The never-ending "labels" debate

[intothewoods]

Mister Man posts on Fetlife?

That's the first thing I've read about the place that makes me want to join.

Ha ha. What am I, chopped liver? He has a profile, but I just double-checked with him and he's never actually posted.

 

[Keroin]

Ha ha. What am I, chopped liver? He has a profile, but I just double-checked with him and he's never actually posted.

Ha, I have a "profile" (devoid of just about any kind of information), on there too but haven't ever posted either. I basically just joined so that I could have a look around and see what everyone was talking about.

Nah, not for me.

And yet I still get private messages now and then from people propositioning me for various "stuff". Yuck.

 

[intothewoods]

Ha, I have a "profile" (devoid of just about any kind of information), on there too but haven't ever posted either. I basically just joined so that I could have a look around and see what everyone was talking about.

Nah, not for me.

And yet I still get private messages now and then from people propositioning me for various "stuff". Yuck.

Every once in a while I'll post something somewhere, but this place is just more familiar.

 

[Keroin]

Every once in a while I'll post something somewhere, but this place is just more familiar.

I found FL difficult to navigate and I stumbled across far too many oh-so-so-serious threads and posts right off the bat that I was exit-stage-left and...poof...gone.

 

[JMohegan]

Ha ha. What am I, chopped liver? He has a profile, but I just double-checked with him and he's never actually posted.

I'm already talking to you here! Mister Man's the one who's elusive.

 

[CutieMouse]

And yet I still get private messages now and then from people propositioning me for various "stuff". Yuck.

I don't even get that. LOL

 

[Netzach]

So I can't FIND any of you MF's on fetlife, finally got made to join by a friendly client type who insisted I MUST.

 

[CutieMouse]

So I can't FIND any of you MF's on fetlife, finally got made to join by a friendly client type who insisted I MUST.

Same nick as here, love.

 

[ultramarineblue]

I don't even get that. LOL

You're lucky. I rarely get them but when I do they sure are winners.

 

[BiBunny]

Same nick as here, love.

Me, too.

 

[Netzach]

I hope we are allowed to be brutally honest here. I rarely venture to say my mind regarding this topic out in the open. Disclaimer: I am a really nice guy, and yes I have a great sense of humour! But....I am going to take this topic seriously. So here goes.

- I have well over 15 years experience in kink. In that time, I have discovered a lot of frankly repugnant, and often time annoying traits and habits in the so-called BDSM community. Here we go...

1) Labels - This is one of the most irritating aspects. From my perspective, the obsession with labels seems to be a little bit like how teen-age gamers view the world: Its like we are in a world of "levels", and "hit-points", and "character classes", except instead of some kind of MMORPG, its our sex-life we are talking about, and I find it to be contrived and trite.

Like So: "Hey GUYZ, I am Redrose-Bud-VampireChik32!!! I am owned and protected by BigSLAYER87, and currently under tutorial from level 74 BigBOssMaster, who is in the harem of Zagreb90. I am ONLY interested in switch men on Sundays, who have hard-core Dorito Cool-Ranch Fetish".

Are you fu*&ing kidding me? Sometimes profiles look JUST like that. (well almost....you get the point).

As a man that CANNOT be easily defined, I find that the more conformity to categorization there is: the tougher it is for an individual like myself to communicate his interests and reach some kind of understanding. Labels are fine, but the excessive use of them has really cheapened the experience.

Have I had a woman call me Master? SURE! But have I had the creativity to get her to call me a lot of other kinky crazy names? YES! Dear lord.

2) "Munches" (also related to labels) - A meet-up of kinks just automatically seems to be a so-called "Munch". Besides the fact that I abbhor the "cute" (can you tell?), this is a non-descriptive term, and seems to really bring out the boring and non-sexual. I have attended dozens of these "munches", and have always arrived mature, well-dressed, friendly, and often with a woman or WOMEN in tow. 9 times out of 10 (not always, but often), the "Munches" are populated by label-obsessed crazies.

I am the kinky one here! And I am thinking these people are crazy. Crazy boring, that is. Not like I would ever say it out loud...I am quite polite and well-mannered when meeting any stranger, who automatically deserves kindness and respect.

- Sometimes the discussion seems to degenerate into INCREDIBLY detailed rules, exchanges about what to do and what not to do, that again, it reminds me of teen-age roleplaying. This is a massive turn-off. Yes, I completely understand the need for rules, and frankly, I have been following my own set of common-sense safety rules since before I was "legal", thanks very much. I am often left wondering why these groups are so DESEXUALIZED. Thats right......desexualized. Sometimes, its like BDSM-minded individuals feel some nascent guilt bubbling up, and use the rule-book as a way to make themselves feel psychologically legitimized, and its irritating.

Final Note: I have met some VERY kinky women in my time (lots). One thing I have discovered.....the more kinky and intelligent she is: the less she seems to want to go to a "MUNCH", call me "Master", and generally engage in pop-culture BDSM activities. Her intelligence and demand for something truly unique allows me to show who I REALLY am....not some pre-packaged HBO version of kink.

Hail to that.

I don't know what you got in the way of munches. For me, the purpose of a munch is to make contact with other people who might share your interest in such a manner as play is not the emphasis at the time you meet, and being outed is not likely.

If anything I've found munches to be overly sexualized, as though we can't go fifteen minutes without our heaviest leather dog collars on and showing tits, and I've found it uncomfortable professionally and personally as a person trying to keep some discretion in my life and yet eventually get it on in the way I like. The purpose of a munch, in my ideal mental concept of such is to meet people and retain the mystery of who and what they might like to do in bed and in powerplay relationships until actually getting to know them. So that I'm less likely to be outed as a fucking freak to the world, other than by my own choosing. Ironic that I'm as out as I am, but more turned off by the overt displays I've seen at munches than a lot of people who are supposedly deeply private. If I were really deeply private it would turn me off the scene forever.

I'm also not really lacking in intellect or imagination and a lot of my sexual kinks have had very stereotypical BDSM aesthetics and ritual elements ever since I was getting sexual at all, so I'm unsure you can dismiss all the cultural markers as a lack of imagination.

 

[Keroin]

So I can't FIND any of you MF's on fetlife, finally got made to join by a friendly client type who insisted I MUST.

I'm Hemingway over there.

 

[Homburg]

I think, given the nature of such relationships, he's every bit as much yours as you are his.

It's not about ownership, but about belonging. Belonging right there with that person, be they dom or sub.

Lizzie, you've been making an awful lot of sense lately. Rock on.

--

Same nick as here, love.

A pretty fair number of folks here have the same nic there.

--

I don't know what you got in the way of munches. For me, the purpose of a munch is to make contact with other people who might share your interest in such a manner as play is not the emphasis at the time you meet, and being outed is not likely.

The munch group I go to occasionally is a really mellow thing. More a bunch of old friends getting together that occasionally talk sex. The flip side of that is another munch group in the region that is pretty well known to be high protocol (the coloured name tags crowd). It is a YMMV thing.

 

[graceanne]

Same nick as here, love.

Me, too.

 

[niv78]

Me, too.

Me three: niv78

 

[Lizzie_Borden]

Lizzie, you've been making an awful lot of sense lately. Rock on.

I have my moments.



That view tends to stem from my rather personal take on D/s. It's *ours* I belong to him. He's mine.

But as for labels and what not... whatever floats your boat people. Just don't expect everyone else to get on board and start paddling. Others don't have to subscribe to you being Master of your domain. However, I do also think that it's only polite to address someone the way they've requested, even if you don't agree with their self proclaimed title. Even if you think they're being a tool. Cos you just might discover that they're not one.

'Mr' is the closest I come to any sort of title. I throw in the occasional Sir when he gives me a certain look that makes it come tumbling out. I'm not big on labels and names and things myself. We're just 2 people. We know who's wearing the pants. We don't feel the need to formalise it on an ongoing basis.

But I understand how that works for people.

 

[Etoile]

no can find netzach

 

[Black_Bunny]

I didn’t have to ask them for advice, because I already knew everything they could tell me wouldn’t fit my personal, ‘non-canon’ way.
Instead I opened my eyes for the people I already knew and liked outside of any avowed bdsm-context. And I found out that there are surprisingly many of them who actually are into this kind of shit in one way or another.
What I try to say with this is that you maybe should listen to your intuition.
You don’t feel really comfortable with the way the people of your local scene view the topic?
Maybe they view it the wrong way, for you.
But maybe there are people you are already comfortable with, which are into some of your kinks without telling you now?
Give it a look…
*snip*
You, dear Black Bunny, appear to be an intelligent, young lady.
I think you don’t need experienced bdsm-friends more than intelligent friends (who wouldn’t freak out about bdsm stuff). And I suspect that intelligent friends on your wavelength might turn out having some secret (or not so secret) kinks of their own.
Fuck for the formal ones who pretend to share your interests…

Thank you for your thoughts Kojote I'm not wanting to make friends so that I can ask other people's advice, it's just that I like having friends with common interests to me... just as I might join a photography group, or make friends with other people who are interested in the same type of music to me etc. I have been slowly telling more and more vanilla friends about my kink, and none of them share it... I am still the only one

I agree that perhaps the people in my local scene view things differently to how I want to view them... it's a sad understanding to come to.

If you and your boyfriend go to a munch, and he introduces himself to others as Master So-and-So, just as he did when joining a social group in the virtual world, then the munch participants are very likely to draw conclusions about him based on that self-applied honorific. This may or may not be generally perceived as a negative, depending on the norms of the group you visit.

I agree that they would draw conclusions... thus why he would never introduce himself as 'Master' Real life is different to the cyber world, it's not like I'm going to introduce myself as Black Bunny. We'd just use our real names.

Are they really worth being friends with if they pick on you for your choice of honorific, though, BeeBee?

Is she really worth being friends with?

I don't know if they're worth being friends with, satindesire... it's just that this one guy who brought it up is a Dominant the same age as Grim, and in the local scene that seems to be quite rare, most of the Doms are a generation or two older, and most males his age are submissives. So I was really keen, and they were both keen, on becoming friends... and I'm not saying they won't, he just pissed me off a bit with what he said.

Primalex, without sounding like I'm offended, I have to say that I'm a pretty darn nice person, and I go to a lot more effort than some to be friendly and get to know a person. So yes, I am worth being friends with.

There seem to be two conversations going on here. One about people using honorifics to address their partners, and the other about people who use honorifics in introducing themselves.

Originally I wasn't talking about either... I was talking about referring to my partner. Not him introducing himself, not what others might call him, and not me addressing him. But of course I appreciate the benefits of letting the thread wander I just wanted to state that

 

[chy_girl]

As for the original question:
Anyone who walks around lecturing you on personal components to your relationship is welcome to fuck themselves off a very short bridge, IMO. Your relationship is between you and your PYL and, in my experience, it's far better to worry about pleasing your PYL than it is every dickDom or wonder-sub that trips past.

*snip*
I remember once someone getting all riled up because of the term my dominant. The poster's point was since a submissive could not own a dominant we can't use the word my or refer to our dominants as mine. Screw that. It's up to my dominant to correct me not someone else.

Personally, mine is a symbiotic relationship and if my People are going to refer to me as *their* girl then everyone else can just deal with me calling them *my* people. They may beat on other subbies, but I'm the one wearing their collar, serving them, and calling them Mistress and Sir. Besides, they've never complained when I've called them mine and their opinion is the only one that matters on the topic.

heh... so being disabled means you have to be a sub? It's odd, I would have thought that the scene would be a bit more diverse.

*snortcough*
Right. And one has to be able to hit really, really hard to earn their sadist card.
(/sarcasm)

Would that be "Sir Master Lord Schnooky Winkums"?

'Cause I go by that, and it would freak me out if that's a name you use a lot.

And I want to say that I am completely cool with anyone calling their human-of-interest whatever the Holy Ghost puts into your brain. Todd. Fido. Now-With-Whole-Grains. Seriously. But a) people may not always remember it, and b) people may think you mean something different by "Exalted Bearer of the Cock" than you actually mean, because when they use "Exalted Bearer of the Cock" it usually means, say, Viking accountants who love fisting. Or whatever.

DUDE! Seriously. Warn the unsuspecting, wouldn't you?

Yeah... the cob fiber would get so stuck in their teeth!

*gags*
You too. Jeez Stella, you're just as bad as DGE on the unsuspecting victim bit.

I found FL difficult to navigate and I stumbled across far too many oh-so-so-serious threads and posts right off the bat that I was exit-stage-left and...poof...gone.

See, if we got a enough of the normal people from here to start a group over there then there'd be good, not always oh-so-so-serious threads. And we could make a rule that there's no yelling at the pyls for not capitalizing something that is "supposed" to be. We might even be able to confuse some of the locals. *wiggles eyebrows*

Me, too.

Me four.

 

[JMohegan]

Originally I wasn't talking about either... I was talking about referring to my partner. Not him introducing himself, not what others might call him, and not me addressing him. But of course I appreciate the benefits of letting the thread wander I just wanted to state that

In post 9, quoted below, you seem to be confusing the issues. Hence my comments on the thread.

Of course you appreciate the "wandering." You started it.

My Master recently joined Fetlife and the username he wanted beginning with 'Mr' was taken, so he added 'Master' to the beginning of it. Now a person, I don't want to pick, and he's a new friend, and I'm sure he's a lovely person, its just that what he says is probably the way many others feel too... but he said that 'Master' is a title that only a few have 'earned' and my Dominant may want to re-think his username... his profile clearly states that he is Dominant of Black Bunny, not Master, just as mine states I am submissive not slave... it's a freakin username... So, what now I can't refer to the person I love with a title that shows my respect for him, because some think he hasn't "earnt" that title?!

 

[00Syd]

So I can't FIND any of you MF's on fetlife, finally got made to join by a friendly client type who insisted I MUST.

I'm 00Syd on Fl, too! Friend meeeeee (So that I can stalk you further).

 

[where]

.....

 

[JMohegan]

But as for labels and what not... whatever floats your boat people. Just don't expect everyone else to get on board and start paddling. Others don't have to subscribe to you being Master of your domain. However, I do also think that it's only polite to address someone the way they've requested, even if you don't agree with their self proclaimed title. Even if you think they're being a tool. Cos you just might discover that they're not one.

I see this the other way around. What's impolite is expecting people, whose respect you have not earned, to address you with an honorific. Honorifics are different than regular names; the whole point of an honorific is to demonstrate deference.

So if someone introduces themselves to me as Sir Joe, I'll just be calling him Joe. If he's got some reason for the "Sir" on his name, other than an expectation of deference, then he won't mind plain Joe. I'll figure out that he's not a tool, if he's not, and everything will be fine.

The exception to this would be kink clubs or other settings in which specific protocols are the rule and expected norm. As ITW said, honorifics in those settings are part of the point, a form of group role play. Nothing wrong with it, obviously, and if I don't like the rules, then I won't join.

 

[FurryFury]

no can find netzach

Me either.

I'm Furryfury over there too.

Oh and there is a Literotica group over there already but no one does anything with it.

 

[chy_girl]

I really wouldn't know. I live in a very isolated place, so there is no 'scene'. I don't really share my interests with anyone except my beloved and people on here. I have an academic interest in disability though, so I was curious.

Both of my Mistress and Sir are sadists. Very good sadists. The local community tends to see my Mistress as the heavier sadist of the two because she hits freaking hard. Funny thing is I'd pick Sir as the heavier sadist because he knows how to fuck with the brain in just the right way. Hell, depending on his set up, he can make me holler with a hit light enough to normally earn him a dirty look from me.

As for the disability end of things, there's no reason why that should interfere unless someone's looking for the cut and past version of BDSM play. People modify stuff all the time to accommodate a pyl's physical and/or mental state so why couldn't there be an accommodation for a PYL? On top of which, it's just ignorant to think that someone has to be a pyl if they have a physical disability. It's who the person is in their head that decides upper case vs lower case. That's not changed by needing a mobility devise any more than sexual orientation is.