switching and how did affect things as a whole?

 

[SpectreT]

How did I learn about switching? Hmmmm.

About seven and a half years ago, I had a girlfriend. We were both a little curious about B&D, and started reading, then we started playing. I thought, at my core, I was a Dom, but when we started playing, she gave the orders for quite a while, because I pretty easily slipped into a "humble servant" mode, proving my strength to her and my love for her; it was great, but I was feeling a little restless. Fortunately, so was she, so we swapped roles. It seemed to me that she "found her place" quite quickly and easily. It was such an odd feeling of completion for me when I was in charge, planning and executing the games we played, but I also felt the need to serve her again. She wanted no part of it, telling me she'd finally found herself as a sub. The relationship disintegrated for several other reasons a few months later.

In that brief period, I discovered that I had seemingly conflicting needs. It wasn't until I found Lit, and the Monster (Mother) thread, that I found a place to discuss those needs, and ask some questions. And the eye contact thing? It wasn't your strength per se, but the kind of strength you radiate that changed the way he reacted to you. I've bothered and confused several people, because forcefulness and humility radiate from me at different times. They never know if they're getting Humble Servant Tom, or Take-Charge Tom, and it makes things a little tough on them. For some folks, my reaction is pretty consistent, but they're obviously at one end or the other of the personality spectrum.

 

[BlondGirl]

SpectreT,

I must say that I feel honored to have stated something in my musings and wandering thoughts that was of value to someone else.

Thank you for stroking my ego today.

 

[SpectreT]

Hey, no problem. I culled what I felt were the best of the thoughts and comments from the.... Mother.... Thread, the ones most likely to help a reader understand what Switching is, for each of us. There's still one Switch I haven't seen in my thread yet, even though she has an open invitation to provide a counterpoint here.

Mind you I don't know how much your ego can possibly be stroked in a thread where three of the last five posts were by the poor bastard who started the thread.

Is the topic that uninteresting, or is it just that I'm an overbearing bore with a flaky sense of humor?

 

[RisiaSkye]

Re: Converastion Starters:

This one's a personal experience question.

How or when does your Switching take place? Do your needs and desires move like moods, or do you find yourself adapting, chameleon-like, to mirror the side your partner's playing?

I adapt somewhat, according to my husbands needs and desires. Sometimes, I'm willing to take either side, and so will look to him for an idea of which way to go. I also change according to my mood, my needs at any given time. I'm flexible that way.

Do I now count as having participated, ST?

 

[SpectreT]

You've participated.

Thanks.

<looking around, at everyone else....>

I'll just sit here and wait for a discussion to break out.

 

[sxychick21]

Serious and Silly

Ok I have 2 questions. One is serious and the other a little silly. I apologize in advance if the answer has already been posted

First, if you are just a beginner and never done dom or sub (except dabbling in chat) how do you know if you are a switch? I suspect that I am but I kind of want to know before I proceed further in real life. Maybe it doesnt matter at this point? I am teetering on the edge and finding you guys has just made me want to get into this all that much more (thanks for corrupting me )

Now for my silly question Do you guys think that your horoscope would have anything to do with your preference? I'm a gemini and since I'm supposed to have twin personalities I was kind of thinking that thats why I would want to switch. maybe I'm off my rocker but its an interesting topic to explore. How many switches in here are Gemini?

Looking forward to the responses!

 

[SpectreT]

In response to your first question, I'll quote one of my favorite sci-fi authors, Robert Heinlein: "I have strong opinions, but a thousand reasoned opinions are never equal to one case of jumping in and finding out."

That's how I found my stumbling, bumbling way, and experience seems to be the best teacher. Two ways you can aproach your newfound interest: Find a Switch, and experience both sides of the coin with the same person, or find a Dom and a sub, and explore your interests separately. The second option may be the less difficult one, since we switches seem to be a rare breed.

Your second questions is one that intrigues me as well. For my part, I'm a Taurus, something of a sensual hedonist, and Bondage gives me the chance to really indulge my senses, either as a Dominant or as a submissive. I have a wicked imagination, geared toward pleasant, romantic surprises when I play. I'm a big fan of textures as well. I've mentioned before, all the Tauruses I've been able to ask about this have been in agreement: Spankings are the favorite fun activity in BDSM.

Anyone else have some Horoscopic anecdotes?

 

[sxychick21]

Hey Spectre

Thanks for the quick response and the guidance on how to pursue this.

If you dont mind my asking, how long have you been in this lifestyle? Was it a surprise you fell into or something you always knew?

I think we'll get some interesting responses on the horoscope thing.

 

[SpectreT]

It was, for me, falling into something I've always known. I and a girlfriend decided to try the advice in a popular magazine (whose name will go unmentioned here) and write out a few of our fantasies and read them aloud to one another. She was floored by the one I told her about being spanked by her and stood in a corner for some misdeed. After that, the fantasies we had in common were the ones we tried out. Both sets of my cheeks were bright red for quite a while.

She became more and more fascinated by the whole thing, and wanted to know what I was feeling. We 'switched', and she never switched back. Turns out she was a budding little subby who finally found someone to help her grow into herself. Hope that answers your question about how I got started.

But I've always had these feelings and desires. Growing up just gave me a label for them, and a framework to hang them on. I don't consider myself 'in the lifestyle' yet, since I'm currently alone, but she and I were together for about three years, and it was in our second year that we started playing. Eight months later, Spec's a lonely boy. That was about seven and a half years ago.

<post editied for spelling>

 

[RisiaSkye]

On horoscopes: I'm a Scorpio, so make of that what you will. Scorps tend to be passionate, intense, jealous, expressive people. I am all of those things in spades.

I've been exploring BDSM on and off since I was a teenager. In the last few years, it's come to play a much larger role in my sex life and sexual identity. However, it was always there, so far as I can tell.

 

[SpectreT]

Risia: And you griped about my avatar? That smirking blonde face has had me..... distracted for quite a while. Wondering what thoughts caused that smirk have been causing some trouble sleeping, and inspired a couple of stories. cym volunteered to critique any BDSM I write before I post it, so I'll ask her if she'll do that for "Castle" (working title for the one I'll use here).

<SIGH>.

<looking out at the thread>

Hmmm. Pretty quiet.

I did post some possible conversation starters back on Page 2, but it doesn't look like anyone wants to share.... unless I whine and wheedle them into my thread. (sorry about that, Risia,)

Maybe there are fewer switches than even I thought....