The lowest of the low

[Maria2394]

yeh, it does sound a little hypocritical.

This is not about wailing about low scores here, this is more about anonymous assholes corrupting what could be a very valuble feedback loop.
And some of them, just way out of line.

arriba-anonamouse

BTW what are noobs?

amen!! I tried to post something to that effect earlier, but as you all know, I have a POS for a computer. Perks left awesome comments too, where the heck is she? And she taught me more about my own ego than I could have ever learned on my own. I miss her

 

[PatCarrington]

Comments can and should be a useful tool for honest (well nearly) feedback, an education process for all. It should be a reasonable part of that discussion about how to make poetry better.


there is no question about that. but how to get them?

i found, when i was posting poetry in 'new poems', i got high-quality comments from only a handful of writers, and always the same handful.

so now, i communicate with every one of them privately. we send poetry back and forth and critique in depth, far greater depth than one can in public comment.

anyone interested in in-depth criticism can do the same thing, and should.

Damn it, YDD and Tara Blackwood, jd4george left quality comments.


they sure as hell did, but not near the quality they all have provided me in private, and i to them in return (except YDD, who never shared any poetry with me. she had already stopped commenting when i got here, though i read, and still do read, her commentary on the poems of others.).


And I learned more from their comments, than anything over here, with the exception of Interact.

i have found operating on the threads, and especially in PM's, to be a far greater help than receiving commentary on 'new poems'. there was too much general praise i found, and not enough insight given. and i also found when i tried to give in-depth critique to some, i got hammered in private for being critical. it happened once too often, and i'll be damned if i'm going to keep the commentary at the fluff level.

i agree the interact threads were spectacular.


I don't care if someone says something of mine bites, give me the reasons, give me a name. Next time it will either bite less or bite more, depending on the mood I'm in.

if you are disturbed by the lack of comments, post here on the threads, and actively seek out opinion.

it works.

and you are not the kind who reacts poorly to critique, so you will get honesty.

newcomers need to learn, i think, that proper reaction to constructive criticism is the only way to ensure it keeps coming. react poorly, and the honesty will dry up.


GET RID of the anonymous votes and comments. This is not about wailing about low scores here, this is more about anonymous assholes corrupting what could be a very valuble feedback loop.
And some of them, just way out of line.

that would be fine and utopic, but how?

if anonymity is not allowed, you will see a rash of new tag lines, no?

we all know or should, that the world is not fair. if it were, young children would live to a ripe old age and not die of leukemia before they have a chance at what many of us take for granted. one tragedy of the many i'm sure we could all recount.

let's all write, and help each other the best way we know how, and the anonymous assholes can do what they do as we cast them into the vast ocean of the ignored.

arriba-anonamouse

BTW what are noobs?

arriba.

 

[Angeline]

yeh, it does sound a little hypocritical.
Angeline got how many comments, how many did Angeline leave?

Comments can and should be a useful tool for honest (well nearly) feedback, an education process for all. It should be a reasonable part of that discussion about how to make poetry better. Damn it, YDD and Tara Blackwood, jd4george left quality comments. And I learned more from their comments, than anything over here, with the exception of Interact.
I don't care if someone says something of mine bites, give me the reasons, give me a name. Next time it will either bite less or bite more, depending on the mood I'm in.
GET RID of the anonymous votes and comments. This is not about wailing about low scores here, this is more about anonymous assholes corrupting what could be a very valuble feedback loop.
And some of them, just way out of line.

arriba-anonamouse

BTW what are noobs?

You go back and check the history of public comments and the history of the new poems threads (both of them) and you'll see that Angeline put in some pretty bitchin review time for a long time. And I don't get near as many comments as I did back then--I guess cause I hardly ever comment now, but my life has gotten complicated of late. I do read the new poems fairly often though and when something moves me to comment, I do--or I send feedback or a pm.

 

[twelveoone]

Pat, Angeline, whatever works for you
Boo, thanks for telling me what noobs are
Pat,
"newcomers need to learn, i think, that proper reaction to constructive criticism is the only way to ensure it keeps coming. react poorly, and the honesty will dry up."
here is where I agree with you the most

"if anonymity is not allowed, you will see a rash of new tag lines, no?"
here it does not matter, if a comment is made, that can be questioned you have an address that can be reached

"they sure as hell did, but not near the quality they all have provided me in private, and i to them in return (except YDD, who never shared any poetry with me. she had already stopped commenting when i got here, though i read, and still do read, her commentary on the poems of others.). "
This depends on what you are doing
I am quite happy with the comments I have received, I consider myself blessed. In my case, at least, I stand by my statement. I am attempting to write for a general audience, most of what I do, is a little non-standard. When someone tells me they see something off page, that was there with me when I wrote it , I do not think I would get that in a PM critique. I have been blown away by some of the comments Maria, and a few others have left. Not for nothing did I leave that Dali picture.

I have posted over here.

Now the PM critique is fine, but it is a closed loop, often of like minds. I figured out "poetry" is too wide open to operate in a closed loop.

I would not get the reaction I get, asking for it. There is no obligation to leave any comments. I am a little dismayed I am not called for more mistakes, or suggestions for improvement. Despite that most have given me information I can use.

Now if some asshole wants to come out and double zero me and give me a long list of reasons why, (I would consider him an asshole, only because he was wasting his time on something that he thought can not possibly be worth saving)but I would thank him for it, it gives me something to work with, it may be useful.
This is not done - one reason, often an invalid reason. Only once did I get one, funny as hell "This is your brain on LSD'", well shit it was about Timothy Leary's last ride.

Those double zeros are done only to hurt. Maybe you and Angeline, a few others, being published and generally gratified with your work can be in a position to say it does not mean anything, it doesn't to you. It may to others. Maybe I am a utopian asshole, but it sickens me to see an honest attempt from a "newb" dissed and dismissed.

antisense, wonderful concept, check it out, make sure you read it right "antisense"

 

[twelveoone]

amen!! I tried to post something to that effect earlier, but as you all know, I have a POS for a computer. Perks left awesome comments too, where the heck is she? And she taught me more about my own ego than I could have ever learned on my own. I miss her

PERKS ROCKED

 

[PatCarrington]

Maybe you and Angeline, a few others, being published and generally gratified with your work can be in a position to say it does not mean anything, it doesn't to you. It may to others. Maybe I am a utopian asshole, but it sickens me to see an honest attempt from a "newb" dissed and dismissed.

i never said it does not mean anything.

i know comments are extremely valuable to novice poets. but many do not take them well, misinterpret them. i figure if a newbie sticks around and is serious enough, they'll find their way to the boards, where, in my mind, they can learn at a much faster rate than from a few one or two line comments in the 'new poems.'

and i certainly never called you an 'asshole', just utopian.

i also hate a newbie's poem dissed with anonymous venom. we have a few here though, that seem fiesty enough to fight back.

that's all it takes, the unwillingness to quit.

 

[normal jean]

shhh, we must speak of Maria as a third person orher computer will realize this is all just a ruse

she says that she feels very blessed than anyone ever reads any of her work, much less takes thetime and effort to make a comment. she also says that when she first began posting, there was no PC format and comments were by email or PC. she got a few very helpful ones that were not signed, and she always thought maybe it was cordie or eve being helpful andnot knowing how maria might react.

One poem, some other Time, she remembers especially, the person said, this is very good , dear, but could benefit with some tightening. Maria took that to heart and always appreciated the kind words. we both understand how commenting puts a person "out there" and they take a risk. also, some newbies might feel hurt, esp when they pour their heart and soul and bottle oftequila into a poem and it gets low marks. oh well, I just saw a coment perks left on 30 seconds for 5 mil and remembered how proud I was when she left that, the way she had blistered me over so many things, saying, girl you are SO much better than this...but she was never cruel or hateful and never anon. I loved her

 

[twelveoone]

i never said it does not mean anything.

i know comments are extremely valuable to novice poets. but many do not take them well, misinterpret them. i figure if a newbie sticks around and is serious enough, they'll find their way to the boards, where, in my mind, they can learn at a much faster rate than from a few one or two line comments in the 'new poems.'

and i certainly never called you an 'asshole', just utopian.

i also hate a newbie's poem dissed with anonymous venom. we have a few here though, that seem fiesty enough to fight back.

that's all it takes, the unwillingness to quit.

Pat, if someone infers that you called me an asshole, I aplogise. I know you did not. I called myself. As said before, and will say again if very real terms you add grace here.

(and no we are not gay either)
A further note: Pat and I argue, in the best meaning of the word, what is done here between he and I, I consider the real meaning of Agruement, His case, My case, somewhere is the truth, the truth is a slippery devil. Neither Pat nor I are.
I have a great amount of respect for him, agree with most of his positions, just not all of them.

 

[Guest]

PERKS ROCKED

She still does in other boards. I wish she'd come home.

 

[flyguy69]

Pat, if someone infers that you called me an asshole, I aplogise. I know you did not. I called myself. As said before, and will say again if very real terms you add grace here.

(and no we are not gay either)
A further note: Pat and I argue, in the best meaning of the word, what is done here between he and I, I consider the real meaning of Agruement, His case, My case, somewhere is the truth, the truth is a slippery devil. Neither Pat nor I are.
I have a great amount of respect for him, agree with most of his positions, just not all of them.

Twelver, I don't care if you agree with Pat. A little bit or a lot. And I don't care if Pat agrees with you. And I would think a good deal less of both of you if that were a goal.

Right now you provide two helpful and insightful opinions to the work posted here. If you start agreeing on everything, that number is reduced to one.

Continue to say what you think and trust that many of us value your thoughts without regard for Pat's concurrence.

You rock.

 

[PatCarrington]

Pat, if someone infers that you called me an asshole, I aplogise. I know you did not. I called myself.

no one else inferred that.

i thought you did. i'm glad to hear you didn't.

i must have misread your post.

 

[BooMerengue]

She still does in other boards. I wish she'd come home.

she did... and it's scary...

 

[Guest]

she did... and it's scary...

Don't let her know you're scared. She can smell fear.

 

[eagleyez]

She still does in other boards. I wish she'd come home.

Me too. She cut to the chase and shrugged off tedious discourse.

Pat-ya listening?

You may be renamed Ishmael at this rate.

 

[eagleyez]

I have received positive and constructively negative comments about my writing.

One can delete such comments with no concern. Thats the backbone of this place.

Do it-Dont do it, just dont prattle on about it in some psuedo academic lingo.

I'd rather read a good tax form by comparison.

I'd rather send a PM than talk about it.

Hmmm, think I will.

 

[perks]

critiquing without style or ownership? tsk. tsk.

 

[BooMerengue]

I have received positive and constructively negative comments about my writing.

One can delete such comments with no concern. Thats the backbone of this place.

Do it-Dont do it, just dont prattle on about it in some psuedo academic lingo.

I'd rather read a good tax form by comparison.

I'd rather send a PM than talk about it.

Hmmm, think I will.

lol

Ahhh. The wonder of a few well placed words!

 

[The Mutt]

I have gotten used to being trolled. It's the price I pay for being opinionated. But now the dickless wonder is going after Miss Oatlash too. Fucking scum.

 

[BooMerengue]

I have gotten used to being trolled. It's the price I pay for being opinionated. But now the dickless wonder is going after Miss Oatlash too. Fucking scum.

If I remember correctly Miss O- who's work I like- went from a 5 to a 4.62? Thats not being trolled- thats 1 or 2 people giving a 4 instead of a 5, right? Thats not bad at all, I don't think.

IMHO

 

[*Catbabe*]

lol

Ahhh. The wonder of a few well placed words!

Ah, yes, the wonder. I wonder when we started laughing and congratulating someone for writing public insults and essentially telling another person to shut up. My six year old knows better.

 

[BooMerengue]

Ah, yes, the wonder. I wonder when we started laughing and congratulating someone for writing public insults and essentially telling another person to shut up. My six year old knows better.

I'm hoping you just misunderstood, Cat. I neither laughed at nor congratulated anyone for writing public insults. I merely admired eagleyez's words of wisdom.

 

[twelveoone]

I have received positive and constructively negative comments about my writing.

One can delete such comments with no concern. Thats the backbone of this place.

Do it-Dont do it, just dont prattle on about it in some psuedo academic lingo.

I'd rather read a good tax form by comparison.

I'd rather send a PM than talk about it.

Hmmm, think I will.

psuedo academic lingo?
prattle?

 

[twelveoone]

Twelver, I don't care if you agree with Pat. A little bit or a lot. And I don't care if Pat agrees with you. And I would think a good deal less of both of you if that were a goal.

Right now you provide two helpful and insightful opinions to the work posted here. If you start agreeing on everything, that number is reduced to one.

Continue to say what you think and trust that many of us value your thoughts without regard for Pat's concurrence.

You rock.

Thanks - fly
Wasn't the point. In no uncertain terms. Where we disagree, we disagree with respect, despite the heat of the argument.
Again, the same should be with criticism, it should not be personal. We are all human, we all make mistakes, criitcism should relect that.
We are human
We make mistakes
We can all learn something.

 

[twelveoone]

critiquing without style or ownership? tsk. tsk.

nice to see

 

[RhymeFairy]

Good Mornin'

Hi ya fellow poets.

I had to throw my two cents in here also.
I am glad to get any comments.
Good and yes, even bad.
Likewise I think we all learn from it.
It does give us backbone and a lil more spirit.
I am glad to be here online with all of you reading, and learning. That is one of my purposes for being here.
The other you ask? Just good ole down home fun. Ya'll are a ripp roarin rowdy bunch. So much fun to talk to and interact with. I have met a lot of friends here. Thats just it. If you can not be honest about this here then what the heck are ya doin here?
Good or bad we all learn and grow.

imho...(said with tounge in cheek~laughin*)

*Smiles* at ya
Lookin forward to *readin ya* ~ *winks*

RhymeFairy~