The hardcore stuff:enemas/fisting/knife-play/needles/strangling...

[incubus'_sub]

Etoile, that was one of the best & simplest explanations that I have read. Well said.

Hi Rosie. Don't worry, most of us got your meaning without even thinking about it. The thought of branding makes me very wary too, having bred horses & watching the process quite often. That said, fisting, breath play, knife play, whipping my back are all part of our scenes. My Master's mark is tattooed on my body in a soft & secret spot. To me, not extreme at all, just good & something we both enjoy.

Then again, I can't bear the pain of a spanking on my ass so this is only ever used as a (thankfully rare) punishment. Different strokes for different folks & none of it right, wrong, better or worse.

 

[A Desert Rose]

Etoile, that was one of the best & simplest explanations that I have read. Well said.

Hi Rosie. Don't worry, most of us got your meaning without even thinking about it. The thought of branding makes me very wary too, having bred horses & watching the process quite often. That said, fisting, breath play, knife play, whipping my back are all part of our scenes. My Master's mark is tattooed on my body in a soft & secret spot. To me, not extreme at all, just good & something we both enjoy.

Then again, I can't bear the pain of a spanking on my ass so this is only ever used as a (thankfully rare) punishment. Different strokes for different folks & none of it right, wrong, better or worse.

Hey, dolly!

You know, like Etoile said... somethings just cause my "wow" factor to perk up.

Fisting is another of those, but in a different way. I've said it before and I'll say it again, my chances of ever being fisted rank right up there with my chances of seeing Rome. Ain't gonna happen in my lifetime... I'm pretty sure of that.

I had a Dom who wanted to tattoo me and then he moved up to the branding idea. I guess if I'd have ever done it, it would have been for Him.

Like I said, I never say never. ;-)

 

[catalina_francisco]

You'll find some of them among the hardcore sadists and masochists (the people into sensation, not power?)

Not sure those such as ourselves who it seems are often considered to be into the extreme end of SM by some means we prefer sensation over power. For us, sensation without TPE, which is how we choose to live, is sort of redundant and empty. I have met twits in the vanilla dating pool who would gladly knock me or any woman around, but that to me just is not going to work and I have been notorious for telling them exactly where they belong which believe me was not standing over me or anyone with a whip, or even in a respected position in any community. There does seem to be this common belief that in many things people into BDSM do/feel/experience, that it has to be an either/or situation when really it can be all encompassing and complementary.

I knew a man once who was something of a bdsm Don Juan on another message board a long time ago, who all the girls who didn't mind pretentiousness up the butt (about 99 percent of them) swooned over. He was an extremist snob and claimed he wouldn't even meet any woman who wouldn't agree to take it as hard as he wanted to dish it out. A lot of inexperienced women, who had crushes on him and thought they could take all kinds of "intense sensation" just because they'd never experienced it before, went to play with him and were shocked to the core by the experience, sobbing, horrified, totally demoralized, self-hating, the whole package. Even just singletailing somebody inexperienced with no warmup can be a pretty shocking experience if they aren't prepared for it (or looking forward to it). The asshat was too lazy, most times, to do any aftercare, too. He figured they'd asked for it and he'd educated them. He let others pick up the pieces. As you can probably guess, I didn't have too high a regard for this fellow, but he had a rep back then among the less critical of being some sort of bdsm guru so he got away with a lot of awful stuff...and an awful lot of stuff.

Hmmm, well have to agree with you here. I see it a lot on various boards where one or two Dominants who can talk big and know how to sell a particular image can actually have nearly every female sub swooning when in actual fact they don't have a partner (play or otherwise), have a history of short, failed relationships, and don't even in many cases get anywhere near a submissive in a play situation to do the things they promote themselves as being very experienced and knowledgeable with, and yet their word is considered gospel without any evidence beside words on a screen to back them up. It is no wonder some get into sticky situations if they don't look past the words and dramatic flash to see if there is any real substance to the whole picture. Your story demonstrates it perfectly.

Catalina

 

[alice_underneath]

This might be controversial of me, but yes, I think it is a commonly held assumption among those without much experience themselves. I don't think anybody would necessarily admit to it, but newbies probably do feel that edgeplay is "better" than regular kinky play. By extension, I would say that those with more experience in the lifestyle know that it isn't what you do that matters, but how you do it, especially if it is in a way that works for an individual couple or group.

Personally, I am kind of in the middle...I am at a point where I can recognize that whatever each couple does with each other is "proper" BDSM. If it works for them, then they are doing it "right" and not any more or lesser than other couples. And yet sometimes I think "wow, now that is serious stuff."

Thank you very much for taking the time to respond to my question. I appreciate the honesty and clarity of your reply.

What you say here makes a lot of sense. It also explains why the implication that someone holds a "more extreme is better" point of view might offend.

Thanks again,
Alice

 

[Slutacus]

Not sure those such as ourselves who it seems are often considered to be into the extreme end of SM by some means we prefer sensation over power. For us, sensation without TPE, which is how we choose to live, is sort of redundant and empty. I have met twits in the vanilla dating pool who would gladly knock me or any woman around, but that to me just is not going to work and I have been notorious for telling them exactly where they belong which believe me was not standing over me or anyone with a whip, or even in a respected position in any community. There does seem to be this common belief that in many things people into BDSM do/feel/experience, that it has to be an either/or situation when really it can be all encompassing and complementary.



Hmmm, well have to agree with you here. I see it a lot on various boards where one or two Dominants who can talk big and know how to sell a particular image can actually have nearly every female sub swooning when in actual fact they don't have a partner (play or otherwise), have a history of short, failed relationships, and don't even in many cases get anywhere near a submissive in a play situation to do the things they promote themselves as being very experienced and knowledgeable with, and yet their word is considered gospel without any evidence beside words on a screen to back them up. It is no wonder some get into sticky situations if they don't look past the words and dramatic flash to see if there is any real substance to the whole picture. Your story demonstrates it perfectly.

Catalina

Hi there Catalina!

In response to your first paragraph: Well, the sensation-over-power folks used to have quite a little cult thing going, most were based out of SanFran, and Fakier M. was a figurehead for them, but who knows? I've long lost touch with them. Maybe they've grown up and realized that having some human company along with the sensation is a worthwhile thing?

Response to second: I've known "bark but no bite" people, too, and not just in bdsm forums! In a medium of just words (and sometimes images), the person who is highly skilled at using them, and doesn't might applying them to his or her advantage is king. The Don Juan I knew was not all words unfortunately. He delivered. The coldness and harshness of his delivery and the alienation it tended to cause in the women who romanticized him was the problem. To him, they were just bodies to hurt for his enjoyment and minds to awe with his extremes. They weren't people. The women expected something more--some sort of emotional connection, however small--and so were often crushed by the encounters with him. Sad thing is, a lot went back for more.

 

[catalina_francisco]

Hi there Catalina!

In response to your first paragraph: Well, the sensation-over-power folks used to have quite a little cult thing going, most were based out of SanFran, and Fakier M. was a figurehead for them, but who knows? I've long lost touch with them. Maybe they've grown up and realized that having some human company along with the sensation is a worthwhile thing?

I have no doubt those into sensation only still exist, though I find it is not so much physical sensation for many but what they perceive as desired attention in groups and public clubs/events. That is part of why we do not socialise and play in those type situations...we prefer playing in private settings, usually just the 2 of us with perhaps a sub or 2 extra from time to time, and living it on a day to day basis as opposed to the public arena.

Catalina

 

[A Desert Rose]

I have no doubt those into sensation only still exist, though I find it is not so much physical sensation for many but what they perceive as desired attention in groups and public clubs/events ...
Catalina

I think that's a key point for many, both in real life and online.

 

[Slutacus]

I have no doubt those into sensation only still exist, though I find it is not so much physical sensation for many but what they perceive as desired attention in groups and public clubs/events. That is part of why we do not socialise and play in those type situations...we prefer playing in private settings, usually just the 2 of us with perhaps a sub or 2 extra from time to time, and living it on a day to day basis as opposed to the public arena.

Catalina

Excellent point. Many of the sensation people I knew did crave attention. They did their play in public or group situations, or, if it were private, they later wrote extensive "scene reports" of the activity online and so got attention that way. These long, boring (well, boring to me) "kiss and tell" posts of private sexual experiences, particularly with "forum stars," were pretty much a sacred institution on one board I used to read and worked to raise one's popularity and opinion rating among the masses better than almost anything else, particularly if the poster was a woman. (On Lit, the equivelent is a sexy woman posting nude avatars and AM pic threads.) Hmm, maybe that's why all the ladies wanted to play with the Don Juan. So they'd have something to "tell" online, later! ;-p

 

[A Desert Rose]

Excellent point. Many of the sensation people I knew did crave attention. They did their play in public or group situations, or, if it were private, they later wrote extensive "scene reports" of the activity online and so got attention that way. These long, boring (well, boring to me) "kiss and tell" posts of private sexual experiences, particularly with "forum stars," were pretty much a sacred institution on one board I used to read and worked to raise one's popularity and opinion rating among the masses better than almost anything else, particularly if the poster was a woman. (On Lit, the equivelent is a sexy woman posting nude avatars and AM pic threads.) Hmm, maybe that's why all the ladies wanted to play with the Don Juan. So they'd have something to "tell" online, later! ;-p

A little off topic but I believe that avatars are nothing more than advertising. They are what you want people to "think" you are, in a great many cases. Especially those AVs that are not of the poster. Basically, I think that's very misleading and I never use AVs that are not of me, in one way or another.

And I also have to agree with you regarding the "forum stars." You'll see that from time to time on here too, but I don't think it's nearly as prevelant as it is in other forums.

 

[alice_underneath]

People are responding to this with how they personally feel, which is fine, but I want to address the general community part of this question. <snip>

Thank you for taking the time to write such a detailed and interesting response to my question.

Alice

 

[catalina_francisco]

Excellent point. Many of the sensation people I knew did crave attention. They did their play in public or group situations, or, if it were private, they later wrote extensive "scene reports" of the activity online and so got attention that way. These long, boring (well, boring to me) "kiss and tell" posts of private sexual experiences, particularly with "forum stars," were pretty much a sacred institution on one board I used to read and worked to raise one's popularity and opinion rating among the masses better than almost anything else, particularly if the poster was a woman. (On Lit, the equivelent is a sexy woman posting nude avatars and AM pic threads.) Hmm, maybe that's why all the ladies wanted to play with the Don Juan. So they'd have something to "tell" online, later! ;-p

Ah, but the good thing is if you are perceptive, over time you begin to be able to tell the difference between those who genuinely love and possibly share knowledge of what and how they do things (in word or pics) as a means of both learning more themselves and sharing knowledge, from those who do it as a 'look at me' thing solely and uppermost...it begins to be glaringly clear and most of those type people will openly admit it themselves. There are also those who do go for the 'look at me' thing because they are exhibitionists and it feeds a need in them and others, and also can lead to a lot of knowledge sharing if they are being honest.

I think there is a place for all diversities of posters, though I do get a little stressed when someone either promotes totally unsafe practices as being safe, or don't know what they are talking about but manage to fool some newer people into believing they do, thus exposing them to a dangerous situation if they follow the advice. It is actually one point for pics I think because as ADR points out in a way, it adds authenticity and realism to the person and their behaviour more so than saying they did xyz and this is how it felt etc., when they might never have come near to someone in this world outside their fantasies. Let's face it, anyone can type words on a screen, but few are willing to put a face and body to those words, especially if it is going to expose their words as dishonest or BS.

A discussion board relies on its posters to continue existing and I think pics are fine and great, nude or otherwise, but then I am also not an advocate of the repressed US vision of how sexuality should be buried and hidden and 'normalised' to a sanitary level where it is mostly for creating life and only in the missionary position and within marriage and under God's approving inspection. I am all for sharing of knowledge and sexual freedom, and definately will perve on anyone who wants to flash their naked bod.

Catalina

 

[alice_underneath]

I am also not an advocate of the repressed US vision of how sexuality should be buried and hidden and 'normalised' to a sanitary level where it is mostly for creating life and only in the missionary position and within marriage and under God's approving inspection.

Some criticism of the US is ill-founded, but yours here is not.

Now before anyone gets their red-white-and-blue dander up, I'll state the obvious: I am just one American woman, who lives in Suburbia, USA. I do not claim familiarity with all communities in this country, and I don't speak for anyone but myself.

From my perspective, Catalina, you have summarized the vision of sexuality professed by those seeking a veneer of decency or legitimacy in America quite well. This is particularly true among some members of the religious right.

There are those, for example, who espouse love & understanding out of one side of their mouths, and abject hatred for homosexuals out of the other. The hypocrisy is nothing short of nauseating.

However, as anyone who has been exposed to American pop culture knows, there is a flip side to the culture of repressed sexuality. Sex is everywhere - TV, movies, music, advertising, etc. - and most of it is far different from the "sanitary" vision you described.

But we're primarily talking about James Bond style sex here. The woman is young and perfect, the guy is a stud, they meet and have orgasms, and then she is discarded. These fantasies have their place, I suppose. But they hardly represent an honest celebration of the complexity of human sexuality.

You have hit on one major reason why I visit this Board. For the most part, people here engage in a respectful and open discussion of sexuality in all of its textures, flavors, and hues.

And I agree with your comments about personal photos and descriptions of sexual experiences. If, for example, a 40-year-old woman has a wonderful sexual experience which she is excited about and wants to share with her virtual friends (either through text descriptions of the event or a photo of her nude, bound breasts), my response is going to be: You go, girl! Thanks for sharing.

Alice

 

[ThorkelGriersen]

Ah, but the good thing is if you are perceptive, over time you begin to be able to tell the difference between those who genuinely love and possibly share knowledge of what and how they do things (in word or pics) as a means of both learning more themselves and sharing knowledge, from those who do it as a 'look at me' thing solely and uppermost...it begins to be glaringly clear and most of those type people will openly admit it themselves. There are also those who do go for the 'look at me' thing because they are exhibitionists and it feeds a need in them and others, and also can lead to a lot of knowledge sharing if they are being honest.



Catalina

I couldn't agree more. I have been invited to private play parties-just 10 or 12 people. Unfortunately they seem to be of the "I'll go father than you-look at me!" It reminds me of a wild frat party where idiots try to out drink each other. I always politely decline.

 

[catalina_francisco]

If, for example, a 40-year-old woman has a wonderful sexual experience which she is excited about and wants to share with her virtual friends (either through text descriptions of the event or a photo of her nude, bound breasts), my response is going to be: You go, girl! Thanks for sharing.

Alice

LOL, you been peeking at my breasts in that notorious bondage class thread?!

Catalina

 

[alice_underneath]

LOL, you been peeking at my breasts in that notorious bondage class thread?!

Catalina

Honestly, no! I was referring to a specific forum member, but not you.

LOL!! Catalina, I do not even know which thread you're referring to here.

Perhaps I'll have to find and bump it.

* dashes off to the library *

 

[catalina_francisco]

Honestly, no! I was referring to a specific forum member, but not you.

LOL!! Catalina, I do not even know which thread you're referring to here.

Perhaps I'll have to find and bump it.

* dashes off to the library *

LOL, here it is .

Catalina

 

[alice_underneath]

LOL, here it is .

Catalina

This is 100% sincere:

You go, girl! Thanks for sharing.

Alice

 

[catalina_francisco]

This is 100% sincere:

You go, girl! Thanks for sharing.

Alice

LOL, I bought a big bag full of pretty ropes and 3 crops back from my trip home, just for himself to use on me....so far we have christened 1 rope and all 3 crops several times over.

Catalina

 

[Etoile]

A little off topic but I believe that avatars are nothing more than advertising. They are what you want people to "think" you are, in a great many cases. Especially those AVs that are not of the poster. Basically, I think that's very misleading and I never use AVs that are not of me, in one way or another.

Damn, ADR, I agree 100% with everything you say here - not too many posts that I can say that about!

I'm thinking of switching my avatar, actually. Still of me, of course. More recent, and in color. Cropped down from this photo...head and shoulders only, with the linebacker-ness cut out. (lesson learned: halters are not my thing, I swear I don't look like a linebacker IRL!)

 

[A Desert Rose]

Damn, ADR, I agree 100% with everything you say here - not too many posts that I can say that about!

I'm thinking of switching my avatar, actually. Still of me, of course. More recent, and in color. Cropped down from this photo...head and shoulders only, with the linebacker-ness cut out. (lesson learned: halters are not my thing, I swear I don't look like a linebacker IRL!)

I don't see you looking at all like a linebacker. I think you are being far too critical because I'm sure no one else sees what you're seeing.

I've always thought it was a lovely AV. But I'm sure whatever you pick will be equally as nice. The one you have posted in your text is very nice.

I'm sorry to break your record in agreeing with me. ;-)

 

[Etoile]

I don't see you looking at all like a linebacker. I think you are being far too critical because I'm sure no one else sees what you're seeing.

I've always thought it was a lovely AV. But I'm sure whatever you pick will be equally as nice. The one you have posted in your text is very nice.

I'm sorry to break your record in agreeing with me. ;-)

Actually, I agree with you a fair bit, and I'm always engaged by conversation with you! I just almost never agree with everything anybody says.

You're probably right, too. I think we are always most critical of ourselves when it comes to things like photographs. But I still think my shoulders look huge in that! Oh well. I probably won't be changing my picture here anytime soon, I've only changed it once in the five years I've been here, LOL! But I do think about it. (Which one did you mean by "the one posted in my text"?)

 

[A Desert Rose]

Actually, I agree with you a fair bit, and I'm always engaged by conversation with you! I just almost never agree with everything anybody says.

You're probably right, too. I think we are always most critical of ourselves when it comes to things like photographs. But I still think my shoulders look huge in that! Oh well. I probably won't be changing my picture here anytime soon, I've only changed it once in the five years I've been here, LOL! But I do think about it. (Which one did you mean by "the one posted in my text"?)

I actually agree with you quite often too. I just don't sometimes say so because, how many "I agree with you's" can one thread take? LOL There has to be some differing of opinion I guess to make it lively. And often times what i would have said has already been said. No point in regurgitating someone else's ideas, especially if they can say it better than I can. And lots of the time, you do say it better than I.

I was referring to the color picture. That is really very nice. But so is this one. ;-)

 

[incubus'_sub]

Etoile, everyone loves your AV. Incubus has still to get around to taking a photo for mine. Yes, it will be me. Luckily I'm not in too bad a shape at 51, but you'll all get to decide that for yourselves I suppose.

Lively, Rose, you wanted lively. Well, here it is.

Alice. You write well. You make sense. You have some very valid thoughts to contribute to this board. You can even spell. LOL But....you do have to stop finding some offence in so many offhand, throwaway, generalised comments. Lots of us are busy people. We read something, we write a quick note & don't have time to go over & over it in case it contains something that somebody, somewhere just might take offence at rather than just accepting the gist of what we mean.

Most of us are not particularly politically correct. Hell, lots of us beat & cut each other just for fun. That makes most of us pretty thick skinned as well as plain speaking folks. We have a bit of fun, we argue & disagree, so what !

What we don't want to have to do is spend our precious time nitpicking about common figures of speech & the like.

 

[Etoile]

Well, the sensation-over-power folks used to have quite a little cult thing going, most were based out of SanFran, and Fakier M. was a figurehead for them, but who knows? I've long lost touch with them. Maybe they've grown up and realized that having some human company along with the sensation is a worthwhile thing?

Just a comment here - if I understand you correctly, you said that Fakir Musafar was an icon for these people and not a member of the group himself. I'm not sure if you are speaking of the modern primitive movement or something else, but I really don't see that Fakir's practices have a whole lot to do with BDSM. I think he is about sensation, and very deliberately so, without any pretenses about being anything else. There are elements of power play in some of what he does, but I don't think he is claiming to be anything that is usually discussed on this board.

 

[A Desert Rose]

Just a comment here - if I understand you correctly, you said that Fakir Musafar was an icon for these people and not a member of the group himself. I'm not sure if you are speaking of the modern primitive movement or something else, but I really don't see that Fakir's practices have a whole lot to do with BDSM. I think he is about sensation, and very deliberately so, without any pretenses about being anything else. There are elements of power play in some of what he does, but I don't think he is claiming to be anything that is usually discussed on this board.

Etoile, who is this guy? I've never heard of him.