The end of Democracy?

[AlexBailey]

The worse things get in the political climate the more attractive an artificial intelligence overlord becomes.

 

[rainsol]

Trump is NOT the end of democracy, but the response to Trump by various groups/individuals very well might be.

The United States does NOT have national elections, we have 50 separate state elections that are required to operate within certain, and limited, constitutional constraints. That being the case there is a legal argument that each state can determine who may, or may not, appear on the ballot(s). This is a legal theory that has never been truly tested in deference to allowing the people to make the final decision. The legal theory of the state electoral supremacy is in full bloom this election season. So let's explore this a little further.

IF any state, by whatever means, can determine who may or may not be on the ballots then any state can and then what is the purpose of having an election at all? Every election will be a "Hobson's Choice" from the standpoint of the citizen. It the state can exert that power then what is to stop them from doing so with statewide or local elections? The end result is that every individual state, depending on who's currently in power, can create a situation where only their particular group will ever be in power.

While the notion of the state making those determinations may sound seductive if your particular group is in power, is that what you really want? What is your alternative if the group you currently support no longer represents what you believe? Your electoral choice is reduced to a variation of what already exists. Iran, among other nations, is a good example of that consequence. Back to Hobson's Choice.

The question is ultimately going to end up in the Supreme Court and it's a thorny question indeed. If they decide that the states do NOT have that power then we have taken one more step towards nationalized elections. On the other hand to decide otherwise is to provide the various states the power to achieve exactly what I've discussed in the previous paragraphs. Neither decision is a particularly good decision.

I get what you wrote and it is indeed thorny. But the United States cannot let the big states decide who is going to be on the ballot. Colorado's attempt to use an amendment directed at the civil war and without due process is not the answer.

 

[ll74]

Let's be clear - there is nothing in the text of the Amendment which qualifies civil war as a requirement. If the Amendment only applies to that time period, then it should be repealed.

 

[AlexBailey]

Let's be clear - there is nothing in the text of the Amendment which qualifies civil war as a requirement. If the Amendment only applies to that time period, then it should be repealed.

Right? There’s also nothing in the 2a that specifically mentions “firearms”.

 

[Bray123]

 

[Chobham]

I get what you wrote and it is indeed thorny. But the United States cannot let the big states decide who is going to be on the ballot. Colorado's attempt to use an amendment directed at the civil war and without due process is not the answer.

But there's the problem, according to the Constitution the States DO have that authority.

The counters have already started. A Missouri senator has put forth a resolution to remove Biden from the ballot. Those discussions are also taking place in FL and TX. Other red states may follow suit. Should those events occur no candidate will win the electoral votes required to take office and the election will be thrown to the House of Representatives. No matter which way the House decides all hell is going to break loose. It will be 1824 on steroids.

 

[ll74]

But there's the problem, according to the Constitution the States DO have that authority.

The counters have already started. A Missouri senator has put forth a resolution to remove Biden from the ballot. Those discussions are also taking place in FL and TX. Other red states may follow suit. Should those events occur no candidate will win the electoral votes required to take office and the election will be thrown to the House of Representatives. No matter which way the House decides all hell is going to break loose. It will be 1824 on steroids.

Which is why SCOTUS needs to clarify what the 14th amendment actually means and how someone can be disqualified or not by it.

 

[rainsol]

But there's the problem, according to the Constitution the States DO have that authority.

The counters have already started. A Missouri senator has put forth a resolution to remove Biden from the ballot. Those discussions are also taking place in FL and TX. Other red states may follow suit. Should those events occur no candidate will win the electoral votes required to take office and the election will be thrown to the House of Representatives. No matter which way the House decides all hell is going to break loose. It will be 1824 on steroids.

Where does it say the states have that authority, they do not especially since the 14th amendment was neutered by the 1875 Amnesty act which gave amnesty and removed all penalties. You should check it it out.

 

[DeluxAuto]

The very people we see decrying the loss of democracy are the very same people doing all they can to stop the democratic process. Democrats "always" project what they are doing onto their enemies. ALWAYS.

You're fucking insane.

 

[YDB95]

Where does it say the states have that authority, they do not especially since the 14th amendment was neutered by the 1875 Amnesty act which gave amnesty and removed all penalties. You should check it it out.

You just got done arguing that the Fourteenth Amendment somehow doesn't apply because it was a Civil War era legislation. Not only does that not hold water, but the 1872 Amnesty Act did in fact pertain only to Civil War-era insurrectionists. In no way does it "neuter" the 14th for any modern-day insurrectionists (and to date, two US Courts of Appeals have agreed with that).

 

[Chobham]

Where does it say the states have that authority, they do not especially since the 14th amendment was neutered by the 1875 Amnesty act which gave amnesty and removed all penalties. You should check it it out.

I quoted the relevant federal election laws earlier. And add to that a reading of what the Constitution has to say re. the states organization of elections including the implicit ability to decide who is qualified to run for office.

Now, you, and many others in this thread, are focused on the 14th amendment re. insurrection. Trump hasn't even been charged with that crime but he's been removed from the ballot in two states so far. Those responsible for this have used the 14th as the excuse. My point is that no particular reason need be made at all. What is arbitrary to me may be justified to you, and vice versa. The Sec. of State of Texas, for example, could disqualify Biden on his failure to secure the border,, or the evidence that he engaged in influence peddling even though he's not been charged with any crime. A very real, and dangerous, Constitutional can of worms has been opened.

 

[RightField]

Seriously. Take the opportunity to support what you posted.

You used the words, please tell me how you define them. I looked them up and I don't think I they mean what you think they mean. Will you be honest?


Define:

* Insurrection

* Murder

I think you're just trying to be cutesy. Silly really.

 

[RightField]

I quoted the relevant federal election laws earlier. And add to that a reading of what the Constitution has to say re. the states organization of elections including the implicit ability to decide who is qualified to run for office.

Now, you, and many others in this thread, are focused on the 14th amendment re. insurrection. Trump hasn't even been charged with that crime but he's been removed from the ballot in two states so far. Those responsible for this have used the 14th as the excuse. My point is that no particular reason need be made at all. What is arbitrary to me may be justified to you, and vice versa. The Sec. of State of Texas, for example, could disqualify Biden on his failure to secure the border,, or the evidence that he engaged in influence peddling even though he's not been charged with any crime. A very real, and dangerous, Constitutional can of worms has been opened.

I saw a political comic a couple days ago that said "Democrats are saving Democracy by preventing the opposition from appearing on ballots". Pretty much sums it up.

 

[AlexBailey]

I think you're just trying to be cutesy. Silly really.

So no honesty from you? Big surprise

You’re intellectually dishonest.

 

[AlexBailey]

I think you're just trying to be cutesy. Silly really.

Look, this is easy.

* You said that Ashli Babbit’s killing was “murder”. I asked you to define murder.

* You said there was no insurrection. I asked you to define “insurrection”.


I challenge you to provide support for your own statements. Are you a liar or did you simply ‘miss speak’?

 

[Lazaran]

I saw a political comic a couple days ago that said "Democrats are saving Democracy by preventing the opposition from appearing on ballots". Pretty much sums it up.

Except "REPUBLICANS" are the ones filing the challenges to the corrupt orange traitor’s eligibility to be on the ballot…

See also:

https://www.scotusblog.com/2023/12/colorado-g-o-p-asks-justices-to-review-trump-ballot-eligibility/

“Colorado G.O.P. asks justices to review Trump ballot eligibility”​

Hope that ^ helps.



"Right”guide Jr.

 

[JoePepsiCo]

How ineloquent and unconvincing is it possible to be?

“Most people saw yet another variation on the reoccurring mostly peaceful American protest, only this time, the participants were too weak-kneed to actually burn, pillage and loot. Fucking pussies.”

You’ve posted it was a peaceful protest and not an insurrection, and now the above! Are you sure your contradictions aren’t overwhelming?

I see that your-hate inspired reading precludes your actual comprehension of that which you read.

As far as trolls go, you aren't even a good one. You could at least try to be entertaining...

 

[JoePepsiCo]

Most people didn’t see the event in its entirety, had to take the word of a biased media, much like the BLM riots.

They don't need a biased media, they have a script running around in their head that does a "Winston Smith" on everything they read.

During the Biden Administration gas prices have been decreased from $2.40/gal to $3.20/gal.

https://www.newsweek.com/how-gas-prices-changed-since-joe-biden-took-office-1823422

 

[JoePepsiCo]

The worse things get in the political climate the more attractive an artificial intelligence overlord becomes.

The bot AlexBailey sure could use an upgrade.

 

[JoePepsiCo]

I quoted the relevant federal election laws earlier. And add to that a reading of what the Constitution has to say re. the states organization of elections including the implicit ability to decide who is qualified to run for office.

Now, you, and many others in this thread, are focused on the 14th amendment re. insurrection. Trump hasn't even been charged with that crime but he's been removed from the ballot in two states so far. Those responsible for this have used the 14th as the excuse. My point is that no particular reason need be made at all. What is arbitrary to me may be justified to you, and vice versa. The Sec. of State of Texas, for example, could disqualify Biden on his failure to secure the border,, or the evidence that he engaged in influence peddling even though he's not been charged with any crime. A very real, and dangerous, Constitutional can of worms has been opened.

Republican states should deem Biden guilty of mishandling classified documents and take him off the ballot.

Good for the goose, good for the gander.

 

[Chobham]

I saw a political comic a couple days ago that said "Democrats are saving Democracy by preventing the opposition from appearing on ballots". Pretty much sums it up.

Democracy Iranian style.

 

[JoePepsiCo]

When Mao is your mentor your little playbook is red...

Or to put it in the new and approved Biden Administration national language, el Libro poco rojo.

 

[DeluxAuto]

I saw a political comic a couple days ago that said "Democrats are saving Democracy by preventing the opposition from appearing on ballots". Pretty much sums it up.

Which party has more reps who have been charged with voter fraud, dumbass?

 

[DeluxAuto]

Republican states should deem Biden guilty of mishandling classified documents and take him off the ballot.

Good for the goose, good for the gander.

Yeah! And charge Hillary for selling dead babies out of a pizza shop!

 

[LLCox]

I saw a political comic a couple days ago that said "Democrats are saving Democracy by preventing the opposition from appearing on ballots". Pretty much sums it up.

No, as usual the repubican'ts have shot themselves in the foot... again. When you run with trump YOU pay the price.