The Predator
- Thread starter artful
- Start date
P. B. Walker
Literotica Guru
- Joined
- Nov 21, 2001
- Posts
- 25,127
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The Predator
ohhh.. good dig.
but seriously.. that's a tad below you don't you think?
Although... you've probably lumped me into the "hate crowd" so you'll prolly ignore this anyway.
PBW
SexyChele said:
ohhh.. good dig.
but seriously.. that's a tad below you don't you think?
Although... you've probably lumped me into the "hate crowd" so you'll prolly ignore this anyway.
PBW
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The Predator
PBW, I hate no one, and if anyone hates me it's their problem. It's a wasted emotion, in my opinion. And lately too many people have been "lumped" in too many "crowds". No, I won't ignore you.
But I guess my brand of sarcastic humor was lost on most folks. My bad.
P. B. Walker said:
ohhh.. good dig.
but seriously.. that's a tad below you don't you think?
Although... you've probably lumped me into the "hate crowd" so you'll prolly ignore this anyway.
PBW
PBW, I hate no one, and if anyone hates me it's their problem. It's a wasted emotion, in my opinion. And lately too many people have been "lumped" in too many "crowds". No, I won't ignore you.
But I guess my brand of sarcastic humor was lost on most folks. My bad.
P. B. Walker
Literotica Guru
- Joined
- Nov 21, 2001
- Posts
- 25,127
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The Predator
Well I'm a pretty humorous guy. I love to laugh and I try to joke alot. I think I usually get most types of humor. I'm sorry I didn't get your humor. Maybe I don't get as much humor as I thought. I didn't get MsC's "Crushed Nut" humor either. I'm not sure what to do about it either...
PBW
SexyChele said:
Well I'm a pretty humorous guy. I love to laugh and I try to joke alot. I think I usually get most types of humor. I'm sorry I didn't get your humor. Maybe I don't get as much humor as I thought. I didn't get MsC's "Crushed Nut" humor either. I'm not sure what to do about it either...
PBW
UCE
Really Really Experienced
- Joined
- Aug 29, 2002
- Posts
- 498
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The Predator
Not to mention the new "kids" on the bus. Or is that bozos on the block? (oldie-moldie in joke)
Unda
16 years of slavery to one master and, like ye olde engergizer bunny, still going strong.
Lancecastor said:
Not to mention the new "kids" on the bus. Or is that bozos on the block? (oldie-moldie in joke)
Unda
16 years of slavery to one master and, like ye olde engergizer bunny, still going strong.
UCE
Really Really Experienced
- Joined
- Aug 29, 2002
- Posts
- 498
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The Predator
I don't believe her. But then, I had heard enough about certain expereinced someones now gone to ascertain just where and how much and of what nature of experience they actually had. Some of us know how to make up our own mindies, Ebony.
By the way, that was a great post you started on how dominants control and how submissives obey. I haven't responded in it yet because I am still thinking about it...but I will!
Cool Halloween Goth below--one of my favorite goth models, in fact, due to her creativity and spirit--but doesn't she look just a little bit like Cyndi Lauper in this picture? (I hope she's not lurking here!) :
Ebonyfire said:
I don't believe her. But then, I had heard enough about certain expereinced someones now gone to ascertain just where and how much and of what nature of experience they actually had. Some of us know how to make up our own mindies, Ebony.
By the way, that was a great post you started on how dominants control and how submissives obey. I haven't responded in it yet because I am still thinking about it...but I will!
Cool Halloween Goth below--one of my favorite goth models, in fact, due to her creativity and spirit--but doesn't she look just a little bit like Cyndi Lauper in this picture? (I hope she's not lurking here!)
:
UCE
Really Really Experienced
- Joined
- Aug 29, 2002
- Posts
- 498
I agree with Lance that predators come in male and female, dom and sub form, but it's clear to me that they "prey" on different things and that the relative dangers (like reputation, job, and happy family life destroyed on the one worst-case scenario vs. life snuffed on the other) differ. I also have no clue which kind of online predator is prevelant.
I second the notion that submissives are "safer" turning to someone who has no potential for ulterior motives in helping them, like an experienced submissive whose master is monogamous and not "on the make" or after a second slave rather than turning to a dom-mentor type who may be doing his mentor thing just to acquire more subs (this can and does happen quite frequently, particularly in chatrooms, and it's as if the sub moves from the influence of a less sophisticated wolf to that of a more sophisticated on.
Finally, it's my experience that a lot more men get labeled predators than deserve the name. The majority of so-called predators in the bdsm world are simple bunglers, but they bungle so badly that the submissive gets really hurt. When you are hurt or feeling other high emotion you often reason irrationally, and I think that a lot of submissives who have expereinced a bungler imagine that the hurt they are experiencing was intentionally engendered rather than the result of someone just not knowing what they were doing or not understanding who they, themselves actually are (not a dominant). You see what I'm saying? Unintentionally dangerous doms (bunglers) get confused with intentionally dangerous doms who are much rarer in a populance (predators).
Predatory-ness is not just a guy-dom thing. There are female doms on Yahoo whom I consider dangerous to male subs because they insist that the subs become their "money slaves." Yes, this is a form of prostitution, but I don't think that these online money slaves get nearly as much bang for their buck, if you'll excuse the phrase, as they would approaching a standard pro-domme in person. I ran into a group the other day, run by a couple such "professionals" who were preying on an extreme kind of male sub: the kind that likes to fantasize about his own death or taking dangerous risks. They have offered to blackmail the male submissives in their group and kill them for real if they don't keep making financial contributions to them. A part of me wants to say, "well all kinks are OK, if the guys want that it's their problem" but another part of me thinks that these women are just coldly and calculatingly using this particular fetish of the malesubs to financially enrich themselves. The kink doesn't work both ways, in other words, so it's merely a mercantile transaction and not sex that's going on there.
Artful, when you use the word "predator" are you referring to doms physically dangerous to subs, emotionally dangerous to subs, or both?
A predatory chainmail princess:
I second the notion that submissives are "safer" turning to someone who has no potential for ulterior motives in helping them, like an experienced submissive whose master is monogamous and not "on the make" or after a second slave rather than turning to a dom-mentor type who may be doing his mentor thing just to acquire more subs (this can and does happen quite frequently, particularly in chatrooms, and it's as if the sub moves from the influence of a less sophisticated wolf to that of a more sophisticated on.
Finally, it's my experience that a lot more men get labeled predators than deserve the name. The majority of so-called predators in the bdsm world are simple bunglers, but they bungle so badly that the submissive gets really hurt. When you are hurt or feeling other high emotion you often reason irrationally, and I think that a lot of submissives who have expereinced a bungler imagine that the hurt they are experiencing was intentionally engendered rather than the result of someone just not knowing what they were doing or not understanding who they, themselves actually are (not a dominant). You see what I'm saying? Unintentionally dangerous doms (bunglers) get confused with intentionally dangerous doms who are much rarer in a populance (predators).
Predatory-ness is not just a guy-dom thing. There are female doms on Yahoo whom I consider dangerous to male subs because they insist that the subs become their "money slaves." Yes, this is a form of prostitution, but I don't think that these online money slaves get nearly as much bang for their buck, if you'll excuse the phrase, as they would approaching a standard pro-domme in person. I ran into a group the other day, run by a couple such "professionals" who were preying on an extreme kind of male sub: the kind that likes to fantasize about his own death or taking dangerous risks. They have offered to blackmail the male submissives in their group and kill them for real if they don't keep making financial contributions to them. A part of me wants to say, "well all kinks are OK, if the guys want that it's their problem" but another part of me thinks that these women are just coldly and calculatingly using this particular fetish of the malesubs to financially enrich themselves. The kink doesn't work both ways, in other words, so it's merely a mercantile transaction and not sex that's going on there.
Artful, when you use the word "predator" are you referring to doms physically dangerous to subs, emotionally dangerous to subs, or both?
A predatory chainmail princess:
artful
*His eyes as an Eagle's*
- Joined
- Dec 24, 2001
- Posts
- 4,364
UCE
As you probably are aware,...me and Webster's don't get along that well. This is one occasion where Webster and I might agree. To me, as it pertains to my earlier post, a *predator* is one that preys, destroys, intends harm, (emotionally, physically, financially, etc.).
Deceives, manipulates by false, and/or, other means, to target their prey in a cold, calculating manner, without concern or care for the targeted individuals welfare or well being.
As is posted in my original post, a predator may be either male or female, and the dangers are as EXTREME for one gender, as they are for the OTHER. I have no IDEA which is more common as far as gender specifics go,...but it wouldn't surprise me either way.-Thanks for the question-
UCE said:
As you probably are aware,...me and Webster's don't get along that well. This is one occasion where Webster and I might agree. To me, as it pertains to my earlier post, a *predator* is one that preys, destroys, intends harm, (emotionally, physically, financially, etc.).
Deceives, manipulates by false, and/or, other means, to target their prey in a cold, calculating manner, without concern or care for the targeted individuals welfare or well being.
As is posted in my original post, a predator may be either male or female, and the dangers are as EXTREME for one gender, as they are for the OTHER. I have no IDEA which is more common as far as gender specifics go,...but it wouldn't surprise me either way.-Thanks for the question-
Desdemona
Ellie Mae's evil auntie
- Joined
- Dec 11, 2001
- Posts
- 6,584
This is an important topic for us all. Thanks Zip for bumping it. I hadn't read it for a while so I just caught up on the posts. I agree, predators definitely exist in both the Dom/sub and M/F categories. It is a bit harder for new folks to spot... esp if they are new to online interactions. When in doubt, it doesn't hurt to talk to someone and get some feedback or tips on how to figure out what is really going on.
I think the mentoring idea is really good.
I think the mentoring idea is really good.
serijules
just seri
- Joined
- Sep 19, 2002
- Posts
- 1,941
Re: Re: The Predator
Lance's comment stood out to me the most of all the great comments made here so far, because I think this fact is often overlooked, or only looked at in the light of needy submissives being easy victims.
Needy submissives (or needy Dominants for that matter) are rather dangerous in and of themselves, in my opinion. I define a needy predator as someone that place blame on others or encourage people's sympathy in issues without telling the entire truth, or make big issues out of things that are not issues to start with. Aka....dramatics. I have always had a strong dislike for dramatics in any form.
Even something as simple as pretending you have more experience and knowledge than you have any right to claim, can be dangerous. If a Dominant plays with someone that s/he is lead to believe has more experience than s/he really does, and ends up emotionally harming that person, is s/he really to blame?
I recently was on the other end of that example. A Dom lead me to believe that he had much more experience with an implement than he did. I trusted him and ended up very physically (and emotionally) harmed. However, I don't feel that all the blame lies with him, despite his mis-leading nature: I was the one that didn't take the precautions necessary. To badmouth him publically to the people that know him, would be predatory on my part, in my opinion. However, if someone came to me asking my recommendation to play with him, or if I knew someone that intended to play with him, I would certainly pass on the negative experiences I had with him in a nuetral manner so they could form their own judgement.
Ruined reputations because of a sub or even a Dom having their "feelings" hurt and thus spreads rumors, gossip, etc, about that person's abilities....can seriously damage a person's chance to play again.
Another example comes to mind when thinking of mentorship. From what I've seen, often times, needy and predatory subs try to make everyone and anyone their friend, at any cost....even by passing along information in a mentorship form to someone even newer than them, without admitting or acknowledging how little experience they really do have. This to me, is extremely selfish, and can end up being dangerous when that person isn't exposed to the issue from someone with real experience, rather than a real keen sence of self-promotion.
I like to think the BDSM community, or any community, protects their own, but I know many people who have been outted from clubs and groups and even chatrooms and forums because of one partner's distorted point of view or dramatic tantrums. Sometimes it is deserving and necessary for the safety of all involved to take action...but many times it is a simple misunderstanding, or one person's selfish attempt to avoid their own share of blame or inability to realize how rediculous they are acting.
People seem to have a tendacy to believe the first side of a story that they hear, especially when it's a sniffling, upset sub wailing about how her Dominant hurt her so badly, or how someone just "didn't understand" them.
I believe there are always two sides to every story, and when you put them side by side, it's usually fairly obvious who the real 'victim' is. When I see people, in forums especially, publically annoucing private issues, or taking innocent comments far too personally...I usually tend to lean towards sympathy for the other party and lose respect for the limelighter.
This all to me is a predatory action, and while not as dangerous as other forms, still very valid and very much a problem in the BDSM lifestyle. Reputations are fragile things, and people work hard to build them. It's discouraging to see those that are willing to destroy someone else's reputation or status for their own personal glory.
Predators really DO come in all shapes and sizes.
Thanks for bumping the thread zipman, I think there is a lot more than can be said on this subject, from all angles.
Lancecastor said:
Lance's comment stood out to me the most of all the great comments made here so far, because I think this fact is often overlooked, or only looked at in the light of needy submissives being easy victims.
Needy submissives (or needy Dominants for that matter) are rather dangerous in and of themselves, in my opinion. I define a needy predator as someone that place blame on others or encourage people's sympathy in issues without telling the entire truth, or make big issues out of things that are not issues to start with. Aka....dramatics. I have always had a strong dislike for dramatics in any form.
Even something as simple as pretending you have more experience and knowledge than you have any right to claim, can be dangerous. If a Dominant plays with someone that s/he is lead to believe has more experience than s/he really does, and ends up emotionally harming that person, is s/he really to blame?
I recently was on the other end of that example. A Dom lead me to believe that he had much more experience with an implement than he did. I trusted him and ended up very physically (and emotionally) harmed. However, I don't feel that all the blame lies with him, despite his mis-leading nature: I was the one that didn't take the precautions necessary. To badmouth him publically to the people that know him, would be predatory on my part, in my opinion. However, if someone came to me asking my recommendation to play with him, or if I knew someone that intended to play with him, I would certainly pass on the negative experiences I had with him in a nuetral manner so they could form their own judgement.
Ruined reputations because of a sub or even a Dom having their "feelings" hurt and thus spreads rumors, gossip, etc, about that person's abilities....can seriously damage a person's chance to play again.
Another example comes to mind when thinking of mentorship. From what I've seen, often times, needy and predatory subs try to make everyone and anyone their friend, at any cost....even by passing along information in a mentorship form to someone even newer than them, without admitting or acknowledging how little experience they really do have. This to me, is extremely selfish, and can end up being dangerous when that person isn't exposed to the issue from someone with real experience, rather than a real keen sence of self-promotion.
I like to think the BDSM community, or any community, protects their own, but I know many people who have been outted from clubs and groups and even chatrooms and forums because of one partner's distorted point of view or dramatic tantrums. Sometimes it is deserving and necessary for the safety of all involved to take action...but many times it is a simple misunderstanding, or one person's selfish attempt to avoid their own share of blame or inability to realize how rediculous they are acting.
People seem to have a tendacy to believe the first side of a story that they hear, especially when it's a sniffling, upset sub wailing about how her Dominant hurt her so badly, or how someone just "didn't understand" them.
I believe there are always two sides to every story, and when you put them side by side, it's usually fairly obvious who the real 'victim' is. When I see people, in forums especially, publically annoucing private issues, or taking innocent comments far too personally...I usually tend to lean towards sympathy for the other party and lose respect for the limelighter.
This all to me is a predatory action, and while not as dangerous as other forms, still very valid and very much a problem in the BDSM lifestyle. Reputations are fragile things, and people work hard to build them. It's discouraging to see those that are willing to destroy someone else's reputation or status for their own personal glory.
Predators really DO come in all shapes and sizes.
Thanks for bumping the thread zipman, I think there is a lot more than can be said on this subject, from all angles.
Lancecastor
Lit's Most Beloved Poster
- Joined
- May 14, 2002
- Posts
- 54,670
Good timing on the bump, Zip.
MasterKensbeany
Experienced
- Joined
- Aug 21, 2002
- Posts
- 96
A different kind of predator
I've had two Domme friends that have lately been taken in by, what I would say is a new form of online predator. These are people, claiming to be submissives who are making their way around the country (and the world it seems) by playing into the lifestyle. Does that make sense? Well, this is how the pattern seems to go:
1. Contact is made by the sub to the Dom/mes, a friendship is started by asking for advise about their current intolerable relationship.
2. They show the Dom/mes what good submissives they can be while garnering sympathy with tales of abuse and neglect.
3. The lead up...."Master/Mistress is going to kick me out on the streets and I have no where to go." This usually goes on for a couple of weeks before the inevitable.
4. They've been kicked out and are living on the streets/ in their cars...etc. They have no money, they have to home (yet somehow they're still online).
5. The Dom/mes sends traveling money and opens their home to the poor unfortunate.
6. At first everything is good, they play their part but, soon they begin to balk at serving, they mooch and refuse to help out financially, they steal, they lie and create havoc in general...until the Dom/mes reaches the end of their tether and kicks them out.
7. Invariably, they already have someone else lined up to take them in, somewhere else in the world.
I've known two of these people personally and heard about several others from those they have duped. Its a tragedy on so many levels.
Just a heads up for everyone.
Respectfully
beany
I've had two Domme friends that have lately been taken in by, what I would say is a new form of online predator. These are people, claiming to be submissives who are making their way around the country (and the world it seems) by playing into the lifestyle. Does that make sense? Well, this is how the pattern seems to go:
1. Contact is made by the sub to the Dom/mes, a friendship is started by asking for advise about their current intolerable relationship.
2. They show the Dom/mes what good submissives they can be while garnering sympathy with tales of abuse and neglect.
3. The lead up...."Master/Mistress is going to kick me out on the streets and I have no where to go." This usually goes on for a couple of weeks before the inevitable.
4. They've been kicked out and are living on the streets/ in their cars...etc. They have no money, they have to home (yet somehow they're still online).
5. The Dom/mes sends traveling money and opens their home to the poor unfortunate.
6. At first everything is good, they play their part but, soon they begin to balk at serving, they mooch and refuse to help out financially, they steal, they lie and create havoc in general...until the Dom/mes reaches the end of their tether and kicks them out.
7. Invariably, they already have someone else lined up to take them in, somewhere else in the world.
I've known two of these people personally and heard about several others from those they have duped. Its a tragedy on so many levels.
Just a heads up for everyone.
Respectfully
beany
deliciea
Really Experienced
- Joined
- Aug 9, 2002
- Posts
- 129
predators
Have seen the work of many Masters Mistresses and sub to conive there way into the hearts of people and then ripe it out when the truth comes to litgh have been the one to have her world ripped out from under her and sub or no sub she will never be Mastered like such agian
Have seen the work of many Masters Mistresses and sub to conive there way into the hearts of people and then ripe it out when the truth comes to litgh have been the one to have her world ripped out from under her and sub or no sub she will never be Mastered like such agian
skye in silk
Literotica Guru
- Joined
- Jul 7, 2002
- Posts
- 971
Wonderful discussion by all. and as a newbie i am drawing all the information in and taking notes. Everyone has posted a different description of a predator, some have even referred to the Monster Thread regarding predators. Could people give some suggestions on how to recognize a predator? or instead of rehasing what has already been said, post a place that i may find the information i seek?
Many Thanks,
Skye
Many Thanks,
Skye
Last edited:
artful
*His eyes as an Eagle's*
- Joined
- Dec 24, 2001
- Posts
- 4,364
silk
A predator's identifying signature is a "Liar". That being said,...one needs to understand, their signature is always written with invisible ink.
You sometimes need to don special glasses to read the writing, but often, one can read the writing, and because of misplaced hope, STILL become a *victim*.
skye in silk said:
A predator's identifying signature is a "Liar". That being said,...one needs to understand, their signature is always written with invisible ink.
You sometimes need to don special glasses to read the writing, but often, one can read the writing, and because of misplaced hope, STILL become a *victim*.
skye in silk said:
There are many ways, and I'm sure you will probably hear most of them. Artful gave one indication. Predators are, for the most part liars of some form.
The easiest way to recognize a predator is with the use of time. A predator will often not want a "relationship" to continue for any length of time without the sub committing in some way. Therefore, it is important for a sub to hold back, look, listen, ask questions. Time is a predator's worst enemy. Unfortunately, many subs want a relationship now, and aren't willing to wait.
This can also be different if you are skin to skin or online. Skin to skin is easier - you can watch how the person reacts to people and situations around them. Online is much more difficult - people can be whoever they want to be, and sound very convincing. Again, very few predators will be able to continue their ruse for an extended period of time. As well, if a predator has to wait, they will move on quickly to a place where the pickings are easier.
What do I mean by time? It depends on the individuals, and what they feel comfortable with. For me personally, I don't feel comfortable to play with some one for at least 2 to 3 months. Some people are less, some are more. You have to develop your instincts, and be able to read between the lines.
As far as online relationships go, well that can be a crap shoot. Some people win really big, and go on to have wonderful relationships. Most end up hurt or wounded. Again, time is a computer predator's enemy. Jumping in too quickly with too much trust is playing into his hands. This isn't true for everyone, but just what I have found a good rule of thumb to live by. (For instance, I have one long distance internet "infatuation" that I would dearly love to spend some time with - and I've known him online and off for well over a year. But I do trust him.)
I'm sure others will have much more to say on this than I do....
Re: silk
My sentiments exactly. Not only are liars annoying and disheartening, but they are ultimately so uninteresting. They take up time and energy.LITerally suck the fun out of this place.
artful said:A predator's identifying signature is a "Liar". That being said,...one needs to understand, their signature is always written with invisible ink.
You sometimes need to don special glasses to read the writing, but often, one can read the writing, and because of misplaced hope, STILL become a *victim*.
My sentiments exactly. Not only are liars annoying and disheartening, but they are ultimately so uninteresting. They take up time and energy.LITerally suck the fun out of this place.
Desdemona
Ellie Mae's evil auntie
- Joined
- Dec 11, 2001
- Posts
- 6,584
dragonhearted
Not pussy-footin' around!
- Joined
- Oct 5, 2002
- Posts
- 5,008
A Classic.........
.........never goes out of style
Great thread artful...and I do agree!
.........never goes out of style
Great thread artful...and I do agree!
