The AH Coffee Shop and Reading Room 09

[NotWise]

How do you handle characters with distinctive voices?

The ghost in the story I'm working on doesn't know a word of English, and her voice is a problem. To quote her, "I speak Japanese, Soto-sama. Perhaps English you hear?"

I've tried writing her with Japanese-like grammar (no articles, subject-object-verb sentence structure, etc) but that is hard to read and (worse) often ambiguous. I haven't settled on a consistent convention.

Our weather is cooling back toward normal, which gives us highs near 60F and lows just above freezing. It's still been bright and sunny, and working outdoors sunburned my arms. The sunburn faded to a farmer's tan.

Earlier in the week I listened to geese gathering overhead while I worked. They were high, but still made enough noise to hear before they headed north. There were no geese yesterday. Probably the only ones left are the few canada geese that stay here year-around.

 

[BeechLeaf]

I've seen Japanese conveyed in translation (or possibly it was Ishiguro writing in English) as normal English that's just slightly more consistently polite than is colloquial. 'Do you mind if I smoke?' would do, 'Would it be okay if I smoke?' is possible, but perhaps pushing it, leaning a bit too much on the Japanese syntax (mo ii desu) - which certainly would not be readable if you got any closer to it. 'Really?' conveys just what 'Soo desu ka?' does. It's not so much the words (which should be natural English) as the consistency of use of these polite modes.

 

[NotWise]

I've seen Japanese conveyed in translation (or possibly it was Ishiguro writing in English) as normal English that's just slightly more consistently polite than is colloquial. 'Do you mind if I smoke?' would do, 'Would it be okay if I smoke?' is possible, but perhaps pushing it, leaning a bit too much on the Japanese syntax (mo ii desu) - which certainly would not be readable if you got any closer to it. 'Really?' conveys just what 'Soo desu ka?' does. It's not so much the words (which should be natural English) as the consistency of use of these polite modes.

Thanks. Simply having her speak formally could be all I need. I was hoping for something a little more distinctive, but I want it to be consistent, which it isn't right now.

 

[TheLobster]

For Japanese in particular, I'd skip trying to shoehorn English into SOV because, as you said, it ambiguous things makes; and also because it's not very specific to Japanese.

The most distinct grammatical feature of that language is IMO the topic-comment structure of a sentence, and that's easy enough to replicate in English. Check the Wikipedia article about it and you'll find examples.

 

[TheLobster]

Can you ignore threads? Or just users?

As far as I know, you cannot remove specific threads from the overall list of threads on the forum. Ignoring repeat offenders is the only way I am aware of.

 

[MrPixel]

As far as I know, you cannot remove specific threads from the overall list of threads on the forum. Ignoring repeat offenders is the only way I am aware of.

It's possible to ignore a thread... by ignoring the person who started it. It won't display in the index, nor will any other thread they start.

 

[Five_Inch_Heels]

Thanks. Simply having her speak formally could be all I need. I was hoping for something a little more distinctive, but I want it to be consistent, which it isn't right now.

This is why so many ESL authors get their stories sent back for ... well, you know the term ...

They speak taught English, not learned English. Theirs is more formal, book-ish, less conversational and sounds/reads stilted or clumsy.

 

[NotWise]

This is why so many ESL authors get their stories sent back for ... well, you know the term ...

They speak taught English, not learned English. Theirs is more formal, book-ish, less conversational and sounds/reads stilted or clumsy.

I'll cross that bridge if I come to it. The pattern would be limited to one character's dialog, so it may not be an issue.

Formality might not be enough to get the effect I'm looking for. I might drop articles, which I'm starting to do in my normal writing anyway, and I might drop the first-person pronoun. Whatever I do, I need to be able to keep it consistent.

 

[TarnishedPenny]

This is why so many ESL authors get their stories sent back for ... well, you know the term ...

They speak taught English, not learned English. Theirs is more formal, book-ish, less conversational and sounds/reads stilted or clumsy.

I've long maintained that true fluency in a language can be judged by the ability to tell a joke and have people laugh. Timing, intonation and emphasis are key for most jokes and that's where ESL (or any SL student) runs into difficulty.

 

[JuanSeiszFitzHall]

How do you handle characters with distinctive voices?

The ghost in the story I'm working on doesn't know a word of English, and her voice is a problem. To quote her, "I speak Japanese, Soto-sama. Perhaps English you hear?"

I've tried writing her with Japanese-like grammar (no articles, subject-object-verb sentence structure, etc) but that is hard to read and (worse) often ambiguous. I haven't settled on a consistent convention.

This might be a way around it. If what the ghost 'says' isn't audible sound, but an impression picked up extra-sensorily, the recipient's brain could heavy-lift organizing it into something understandable. Maybe with some misunderstanding, and the need for repetition.

 

[MillieDynamite]

I made a big mistake Saturday/Sunday night/wee-hours while watching Shane and stopped about halfway through. Too tired to keep my eyes open at 12:45, I left with over 20 minutes left. When Jo and I got up, we decided to restart it and let Donnie watch with us. We go straight to continue watching, on Hulu, can't find it. Go to the directory on TCM, it's gone. It was there for 30 Days of Oscar, and was pulled after it finished running.

WHAT THE ACTUAL FUCK!

 

[NuclearFairy]

I made a big mistake Saturday/Sunday night/wee-hours while watching Shane and stopped about halfway through. Too tired to keep my eyes open at 12:45, I left with over 20 minutes left. When Jo and I got up, we decided to restart it and let Donnie watch with us. We go straight to continue watching, on Hulu, can't find it. Go to the directory on TCM, it's gone. It was there for 30 Days of Oscar, and was pulled after it finished running.

WHAT THE ACTUAL FUCK!

Yeah, streaming services suck that way sometimes.

 

[NotWise]

I made a big mistake Saturday/Sunday night/wee-hours while watching Shane and stopped about halfway through. Too tired to keep my eyes open at 12:45, I left with over 20 minutes left. When Jo and I got up, we decided to restart it and let Donnie watch with us. We go straight to continue watching, on Hulu, can't find it. Go to the directory on TCM, it's gone. It was there for 30 Days of Oscar, and was pulled after it finished running.

WHAT THE ACTUAL FUCK!

If nothing else, you can rent it from Amazon for four bucks and have 30 days to watch it.

 

[ElectricBlue]

How do you handle characters with distinctive voices?

The ghost in the story I'm working on doesn't know a word of English, and her voice is a problem. To quote her, "I speak Japanese, Soto-sama. Perhaps English you hear?"

I'd drop the, "Perhaps English you hear."

Saying once she's speaking Japanese is enough, then continue to render her dialogue in English. Maybe give her one or two "formal English" oddities in the way she speaks, but I don't think you need much more than that. Less is more.

I did it this way:

"And now it is cold, and you give me your jacket to be warm."

As she spoke, I realised something about Delilah, the way she talked. She had a slight accent, a very precise way with her words, a non English lilt to her speech. She wasn't a native English speaker, Slavic maybe, or east European. My mind suddenly flashed back several decades, remembering a Russian girl on a train, a blonde woman from Leningrad going west to model, to be in magazines.

"You are a proper gentleman, Adam. And I will look neat in your jacket."

 

[MillieDynamite]

Naw, I've seen it before, it'll aviably somewhere else or back on there. I'll check Max tonight if we get done with what we have going right now.

If nothing else, you can rent it from Amazon for four bucks and have 30 days to watch it.

 

[Candy_Kane54]

Still wet this morning but it's going to get into the 70s today. My BP is trending lower and I'm very happy about it.

There's coffee brewing and the teapot is heating up. There are snacks on the counter and also a cornbread for anyone who wants some. There's a pot of chili on the stove to go with it.

I'll be over in the corner trying to get some electronic words on the screen. I got distracted by X this morning and didn't get any writing done yet. I've got to stop doom scrolling ...

 

[Five_Inch_Heels]

Do you always know what day it is without looking at a calendar?

Day.

Not date.

 

[TarnishedPenny]

I think today is Frugglesday. I invented that day to get seven day's work done in just five so I could have a weekend for once.

 

[Five_Inch_Heels]

Why do the days all have 'day' in them?

Isn't a day called Friday sort of like an ATM Machine or a hot water heater?

 

[TarnishedPenny]

Seriously? If so, each day is named after a God. Thursday, for instance, is named after Thor. That day of the week would’ve being called Thor’s Day.

 

[NuclearFairy]

Seriously? If so, each day is named after a God. Thursday, for instance, is named after Thor. That day of the week would’ve being called Thor’s Day.

What I don't get is why they days of the week aren't named after gods from just one pantheon. Thor's day, Norse god of thunder. Saturn's Day, Roman god of the harvest. And those're just the ones I know off the top of my head.

 

[crookedletter]

I believe at least Wednesday -- Odin (or Woden) -- and Friday -- Freya -- are also of Norse origins.

Isn't a day called Friday sort of like an ATM Machine or a hot water heater?

Only if you say Friday day...

 

[NotWise]

Xfinity's service is down (again) and I'm connected to the internet with my phone. Much more of this and I'll look into dropping Xfinity and getting a committed hotspot.

 

[BeechLeaf]

The Norse for 'Saturday' is laugardagr, literally "bath day". The weekly bath is in there with the sun, the moon, and the gods.

 

[MillieDynamite]

I've got my contacts, wearing them. I had to put them in and out several times. I think I have the knack of it, but since you only take them out one day a week, I won't know until next Thursday if I'm really going to like this shit or not.