Taboo. Open discussion, no attitude.

[Netzach]

How about the taboo of not admitting some of our children were born to mop up fish guts and dig ditches? Not all children can be anything they want to be when they grow up and that is okay. No shame in filling your duty to society be it shoveling horse shit or owning the horse farm. Nature balances.

Society functions because we have a classes of people to do the mundane or manual labor the intellectuals do not desire to do. Every role has its place and skills required to fill that slot.

Genetic diversity supports a Utopian society. I hate to see a world of disgruntled geniuses.

Not all humans were created equal. We are a society of perfectly flawed people filling in each others weakness with other's strengths. Our inequalities are what equalizes us. Not one of us can do it all alone.

Oh dear God, yes.
Now that everyone and their dog can get some kind of a Bachelors' it's just about meaningless. I know people teaching at commuter colleges which graduate people that pretty much can't READ.

 

[graceanne]

Here's a taboo - maybe not everyone needs to pass along their freaking genetic code no matter WHAT

I agree that not EVERYONE needs to have children. Frankly I think more people shouldn't. But some people REALLY want to. When I was 19 I dreamed every night about babies. My biological clock was going so loud I could barely hear over it. I've talked to women who got cancer as children who's biological clocks are like mine - but they can't have children, and it literally breaks their hearts. If technology can do something to ease this, just in case they want children later, why not? It's not like they HAVE to use the eggs if they decide they don't want children later.

 

[graceanne]

How about the taboo of not admitting some of our children were born to mop up fish guts and dig ditches? Not all children can be anything they want to be when they grow up and that is okay. No shame in filling your duty to society be it shoveling horse shit or owning the horse farm. Nature balances.

Society functions because we have a classes of people to do the mundane or manual labor the intellectuals do not desire to do. Every role has its place and skills required to fill that slot.

Genetic diversity supports a Utopian society. I hate to see a world of disgruntled geniuses.

Not all humans were created equal. We are a society of perfectly flawed people filling in each others weakness with other's strengths. Our inequalities are what equalizes us. Not one of us can do it all alone.

My mother and I FOUGHT when I was younger, because she was determined I was going to go to college and become like a doctor or something. I do not want to do anything huge and great with my life. I want to be a mom and stay home with my family. Does this make me any less? No, I don't feel it does. If everyone in the world was a doctor or a lawyer, then who would collect the trash?

My brother and I had a similar conversation, shortly after 9/11. N was . . . 14? and is a very aggressive person. He asked me if I wanted to go over to Iraq and kick Bin Laden's ass. I said, no. He couldn't understand this, and I explained that their are many different types of people in this world. Just because I'm not like him, doesn't mean I'm not needed. If everyone went to Afghanistan to kick butt, then who'd stay home and take care of America?

My daughters soccer coach informed me that A is VERY talented and I should follow through on this. I'm going to, but not because I INSIST she go to college. I want her to have that option, but if she chooses not to I don't care as long as she's happy. And if at some point she decides she doesn't like soccer I'll let her stop doing it - for now she loves it.

 

[Quint]

...........

 

[xxCrystal4314xx]

I agree that not EVERYONE needs to have children. Frankly I think more people shouldn't. But some people REALLY want to. When I was 19 I dreamed every night about babies. My biological clock was going so loud I could barely hear over it. I've talked to women who got cancer as children who's biological clocks are like mine - but they can't have children, and it literally breaks their hearts. If technology can do something to ease this, just in case they want children later, why not? It's not like they HAVE to use the eggs if they decide they don't want children later.

Totally 100% agree. I desperately wanted kids as soon as I met my now husband, and haven't been able to yet. I would be more than willing to try anything to eventually get my dream.

 

[m wisdom]

Oh hell yes. I'm a big fan of selective breeding. Could you imagine if some country like Sweden implemented a policy of scientific selective breeding. Procuring genetic material around the world. A whole country of genius supermodels who are kinky.

We actually had a bit of that in the 70's. Mentally ill patients where locked up until they "freely" agreed to be sterilized. Not one of our best ideas.

In a perfect world people that shouldn't have kids would know this themselves and not get any. Not going to happen but one can hope.

 

[Hisbabydoll26]

My mother and I FOUGHT when I was younger, because she was determined I was going to go to college and become like a doctor or something. I do not want to do anything huge and great with my life. I want to be a mom and stay home with my family. Does this make me any less? No, I don't feel it does. If everyone in the world was a doctor or a lawyer, then who would collect the trash?.

Not to get all rah rah and stuff but I would like to point out that being a mother is one of those tough jobs that has it's rewards in other ways. It is the hardest job next to being a father, and most are given only 9 months to prepare. No vacation comes with this "job" and no degree could cover all that is needed. It comes like many other jobs with a need for updating education, no sleep, and a life in the balance. There is not such thing as "I'm JUST a mom". It is the greatest, huge, thing Grace one can do in their life. What you do with your children directly has an impact on how they in turn change our world. Okay so maybe that was a little rah rah.

 

[Betticus]

How about the taboo of not admitting some of our children were born to mop up fish guts and dig ditches? Not all children can be anything they want to be when they grow up and that is okay. No shame in filling your duty to society be it shoveling horse shit or owning the horse farm. Nature balances.

Society functions because we have a classes of people to do the mundane or manual labor the intellectuals do not desire to do. Every role has its place and skills required to fill that slot.

Genetic diversity supports a Utopian society. I hate to see a world of disgruntled geniuses.

Not all humans were created equal. We are a society of perfectly flawed people filling in each others weakness with other's strengths. Our inequalities are what equalizes us. Not one of us can do it all alone.

Okay, let's say that the world is at the brink of being technologically advanced enough that your basic laborer type of job is going away, being replaced by robots much like the assembly lines for cars but smarter. Think of some of the remote controlled or semi autonomous machines being developed for research on other planets. There's no reason that farms can't be pretty much totally automated. The way our economies are going now the divide between wealth and poverty is widening. I think it's the phase out of the mundane labor force. So why not start planning for this eventuality now and developing the methodology for human selective breeding?

 

[catalina_francisco]

One of the major problems I have with selective breeding theories apart from the obvious it is just plain elitist and arrogant is that those who would deem themselves fit to make judgement on who should and shouldn't be free to bear children IMHO eliminate themselves from being suitable to judge simply because of their arrogance and elitist ideals. Anyone who prides themselves on being better than others and fit to then decide that 'lesser beings' do not have the right to be born just are not the type people I see as being the ones I would like to see the earth populated by. Sort of harks back to Nazi idealism of the perfect race for me and that is not something I find honourable or acceptable. I guess I am just not a beige person who feels everyone has to fit in a little box marked with an X or otherwise be classed unsuitable....history shows that many people of disadvantage, be it in terms of health/mental conditions, or class/financial/academic conditions have given back just as much if not more to the world and society in all ways than the supposed 'better' people who often spent their time patting themselves on the back because of their imagined superiority to do anything worthwhile.

Catalina

 

[HottieMama]

One of the major problems I have with selective breeding theories apart from the obvious it is just plain elitist and arrogant is that those who would deem themselves fit to make judgement on who should and shouldn't be free to bear children IMHO eliminate themselves from being suitable to judge simply because of their arrogance and elitist ideals. Anyone who prides themselves on being better than others and fit to then decide that 'lesser beings' do not have the right to be born just are not the type people I see as being the ones I would like to see the earth populated by. Sort of harks back to Nazi idealism of the perfect race for me and that is not something I find honourable or acceptable. I guess I am just not a beige person who feels everyone has to fit in a little box marked with an X or otherwise be classed unsuitable....history shows that many people of disadvantage, be it in terms of health/mental conditions, or class/financial/academic conditions have given back just as much if not more to the world and society in all ways than the supposed 'better' people who often spent their time patting themselves on the back because of their imagined superiority to do anything worthwhile.

Catalina

HOLY CRAP!!! It's gonna snow or some shit.. i completely agree with Catalina.

Selective breeding totally equals Nazi to me...

 

[firefly03k64]

One of the major problems I have with selective breeding theories apart from the obvious it is just plain elitist and arrogant is that those who would deem themselves fit to make judgement on who should and shouldn't be free to bear children IMHO eliminate themselves from being suitable to judge simply because of their arrogance and elitist ideals. Anyone who prides themselves on being better than others and fit to then decide that 'lesser beings' do not have the right to be born just are not the type people I see as being the ones I would like to see the earth populated by. Sort of harks back to Nazi idealism of the perfect race for me and that is not something I find honourable or acceptable. I guess I am just not a beige person who feels everyone has to fit in a little box marked with an X or otherwise be classed unsuitable....history shows that many people of disadvantage, be it in terms of health/mental conditions, or class/financial/academic conditions have given back just as much if not more to the world and society in all ways than the supposed 'better' people who often spent their time patting themselves on the back because of their imagined superiority to do anything worthwhile.

Catalina

Beautifuly put Catilina, I agree with you.

 

[Betticus]

One of the major problems I have with selective breeding theories apart from the obvious it is just plain elitist and arrogant is that those who would deem themselves fit to make judgement on who should and shouldn't be free to bear children IMHO eliminate themselves from being suitable to judge simply because of their arrogance and elitist ideals. Anyone who prides themselves on being better than others and fit to then decide that 'lesser beings' do not have the right to be born just are not the type people I see as being the ones I would like to see the earth populated by. Sort of harks back to Nazi idealism of the perfect race for me and that is not something I find honourable or acceptable. I guess I am just not a beige person who feels everyone has to fit in a little box marked with an X or otherwise be classed unsuitable....history shows that many people of disadvantage, be it in terms of health/mental conditions, or class/financial/academic conditions have given back just as much if not more to the world and society in all ways than the supposed 'better' people who often spent their time patting themselves on the back because of their imagined superiority to do anything worthwhile.

Catalina

Okay, let's say that some group interested in selective breeding were to acquire a large island and used that as a base for their agenda. This would leave the rest of the world just as free as ever to carry on. Let's say this group built up a working society of their own while maintaining ties to the rest of the world such as running businesses, investments, vacationing or even living wherever they choose. If they were to use this island as a research and development testbed for selective breeding purposes, child rearing methodologies, education systems and everything else that a healthy, civilized society needs would that be wrong? Let's also say that no one would be forced to participate and if a person born of the program chooses he/she could freely leave and pursue their own life anywhere else in the world. Let's go a step further and say that this group has instead of just seeking out and procuring genetic material from people that they think should be included that they have formed a contest of sorts, an olympics where anyone in the world could compete for a chance to be part of the program?

Then what? Sure people would be alarmed, scared, angry. They would try every method to take this group down or ensure that their work failed. The religious nuts would be up in arms especially. They would fear deep down that the project could work.

What if selection to be part of the program depended upon rigorous testing and that no-one gets in as breeding stock who can't pass all of the testing and then approval by a board of directors? What if participants were judged solely upon ability and potential with no bias shown due to race, religion, background, etc...?

 

[Netzach]

Okay, let's say that the world is at the brink of being technologically advanced enough that your basic laborer type of job is going away, being replaced by robots much like the assembly lines for cars but smarter. Think of some of the remote controlled or semi autonomous machines being developed for research on other planets. There's no reason that farms can't be pretty much totally automated. The way our economies are going now the divide between wealth and poverty is widening. I think it's the phase out of the mundane labor force. So why not start planning for this eventuality now and developing the methodology for human selective breeding?

Genetically engineered Humon = British Royalty.

Selective breeding = bad plan.

I would love to see everyone have to pass some tests though. I do think some people don't have the toolkit required and some do. You don't get it both ways. Either being a parent is just something anyone can do or it IS one of the most important jobs in the universe and people ought to know how to do it well in order to have the right to do it. I mean you need a dog license some places, for crying out loud.

But we have all overlooked a post about a snake up someone's ass.

Only on lit would this go uncommented till now.

 

[Quint]

...........

 

[graceanne]

I read somewhere that almost all the great people in the world, the ones who made a difference (Einsteen, Beetoven . . . etc) did not have 'the perfect upbrining' or the 'perfect breeding'. If we start insisting on only letting those people who spend hours reading the 'right' books, and raising their children how the state says they should, the who knows what we're doing to our future.

That said, their are some people I wish would get their damn tubes tied. I know a lady who continually puts out crack babies (she's had five live births). At the very least she should be put in jail for the rest of her life for child abuse.

But, who gets to decide? The Hiltons of the world? The Bush's of the world? If you're fooling yourself into thinking that 'right' parents aren't going be the rich parents, then you'd be in for one hell of a surprise.

So that's what we'd end up with - a world full of Paris Hiltons and Jenna and Barbara Bush's.

That's enough to give ME nightmares, how 'bout you?

 

[graceanne]

But we have all overlooked a post about a snake up someone's ass.

Only on lit would this go uncommented till now.

LOL..

 

[Netzach]

I read somewhere that almost all the great people in the world, the ones who made a difference (Einsteen, Beetoven . . . etc) did not have 'the perfect upbrining' or the 'perfect breeding'. If we start insisting on only letting those people who spend hours reading the 'right' books, and raising their children how the state says they should, the who knows what we're doing to our future.

That said, their are some people I wish would get their damn tubes tied. I know a lady who continually puts out crack babies (she's had five live births). At the very least she should be put in jail for the rest of her life for child abuse.

But, who gets to decide? The Hiltons of the world? The Bush's of the world? If you're fooling yourself into thinking that 'right' parents aren't going be the rich parents, then you'd be in for one hell of a surprise.

So that's what we'd end up with - a world full of Paris Hiltons and Jenna and Barbara Bush's.

That's enough to give ME nightmares, how 'bout you?

Haha, I'm not talking about the "right" books, I'm talking about people feeding a-lingustic 2 year old smeary neglected crack babies coke and pepsi from their bottles. There are poor parents who get it right and there are people who are so cut off from the social mainstream they have no idea.

I don't think Ben Franklin had that going against him, even if he was indentured, refused an education and beaten about the head.

 

[Netzach]

And I just had a vision, on that note, of the "don't tread on me" snake wending its way up Paris Hilton's butt.

 

[graceanne]

Haha, I'm not talking about the "right" books, I'm talking about people feeding a-lingustic 2 year old smeary neglected crack babies coke and pepsi from their bottles. There are poor parents who get it right and there are people who are so cut off from the social mainstream they have no idea.

I don't think Ben Franklin had that going against him, even if he was indentured, refused an education and beaten about the head.

I think if their was a law about who can have children and all that, that it would start out with people not being allowed to have children who are drug addicted, or whatever. But then after a while it'd become a beurocracy, and eventually it'd be like the united states govt - corrupted and greedy.

Know what I think would work better? Send people who consistantly have drug addicted children to jail. If someone was walking around feeding children drugs that's what would happen to them, but because it happens in-utero it's not a crime.

 

[graceanne]

And I just had a vision, on that note, of the "don't tread on me" snake wending its way up Paris Hilton's butt.

hehe

 

[FurryFury]

Genetically engineered Humon = British Royalty.

Selective breeding = bad plan.

I would love to see everyone have to pass some tests though. I do think some people don't have the toolkit required and some do. You don't get it both ways. Either being a parent is just something anyone can do or it IS one of the most important jobs in the universe and people ought to know how to do it well in order to have the right to do it. I mean you need a dog license some places, for crying out loud.

But we have all overlooked a post about a snake up someone's ass.

Only on lit would this go uncommented till now.

One of the scariest things I've ever read in a book was about that after the ladies were hunted and abducted.

*shivers in both a bad and a good way at the same time*

 

[Alt]

But we have all overlooked a post about a snake up someone's ass.

I'm waiting for the pic thread!

 

[Life_Noir]

Hmmm, wasn't that tried in Germany once?

Nope... What they tried, was yet another of their random derangements...
Proof yet again of what happens if the power mad and insane are allowed to hold power over a country.
Perpetrated without barely a clue as to what they were doing...
But, anyone who has mentioned anything about improving the standard random human has been painted with their brush ever since though... Hyperbole is a lot easier than reason it seems.

Which brings us to other posts and the sticking point of anything genetic...
One side says that no one has the right to set standards...The other *shrug*, points at statistics and says "someone has to"...

 

[LadyAria]

Oh dear God, yes.
Now that everyone and their dog can get some kind of a Bachelors' it's just about meaningless. I know people teaching at commuter colleges which graduate people that pretty much can't READ.

Yes, online schools basically sell degrees, not education.

 

[LadyAria]

My mother and I FOUGHT when I was younger, because she was determined I was going to go to college and become like a doctor or something. I do not want to do anything huge and great with my life. I want to be a mom and stay home with my family. Does this make me any less? No, I don't feel it does. If everyone in the world was a doctor or a lawyer, then who would collect the trash?

My brother and I had a similar conversation, shortly after 9/11. N was . . . 14? and is a very aggressive person. He asked me if I wanted to go over to Iraq and kick Bin Laden's ass. I said, no. He couldn't understand this, and I explained that their are many different types of people in this world. Just because I'm not like him, doesn't mean I'm not needed. If everyone went to Afghanistan to kick butt, then who'd stay home and take care of America?

My daughters soccer coach informed me that A is VERY talented and I should follow through on this. I'm going to, but not because I INSIST she go to college. I want her to have that option, but if she chooses not to I don't care as long as she's happy. And if at some point she decides she doesn't like soccer I'll let her stop doing it - for now she loves it.

My point exactly. Just because a destiny is different, it does not make it less important.