The lowest of the low

[WickedEve]

I might fall in between those firm peaks of yours!

Uh oh, I hear the Principal Eve's heels in the hall. I'll bet she's going to flog me. Gotta go.

I have something else in mind for you.

 

[Wanton Vixxxen]

Where do I begin???

WOW!!! I saw all of the new posts this afternoon {06-10}, but had to go to work and was unable to reply to any until now. First, I feel I need to get into Pat Carrington's head {honest, Pat, I won't stay there too long! lol} but I will ask if you would just pretend you were Me for a few minutes and listen to what is a true situation and then tell Me what you would have done different than Me, okay?
This pertains to the one and only comment I have ever deleted from My work. It was quite a while ago {before I began writing for the poetry side of Lit} and had logged onto My View Submissions page and found a comment on one of My stories that read, "I hope you can give better blow jobs than you can write, sweetie" and of course, it was bravely signed as annonymous. In the meantime, {still hadn't deleted it yet} as I was recouperating from what I considered to be a disgusting pervert's attempted cheap stab at fifteen minute fame, My reaction was reaffirmed when I went to My e-mail and found a feedback had been sent to Me with this same note; only THIS one had his e-mail address AND his Literotica member's name AND he signed it with his first name. Obviously, he was hoping for a response from Me. He got it. I went to his site and naturally, there was his name and NO submissions. What a shock, huh? I sent him a private feedback to "ease his concerns" and told him something to the effect of, " I am replying to both your comment and feedback and want to immediately allay your fears by letting you know that My significant other thinks I give FANTASTIC blow jobs. Now, as for My story and your apparent disappointment in My writing abilities, I am open to any suggestions you have for Me regarding improving the quality of My work in any way, shape or form. Thank you for taking the time and effort in helping a fellow Literotica author." After sending this off to him, I went back to My comment page and deleted his vile remark.
To this day, his site remains skeletal with no submissions of any kind and I haven't gotten any tips on how to write best seller stories from the jerk, either. Did I violate his right to freedom of speech? I don't think so. He voiced it . I just exercised My right to place a curfew on his.
The Literotica webmasters are VERY for the right to freedom of speech {as they should be}, but that Constitutional privilege applies for EVERYONE, Pat. Going back to the View Submissions page we each have, you will notice when you click onto the comments that the heading for that page states, and I quote:

As the author of this submission, you are responsible for moderating the public comment board. That means you can delete any comment for any reason. If anyone posts a URL or email address in any comment, please remove that comment immediatly. It is possible that if you delete too many comments, you may discourage people from leaving more comments, but it is your right to moderate the comments on your work however you want. Please see the FAQ area if you have questions.

One of the most prolific and popular and I believe charter members of our site had recently removed all of his work under his original pen name due to a personal conflict with another member. He had so many icons of the three different colors, it looked like the Christmas tree at Rockefeller Center; he was that well known by both Lit staff/members and readers. When the problem got to be too much for him, he was told by the head of Literotica that to remove the other person involved from the site due to this situation would be a violation of that other member's freedom of speech. THAT is how allegiant to the freedom of speech belief our webmasters are. Yet, we still have the statement I've quoted above to balance this right of free speech so ALL have this equal protection.
Professional reviewers and critics would never use the filthy verbage I have seen on the portal {or the one comment I deleted}} to express their opinions when critiquing. If they did, they wouldn't have their jobs for very long. They wield their power of verbal expertise in more accepted forms, but certainly get their opinions {good or bad} across just as effectively and don't consider themselves to have been gagged in their right of freedom of speech.
I am just skeptical in accepting your view as even remotely valid, simply because when I went to your site before starting this post, I couldn't find any submissions on yours, either! I had gone there to see what type comments you had kept on your works; only to find there's none to view under your name. If I'm looking in the wrong place, please accept My apologies and if you will; steer Me in the right direction so I may get an idea as to where you're coming from when you say you believe one should allow any and all comments to remain on their site regardless of its content. It's the old "walk the talk" this woman needs to see in operation. And no, I am most definitely NOT upset - I really want to understand your opinion. Although not Mine {and never will be}, I am appreciative of the fact you took time in coming to this thread and giving your views. I hope you will take a bit more time in showing Me where to locate the comments you kept on your work so I can better comprehend your stand on the subject Thank you, Pat.

Laura

 

[PatCarrington]

WOW!!! I saw all of the new posts this afternoon {06-10}, but had to go to work and was unable to reply to any until now. First, I feel I need to get into Pat Carrington's head {honest, Pat, I won't stay there too long! lol} but I will ask if you would just pretend you were Me for a few minutes and listen to what is a true situation and then tell Me what you would have done different than Me, okay?
This pertains to the one and only comment I have ever deleted from My work. It was quite a while ago {before I began writing for the poetry side of Lit} and had logged onto My View Submissions page and found a comment on one of My stories that read, "I hope you can give better blow jobs than you can write, sweetie" and of course, it was bravely signed as annonymous. In the meantime, {still hadn't deleted it yet} as I was recouperating from what I considered to be a disgusting pervert's attempted cheap stab at fifteen minute fame, My reaction was reaffirmed when I went to My e-mail and found a feedback had been sent to Me with this same note; only THIS one had his e-mail address AND his Literotica member's name AND he signed it with his first name. Obviously, he was hoping for a response from Me. He got it. I went to his site and naturally, there was his name and NO submissions. What a shock, huh? I sent him a private feedback to "ease his concerns" and told him something to the effect of, " I am replying to both your comment and feedback and want to immediately allay your fears by letting you know that My significant other thinks I give FANTASTIC blow jobs. Now, as for My story and your apparent disappointment in My writing abilities, I am open to any suggestions you have for Me regarding improving the quality of My work in any way, shape or form. Thank you for taking the time and effort in helping a fellow Literotica author." After sending this off to him, I went back to My comment page and deleted his vile remark.
To this day, his site remains skeletal with no submissions of any kind and I haven't gotten any tips on how to write best seller stories from the jerk, either. Did I violate his right to freedom of speech? I don't think so. He voiced it . I just exercised My right to place a curfew on his.


laura,

of course that comment was crude, and i find hiding behind anonymity to be despicable. would i have reacted differently than you? yes, i would have.

knowing where i was posting my work (this is a porn site, after all), i would not have been shocked, as you seem to have been, that some unsavory character had found it and decided to leave a bit of himself behind.

i also would not have sent him a private message in return. i would have done nothing, except to erase his private correspondence. i certainly would not have answered him.

the fact that his lit page is skeletal has no bearing on the validity of his comments, nor on his right to comment publically on your work.

my philosophy, as a writer and a person, is that once i open my work to public comment, the public can say any damn thing they want. it’s okay with me. i don’t have to agree with their opinion to agree with their right to state it. and they can state it in any manner they wish.




The Literotica webmasters are VERY for the right to freedom of speech {as they should be}, but that Constitutional privilege applies for EVERYONE, Pat. Going back to the View Submissions page we each have, you will notice when you click onto the comments that the heading for that page states, and I quote:

As the author of this submission, you are responsible for moderating the public comment board. That means you can delete any comment for any reason. If anyone posts a URL or email address in any comment, please remove that comment immediatly. It is possible that if you delete too many comments, you may discourage people from leaving more comments, but it is your right to moderate the comments on your work however you want. Please see the FAQ area if you have questions.


the fact that a money-making operation sets rules up says nothing about the legality or constitutionality of those rules. you wouldn’t have to dig very far into history, in the u.s.a. or elsewhere, to find businesses or organizations that had rules that were either illegal or unconstitutional, or both.

but I am not questioning the rules here. literotica can set any rules they like. that’s fine with me.

i was speaking from a writer’s perspective.

i have seen too many writers here delete comments that hurt their egos or offended their sensibilities, or delete comments simply because they were negative. i don’t think that helps them improve in any way. i do not see any benefit to that person, as a writer, from doing that. nor do i see it as an effective strategy to deter trolls from further comments of that nature. i think the best strategy is to totally ignore them. threads like this probably give them the big bang they are looking for.

when I had work posted here, i let the public comment. whatever they said was fine with me. i tried to judge the validity of all opinions, not just the praise. sometimes, i found a comment like “this poem sucks” to be the most accurate one left on a poem.

i never erased a comment, nor would i. that’s just me. i’m a big boy. i do not get offended by derogatory comments, and i find blind praise just as worthless and distasteful as blind insult.

when i open work for comment, i don’t feel i have a right to choose what anyone should say. that is for them to decide.



One of the most prolific and popular and I believe charter members of our site had recently removed all of his work under his original pen name due to a personal conflict with another member. He had so many icons of the three different colors, it looked like the Christmas tree at Rockefeller Center; he was that well known by both Lit staff/members and readers. When the problem got to be too much for him, he was told by the head of Literotica that to remove the other person involved from the site due to this situation would be a violation of that other member's freedom of speech. THAT is how allegiant to the freedom of speech belief our webmasters are. Yet, we still have the statement I've quoted above to balance this right of free speech so ALL have this equal protection.


i don’t understand what you mean in the above paragraph.

Professional reviewers and critics would never use the filthy verbage I have seen on the portal {or the one comment I deleted}} to express their opinions when critiquing. If they did, they wouldn't have their jobs for very long.


the critiquing here is not done by professionals. the great majority of it is done by regular people with good manners, and some of it is done by perverts, i assume. that is the mix we have here, i would guess. the presence of people with poor table manners does not shock me, and i afford them the same right of speech as i do to everyone.


They wield their power of verbal expertise in more accepted forms, but certainly get their opinions {good or bad} across just as effectively and don't consider themselves to have been gagged in their right of freedom of speech.
I am just skeptical in accepting your view as even remotely valid, simply because when I went to your site before starting this post, I couldn't find any submissions on yours, either!


again, a skeletal submission page has no bearing on the validity of these arguments.


I had gone there to see what type comments you had kept on your works; only to find there's none to view under your name.


as i said, when i posted work here, i never erased a comment. nor would i.

everyone is free to do as they wish. i just think a writer should accept and evaluate all critique, both good and bad.

and to open your work to public comment, and then later to censor that comment because you don’t like it, sits wrong with me.

i also think that leaving negative comments up for others to see, and even vile ones as the one that was left on your work, serves a few purposes.

(1) it informs the anonymous asshole that it doesn’t bother you, which it shouldn’t.
(2) it thickens your skin, which anyone who lays their writing open for viewing will find helpful later on.
(3) it prevents you from developing the bad habit of immediately viewing any negative feedback as useless and incorrect, when in fact many times it is very useful and right on the button.
(4) it matures you, both as a person and as a writer, by testing whether you will respond as a juvenile or an adult. do you take your ball and go home, or do you finish the game?

i’m quite certain there are more reasons i could come up with, a lot more, if i thought a while, but i think i made my point.

and i still cannot think of one benefit you derive from deleting a negative comment. i do not view the pacification of a bruised ego as beneficial. thick skin, on the other hand, comes in very handy.



If I'm looking in the wrong place, please accept My apologies and if you will; steer Me in the right direction so I may get an idea as to where you're coming from when you say you believe one should allow any and all comments to remain on their site regardless of its content. It's the old "walk the talk" this woman needs to see in operation. And no, I am most definitely NOT upset - I really want to understand your opinion. Although not Mine {and never will be}, I am appreciative of the fact you took time in coming to this thread and giving your views. I hope you will take a bit more time in showing Me where to locate the comments you kept on your work so I can better comprehend your stand on the subject Thank you, Pat.

Laura

i hope that clarifies my position a little for you, laura, and you’re welcome.

 

[Shamanskiss]

the point..

It seems somewhat overblown to get so deep into issues of free speech,
when considering the semi-literate piece of drivel that generated this thread.
The author deleted it. That isnt a major event.
It is the author's/ress's right.
The half-wit who left the comment overlooked the most obvious recourse, i.e. stop reading it and move on to something a little more spankable for his little pet monkey..
I try to remember to action both the vote and comment options on all my work.
I like to see feedback , especially from those who also submit work.
But, none of us has any reason, duty, nor obligation to accept or tolerate
comments that are so profoundly half-arsed that the 'half' aspect of that label is in serious doubt. Did the idiot ever spot all those categories with 'non-erotic' tags. They are a bit of a hint that everything on-site doesnt need be about 'fucking', my lord, even all my work isnt about that one persuit, or indeed the persuit of such.
'annoni whatevers' leavings, did not form an opinion, it did not even qualify as a comment. It was an insult, pure and simple.
I doubt that anywhere in anyone's constitution is there a guarantee for the right to be totally offensive merely for the sake of self agrandisment.
Doing so is not exercising freedom of spech. It is having a tantrum.
Applying arguments about freedom of speech, in regard to comments like that detailed, is 'blowing wind'.
If freedom of speech is raised as the banner for annonis cuase, pause , and think about what F.O.S actually is.
Freedom of speech is not 'annoni' having the riight to see his comment evermore displayed on an authors story.
Freedom of speech is his having the right to make that comment.
He made it.. his speech was free.
the author then excercised their freedom of speech, and consigned it to the rubbish bin it never should have left..
That isnt cowardice, fascism, and it certainly isnt dodging critique. It was simply treating the fool with the contempt, and tolerance level they deserved.
If freedom of speech is annoni being alowed to say 'fuck you' to anyone he pleases, it is also that person being able to say 'fuck you' back. Without both elements freedom of speech is lost, and the aggressor simply retains a priivilege of self expression that is in excess of his victim's.
isn't there an essay competition on FOS... maybe I should have submitted this instead of using so much space here. sorry folks.

 

[bogusbrig]

I've had several very personal comments left by someone who knows of me or thinks they know me from someone else and those comments had nothing to do with my writing and everything to do with my personal life. Now, I could have left the comments in place so everytime I read them I was reminded to break a chair over the said person's head should I ever have have the misfortune to meet them or just delete the comments. I deleted. As for comments saying I have no talent and I write 'crapola' (that word says a lot about the intelligence of the person who left the comment.) I left them in place.

Maybe I am a small person but I'm not against punching the lights out of a person who makes a vile personal attack on me. However, I will accept attacks on my work, no matter how strong they are or how unjust I feel they are. I will take those attacks on the chin and not moan about them.

 

[Angeline]

It doesn't matter, folks. People leave comments for all kinds of reasons--sometimes they're honest opinions about your poem, often they're not. Forget about your ego, learn what you can, and most important keep writing. You're here for writing--aren't you? If you give a hoot about someone else's need to stroke their own ego by yanking your chain, so to speak, you're missing the point.

 

[twelveoone]

It doesn't matter, folks. People leave comments for all kinds of reasons--sometimes they're honest opinions about your poem, often they're not. Forget about your ego, learn what you can, and most important keep writing. You're here for writing--aren't you? If you give a hoot about someone else's need to stroke their own ego by yanking your chain, so to speak, you're missing the point.

keep that in mind-sometimes they're honest opinions about your poem.
I sugar coat those that need encouragement
I don't those that have enough.
It is an alternative view, but an honest one, you have every right to disagree, you do so at your own peril. Consider it. If I see it, don't you think someone else will? Someone of more consequence than I?

 

[twelveoone]

I've had several very personal comments left by someone who knows of me or thinks they know me from someone else and those comments had nothing to do with my writing and everything to do with my personal life. Now, I could have left the comments in place so everytime I read them I was reminded to break a chair over the said person's head should I ever have have the misfortune to meet them or just delete the comments. I deleted. As for comments saying I have no talent and I write 'crapola' (that word says a lot about the intelligence of the person who left the comment.) I left them in place.

Maybe I am a small person but I'm not against punching the lights out of a person who makes a vile personal attack on me. However, I will accept attacks on my work, no matter how strong they are or how unjust I feel they are. I will take those attacks on the chin and not moan about them.

small minds think alike...
I'm not adverse to taking out your friends, and saving you for last to highen the suspense. It is all about fear.
You and I, perhaps a few others can make that statement.

A few things to consider here, like it or not, a lot of people play follow the leader. A negative comment may lead others to either not to leave a positive one, or to agree with it. I have mixed feeling about deleting comments, I don't do it, despise those that do when it is about the poem, support those that delete when it is not about the poem, but I understand why it is done.
Pat, Fly and Angeline do not leave many comments over there. Pat and Fly do not submit over there, probably with good reason, a large part of the comments suck. It is a bit of a game, leaving something that may be helpfull, without getting your ego involved and without doing damage to someone else's. I may not succede, but I try to operate along those lines.
It is all about fear. I have more important things to fear than what is said, what anyone thinks about me. I have said things in real life, that have had the potential to have cost me my life, my job. If it needed to be said, I said it. I guess I'm still alive and working. Heh, heh, this has the potential to cost me nothing.
I have deleted three things because of comments, the comments where generally good, in one case, it enabled me to see it in a different way, a reading that is not what I intended. And the others were just sloppy, even by my standards, I pulled them to rework them.
You have something over there, that has the potential for real value, a variety of styles, skill levels, tastes; it is being killed by fear.
Anonymous comments, votes, are both a symptom and cause of some of that fear.

 

[Maria2394]

Debate is a good thing. No doubt about it. Rude, crude hateful comments started this debate. Apathy is not good, not caring, go smoke some dope and fughetta about it, isnt good. I have learned from this discussion and feel deifitely more confident that in the future I will be able to make more helpful comments and not be so afraid of hurting someone, especially those who have posted in favor of Constructive Crit, on this thread.

Laura, while I cannot speak for anyone else here, I will say that I have removed work that was sent elsewhere, some was placed, others were not, I know that others have as well, ( just look at the where are you published thread) and absence of work here on LIt doesnt mean that author doesnt KICK ass on other sites. And funny thing, I have never seen anyone mention Lit in their public bios, myself included!!

 

[Jennifer C]

Debate is a good thing, everybody has their own opinions and are entitled to them, the world would be a pretty boring place if we all thought alike! This thread has raised some important points and lots of us have discussed our opinions on cruel anonymous comments and whether or not it is right to delete them and I have enjoyed putting my arguements across. The only sad thing is that all the debate in the world isn't going to stop the nasty commenters, they will still leave their rubbish and trash peoples work for the sake of it and we can't do anything about that. What we can do though is respect others rights to delete said comments if they wish and concentrate on their writing and sharing it with us on Lit.

 

[Wanton Vixxxen]

Good morning all!!!

At least it is here in Pa. of the USA. <smile> I want to thank you, Pat for giving Me your response so quickly and so thoroughly. I am happy to see such comraderie about a very controversial subject handled in a calm manner as we two seem to be the completely opposite ends on it's take with all the rest that have posted here somewhere in between. Please forgive My naiveness about your prior Literotica site and your handling of your comments, but the first question that pops up in this brunette moment of Mine is...why??? Why did you remove your work from Lit? You can tell Me its none of My business if you wish {again, I would not take offense to that as it touches upon a personal matter}, but your opinion seems to lose potency because you have nothing tangible left for us to see in black and white how really strong your belief is. And if, in fact, every single comment was indeed left on your work - both good and bad - and really, I have no reason to doubt your statement to that as I'm sure there's enough authors on this thread alone that know for certain - I am now wondering what caused you to disappear as an author from this site and remove the submissions you had here. I think if I am ever published {My novel and future major works are not in the erotic genre}, I would hope to leave My start in public writing right here at Lit.
I see some new authors to this thread added their in depth replies and for that I am thrilled! It shows we all have walked the fine line of deciding what was meant as critique and what was personal slander. Oh, before I forget...I just wanted to say that although Pat had mentioned he feels the commentator that leaves what most would consider a personal vulgar remark still has the right to say it and if we delete it, that it's considered censorship insofar as we have deprived readers their right to see the comment. My thoughts are if I grin and bear it, I have not only deprived Myself of the right to freedom of choice on My own work, but I have also allowed an anonymous degenerate to take center stage and shadow hours of My work that was written as the now new main focus to read. When I feel I am a victim of a personal assault, I am not going to curl up in a ball and chant "well, its his/her right to freedom of speech to attack you, Laura" and let it stay on My site like a badge of honor. I may not be as thick skinned as I'd like or should be, but I'm no hypocrit either. I think we're all responsible and mature enough authors here on this site to determine when it is a constructive comment passionately spewed and one that was struck from the keyboard of the mentally disturbed.
I have just looked at the other new replies to this thread as I wrote this and I feel we have all heard and shared some priceless thoughts. I hope there is still more commenting to be had on the author's works themselves now to show we have interest in other than our own works and are willing to share whatever talents we have. We can only grow when we give of ourselves.
I gotta book {no pun intended lol } and hopefully I'll see someone here when I get in tonight from work. I love you all for what you're doing here. You are helping to help all that enter and dwell in our neighborhood. I LOVE our town of Lit!!!

 

[Jennifer C]

At least it is here in Pa. of the USA. <smile> I want to thank you, Pat for giving Me your response so quickly and so thoroughly. I am happy to see such comraderie about a very controversial subject handled in a calm manner as we two seem to be the completely opposite ends on it's take with all the rest that have posted here somewhere in between. Please forgive My naiveness about your prior Literotica site and your handling of your comments, but the first question that pops up in this brunette moment of Mine is...why??? Why did you remove your work from Lit? You can tell Me its none of My business if you wish {again, I would not take offense to that as it touches upon a personal matter}, but your opinion seems to lose potency because you have nothing tangible left for us to see in black and white how really strong your belief is. And if, in fact, every single comment was indeed left on your work - both good and bad - and really, I have no reason to doubt your statement to that as I'm sure there's enough authors on this thread alone that know for certain - I am now wondering what caused you to disappear as an author from this site and remove the submissions you had here. I think if I am ever published {My novel and future major works are not in the erotic genre}, I would hope to leave My start in public writing right here at Lit.
I see some new authors to this thread added their in depth replies and for that I am thrilled! It shows we all have walked the fine line of deciding what was meant as critique and what was personal slander. Oh, before I forget...I just wanted to say that although Pat had mentioned he feels the commentator that leaves what most would consider a personal vulgar remark still has the right to say it and if we delete it, that it's considered censorship insofar as we have deprived readers their right to see the comment. My thoughts are if I grin and bear it, I have not only deprived Myself of the right to freedom of choice on My own work, but I have also allowed an anonymous degenerate to take center stage and shadow hours of My work that was written as the now new main focus to read. When I feel I am a victim of a personal assault, I am not going to curl up in a ball and chant "well, its his/her right to freedom of speech to attack you, Laura" and let it stay on My site like a badge of honor. I may not be as thick skinned as I'd like or should be, but I'm no hypocrit either. I think we're all responsible and mature enough authors here on this site to determine when it is a constructive comment passionately spewed and one that was struck from the keyboard of the mentally disturbed.
I have just looked at the other new replies to this thread as I wrote this and I feel we have all heard and shared some priceless thoughts. I hope there is still more commenting to be had on the author's works themselves now to show we have interest in other than our own works and are willing to share whatever talents we have. We can only grow when we give of ourselves.
I gotta book {no pun intended lol } and hopefully I'll see someone here when I get in tonight from work. I love you all for what you're doing here. You are helping to help all that enter and dwell in our neighborhood. I LOVE our town of Lit!!!

Well put Laura! I Love our Town too and all the wonderful friends I have made here

 

[Angeline]

small minds think alike...
I'm not adverse to taking out your friends, and saving you for last to highen the suspense. It is all about fear.
You and I, perhaps a few others can make that statement.

A few things to consider here, like it or not, a lot of people play follow the leader. A negative comment may lead others to either not to leave a positive one, or to agree with it. I have mixed feeling about deleting comments, I don't do it, despise those that do when it is about the poem, support those that delete when it is not about the poem, but I understand why it is done.
Pat, Fly and Angeline do not leave many comments over there. Pat and Fly do not submit over there, probably with good reason, a large part of the comments suck. It is a bit of a game, leaving something that may be helpfull, without getting your ego involved and without doing damage to someone else's. I may not succede, but I try to operate along those lines.
It is all about fear. I have more important things to fear than what is said, what anyone thinks about me. I have said things in real life, that have had the potential to have cost me my life, my job. If it needed to be said, I said it. I guess I'm still alive and working. Heh, heh, this has the potential to cost me nothing.
I have deleted three things because of comments, the comments where generally good, in one case, it enabled me to see it in a different way, a reading that is not what I intended. And the others were just sloppy, even by my standards, I pulled them to rework them.
You have something over there, that has the potential for real value, a variety of styles, skill levels, tastes; it is being killed by fear.
Anonymous comments, votes, are both a symptom and cause of some of that fear.

I used to comment on most poems every day. I did that for about a year, plus I did weekly reviews for about a year and a half. Also, I've done a lot of reviews via pm because the people that ask for them are more comfortable with that, which is fine with me.

I got to the point where I didn't have time to write my own stuff because of all the reviewing I was doing. Then I started working full time again. I have a certain amount of guilt for not doing more now, but I have to give myself time to write and study--anything less would be counterproductive to my whole raison d'etre on this forum, yknow?

 

[Maria2394]

Debate is a good thing, everybody has their own opinions and are entitled to them, the world would be a pretty boring place if we all thought alike! This thread has raised some important points and lots of us have discussed our opinions on cruel anonymous comments and whether or not it is right to delete them and I have enjoyed putting my arguements across. The only sad thing is that all the debate in the world isn't going to stop the nasty commenters, they will still leave their rubbish and trash peoples work for the sake of it and we can't do anything about that. What we can do though is respect others rights to delete said comments if they wish and concentrate on their writing and sharing it with us on Lit.

I didn't mean "debate" as in argue. I meant it as, put a point forth and ponder it, discuss, express opinions,..youre right, debate changes nothing, it just divides up the teams ....and this small misinterpretation is why public comments, valid or otherwise will always be a point ofcontention. With offense taken by some, and none by others. blah, this is starting to taste funny...bye yall

 

[annaswirls]

If someone tapes a sign to my back that says

Kick my big fat ass


I will disregard their right of free speech and remove said sign.

There are examples of exceptions to everything.


I think removing negative comments about the Poem itself is lame and vain.

I think that removing negative personal comments is human.

If someone were reviewing a play, and made a false about the playwright's sexuality, I am certain many would sue for slander... libel? Happens all the time, no?

I hate to bring up the sexism card, but I do think a lot of this does have to do with the sex of the person who receives them.


I am sure these things happen, but rarely do I see a comment like

"I hope you eat pussy better than you write poetry"

or how about

I give this poem a 2 just like your 2 inch penis whose genital warts are bigger than your balls


because it is non-threatening. The vast majority of women have experienced some form of abuse. When such comments appear, the first reaction may be reflexive, instinctual:
Just make it go away.
I know it has been for me when I have gotten comments like that... it is not logical, I know I am not in danger, but that initial response is fear. I have been able to laugh them off, but think I would delete something more graphic etc.


okay that is my two cents, I agree Ange, it does not really matter (how much of of a forum would this be if we only discussed things that did ) but it is an interesting thought exercize nonetheless.

 

[Guest]

If someone tapes a sign to my back that says

Kick my big fat ass


I will disregard their right of free speech and remove said sign.

There are examples of exceptions to everything.


I think removing negative comments about the Poem itself is lame and vain.

I think that removing negative personal comments is human.

If someone were reviewing a play, and made a false about the playwright's sexuality, I am certain many would sue for slander... libel? Happens all the time, no?

I hate to bring up the sexism card, but I do think a lot of this does have to do with the sex of the person who receives them.


I am sure these things happen, but rarely do I see a comment like

"I hope you eat pussy better than you write poetry"

or how about

I give this poem a 2 just like your 2 inch penis whose genital warts are bigger than your balls


because it is non-threatening. The vast majority of women have experienced some form of abuse. When such comments appear, the first reaction may be reflexive, instinctual:
Just make it go away.
I know it has been for me when I have gotten comments like that... it is not logical, I know I am not in danger, but that initial response is fear. I have been able to laugh them off, but think I would delete something more graphic etc.


okay that is my two cents, I agree Ange, it does not really matter (how much of of a forum would this be if we only discussed things that did ) but it is an interesting thought exercize nonetheless.

I lurve your socks off.

 

[annaswirls]

I lurve your socks off.

ooooh I was wondering where they went!!


god I am so turned on right now

 

[twelveoone]

If someone tapes a sign to my back that says

Kick my big fat ass


I will disregard their right of free speech and remove said sign.

There are examples of exceptions to everything.


I think removing negative comments about the Poem itself is lame and vain.

I think that removing negative personal comments is human.

If someone were reviewing a play, and made a false about the playwright's sexuality, I am certain many would sue for slander... libel? Happens all the time, no?

I hate to bring up the sexism card, but I do think a lot of this does have to do with the sex of the person who receives them.


I am sure these things happen, but rarely do I see a comment like

"I hope you eat pussy better than you write poetry"

or how about

I give this poem a 2 just like your 2 inch penis whose genital warts are bigger than your balls


because it is non-threatening. The vast majority of women have experienced some form of abuse. When such comments appear, the first reaction may be reflexive, instinctual:
Just make it go away.
I know it has been for me when I have gotten comments like that... it is not logical, I know I am not in danger, but that initial response is fear. I have been able to laugh them off, but think I would delete something more graphic etc.


okay that is my two cents, I agree Ange, it does not really matter (how much of of a forum would this be if we only discussed things that did ) but it is an interesting thought exercize nonetheless.

as per usual, well put
"I hate to bring up the sexism card, but I do think a lot of this does have to do with the sex of the person who receives them.

because it is non-threatening. The vast majority of women have experienced some form of abuse. When such comments appear, the first reaction may be reflexive, instinctual:"

The reaction, and the type of abuse, probably has a lot to do with the sex of the person. Most people have been abused, male or female. I sometimes think societies are based on institutionalized abuse, depends on the race, sex or class of people what type of society it is. Abuse is a tool for control, take the tool away; ever read Dick Gregory's "Nigger"?, he took the tool away.
I understand the point here, and I have great deal of sympathy for it.
Two things can be done; taking away the ability to leave "anonymous" comments would cut down on a considerable amount of this crap.
Or "we" go out of our way to show support for the person receiving such abuse.
In my wanderings around, I haven't any of what you are describing, perhaps because it was deleted.
I've seen words to the effect of "you suck", "who told you, you can write" or people making issues. This is still offensive, doesn't belong. Ignoring only does so much.
Even leaving zeros is a form of abuse, why would you do it, what constructive reason could you possibly give, even if said poem was so badly written that it deserved it.
Take the tool away.

 

[twelveoone]

Will somebody offer this woman some real criticism
She deserves more
than the two real comments that where left

BRAVO
Maria2394
dcpoet

arriba- anonamouse

 

[annaswirls]

Will somebody offer this woman some real criticism
She deserves more
than the two real comments that where left

BRAVO
Maria2394
dcpoet

arriba- anonamouse

your box be full, mayte!
I am off to church, catch you later

 

[Angeline]

If someone tapes a sign to my back that says

Kick my big fat ass


I will disregard their right of free speech and remove said sign.

There are examples of exceptions to everything.


I think removing negative comments about the Poem itself is lame and vain.

I think that removing negative personal comments is human.

If someone were reviewing a play, and made a false about the playwright's sexuality, I am certain many would sue for slander... libel? Happens all the time, no?

I hate to bring up the sexism card, but I do think a lot of this does have to do with the sex of the person who receives them.


I am sure these things happen, but rarely do I see a comment like

"I hope you eat pussy better than you write poetry"

or how about

I give this poem a 2 just like your 2 inch penis whose genital warts are bigger than your balls


because it is non-threatening. The vast majority of women have experienced some form of abuse. When such comments appear, the first reaction may be reflexive, instinctual:
Just make it go away.
I know it has been for me when I have gotten comments like that... it is not logical, I know I am not in danger, but that initial response is fear. I have been able to laugh them off, but think I would delete something more graphic etc.


okay that is my two cents, I agree Ange, it does not really matter (how much of of a forum would this be if we only discussed things that did ) but it is an interesting thought exercize nonetheless.

I've never deleted a public comment. I figure once a poem is out there, it's fair game for however people want to vote/comment or not (which I suppose is sort of a comment, too).

And I agree with what you're saying, Anna--besides which people are of course entitled to whatever opinions they want to express here as long as they don't yknow violate copyright or post personal info about others here or such--just the basic forum rules. However, I see thread after thread with all this angst about scores and comments. I think it is very very good to say "read so-and-so's poem" because especially the noobs don't get exposure otherwise and there are wonderful writers submitting here all the time who should be read, should hear from others, for good or ill. There's schlock and there's gems--like anywhere.

I just think people could put all that passion into poems...or comments about the ones they read. Maybe coming from someone who doesn't comment much anymore that sounds hypocritical, but I still think that poems and discussion about how to make them better is more productive than wailing over getting one-bombed or being told your poem bites. You understand that--I wish more people did, too, but that's just my opinion.

 

[Wanton Vixxxen]

Just a little heads up...

I have not been on the boards this week at all to comment, but have read and have voted on many each night when I got home from work. Between My suspicions that the trolls that have dogged My poems for the last few months are following what I comment on and then attacking those poets' works, and with having been inundated with personal obligations, I have not had the time I usually allot for comments at all. But I am there, believe Me! When My schedule returns to its normal insane pace, I will resume My regular commenting. I also am working on a project of proposal to Lit to address this out of control troll situation. I have some backers and will welcome any and all others. I am a very stubborn woman and adamant in My beliefs for fairness and justice as I know many of you are right here on this thread. Please consider opening up a discussion about this chronic and useless problem. I am all ears on your thoughts!!!
I am off and running and will hopefully be back here tonight when I return. Please... all be well and have a great day!!!

 

[Miss Oatlash]

Who's Trolling????

My poem Invasion got trolled from a perfect "5" to "4.62" with 2 extra votes...What the f*ck is that all about? It has been a perfect "5" since I posted it!!!

AAARRRRGGGGHHHHH!!!!!

 

[twelveoone]

I've never deleted a public comment. I figure once a poem is out there, it's fair game for however people want to vote/comment or not (which I suppose is sort of a comment, too).

And I agree with what you're saying, Anna--besides which people are of course entitled to whatever opinions they want to express here as long as they don't yknow violate copyright or post personal info about others here or such--just the basic forum rules. However, I see thread after thread with all this angst about scores and comments. I think it is very very good to say "read so-and-so's poem" because especially the noobs don't get exposure otherwise and there are wonderful writers submitting here all the time who should be read, should hear from others, for good or ill. There's schlock and there's gems--like anywhere.

I just think people could put all that passion into poems...or comments about the ones they read. Maybe coming from someone who doesn't comment much anymore that sounds hypocritical, but I still think that poems and discussion about how to make them better is more productive than wailing over getting one-bombed or being told your poem bites. You understand that--I wish more people did, too, but that's just my opinion.

yeh, it does sound a little hypocritical.
Angeline got how many comments, how many did Angeline leave?

Comments can and should be a useful tool for honest (well nearly) feedback, an education process for all. It should be a reasonable part of that discussion about how to make poetry better. Damn it, YDD and Tara Blackwood, jd4george left quality comments. And I learned more from their comments, than anything over here, with the exception of Interact.
I don't care if someone says something of mine bites, give me the reasons, give me a name. Next time it will either bite less or bite more, depending on the mood I'm in.
GET RID of the anonymous votes and comments. This is not about wailing about low scores here, this is more about anonymous assholes corrupting what could be a very valuble feedback loop.
And some of them, just way out of line.

arriba-anonamouse

BTW what are noobs?

 

[BooMerengue]

noobs= newbies...lol